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Comments
~alpha
It probably cost manufacturer that much to buy the equipment, who is going to pay to install it, and design the new brake system around it? Even if the option costs $500 are you willing to pay for it? This will bring the LX sticker close to $16,000.
Please, Honda,. Pretty please.
Turboshadow
I can't see this one coming stateside, not that it would matter to me much as I would never get something that looked like that. Door handles, wheels and exhaust ar the only things that are appealing.
I really just wat to see the dang sedan.
Have called all the local Honda shops - they don't sell it, and when I looked it up on net, appear that they only sell it in Europe, or otherwise outside the states. One dealer suggested that the car I saw was en route to a magazine/reviewer/car show, etc...
Is it possible to buy the 5 door hatchback in US?
More of a small van, really. But it fits the profile.
As far as I am concerned it is closer to a Suburban than it is to a Civic. Unfortunately Honda and others have abandoned wagons and hatches because more people agree with varmint. The feeling seems to be that a vehicle has to be ponderous and inefficient to have utility.
The SUV acronym is truely genius as it gave features to a class of vehicles that was neither sporty or utilitarian (for their size and weight). Fortunately the tide is turning and there are more wagons coming out. Honda will just take a while - they are slow to adapt. VW had fuel injection in all their vehicles 10 years before Honda.
Hybrids
Cross-overs
Magic seat
The in-bed trunk
The CVCC
SH-AWD
120 hp/liter
Nav systems
Yeah... Honda is way behind.
As for the Element, I think it's simply a matter of people recognizing what they actually do with their vehicles. What good is a wagon with nimble handling when you creep along in traffic all the time.
With a vehicle like the Element, xB, or PT Cruiser, you can enjoy the car for its trick features, styling, or functionality. And you can see where you're going.
Both Element and CR-V are based on the Civic. They both use the same 2.4 liter found in Accord, and offer AWD.
As much as I would like a 5 door hatch, if I were faced with buying a $20,000 Civic 5 door, or $20,000 Element, I would probably go for the Element. Although, I did not like the way it drove, dollar for dollar, Element, offers more.
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Ugh. Element would offer poorer performance, worse mileage and worse handling than a Civic 5 door. I'd take the 5 door every time. I like to stop, go, and turn too much to spend money on high, tippy vehicles. been there, done that, I'll never do it again.
Plus, and this is just my opinion, the Element is the ugliest thing on the road since the Aztek is gone. xB give it a good run for the money in the ugly department.
Turboshadow
Plastic can be painted
Or both
Turboshadow
If Honda offered a decently priced 5-door Civic, I would be first in line to get one. Right now, Honda offers nothing I'm interested in. I've felt this way (sadly) since 1998, when I traded in my beloved Si. I owned Civics from 86-98, and if they offered something I liked, I'd get it.
But they don't.
Turboshadow
The element on the other hand uses 50% more fuel, has worse handling ride etc. Is it worth the trade? Just today they were talking about gas near $3.oo per gallon in the not too distant future.
~alpha
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Hmmm...I don't know. Must have been a bunch of them. I knew plenty of people back then who had Civic Sis, Civic Wagons, (even knew of a couple of AWDs, which were kinda silly in south Georgia, IMO), and a tons of CRX Sis, which was another great small hatch.
The late eighties was sorta the heyday of the hatch, though. (sniff)
Turboshadow
First year, 2002, Honda imported 15,000 Si's, they did not sell well. 2003, 2004, 2005 were all close 7,500-8,000/year.
By the way, Si i snot overpriced if you haggle at the right time. I got my 2002 Si in January of 2003 with 8 miles on the odo for $14,500 and 1.9% APR. I actually came in to test drive the Element, but the fact that 5 spd was not available and the one I drove felt top heavy drove me away from it. The sales man suggested I drive the Si. I did and fell in love. I was actually cross shopping Matrix/Vibe and Element, and ended up with Civic Si, Matrix Coupe as I call it. If you put Si and Matrix side by side, they are very similar except the 2 doors missing from the Civic. But, the price was right on the Civic.
Now that Honda finally has the 5 spd Element with painted panels from factory, I have been looking at it again. It is still top heavy, but I guess I can slow down a bit, maybe. Maybe not, and just get a TSX.
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I agree completely with that statement.
However...
When it first came out, MSRP was around 20K and dealers were putting 3K ADM on them. I think this PO'd a number of buyers (I was in the market) who decided they would NEVER buy one after that. I think that hurt Si sales more than anything.
I think the ADM practice has created a backlash against a number of new cars.
Turboshadow
If I were to buy a $25K car, I would look into TSX or IS300.
Honda dealers are not as bad as some Ford, and GM dealers.
Ford Thunderbird had a $10K ADM (in one case there was a $20K ADM), and now it is being discontinued for not selling.
Chevy SSR had a $6000 ADM.
Ford Thunderbird had a $10K ADM (in one case there was a $20K ADM), and now it is being discontinued for not selling.
Chevy SSR had a $6000 ADM.
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Those were the two in particular that I was thinking about. I believe there is a backlash happening in such practices.
You're right about the Type R Civic as well. If you really, truly wanted one, its easy to build your own. In retrospect, I should have done something similar when the engine started going in my old Si. Hindsight....
Turboshadow
Looks great, eh?
~allcarsrcool
Three good reasons to buy a Civic over the Yaris.
Civic is much roomier.
Civic gets better mileage on the highway. Much better city & highway if you buy the hybrid.
And the Yaris is UGLY.....
You should really go drive the Civic before you buy the Yaris. It is an entry level vehicle that may not last till you are done making the payments. If you are paying cash no big deal.
PS
Welcome to the forum!!!
how did u know i was new to the forum?
And, with upcoming space in Ohio where Civics were made (once the IN plant comes online), what will be built there?
Chris from MI who LOVES his 06 LX Civic and his wife's 06 Subie Forester
why hasn't honda brought this car back?
I have a friend who thinks there is some conspiracy by big oil as to the reason Honda killed the high milege CRX.
any thoughts?
This coincided with an explosion in consumer buying power during the 1990s, which created a demand for more luxury features (meaning more weight), even on traditional economy cars. Honda Civics and Ford Escorts suddenly offered power windows, power seats, cruise control, etc.
Now cars weigh 50% more than they used to, and get worse fuel economy as a result. But on the bright side, they are safer, and more comfortable to drive.
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The owner claims to get 60 mpg!
You're telling me that this 1.3 litre engine couldn't get say 40 mpg with today's safety standards? There have been trade offs with using Aluminum in the frame, so I'm not sure I buy your argument that it's merely safety standards killing us in fuel effeciency. I mean, how much does an airbag weigh? or a side beam in the door? It all doesn't add up to me.
An electric window doesn't weigh much more than one you have to manually crank.
It doesn't take carbon fibre to reduce the weight of a vehicle that was built in the 80's.
37/47 is certainly good, but as you said, that was from a 1.3 litre engine propelling a 1700 lb. car. Today's Honda Civic has a 1.8 litre engine propelling a 2600 lb. car. It gets 26/34 mpg, which is not bad for 50% more engine displacement and 50% more weight.
So you're correct, it's not just safety equipment weight, it's also bigger engines contributing to lower fuel economy.
and I also wonder how today's civic would perform with a 1.3 ltre engine?
17 years have gone by and all I've seen is a race for greater horsepower.
- yes cars are safer and more plush
Honda and Toyota have always offered a great 4 cyl option with the option of upgrading to the ample if not excessive 6 cyl because everyone wanted to go 0-60 in under 10 seconds. Now I wonder if they might offer the lower powered higher fuel economy model?
actually the EPA estimates were 41 city and 50 hwy
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/5263.shtml
So, what's your guess as to why Honda doesn''t replicate this car with an airbag, abs and side impact beams?
It would be alot more appealing to me over the Smart car.
I can answer that. It performs a little slow, but okay.
I have a Civic Hybrid, which uses a 1.3 litre gasoline engine along with a 20 hp electric motor. The engine shuts off automatically when the car stops, and the hybrid battery keeps the electric system going while the engine is off.
On a hot summer day, waiting at a railroad crossing for a train to pass, the A/C can run down that battery in about 4 minutes. When that happens, the electric motor assist ceases, and the car is powered only by the 1.3 litre engine until the battery recharges itself.
It runs fine in that condition, but it's a bit slow -- kind of like a compact car from the early 80s.
Those were the old EPA numbers. The revised ones are 37/47. The fueleconomy.gov link you provided actually lists the '89 CRX HF twice -- once with the old ratings, and once with the new ones.
The old numbers were based on a maximum speed of 55 mph, a maximum rate of acceleration of 3 mph per second, and no air conditioning use, or stop-and-go traffic. That same testing method gave the Toyota Prius numbers of 51 city and 60 hwy until this year. Now the Prius and every other car gets a "real world" test. Consequently, all EPA numbers have dropped, including the Prius to 48/45.
"why Honda doesn''t replicate this car with an airbag, abs and side impact beams?"
The Honda Insight two-seater hybrid was nearly identical to the old CRX. They discontinued that model a few years ago in favor of the Civic Hybrid.
However, they'll release the new CRZ either next year or in 2010. It's supposed to replicate the looks and efficiency of the Insight, but offer more day-to-day practicality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-Z
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