Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

skeptic3 · October 2003

I have an offer for a 2004 MM AWD w/ DVD, aux. climate ctrl and roof rails from a DC metro area dealer.

Edmunds TMV is 33,809 after rebate.

Dealer has offered 33,865 after rebate.

How close does Edmunds get on these TMV quotes?

Would 33K even be a good counteroffer if the dealer takes it or is it still too high?

tidester · October 2003

You can read about how edmunds.com's TMV works here.

tidester, host

fx4 · October 2003

When my wife and I looked at 2003 MM before buying the 2003 Explorer, 4wd, V-8, we were puzzled to find that the base model MM has the 245/70R/16 Goodyear Eagle LS performance
type tires. The Eagle LS only has a 350 tread wear rating and many demos approaching the 5,000 miles turn in level were showing significant wear. Sinking feeling that quick tire wear would be a major problem with the Eagle LS?

The higher end MM models come with BFG Rugged Trail T/A in 245/65R/17. Same goes for the E/B and Limited Explorer models. The BFG selection, except for maybe the 17" size itself, seems like an ill tire selectiion for the higher priced luxury models. Seems like the luxury models would have the performance tires. Any insights?

The Explorers we drove with the BFG tires seemed to handle slightly better than the base XLT models with the Michelin 235/70R/16 Cross Terrain. Again probably solely due to the 17" wheels and tires.

Any experience with the above tires on these models?

P.s. We liked the MM better and she wanted to try the AWD, but could not find much selection in 3rd seat delete Mountaineer models.

gpz1 · October 2003

The Luxury or base Aviator does not have the Heated / cooled seats. Just the Premium model does.

mountainowner · October 2003

My Mountaineer had the Goodyears and they lasted 45,000 miles...they would have lasted longer if they were rotated more. Replaced them with the Cross Terrains, the treadware rating on the Cross Terrains is 700 vs 350 on the Goodyears. The Michelin web page gives comparisons of their tire in different conditions (snow, wet, dry, etc). IMO the Michelins are a better riding tire..

daryll40 · October 2003

My brother is in the market for a new SUV. He wants an OEM-style satellite radio. It is my understanding that the '04 Explorer/MM has a factory OEM radio head unit where the dealer can install the SIRIUS radio kit so that it will work as an integrated system. I cannot get confirmation that this is true for ALL '04 Explorer/MM vehicles or does it need to be special ordered this way or is it something that will not come until later in the model-year run?

Also, he wants a "high-end" version which will probably put him on a Lincoln-Mercury lot as most of the MMs are "higher-end" than the most common XLT Explorer..although we fully understand that most dealers have at least a few Eddie Bauer and Limited Explorers too. Anyway, he want's it WITHOUT the 3rd row seating. At one point you could not get MM without the 3rd row. Somewhere I seem to recall hearing that for '04 you could order it with a 3rd row DELETE option.
Yes? No?

Info would be appreciated since, unfortunately, the dealers either don't know the truth about these two items (we've been there and are getting different stories at different dealerships) or purposely aren't telling because they suspect the answers won't sell what's on their lot today.

fx4 · October 2003

Yes for the third row seat delete for 2003 and 2004 MM. Look on Forddealerships.com,
F/L/M in Tocccoa, GA 30577 for an example of a 2004 Mountaineer with third row delete. Assuming it has not sold since I did a bookmark a couple of weeks ago. (Should also be able to find it through www.mercuryvehicles.com using the above zip)

My wife and I drove several 2003 Mountaineers with third row delete in the late summer of 2003.

stever · October 2003

Guess who won in SUV Under $35,000 category :-)

Edmunds.com Announces Editors' Most Wanted Awards for 2004 Model Year (Yahoo news)

Steve, Host

nvbanker · October 2003

and I also noticed that very, very few domestics got a placement in the most wanted list.

ANT14 · October 2003

Please, I haven't gotten over the F-150 not have placed in the Pick-Up lists, not even honorable mention ! Makes me wonder if the car rags are now taking over Edmunds.com

And what about the Passat making the family sedan round? They should keep one for longer than warranty period so they experience are ultimately unreliable they really are. Oh well...

stever · October 2003

I guess y'all will have to wait to vote for the Consumer Most Wanted for 2004 award.

"Give us your feedback about our Editors' Most Wanted picks.
E-mail: editor@edmunds.com"

Steve, Host

nvbanker · October 2003

You're kidding, right? You really want our feedback? Just remember, you asked for it

stever · October 2003

lol, that's an entirely different department than us hosts. Blast away. Just don't mention my name :-)

Seriously, that was a cut and paste from the bottom of the Most Wanted article. Don't be surprised to see your missives quoted in the Letters section in a month or two.

Steve, Host

wifemm · October 2003

I bought a used 2002 AWD MM with 17Kmiles for my wife, and overall we're really happy with it. The ride is great, roomy and getting 15.5mpg, all city driving.

The OEM Goodyear tires definitely will not last past 30Kmiles, they're already showing significant wear.

Also, the aluminium accent on the steering wheel is fading out, especially the bottom left spoke. We took it to the dealership since it's still under warranty, they replaced it with a new style, leather all around. This is the standard since 2003 cause Ford has too many problems with the aluminium accent. So, all of you who have warranty left better go get it change asap.

daryll40 · October 2003

I still cannot find a dealer or anyone affiliated with Ford that knows anything about the press release, below. My brother wants to buy/order an '04 Explorer an integrated SIRIUS radio, yet no one knows anything. This is how Ford shoots itself in the foot. The GM competition has the XM in the vehicles, on the lot, ready to go.

SIRIUS Satellite Radio Now Available on Select Ford, Lincoln and Mercury Vehicles
Thursday September 18, 4:33 pm ET
* SIRIUS satellite radio retails for $329 plus installation and tax on ten 2004 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles. * Ford Motor Company has future plans to offer SIRIUS to its other brands.

DEARBORN, Mich. and NEW YORK, Sept. 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F - News

daryll40 · October 2003

I can see that the OEM tires on my '03 Mountaineer won't last beyond 30,000 miles. They are BF GOODRICH Rugged something-or-other. What do you folks recommend as replacements. These tires can be had for about $100 per plus taxes and mounting. The Michelin Cross-Terrain, the choice OEM tire on many '04 new Ford and GM SUVs, costs about 50% more. Will I get 50% more treadlife? And if it's ONLY 50% more, then I am better off getting new Goodrichs every 30K I guess?

Any other suggestions???

jrc346 · October 2003

I found this press release at Ford.Com

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=15369

Looks like you are right though. It say's specifically, "dealler installed option." That may or may not be a big deal. It could be installed before delivery, and would be warranteed for 3years/36,000 miles.

daryll40 · October 2003

Yes, it does say dealer-installed option. To me that means that SOMETHING has to be SPECIFIC FROM THE FACTORY to ACCEPT that dealer installed option. In other words, it's not just the dealer installing the same thing that Circuit City would install in ANY car. And they list the models that CAN accept this dealer-installed option...meaning that there is something differentiating them from the models that CANNOT accept it. What is galling (but typical for Ford) is that it's November and the dealers have no clue about it yet it's been the media for us consumers for 2 months.

gregb5 · October 2003

On your tire question: check into the Bridgestone Dueler A/T REVO. You can research at tirerack.com. People rate them as THE BEST tire in its category.

daryll40 · October 2003

I'll look at Bridgestone, but the Bridgestone-Firestone thing spooks me.

wifemm · October 2003

I see that some of you are also experiencing wind noise from the passenger side. I notice the noise on the highway going at about 60+, then I realized the front passenger door is out of alignment. The door sticks out a little, took it to the dealership and they adjusted the catch, the door now close flush and the noise is gone.

On the tire choice question I would go with the Michelin Cross-Terrains, I saw them on sale @ walmart last month for $125 which is not a bad price for 60Kmiles tires.

nvbanker · October 2003

We have 30,000 miles on our 02 Mountaineer, and the Goodyear tires still look like brand new! What's up with that?

pulleydog · October 2003

"We have 30,000 miles on our 02 Mountaineer, and the Goodyear tires still look like brand new! What's up with that?"

You sound disappointed. If it will make you feel better, I'll trade you my Goodyears, also with 30K miles, that I worry won't make it until the Spring. As a bonus, I'll also swap the alloy wheels with the mysterious looking scratches on them!! ;-)

g_husky · October 2003

Re: tire comments, my XLT Explorer w/ Sport pkg has the 245/65R/17" tire w/ maybe 15K miles on. No signs of wear at all. I am spirited driver and very picky about tires. I can say after many new vehicle purchases, this is the first time I will replace the OEM tires with the same exact tire when they do wear out. Very quiet running, low rolling resistance, great ride and handling. I took a sharp 2" screw in one of the tires and it did not even penetrate the belts (no air leak). My bet would be that Ford learned from the Firestone fiasco not to be loyal to any one manufacturer, and uses these as the tire on the premium-priced vehicles since it stacked up better than the Michelin & Goodyears. Its a winner all around!

virgiesmom · November 2003

I now have same problem as you do Steve.....was there any solution?
prior message******************

#1313 of 1643 8 cyc stall/surge on braking by dvdsteve Mar 15, 2003 (4:02 pm)
Greetings from New Jersey...
I have an '03 Mountaineer Premier with the 8 cycinder engine. 11,500 miles in 4 1/2 months.
At least twice a day, and only when I am braking to a stop, at the moment I stop, my engine surges high to low to high to low, or, it stalls.
3 trips to my dealer and of course, it never happens when they test drive it, nor do they find anything when they put it on their computer.
Any thoughts on this???
Thank you for any responses...
Steve

4apexs2 · November 2003

Ordered an '04 EB - Sirius radio is shown as dealer installed option in '04 brochure. Was first told it was $500 - salesman got it to $400. Picking it up in a month. Have XM now in a Camry (installed by CCity).

daryll40 · November 2003

but it's not clear that ALL '04 Explorers have "SAT READY" radios. Somone at FLATRATETECH.COM (a Ford bulletin board) says you have to be sure to order it with a special SAT READY radio, THEN have the dealer unit installed to that.

daryll40 · November 2003

the BF Goodrich Rugged Trail T/A tires. I measured the spare tire that is still new and it has 13/32nds of tread. My four "somewhat worn" tires have 8/32nds left at 16500 miles. Which means that the tires will last to about 30,000-33,000 miles or so when it will be around 3/32nds and be time for new tires. The Michelin tires that I bot at NTB for my '99 Explorer (courtesy of Ford) now have 50,000 miles on them and are good for about another 5000 miles or so.

So is the Michelin worth 50% more? It's probably a wash. BF Goodrich is $110 at Sams Club and Michelin Cross-Terrain is $160. Costs 50% more and lasts about 50% longer. The difference is that there is less hassle and less changeover (mounting, balancing). So maybe the Michelin IS worth it.

nvbanker · November 2003

Not disappointed at all. I expected it. Just confused at the other complaints, that's all.

tjf2000 · November 2003

I have 30k on my 2003 MM Premier since February. I have the BF Goodrich tires and they are showing now signs on wear. I believe they are the 245/65/17 tires. I do run these tires at 35lbs on all four corners, I think the sticker on the gas door states 30 lbs front 35 lbs rear... that was to mushy for me. Low tire pressure can result in tire wear.

4apexs2 · November 2003

So, that would explain the $400 - I didn't factory order the EB, so we will see. Thanks for the info. I'll let you when we pick it up ..........

r5murphy · November 2003

Are there any major differences with these 2 models? Also, is there any size difference between the XLS and the XLT.
Thanks...

swschrad · November 2003

so there will be a length increase of something just over two feet between 'em.

jrc346 · November 2003

If you click on the "New Cars" tab at the top of the page here, proceed to click on "Ford", then select "Explorer," you should be able to find all of the answers to your questions regarding the differences between the XLS and XLT. The photos that you will see once you get to that page will show you an XLT, and from what I know, I believe that both the XLT and XLS are 4-door.
The big difference between the two, is mainly what options you can get. For instance with the XLT, you can upgrade your wheels, stereo, interior (to leather if you wish), and get the V8 just to name a few. I hope that this will help you at least a little :-) Goodluck!

fx4 · November 2003

We have a new 2003, V-8, 4wd, t/tow package, XLT, air curtains, 3800 miles. In the early going the V-8's mileage is very suspect, gas tank too small. With miles, the mileage is slowly getting better. 15-16 mpg day in day out, 20 on the hwy.

Michelin 235/70R/16 Cross-Terrain tires have a treadwear rating of 420 or so versus 700 for regular Michelin Tire Store Michelins. Anyone know the difference? Typical Ford cheapo
version? Hnadling not that good witht he 235/70R/16 size. Any suggestions such as a tire in the 65 series? Is any 65 series size suitable? Same height? Michelin OEMs seem to be wearing down fast.

No mechanical problems at all in first 3,800 miles.

swschrad · November 2003

and that is alleged to be the mileage you should get on that pair of tires.

ford may have spec'ed a softer or tackier rubber compound, or traction requirements that translate to the same thing, for their OEM tires, and that would account for the difference.

if you tell the Michelin-franchise tire counter guy you want the tires for a 2003 explorer, they might indeed find their replacement tire is built more like the OEM tire than your look at what may be a general replacement.

capriracer · November 2003

The most likely reason for the difference in treadwear ratings is rolling resistance.

Vehicle manufacturers have to meet CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirements set by the US government. One of the ways to help meet these requirements is to use low rolling resistance tires, and one of the ways to get low rolling resistance in tires is to sacrifice treadwear (Another way is traction and that's just not a good option).

Fuel economy is rarely an issue in the aftermarket, but treadwear is - big time! - so most aftermarket tires will have higher treadwear ratings than their OEM counterparts. The notable exception to this is high performance tires where traction is the issue in the aftermarket, and treadwear is a bit of an issue in the OEM market.

Hope this helps.

nvbanker · November 2003

You're kidding right? I've never seen a number remotely that high, so either I need to get out more, or I just love cheap tires too. 420 is a good tire. There are lots of OEM tires out there with 260 and 320 numbers on them. I don't think Ford is cheaping out on the tires anymore after the Firestone mess. They can't afford to, and if you got Michelins, you don't have crap for tires.

mountainowner · November 2003

I just purchased a set of Michelin Cross Terrains and the wear rating IS 700! I agree with you, I have never seen a rating that high...

nvbanker · November 2003

well, the tread will way outlive the carcass then.......

1sttimevolvo1 · December 2003

I had as a company truck, a `98 Ford F150 with Firestone tires. I don't recall what the tread wear rating was, but I didn't have to replace those tires until about 89,500 miles. They were original equipment and still had about 1/4-inch of tread on them. We only replaced them at 89,500 miles because a 2-inch wide by 6-inch long strip of tread came off the left rear tire. They were excellent tires!

nvbanker · December 2003

Yes, if the tread doesn't come off, Firestones wear forever.....

sgtrockb · December 2003

I just traded my 02 Explorer XLS 4x4 for an 03 MM V6 AWD Luxury Package. First, the fuel difference: They both had the v6 engine, but my Explorer got 18 city and almost 20 highway, and the Mountaineer is getting 15ish city and 18ish on the highway.

The noise difference is dramatic. The cheapo XLS interior was much quieter than the MM interior. It seems that there's a wind noise in the MM that I can't quite track down. From the driver's seat it sounds like its coming from the passenger side. My wife, however, says it's coming from the middle. I don't have a sunroof.

I also have the Goodrich tires on the car and they are way noisier than the OE Explorer tires.

So, what problems can I look for in the MM? And how do I fix this wind noise, or is that something that we all live with?

Note to all you Explorer buyers. I had the 02 XLS 4x4 for a year. Loved it. The only problems were a bad wheel sensor which caused the ABS light to come on, and the cruise control would go out or not function from time to time. Could never get it to do that at the dealership though. Gas mileage was great. I never thought I'd own one, but I wouldn't rule out another.

jrc346 · December 2003

I would say the main reason for the reduction in gas mileage from the Explorer to the Moutaineer is that the Mountaineer you have is AWD, and is on all of the time. Where the 4x4 of your previous Explorer was on only when you turned it on, or if A4WD was selected and wheel slippage was detected. As for wind noise, I would take it back to the dealer and see what they can do. It may be an improperly sealed windshield, or door seals that aren't sealing completely. Goodluck and enjoy your new truck!

BTW, I think Ford has done a commendable job working out all of the new Explorers/Mountaineers first year bugs. So your 03 should be even better than your 02 in terms of mechanical reliability!

scottva22 · December 2003

I am looking to either purchase an Eddie Bauer Explorer or the MM luxury. Leaning towards Mercury because of AWD. Ford's web site says that Explorers have the option of AWD v. 4WD, but the dealers in the Wash DC area do not stock them. I have a '96 XLT with AWD and it drives like a tank in the snow. Any comments on Explorer v. MM and AWD v. 4WD would be appreciated. 0% financing on both.

explorerx4 · December 2003

the 4wd system has awd (4x4 auto) and 4wd (hi and low range). best of both worlds. the 4x4 auto mode doesn't slip much before engaging. i think the default mode is mostly rwd, until slippage is detected.

brast69 · December 2003

I have owned an 03 MM Premier for about 9 mnths and had a 98 MM prior to this. I feel my family of 3 + (one on the way)is safer in the AWD. My wife primarilary drives the trucks (98 and now the 03). She doesnt want to have to think about how to change to 4 wheel drive high/low etc. She wants to get in and drive, thats it. The AWD is perfect for her and me as well. I took the 03 on the beach this summer and had no problems what so ever. The 98 was a monster in the snow, havent had the 03 in the snow yet but I am sure it will be even better. Sometimes you cant see dangerous road conditions and its nice to know that you are running AWD all the time...Hope this helped in your decision between the MM and the Exploder!

ANT14 · December 2003

There's a bit more involved as to the mechanisms of AWD and 4WD. It's paramount to know how each system works since they all are designed differently. Find out if the AWD system has a closed or open differential. That itself will make the difference between "give" and "correcting" upon the differential.

I won't mention which vehicles/brands, but there's a few that are supposedly AWD and are the first to get stuck in snow. I've been able to defeat some AWD systems (on closed testing facilities) and hae an 4WD system. There should be a programmed ratio for each differential to correct a slip. The easily defeatable AWD systems are those that run ALL wheels, at the same time while 1, 2 or 3 wheels spin endlessly seeking traction, chances are the 4th won't recoupe, therefore you'll see them hit a snow drift or curb.

The better AWD systems are those that send power to the wheels that grip, while the spinning one's regain traction, in whatever methods need be (some use brake intervention to do so, and these are the more advanced versions).

One example, is the Jaguar X-type sedan, which is AWD, but uses a rear biased AWd system, directing around 60% of it's power towards the rear wheel, while the front receive the remaining power. On dicey situations the system is able to compensate for lost traction on one wheel, but becomes a bit riskier when more than 2 lose traction on the same axle.

Most car-based SUV's such as Escape/VUE/Highlander/Pilot, will use an AWD systems that's quite easy and simple. Since it's FWD, their weight over the front wheels, allow them to use a simpler version, BUT many times in AWD optional form, might not work as well on black ice for example.

In those simple systems, they are FWD biased, and will only switch to AWD by transfering their traction to the rear wheels when front slippage is detected. Chances are if the front wheels are slipping (considering the weight overthem) chances are the rear wheels MIGHT help, but don't expect a miracle. And all this needs ot be accomplished by a very active and fast computer programming management system to switch the hydraulics for the rear wheels to compensate.

On the other field we have 4WD, that allows for more choices based on driver input. From 4WDlow, to 4wdAuto, or 2WD. These can help few economy, but most times are a bit more complex over AWD, and require a bit more mechanicals. Ford's Control Trac by far is one of the better 4WD systems on vehicles. Not only because of it's grip and ability, but it's durability as well.

Not stating which is better over AWD/4WD, just stating each system is vastly different from manufacturer to manufacturer, finding out which system and how it works, is what will make the difference. Have peace of mind that either of Ford's system is ahead of the competition.

And even better, are vehicles that incorporate an Anti-Skid Stability System onto their AWD/4WD. This can make good driver's, better. But doesn't make up for the bad one's that feel invisible either.

scottva22 · December 2003

Thanks all for responding to my question.

brast69: Your situation sounds very similar to mine. The new Exp. or MM will be my wife's daily driver, we have one child and another on the way. I, too, just want her to get in and drive and not think about whether or not the 4WD is engaged, so I'm leaning towards the MM. Glad to know the AWD does well at the beach as that is the only "off-roading" I would do as well. If I did a lot of off-roading and needed the 4WD low, I would either get the NBX or 4runner or Jeep for that matter.

I test drove the Explorer last weekend, my first time feeling the new suspension. Great improvement over my '96. Haven't seen the inside of the MM yet, but have read it's nice as well.

Still curious why I can't find an XLT with AWD, sales guy said it has to be special ordered from the factory? Then again, I want the heated seats/mirrors, upgraded stereo, so I'm back to the MM.

scottva22 · December 2003

Just found this from a review of the '02 MM right here on edmunds.com:

"Take our 2002 Mercury Mountaineer test vehicle, for example. Why should someone buy this SUV over a Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer or Limited? For the exclusive all-wheel-drive system? That Control Trac automatic four-wheel-drive setup on the Explorer is a slick piece of work, transferring power when the wheels slip so quickly that the driver barely even feels the system working its magic. So the Mountaineer's AWD, which distributes engine torque in a 35 percent front/65 percent rear split under normal conditions, is no reason to choose the Merc over the Ford.

Basically, it comes down to styling. Do you like the way the Mountaineer looks better than the Explorer? Then buy it. That AWD system isn't going to kill your fuel mileage; during two tanks drained on the mean streets of Detroit, we averaged 16.5 mpg with our V8 test truck, and that was with a reasonably heavy foot on the throttle."

Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles