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Also, does anyone out there have any lease deals to report. I got a quote on a 36 month, 15,000 mile per year lease on the mountaineer for $529 per month with $1,000 down. The mountaineer had the eight, with a sun roof, the luxury and convienence packages, the audiophile sound system and side curtain airbags. This sounded good for a first quote from the dealer.
Enough bad-mouthing about the Explorer. Where does it end? Some of us have requirements which the Benz and Acura won't meet, such as towing capacity. We're in the market for a vehicle which will serve as a daily driver, an occasional "people-hauler", and tow my wife's hoss trailer (5000+ lbs). My research brought me to the Explorer, the Durango, and the Jeep. I've since discovered the GM versions, but they lack the 3rd seat. The Expedition and Burb are out of the question, as she doesn't want something that large. So here we are in the market for a mid-sized SUV (the Aerostar isn't there any longer, and I won't consider the Astro or Safari due to relibility problems), and the Explorer seems to fullfill all of our needs. And to top it all off, I drive a 97 F-150 which up to this point has been perfect. I guess I'm sick of seeing you compare an Explorer to the Benz. The Explorer we have on order is completely different from a Benz, and shouldn't even be compared due to the difference in planned usage. A 2002 with a V-8, tow package, 3rd seat, and side airbags, at $28K.
You need to go to the Mercedes or Acura websites and tout their strengths. Quite frankly, I'm sick of seeing your unreasonble comparisons.
I am surprised that the Mercedes talk lasted as long as it did. I think too many people perceive that Mercedes must be high quality due to its price. This is not the case. I know too many people that have had problems with those "fine" German automobiles. My boss filed a lawsuit (and won) against Mercedes for the lemon he got stuck with. A business associate complains about outrageous maintenance costs ($39.00 for 1 wiper blade or $25.00 for an oil filter or $115.00 for an analog cell phone battery all which were only avail. at the dealer.) Another friend has to keep getting new rotors every time his brakes get replaced ($1,000 each time). My cousin purchased and unloaded a leaky Mercedes convertible. My point is that every make has its problems and you might just hear more about Explorer's just based on the number of those vehicles out there.
I m waiting for this to order ...Thanks
Eweygrin. If you want to see what I'm talking about in terms of build quality, just look at the interior on both of them. Feel the switchgear, slam the doors..you'll see what I mean
We liked the looks of the Mountaineer (interior and exterior) very much. We felt the ride was good for a truck, and the power was adequate. Ultimately, we chose the Rendezvous because we felt the ride (smooth and quiet) was superior, reliability would be better, and dollar for dollar, the standard feature content of the Rendezvous (side air bags, leather seats, climate control, driver computer, etc.) was more generous.
We do agree that the Mountaineer is somewhat more physically attractive than the Rendezvous, and it is probably a superior "truck" (off-road and towing prowess). However, we were looking for less a truck and more an all-weather station wagon...for us, the Rendezvous fit our lifestyle better.
I think that you really can't go wrong with either vehicle. The Mountaineer is a nice truck with a lot going for it...and smartly equipped, it's less than $30K. Compared to the ML320 or MDX, you saved about $8K, which is actually about $10K if you finance for 5 years.
Just out of curiosity, did you actually look at and drive the Rendezvous? If you did, what did you think? It truly looks better in person and the ride/handling are top notch.
you made a fine choice...i ll be ordering my 2002 mountaineer soon... i looked at the acura and ml yesterday...when i got in the acura..and started to drive.. i thought i was in the honda minivan...but it was overall..a nice drive..but i didnt like the visibility..maybe it was new to me
it does go against one s grain to pay sticker..but so what..sticker is a number...i think the acura is worth sticker..a good value..
the striped my is a good value....but who wants wone stripped...mercedes soaks u on the options..
they had no third row seat mercedes for me to look at...but i heard it wasnt the greatest..
i think the mountaineer is great looking...a great value...and cant wait to order mine...
i ve been reading the posts..have read some nightmares about the sacred mercedes ml...and the mercedes dealer refusing to fix..the vibation that was causeing the truck to shake...the mercedes enthusiasts advised on going to another dealer for repairs..
granted the mercedes has a nicer interiors..but the exterior is ugly...imho
the acura was a bit too wide for my garage and the dealer was too far
the mercedes dealer was also far..doesnt have the rear glass liftgate like the mountaineer...
good luck with your 2002 mountaineer...
i havent heard anyone complain yet who is an owner..
ps proteus..most of us would agree that the mercedes is a better vehicle..but for my 35K
i will get a mountaineer with every factory option
available
the ml320 starts at 35 K
so u can get a mountaineer with every option or a ml with no options for 35K..that is the bottom line proteus..and dont tell me the mercedes includes scheduled service..the lincoln mercury dealer here charges 25 dollars for an oil change..and mercedes reccomends oil changes every 5 or 10 thousand miles..im not sure which..
so proteus
for my 35 K i will get these things that the ml wont have at 35K
i ll get ford leather
i ll get ford heated seats
i ll get upgraded ford 6in dash cd stereo system
i ll get audio/temp controls on the steering wheel
i ll get towing package limited slip
i ll get running boards
i ll get moon roof
i ll get lift up glass on rear
i ll get side air curtain...u will need to wait til 2002 to get that on ml..
i ll get free metalic paint..a 500 option on mercedes
oh ..i ll get a Ford V8
i ll get rear obstacle sensing system
i ll get dual front temperature control
i ll get compass and outisde temp
i ll get memory seats
i ll get a smile when i drive by a ml and think of the commitment of some guy proteus and how much he had to spend to get a comparably equipped suv as my mountaineer...
oh .i ll have to pay a few hundred dollars to get a fourth year warrantee.. which mercedes has
but come to think of it.. ive had my 96 explorer almost five and a half years..i paid to get the extended warrantee..its fully warranteed until six years..with 100 deductable ...but guess what proteus..i never had to use it...and btw..my explorer has 50K miles and the original goodyears
and original brakes...i ll wonder how much you will pay for your mercedes brake job...good luck
good luck to you and I hope u enjoy your ml as much as i will my mountaineer
Value is not written in stone, it is a personal perception. $2000.00 will buy FOUR suits at JC Penny or ONE from Armani. Which is the better value?
This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. Drive whatever vehicle best suits your lifestyle and don't worry about what your neighbor parks in his driveway.
Mercedes leather-much higher quality than Fords
the same heated seats
No need for towing package or limited slip, due to the far more advanced full time 4wd system (that lets you use low range on pavement). Just add trailer hitch
V6 that is smaller, more efficient, more powerful, AND more fun to drive mated to the most advanced 5-speed auto on the market. (which allows manual shifting btw)
Moon roof that will allow occupants to survive a rollover
Superb drivability..at 90mph+, no squeaks, rattles, wind noise, sedan like handling
rear hatch that doesn't shatter, or squeak(I forgot, which recall was that?)
Full torso side airbags, front AND rear, unlike ford (front only)
A strong rigid body that allows occupants to survive the most stringent US and german CAR crash test standards, including rollover.
Stability control, brake assist, available Xenon headlights....
Running boards are not needed, as ML has a low step in height.
Mercedes build quality, fit and finish.
far better trade-in value (which more than makes up for the price difference alone).
If you want the 2002 model, you can also get...
front and rear obstacle sense system
side curtain airbags
voice activated audio/climate controls
front and rear climate control.
Many of the differences are really hard to describe unless you see them for yourself. I've driven both vehicles..have you? If you're about to spend 35K+, you OWE it to yourself to check out the competition. If you can't afford the ML, the MDX is a very worthy competitor in your price range...(unless you need 4000+ lb towing ability).
Also, just a gentle reminder that this is the '02 Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer discussion topic. While comparisons and off-topic banter is normal and permitted, the main focus of the topic should be the vehicles in the title. However, If you like, I can create a discussion topic for both of these vehicles vs. the MB M-class, where you can debate (civilly, of course) the pros and cons of each vehicle vs. the others. Any takers?
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I was refering to the Ford milage/power..I didn't know you had the option to run regular on the ML..:-)
Thanks for any responses to my inquiry.
/direct/view/.eefff78
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Here's what we found in Oklahoma City. I asked for quotes from 4 different Ford dealers and 2 Merc dealers for identically equiped vehicles. A 2002 XLT with V-8, tow package, and 3rd seat, versus a 2002 Merc with a V-8, and tow package. The Merc comes standard with the 3rd seat, so we were in essence comparing apples to apples. All of the quotes were requested via the web, either under Autobytel or the Ford web site. Autobytel directed both of my requests (Ford and Merc) to the same dealer...Crossroads Ford which is also a Lincoln/Merc dealer. They came back with the highest quotes. The rest of the dealers were contacted via the Ford website, and the cheapest was Joe Cooper Ford, which is where I bought my 97 F-150. They told me it was their policy to charge invoice for any ordered vehicle. Reynolds Ford/Lincoln/Merc in Norman came within $50 bucks for the Explorer, but wouldn't negotiate on the Mountaineer. My wife and I both liked the Mountaineer better, and were willing to pay a little more for it, but not $750 more. Especially when you consider the differences are primarily cosmetic. Based on the best price and a very good previous experience with Cooper Ford, we ordered the Explorer XLT from them, and ended up adding the side airbags. The car was built last week, and we're expecting to get it this week or maybe early next week due to the holiday.
As far as what you can expect, I suspect it's a local thing. Reynolds originally quoted me a price on the Explorer $500 more than Cooper, but he called me back and said if I ordered it that week, they'd drop it another $450. When I ask if they'd do the same on the Merc, he said no. If they would have dropped it to within $250 of the Explorer, we would have bought the Merc. Based on my data, $250 was the difference in invoice price.
>>..."There must be more to the story than Ford CEO Jacques Nasser's rather feeble explanation that his company had lost confidence in Firestone products. This was quickly followed, after all, by counter-statements from General Motors and Nissan that they detect no problems with Firestone tires and will continue to source them as original equipment.
And freed of its fealty to Ford, Firestone's guns are blazing with accusations that the rollover problems stem not from flawed tires but from suspension quirks in the Explorers. They support their claim with news from Venezuela that Explorers are tipping over there at an unseemly rate while equipped with Goodyears and other brands.
Firestone is also pounding home the fact that the failures involved no more than 80 of the estimated 50 million Wilderness tires that have been on the road. That means that less than 0.02% of Wilderness tires shredded in rollovers, a number that's statistically meaningless.
Moreover, 30 of the tires examined by the company after fatal rollovers were either punctured, road damaged or inflated at dangerously low levels."...<< http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB991104359669149274.htm
Remember, "Quality is Job #1 at Ford", which explains why, according to JD Powers, Ford has the worst quality of the domestics, which hugely lag the imports by and large.
Also remember that focusing on the "discounts" available on Ford products - which are not available on the better built Mercedes or Acuras - really highlights what has become apparent - the Fords are overpriced.
Furthermore, the Fords - because of high depreciation - will likely prove more costly to own, despite their lower status and initial prices.
How's your aux climate sysem working? I tested drove V6 and V8 a couple weeks ago both without aux climate system. Sales told me I don't need it unless I live @ desert area summer goes up to 100+F. My Villager has dual air on it. Kids sit at the 3rd row seats always want to turn it on during summer time.
I got a quote Invoice +$1300 2 weeks ago less a few options I want. Got 2nd quote invoice + $662 for factory order to all the option I need.
If this trend (price dropping) continues I will get it invoice or maybe below. Cross my fingers
I got a pretty immediate reply, and found out that they should be offering both options together sometime in the fourth quarter of this year. No word yet on the stability control system though.
KB
I am looking at a medium wedgewood blue with light wedgewood accent at bottom.
It's got a charcoal gray leather sport buckets package, and that includes an overhead console. This one's got an in-dash cassette with CD and a 3rd row seat package.
I like the 4.0 V6 SOHC as it was in my older Explorer as well. It's also got trailer tow and Goodyear P245/70R16's. It's got running boards, Class III/IV tow package, a 66A convenience package with some nutty visor mirrors with lights and auto lamp headlights (still unclear as to what this is)... and a 66B Luxury package group with dual automatic climate control, electrochromatic mirror, premium alloys with 16x7, and a two-tone luxury leather buckets. It's also got a 67C - auxiliary climate control.
What else is there that we ought to be considering? The MSRP of that car is $32640. What might it be lacking that I might wish I had later?
-Ret
I agree with bjk2001 on the remaining options. The AWD is a consideration - - I do like the handling with it. The reverse sensing is a frill that is again nice to have but not essential. The side curtain airbags were a requirement for my shopping list. I also have the med wedgewood blue with med parchment interior.
Thanks,
Jimmy
Surprisingly, it's got a lot more "goodies" than the 2002 Explorer that I investigated myself, and a lot more neat extras that were not expected til it was here. Memory 1-2 seats, heated seats, fog lights, lights that illuminate when the remote entry button's pressed, just nice little treats for the owner. Personally, I think the 3rd rear seat option with the V6 is nifty - there are not very many with these luxury items, the high-tech look, and the use of the 3rd rear seat with a high-output 6 cylinder.
So far, so good! I guess I will keep you all posted. I learn a lot here, and will monitor this area to learn more about these cars. They certainly are good looking and definitely unusual.
-Ret
1. More goodies for the Mountaineer than on the Explorer for the same price, or too close to worry about.
2. the looks, the looks. Mountaineer's front grill area, odd headlights, and rear grill-guard appearing tail lights were too good to pass up.
3. Resale.
4. Color schemes.
5. seats - two tone, high quality.
6. digital information system in dash with running totals of miles, miles to empty, etc.
-Ret
I have the Limited Slip and trailer tow package on my 96 XLT Control Trac. The bike rack I want to buy now fits the 2002 two inch receptacle, so it will work on my new 2002 Mountaineer. Will the bike rack also work with my old 96 Explorer? Thank You. And enjoy your new trucks, I cant wait till i get mine
What kind of gas mileage are others getting with this setup?
1. Gas milage for Mountaineer with 4.0 liter 6 cylinder AWD.
2. Noise from AWD when driving above 70 MPH.
Appreciate any information that you can provide.
What is Bilstein part number for 02 Explorers, I can't find it listed.
The tires I have seen on the 02 Mountaineer are Goodyear Eagle LS, not Michelins.
If I was to do a swap, I'd put the Explorer Michelins on it, mostly to stiffen the ride. I drive a lot in snow and rain, but don't plan on going "off road" by choice.
The Michelins will give a softer ride than the Goodyear Eagles because they have softer (less dense) treads. That also means that they puncture more easily and wear out after anout 40K miles.
I'd stick with the Goodyears that you have. They are good tires, and unless you can sell them to defray the cost of the more expensive Michelins, you probably wont realize a big difference in ride or fun.
BTW, I live in NYC, and they are stealing Michelin tires off of explorers here, probably because of the shortage of these tires. I've seen a few explorers up on blocks in the morning with their tires gone. I'd also invest in lug nut locks.
Good luck
I have the same experience with the harsh up shift between 25-30 mph when the gas pedal is released. A Ford factory rep called me last week to interview new owners (I am impressed with that). It was a very thorough interview - about an hour. In discussing the transmission characteristics including above and others, he said "it's a learning transmission, and that by 2,000 miles it should stop doing this" however he also noted there is a fix' at the dealer for those transmissions where something is wrong. Mine goes in Monday to have it looked at and fix what I hope are some other minor things.
As for gas mileage - I'm getting 14-16 around town, and 20 - 21 on trips - both cases A/C always running.
Someone above asked about AWD drive noise above 70MHP - I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary so far.