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Comments
I would unplug the cord, or stick it into a power outlet that is connected to the ignition switch, rather than a live plug 24/7...
The tiny amount of power going to the turned-off GPS unit would be an issue only if you had the car parked for a long time.
And what exactly is considered a long time?
>>I would unplug the cord, or stick it into a power outlet that is connected to the ignition switch, rather than a live plug 24/7...
How would I go about connecting it to the ignition switch?
Thanks
you way overpaid for a 3 year old car in the long run. If you keep your 3 year old vehicle for another 3 years then buy yet another 3 year old vehicle, you will have spent MORE than if you just bought the brand new vehicle at today's rock bottom price of $27,000 (about $3000 less than they were selling for 3 years ago new, by the way).
The 8 grand you think you "saved" was merely deferred and was being penny wise/pound foolish. Now if you could have bought the XLT for $16,000 or even $17,000.....
A certified used car with the features I got was valued at 19,600 by Edmunds, so I beg to differ about way overpaying...
Maybe you should have sent me a check for that 8k first and I would have bought the 2005.
Kelley shows that the dealer probably bought that vehicle for about $13000. He cleaned up, man! So MUCH MUCH MUCH more of your dollar went into dealer profit (to "instant depreciation heaven") than the 3% holdback plus a few hundred above the true rebate-included invoice you would ahve paid for a new vehicle.
Let me put it another way. Let's say you keep your 26K mi vehicle until it hits 100,000 miles total. Or you could have bought a new vehicle and kept IT for 100,000 miles total. In this case, the new vehicle would have cost less per mile to operate. Buying a 2-3 year old vehicle, ESPECIALLY an American vehicle, is generally an EXCELLENT way to reduce that cost per mile. But in your case, you so way overpaid that you blew that advantage. Not to mention the uncertainty that comes with buying a used vehicle.
You would have been better off financing the new vehicle for a longer period of time...it would have lasted that much longer anyway....than doing what you did. Again, the dealer paid about $13,000 and you way way way overpaid, Edmunds or not.
Sure, you avoided $8K additional INITIAL OUTLAY, but to do that you accepted a reduction in the value of your used vehicle over new. Sort of like buying half a gallon of gas for $1.75 when a full gallon is $2.25. You "saved" 50 cents....NOT!
Then again, you must be the expert so KBB.com and Edmunds.com are wrong.
What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?
For daily auction and car lot trends on particular vehicles, check out the posts over in Real-World Trade-In Values.
Steve, Host
Be thankful you can not think twice about spending an extra 7-8k for a new car. I'd rather get one slightly used and put the rest of my money to work.
Did you finance or pay cash?
Once my 2006 Explorer comes in, somebody will find an excellent deal on my 2002 Mountaineer. I doubt it will sell for more than $10,000 in the current market, yet it should give many more years of good service (I would certainly keep it, save for the ride being rougher than I am willing to continue to tolerate for the 31,000 plus miles I drive every year).
As another example, we sold our 1994 Thunderbird LX V8 in 2003 for $3,000. It had gone 120,000 miles, but looked and ran great. The buyer was a young relative of someone we knew through our work. He could not believe the excellent condition, and he was wisely starting his adult life without developing a dependency on consumer debt (I was not so smart). There are plenty of six to ten year old cars available for a few thousand dollars, and unless you drive far more than average annual distances, such a car should give several more years of good service.
Once you get off of the consumer debt addiction and build up your income and savings, you will be able to buy brand new cars with cash.
There are many reasons why a 2002 Ford/Mercury won't sell for much money: it's a gas guzzler, it's American (Ford or GM in the same boat), crazy deals by dealers for new vehicles now to catch up to Toyota/Honda, etc. While all cars depreciate, Japanese (and perhaps German, etc) do so much more slowly, which is quite nice for buyers of new vehicles.
I just don't see how you can think people can save up thousands of dollars and drive "junkers" until they have enough to buy a new vehicle. Owning a new vehicle shouldn't just be for upper class people, it should also be for hard working lower/middle class people too.
To get back on topic, we have a 2003 Explorer which we bought new (has 19k miles now) which we will for sure be getting rid of prior to our factory warranty running out (due to dealer and Ford issues/run a rounds). I imagined that spending $30ish thousand dollars on a vehicle "entitled" us to some decent service and to be treated like a human being--guess again. Someone will get a good "deal" from us when we sell/trade, but we'll be happy to give them the good "deal" as we are running, not walking, into Toyota's arms.
The $30,000 range is the average new car price. The Explorer and Mountaineer, especially with all of the 2006 upgrades, represent excellent value for the dollar. For about the average new car price, they provide well above average utility, safety, and features.
I highly recommend the best selling book The Millionaire Next Door. It is enjoyable to read and full of useful information. Anyone who is not just starting to work, just the victim of some disaster, or disabled in some way should have money saved and invested.
I guess I'm just very satisfied by the way that each time I go to Toyota to have my car looked at for any reason, I receive a survey from Toyota Company (not the dealer) and I also get random phone surveys from Toyota Company about my satisfaction--now that's what I call service. I believe Ford would dare not call here as I would have nothing positive to say and they know it. People warned me not to buy a Ford, but I said I'd give them one more chance (had a used Topaz and used Taurus prior to the Explorer which weren't high quality, perhaps understandably). BTW, I've had similar problems with Ford dealers in 3 of the neighboring cities that I've visited. Perhaps this has been due to my young age (25), but if I have the money, I think I should be treated like all their other customers (want to be treated).
PS I don't expect a $20 or $30k vehicle to be perfect, but I demand that I do not get the runaround for obvious problems (gas gauge, window motor, etc), but Ford Mo Co apparently loves to play these games, and it's obviously showing with their sales slumping big time (lucky they have the Mustang right now...)
I hate to admit it, but this has been my experience as well! I had a the driver's side front door handle rattle, they tried all kinds of adjustments and wrapping it in material to get it to stop rattling, to no avail. FINALLY, on the fourth visit they ordered the handle from Ford. THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ON A $30,000.00 vehicle.
BTW, I just traded in my '01 Explorer w/41,800 miles on it last night for a Toyota 4Runner. I will give details in another post.
Nothing could have been further from the truth. I test drove the "Sport Edition" on my own when she wasn't around. The X-Reas Sport Enhancement package is a wonder of technical achievement! It links all shock absorbers together, with an extra one (shock mounted in the center of the frame), via an hydraulic line. Throw this SUV in to a corner at 50 miles an hour- it will stay almost perfectly flat! The fluid is pumped to the shock that needs it the most. The handing is similar to a sports car. This and the tuning of the suspension makes for a very livable situation. You can tell you have a live axle, but not much. At highway speeds the vehicle is 4 times more quiet than the Explorer. The new V8 puts out 275 horsepower with EPA estimates of 17 city and 20 highway. If I get these estimates it will be the same highway mpg that I got with the V6 in the Explorer. My eyes have been open. Now I see why Toyota will over take General motors---it will just take some time.......
I will still check this board from time to time to help owners of '01 and later Explorers. These are good vehicles, after all they are still the number one mid-size SUV sold!
When I was a member of NAISSO, the owner's group for the '94 to '96 Impala SS cars, some people would share stories of bad dealers, but I did not have any problems. For example, I twice had the carpet in that car replaced under warranty (after the warranty, I upgraded to the Cadillac carpet, which did not wear through).
My Mountaineer had three problems when it was new, and they were promptly and properly repaired. The first problem, a pinched fuel tank vent line which prevented adding gas to the tank, was corrected on the spot when I told them I was on my way from CA to St. Louis for my mother's funeral the day after 9/11/01.
I have owned other GM and Ford vehicles and have lived in several cities in Missouri, Virginia, and California, and have never experienced the kind of horrible service you guys described.
I sometimes let them know that I have taken apart, modified, and reassembled most major parts and systems on some of my previous cars, so they can't fool me. Most of the time I never mention my knowledge level, and I have not had problems obtaining prompt repairs.
Cheers,
John
For all I know he might have taken a 5 or 6 year loan on the 3 year old vehicle, which is really financial insanity.
Even on a brand new vehicle, the problem with a 5 or 6 year loan is that most people get tired or their life circumstances and vehicle needs change in that time. So they end way upside down. So the maximum 36 month loan rule is a good rule but there are exceptions.
Anyway, I didn't mean to beat you up about the used Explorer. I do think that the new vehicle was the better value (and maybe you should have financed that extra $7000 and paid it off quickly). But your overall strategy of being debt free shows you have the "big picture" very right. I hope your Explorer goes many miles! Our Mountaineer is at 37K miles and approaching it's 3rd birthday in September (it was the first 2003 our dealer delivered...I ordered it special in July 2002). So far...knock on wood...it's been much more trouble free than the 1995, 1997 or 1999 Explorers we had before it. I've never kept a vehicle more than 3 years but my wife is now working retail and it sits all day in a busy parking lot (can you say "door dings"?). So I've decided she is going to drive this until the wheels rot off as it just makes no sense to put a brand new vehicle into that parking lot day after day. I just hope it doesn't nickel and dime me to death as some Ford (and, I guess, other make) owners have experienced.
People have different comfort levels with debt and if you aren't lying awake at night worrying about your car loan, then you're probably fine. Maybe the person with the six year car loan at 4.5% has the funds tied up in a REIT that's throwing off 12%.
And if you really want to enjoy a good cash flow, drive them forever. My record is 17 years.
The holiday is half over; let's start easing back to Explorer talk and leave the debt philosophy for the Smart Shopper forum shall we?
Steve, Host
Fine to stay ontopic from here on out.
Back on topic, I think it shows that the Explorer and Mounatineer are excellent values when people who are investors, not spenders, are buying them. Speaking of the 2006 models, for about the average new car price, what else could someone buy which has rear or all/4 wheel drive, an excellent V8 and 6-speed automatic, an independent rear suspension, a smooth and quiet ride (if what Ford says in the Mountaineer media kit is true), good handling, one of, if not the best, stability control systems around, side air bags, an excellent sound system, a fancy interior, seats for 5 or seven, plenty of cargo space, and kinds of nice little features which are so handy - a compass, power everything, heated mirrors, speed compensated sound system volume, and so forth. You could easily spend 50% more for something like the new ML-500 and still have less cargo space (and good luck finding an ML-500 without all kinds of expensive options, or trying to order one at or near the invoice price).
Wow Steve, 17 years is a long time - what kind of vehicle? I still see old El Caminos and Rancheros on the road, some of them looking as good or better than new. If not for the radical improvements in safety features in the past few years, I think that many of us might have kept some of our vehicles for more years. The mechanical parts are not too bad, but the interior and body parts start to become very expensive.
It was an '82 Tercel, and I would still be driving it but we sold almost everything for the Millenium and did a year long road trip in our Ford*, winding up in a different state when we settled back down.
[*ok, our Ford is a Quest minivan, but it was assembled by Ford in Ohio - how's that for being sort of topical?].
Steve, Host
Now WHO wants a life boat built like rock?
Mark
Isn't it time to put this issue to bed? I've been convinced that you know all there is to know about financing, and that you're rather insensitive.