Lexus IS 300 SportCross

dardenkoa · October 2003

is there anyway you can find out the numbers for brands like Infiniti and Acura. it will be interesting to see a comparison of how well the "new" luxury brands are doing against each other.

imho, lexus, infiniti, and acura still need a few more years to catch up (in terms of branding only) with the more well established names such as BMW and Mercedes.

don't get me wrong, i love the "lexus" brand. it has come a long way in the past 10 years in establishing a strong presence in the luxury market place. i just think the general public still prefers to give more "respect" to BMW and Benz. personally, i see Lexus just as good as a BMW or better. yeah, bimmers are the "ultimate driving machines" that tend to break down more than the Lexus. :P

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... Toyota and Lexus web sites have press releases and other info talking about their sales fortunes. Lexus had one of its best months ever this year in August. But Lexus sales are being fuelled by high SUV growth. Thinking they make up about half of Lexus sales.

I clipped out an article from USA Today, dated 10/9/03. Total sales list in CY03 thru end of Sept:

Lexus 186,009
BMW 178,463
MB 159,447
Cadillac 153,680
Acura 126,227
Lincoln 119.736
Infiniti 89,856

It even compared CY 1990 sales to CY 2002 sales:

Acura: 1990-138,384 ... 2002-165,552
Lexus: 1990-63,534 ... 2002-234,109
Infiniti: 1990-23,960 ... 2002-87,911

Here is some recent sales data just for sedans.

Make Model September 2003 August 2003 YTD 2003 YTD 2002

Lexus ES 300 5,128 4,983 47,453 54,149
Acura 3.2 TL 3,657 4,624 39,278 48,494
Infiniti G35 3,494 2,612 27,724 21,466
Acura TSX 2,094 - 13,578 -
Lexus LS 430 1,739 2,168 15,583 19,909
Infiniti I35 1,162 1,716 11,194 20,022
Lexus GS 300 858 1,096 8,614 11,113
Lexus IS 300 848 1,420 10,954 16,341
Acura 3.5 RL 590 769 5,457 7,557
Infiniti M45 468 - 3,508 -
Infiniti Q45 202 263 1,834 3,049
Lexus GS 430 158 141 1,602 1,815
Infiniti G20 - 31 10 5,738

dardenkoa · October 2003

i was simply saying that the general public's perception of Lexus is still not as high as BMWs or Benzs. that's all. it is just a weird thing that people tend to have more "respect" when you say BMW. Lexus, to me, deserves the respect even though the Marque is relatively new in comparison to other brands such as bimmers, benzs, range rovers, cadillacs, and porsches. you know what i mean?

it is great to see that Lexus are doing well. i think it's a great company with quality products.

dardenkoa · October 2003

Guess what?

i ordered a black sportcross on September 25th, 2003. it was not a custom order. i simply picked one out of the 8 they were allocating to the Northeastern Region. the dealership told me that it will take 2-3 months till delivery...

well, i got a call from the dealership TODAY, October 23, 2003. The black sportcross 2004 model arrived and is sitting in the lot as i am typing this.

it took less than a month!!

i bet the car was already at the end of the production cycle when i "ordered" it.

anyway, i will be going up monday to check it out and then take it home.

you guys have all been great. i will let you guys know more details after i pick up the car.

btw, i might be able to negotiate some more with the dealership since they want to meet their end of the month quota. i am not in a big hurry to pick up the car. beginning of november actually works out better for me.

well, i guess we will see what the dealership and i can work out.

wale_bate1 · October 2003

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!

Go lasso that filly and bring 'er on home!

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... Lexus gets all the respect it needs. Good sales. A leading luxury marque. Great reliability. Just check out Consumer Reports results. Great customer satisfaction. Just check out JD Powers results. Pace to BMW and MB, they would love to have all this "respect".

dardenkoa · October 2003

i guess i might be wrong about the Lexus marque especially in the recent years. Lexus has certainly earned its own place in the luxury place more so in the past 5 years.

Toyota and other Japanese car makers had to invent new luxury names because the Americans cannot equate Toyota to Luxury. i remember when acura, lexus, and infiniti first came to the U.S., they were pretty much nothing more than expensive hondas, toyotas, and nissans with different emblems.

well, that certainly has changed. as a bmw owner for over 10 years, i have finally jumped ship and joined the lexus elites. for the longest time, i have always told myself that i will not abandon BMW. well, that is about to change in the next few days.

i am...i mean i was...a very loyal bmw driver. Lexus must have been doing someting right to entice me and others like me over.

saz1861 · October 2003

I am extremely jealous that you have received your car already!! Unfortunately, I KNOW my wait will be three solid months. The only question is whether I get it at the beginning or end of February. Please keep posting about details of the purchase experience, first driving impressions, break in, etc. I am interested in clear bras or window tinting especially. Stoneguard is very expense, $500.00 for full kit. I checked out the website of another one, Invinca-shield and it seems like a decent compromise between x-pel and S/G. One can install it themselves and buy the individual pieces they want. Does anyone think it makes sense to but the bra on the bumper? The pieces are expensive because of their size. Anyway, GOOD LUCK AND GOOD DRIVING!!

jmess · October 2003

I have X-PEL on the front bumper, hood, headlights, side mirrors, and rear bumper top. The installer also put some on the door edges. The whole package cost me $575 installed.

I think I could live without the front bumper cover since it is plastic. It would probably get beat up over time but would be far less noticeable than the painted surfaces.

I am going to just have the hood done on the wife's accord.

dardenkoa · October 2003

i am very excited to see my car as well. i am going up to the dealership this coming monday. since the car is here, i am not in a big hurry to pick up the car. i wanted to set up tinting appintments and such the same day of my pick up. plus, i need to strip my stereo stuff from my old car as well.

talked to the dealership today. they are PUSHING me to pick it up before the end of this month so they can meet their quota. i am getting a little pissed off about their attitude.

i have already agreed to buy the sportcross at the price we agreed when i ordered. they should be happy with that. NOW, they want me to get it asap when it is rather inconvenient for me until november 3rd.

not to mention, the dealership is NOT willing to provide me any sort of incentives for me to HELP them out early. in fact, they are trying to screw me over big time on my trade-in.

i am not asking anything from them, i just want a fair value for my trade-in. i am not even trying to cut down the original price by doing them this FAVOR!

their behavior is very disturbing.

i am not sure what i want to do yet. i will see what happens on monday. anyone has any suggestions?

jmess · October 2003

Just be polite and firm. Tell them unless they can get closer to what you want for you trade-in you aren't any closer to picking up the car before Nov 3rd. As Oct 31st draws closer, they might get a lot more friendly. You could always run and ad in the local paper and see if you can sell the car yourself while you are waiting.

Another approach could be to ask something like additional free maintenance. It doesn't really cost them much but saves you some money over time.

dardenkoa · October 2003

thanks jmess, great suggestions.

the only problem of selling my car on my own is the following:

1. i live in a very small town, not big enough of a market. it always takes weeks to sell cars between private parties here. unlike my girlfriend who lives in san diego, she sold her car in like 3 days without even putting an ad in the paper. she only had to put a couple of flyers at grocery stores and etc.

2. i had to replace my instrument cluster (done by the dealership) in my bmw about 1.5 years ago. in the process, the odometer milege got reset due to some computer glitch. so this issue makes it even harder for me to sell the car to a private party since no one likes to see a 10 year old car with only 15,000 miles on it. there's a sticker on the door panel put on by the dealer of the original mile before the replacement. but who's gonna want to believe that huh? hehe. well, i guess i was screwed on that one.

with that said, i prefer to trade the car in, less hassel.

yeah, i like the free maintenance or/and maybe the extended warranty (probably too costly for them to give out?).

i just feel that the dealership should treat me nicer since i am already buying the car. now, they feel that playing hardball to get me to pick up the car before Oct. 31st is a good strategy to get customers to help them meet the end-of-month quota? i don't think so.

this is what i see happening in the next week.

Oct 27th: i will see the car in the lot. talk to the sales person, tell the sales person about my "conditions" for early pick up, sales person needs to talk to her manager, sales person comes back and says "no can do". i go out to the lot. take lots of photos of my future car. drive home in my old car.

Nov 3rd: i will go and pick up my car and pay it in full. hell, i might even pick it up late evening Oct. 31st if they really get on my nerves from the monday meeting.

Nov 3rd forward: i will never go back to that dealership ever again for anything else if they pull some crap on me. with that said, i will also be sure to pass my experience on all lexus message boards out there so that others will be aware of this dealerhip's audacity. there are other dealerships who deserve my money.

saz1861 · October 2003

As far as I see it, you are in the position to demand a favorable deal or wait until November 3rd. It is exactly like a customer who waits until the end of the month to buy so he can get the best deal. Try to use his desired sales quota as a bargaining chip and see what happens. Print out Edmunds, kelly blue book etc. used car prices for your BMW and come in armed with that information and hopefully they will come up to a decent price. As you know, it is usually better to sell your car privately anyway but, as you said, you are in a unique situation. How about financing? Lexus has 3.5%, 60 months, through December 1st on the IS. I would go to one of the sites such as Capital One and get the no obligation blank check. Rates are 3.59% for up to 36 months and 4.09% for 60 months. I know it is a weekend so I don't know if they process applications but try to get a check Fed-Ex'd as soon as you can. If you have AAA and access the site through them, you may be able to get free Fed-EX service. I believe other sites may even let you print a certificate through your computer as soon as you are approved. Do a little digging and see what you can get fast. Definitely use the extend warranty option too if you want one. Say you will buy through them if they give you reasonable terms but if not, you will use warranty direct or another 3rd party provider. In this way, they have alot to lose, financing, extended warranty and the profit on your resale. They make more money on used cars than new. I would also try the local BMW dealership or one near your Lexus dealership and see what they will give you. Many times, the dealerships that sell your model car new can give you a better price than a different makes dealer. Anyway, Good Luck!!
P.S. Glad I don't have to bother with the trade-in/sell option. I have a 1990 Honda Civic LX Sedan with 170,000 miles. Been driving it exactly 14 years now. That is why I am buying new, and Lexus, figured I deserved it. My decision will be easy, see if dealership will give me more than my charitable deduction for donating the car will save me on taxes.

dardenkoa · October 2003

yeah, ok, i will do lots of print outs and arm myself before going to the dealership. i called my local bmw dealership. they actually did want to buy my car about 3 weeks ago. i could not sell it to them at the time because i was unable to borrow a car from a friend for 2-3 months (waiting for the sportcross).

so when i called the bmw people back, the general manager said that he already bought all the cars he needed for the month. but he *might* be able to work with me in 2-3 weeks. no promises though. even though i did not buy a car from them, the general manager at this bmw is one of the nicest/best car person i have came across.

anyway, thanks for the great advice.

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... Remember, in the car business there is no deal until ALL the papers are signed by both parties. Did you sign a binding contract with the dealer or not? If you did, then both you and the dealer have to abide by its terms. Just point them to the details. If you didn't, then you haven't agreed to anything with the dealer.

If you don't have a contract, not sure why you'd be mad at the dealer. You haven't agreed to anything. You are still negotiating. He wants to make the most money just like you want to save the most. You still need to negotiate the details. That includes the critical value of your trade. Might also include financing.

You have me thoroughly confused. Seems like you don't have a contract, but you seem to believe you do. If you do, the details (like your trade and financing) would be in writing, clearly spelled out. You wrote:

"i have already agreed to buy the sportcross at the price we agreed when i ordered...the dealership is NOT willing to provide me any sort of incentives for me to HELP them out early... they are trying to screw me over big time on my trade-in...i just want a fair value for my trade-in. i am not even trying to cut down the original price by doing them this FAVOR!"

dardenkoa · October 2003

sorry about the confusion.

these are the details:

i ordered the car 09/25/03.

the sales rep. filled out a "Buyer's Order" sheet with the MSRP pricing and options: $33,089. (this price matches KBB's pricing exctly with the options and specs!)

then the sales rep. subtracted the amount they are willing to take off from the MSRP: $33,089 - $1,5089 = $31,500.

i gave them my credit card to put down the $1,000 deposit to order the car.

the sales rep and i did not work out a deal for the trade-in nor the financing sections. left blank on the same "Buyer's Order" form.

and i actually did not even sign the order form! an error made by me and the sales rep.

however, VERBALLY, the sales rep. says that the deposit is not refundable. but i did not get anything in writing regarding this nor did i sign anything about this.

the sales rep. and i verbally agreed to WORK OUT a deal on trade-in and financing when the car arrives. thus, we or rather she did not fill out the sections for trade-in nor financing.

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okay, according to KBB, the invoice price for the car is $29,115. This means that i am paying $2385 over invoice ($31,500 - $29,115). since i think the average for over invoice appears to be $1,500, they are already making good money off me than average. i am planning to go back in with my printed out sheets from KBB, Edmunds, and other sites and show them what i know now.

so again, according to KBB, my trade-in for my 1994 BMW 325i, i should get $4,495.

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the only condition i want is getting $5,000 for my trade-in. i don't mind paying $2385 over invoice as long as they give me $5,000. i think i am being more than fair to them asking this while at the same time helping them meet the quotas for end-of-month. am i being irrational?

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so it appears to me like you (reiz) said that i do not have a contract with them.

they probably won't want to give back my deposit if i backed out the deal. i can fight it. if it does not work, i can dispute it with american express since it has only been less than 30 days since the transaction went through. so most likely i can get my deposit back.

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depending on what happens on monday, i have plans to call another dealership and tell them about my situation. i want to see if another dealership can grab "MY" car. a friend of mine suggested this to me. he said that the other dealership might be even willing to cut a better deal for me.

i guess the bottom line is i do not mind waiting. even if i do have to re-order and do everything from scratch. i am almost at the point of wanting to spend my hard earned money to more deserving dealerships than this one.

they are about to get a steak from me. all i want is for them to throw me back a piece of bone. is that asking too much?

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thanks again all for reading my looong posts and responding tot them. greatly apprecited. please do offer more suggestions or comments if you have any. i think i was being too haste and excited when i first agreed to buy the car from this dealership.

saz1861 · October 2003

I am not a lawyer but you MAY be able to get out of it. I'm sure it will be a hassle either way. There was consideration given in the form of $1000.00 but if I'm not mistaken a contract for over a certain amount of $'s must be in writing.
I don't think the average over the invoice price is $1500. Although I had two offers at $1400 over invoice the majority were quite a bit higher, maybe 1000-1500 off of sticker. A lot of dealers seemed stunned when I told them what I made the deal for. Don't discount the idea of going to a local BMW dealership near the Lexus dealership. If they make you a fair offer, you can bounce it off your dealership and if not just drop of the car at the BMW dealership then pick up your lexus. They probably would give you a ride over.
My buyers order was done in a similar fashion. We didn't know about finance etc. so we just said it would be brought up when the car came in although they did circle dealer financing. I signed it but when I got home I noticed that the sales guy did not. I called and he said, "Well we will sign a new one when your car comes in and we work out financing and trade." I replied OK but he has to understand my perspective because of the business I am in. He said fine and faxed me over the signed invoice, all without an attitude I might ad. I was more concerned with him increasing the price of the car. As far as you can trust a dealership, I trust this sales manager. The salesman at the dealership I test drove the used Sportcross at, in MD, said they had traded cars with this dealership and they had always been on the up and up. If you reconsider the current deal, I would be glad to give you the name of the salesman at Len Stoler Lexus outside of Baltimore that I dealt with and look up the quote I received from him. It was higher than the 1400 over but I don't think it was as high as another thousand over, maybe another 700? Baltimore is not that much further than DC.
I can't believe that the dealership would let the deal go bad over a trade in. Isn't it true that these cars are hard to sell? Then again, how much did they offer in trade? You said that the KBB was 4500. It may be tough to get 500 over that. I think the most important bargaining tool you have is the fact that you would walk. If you are going to walk, ask for your deposit back right then. When they tell you "no" write a letter to your salesman and their sales/fleet manager also describing the situation and then dispute in writing with AMEX with a copy of letter and story of asking for deposit back. Card companies always want you to try to settle with the merchant first so you are speeding the process along by already giving AMEX a record of your efforts. You have 60 days from the date the first statement is received that has the disputed charge on it. Also, verify with credit card company that if the dispute is not settled in your favor, you will not pay finance charges on the original charge amount. They should adjust any finance charges but I have heard stories of people disputing and getting charged them if not resolved in their favor. ( I did a credit card customer service call center stint when I was working my way through school.)
If you ordered a Sportcross now and they made it, you would not get it until March. As I mentioned in another post, the deadline was Oct 24th for December production. So, yours would go in with the November 24 deadline.
Good Luck!!! Keep all of us posted.

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... You might ask a lawyer. Each state's contract law can be different.

But based on what you wrote, doesn't appear you have a binding contract, unless (1) you are willing to buy the car from them at that price, (2) handle your trade yourself, and (3) skip financing thru them. If not, shouldn't be too hard to get you deposit refunded. (Lots of salespeople BS potential buyers about the refund. They'll say or do anything to keep you in the sales game.)

Sounds like you are really still negotiating over the critical deals. Negotiate firmly. Don't give away too many details. Don't seem too enthusiastic. Let them know they can and will lose a sale if you can't agree on things important to you.

I don't like the sound of this salesperson or dealership. The trade and financing parts of a deal can be the most important of all. They are usually the areas where the dealers make the most money. Dealers normally make more off used cars than new ones. But to do that, they buy low and sell high. That is likely why the haggle from this dealer.

Never attempt to buy a car without reducing everything to writing and having both parties sign. That way you know you have a contract and you know exactly what its terms are.

dardenkoa · October 2003

i am planning to meet the salesperson this coming monday at 1pm to negotiate on my trade-in. before i meet her, i will go to the bmw dealership of that location to see if they are interested in my vehicle. it won't hurt asking. thanks saz for the idea.

the lexus dealership said over the phone that my bmw trade-in is worth $3,000. this is $1,500 below KBB's quote for my trade-in. i thought that was just too big of a difference for me to even consider. maybe the pre-owned manager will give me a better offer after seeing and test driving my car.

wow, with the next batch being in november, that's a long wait. i really hope to work out something favorable for both me and the dealship tomorrow. in addition, armed with your advices and ideas, i feel much more comfortable now going through this final stage.

if my deal does not work out, there will one black onyx sportcross up for grabs. :P

well, we'll soon find out the fate of this particular 2004 Black Onyx SportCross beauty...

dardenkoa · October 2003

it certainly seems that the salesperson is scared of losing this sale over the dispute of the trade-in.

she asked me several time if i will still deal the sportcross without the trade-in.

i never gave her a straight answer.

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... You have to understand how the sales "game" normally works. The salesperson is pretty much on the sidelines. They have no power or authority. Often they just relay information. There goal is to get information about you: How desperate are you to sell off your car; How much do you desire (lust?) after their new car; What you might take in trade; What is your bottom line; Are you a difference buyer or a monthly payment buyer; etc. Your goal is to get information out of them and keep them guessing about you.

The real player is the sales manager or whatever that dealership titles the person who actually approves deals. The salesperson just wants commission on a sale, any sale. But salespeople can't approve sales. Salesperson will do or say anything to keep you in the game. Usually you get turned over to someone higher up the foodchain at the dealership. That closer negotiates the deals.

Don't ever let the dealership know what you want in monthly payments. Or a specific trade difference allowance--unless you bundle it all together in one last, best, final, reasonable offer that includes financing. Keep the ball on getting the best overall deal. That means paying the least amount of money over the life of the car. You are trying to get low price on their car, best price for your trade in, and lowest financing possible. The sum of these, as they interact, is the key. Don't focus on just one component. If you do, you'll get burned as they'll take you to cleaners on the other two.

dardenkoa · October 2003

okay, here we go. i am heading up to the dealership in an hour.

i will not be satisfied until i feel comfortable with all three components of the game.

i am more of a difference buyer than a payment buyer.

in the end, no matter what, i can always get up and walk. my old car is still in great condition. i certainly do not need a new car immediately. it will be nice but not necessary.

i am sure it is going to be a bit harder to resist when i see the new shiny sportcross in person. i must resist the temptation.

thanks everybody.

i will either come back tonight with the sportcross or not.

either way, i will keep you guys posted of my situation.

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... Let us know how it ends up. May the Force Be With You. Remember, all the power is really in your hands. You don't have to buy. Don't be desperate. Don't let 'em know how much you might lust after their car. But don't refuse a decent, reasonable offer. I rarely fight much if I end up $100 or so from making a deal. Maybe even $250-$500 if the car is hard to find. Not worth losing something nice over a few dollars. Esp. true for SportCross!

riez · October 2003

dardenkoa... Did you get it? Give us all the details.

saz1861 · October 2003

dardenkoa, I hope you have not posted yet because you're cruising around in your new SportCross.

r0bertbr1an · October 2003

I was reading about your problems and have a couple of suggestions, just in case things haven't worked out so far. If I remember correctly, you're in Charlottesville. If that is indeed the case, try taking your trade-in to CarMax in the west end of Richmond (Broad Street East exit off of I-64). They offered me a pretty good price on my Rodeo (somewhere between trade-in and private seller value). They'll write you a check right there on the spot. If you're up for that, get in touch and I'll give you a ride over to Lexus of Richmond to pick up your new ride. On the way I can show you how much this car kicks you know what. We're all anxious to hear how it's going. Good luck.

dardenkoa · October 2003

thanks all. well, this is what happened at Richmond Lexus Dealership:

Before I went to see the car this past monday, I called several BMW dealerships in the area to see if any will be interested in buying my old car. None were interested.

So I departed to see the new SportCross and work out a deal with the dealership.

First, they showed me the car. It looked awesome even with all its protective covers and plastic wraps inside. I walked around it, sat in it, admired it, and took some pictures.

Then the negotiations began.

After 1.5 hours of talks with the sales rep, the manager dude finally came out. I told him that I was unhappy with their attitude towards the end of this deal, and I am considering going to Alexandria dealership and even the one in baltimore as suggested here in the forum. I even told him that I have spoken to several current Lexus owners and post my thoughts on many Lexus community boards, he should re-consider his position. I guess I did indirectly threaten him b/c I said I am definitely going to post my experiences with the Richmond Dealership on all message boards. If it will deter one more person to NOT buy from them, I feel justified.

So he apologized...

Then He cut me a deal that was very reasonable.

He took off $500 more off the price of the car. This makes the car about $1800 over invoice which is reasonable. I was happy with that. They offered $2,500 for my trade-in which I thought was terrible.

So I asked IF i don't do the trade-in, I can still get the car at the new $500 off price? The manager said "yes, of course."

I was like okay, bUT I need to go to CarMax first (actually they suggested me to go to CarMax like r0bert did).

I went to CarMax (nice people there by the way). They did their evaluation. They were only able to give me $2,700 for the car due to unknown actual miles from my odometer being messed up. With the exception of that defect, everything was great they said. CarMax said that if my odometer showed actual miles, they would have been able to offer $at least $1,300 - $1,500 more for my car. So I thanked them and proceeded back to the Lexus dealership.

On my way back, I started to evaluate my situation. I have four options for my bmw: 1. Trade it in at Lexus for $2500, 2.Trade it in at CarMax for $2,700, 3. Sell it on my own, 4.See if Lexus is willing to just go a little higher than CarMax (not telling them what CarMax offered me of course).

I decided that I did not want to sell it on my own due to my odometer, the hassle, and not to mention i am unsure how long it will take to sell that car. Not only I will get a friend to drive me to pick up the BMW after I take the Lexus home, I still have to pay insurance and property Tax on it (the bill just came).

So I decided to see if Lexus will throw me another bone for the trade-in.

When I got back, I spoke with the manager explaining to him that I really want the car but I really need to trade the car in to get it. I asked him if he could give me a better deal on it.

He thought over it for a bit and said $3,000. So I said "okay, let me think about it."

I started to evaluate if it is worth for me to try to get maybe $4,000 or $4,500 on my car selling it on my own. The question I was trying to answer is "Is it worth the trouble to see if I can get an extra $1,000 on the car on my own?"

After deducting insurance and tax, it is more like $700 - $800 more. So I said "screw it." It's not worth the trouble since I know I personally would not buy a car without knowing the actual miles on the car. With that said, I went back and said "let's do it!"

So that's the story folks. I am now driving in the new 2004 SportCross and loving it. It is so much better than I ever expected. I will write my review of the car after I drive it for week.

As for the Lexus Dealership in Richmond...

They are a bit hard to deal with than other dealerships. but if you do persist and arm yourself with documentation and the whole internet community backing you up, they will give and treat you nice.

Although I was unhappy with the way they treated me at first, it did all turn out well.

In the end, I am satisfied with the deal. I am loving the car.

Without all your help and advice, I do not think I could of gotten the manager to cut $500 more off price.

I will give Lexus Dealership of Richmond a rating of 3.5 out of 5. I understand their point of view. They want the best deal for them and I want the best deal for me. Although it took a lot of persuading, they are willing to compromise. And in the end, everyone was happy including me.

How can anyone resist the SportCross. It is absolutely amazing.

oh yeah, not owning the car for more than 24 hours, I have already had more compliments on the car and "wow" factor from more people than I ever did with my BMW. Although I am not the type to buy cars for its image, this sportcross simply draws attention with its beauty. It is beautiful!

So that's the story.

I am now a SportCross owner. like the tony the tigers says "I feel grrrrreat!"

Thanks again everyone for your support. I could not have gotten through this without you.

saz1861 · October 2003

Glad to see things worked out, albeit wit alot of hassles. Once more, jealousy rears its ugly head. The bottom line is that you have your car at a fair price. When I was negotiating, I dealt with the sales manager only so I never had to go through the middle man salesperson. However, the dealership I bought from said their salespeople do not work on commission? Keep us posted and ENJOY!!!!
P.S. I thought they eliminated the personal property tax in VA or is it just on a community by community basis. ( I also lived in Norfolk from 1990-1996 besides my Richmond experience.)

dardenkoa · October 2003

The tax I am paying goes to the local city government. There's a tax relief which helps a ton. Is the tax relief to what you are referring?

Quoting the enclosed information sheet with my Personal Property Tax Bill:

---------------------
The Personal Property Tax Relief Act of 1998 for passenger cars, motorcycles and pickup or panel trucks having a registered grosss weight of 7501 pounds. To qualify, a vehicle must

-be owned by an individual or leased by an individual under a contract requiring the individual to pay personal property tax;

and,

-be used 50% or less for business purposes.

Motor homes, trailers and farm use vehicles do not quality for tax relief.
----------------------------------------

Yeah, working with the salesperson is so pointless. They have zero authority. In the case of the SportCross, they have zero knowledge of the car (some even think that the factory had been taken down and scrapped--hehe this is from one of the posts here from a response of a dealerhsip when inquired about the SportCross). Why do we even need sales people? Why don't dealerships just empower these poor souls whose true title should be "info. runner".

I have set up an appointment to get my windows tinted on friday. I cannot wait.

I am going to get the dealership to turn off the passive alarm function. I don't like it. It locks the car up automatically too quickly and too much. I also like to turn off automatically unlock function when the tranny is put in "park".

The factory stereo is surprisingly pleasing in comparison to other factory systems of other cars I have had.

So far I can only comment on interior and exterior looks.

I cannot comment on performance yet since I need to take it easy till after the break-in period. But man, it's so tempting to hammer it down.

r0bertbr1an · October 2003

Dardenkoa,
I'm glad you finally got your car. Trading in a car has to be one of the most frustrating things going. When I first graduated from college, I went to a Toyota dealership to buy my first new car (a Corolla SR-5 coupe). My 1980 Mustang broke down in the parking lot before they could evaluate it for trade-in. Talk about embarrassing. Anyway, remember that Virginia only has tax relief up to $20,000. The remaining ten grand or so will be taxed at the previous rate (before tax relief). I'm truly dreading that bill coming in the mail. It's still better than no relief at all, and if they had eliminated it all together, we'd be in the same boat as California. Sorry about CarMax. They are nice people, but if there's one little thing wrong with the car you're trying to sell them, they'll drop the offering price a lot. I'll be looking for your new ride when I go up to C'ville to check out the foliage. Since my car's broken in now, I'm ready to try out some mountain roads. Once again, congratulations. You're gonna love this car!

wale_bate1 · October 2003

Congrats dardenkoa!

I'm glad everything worked out well.

Welcome to one of the more 'xclusive automotive circles around!

If your next few months are anything like mine, the car will increasingly delight all your senses, and you'll find yourself taking the long way, or perhaps the less traveled road, whenever opportunity allows.

Robert, that was a real nice offer of help you made. Nice to know that people you share the chat board with were raised the right way!

Sylvia · October 2003

I'm glad it worked out for you.

dardenkoa · October 2003

robert, the foliage peak season had just passed, but it still looks pretty good. if you can, you should make the trip soon over west to the mountains before the leaves fall.

yeah, i am not looking forward to being taxed, but like you said some relief is better than none.

of course insurance went up some due to the new car. hehe. all these extra costs but damn well worth it.

--------------------

the funny thing is i am already taking the long route to work. man, i wish the break-in period would pass by faster. the manual says that this car does not require break-in period HOWEVER it will prolong the life of the engine by taking it easy for the first 1000 miles. lexus should not say things like "it's not required" to tempt people to "test" the car in the first 1000 miles. hehe.

i will be going to richmond for the 1000 mile/30 day check up the monday after thanksgiving. i will keep my eyes open for your sportcross robert.

jmess · October 2003

Congrats on joining the SportCross and IS300 club. I have had my car for 2 years now and continue to be very happy with it.

The take it easy period is more for the transmission and rear differential. The engine was ran in at the factory and is ready to go. The only thing I focus on with new cars is not driving at the same speed/rpm for extended periods of time and avoiding full throttle acceleration.

Once you get over 10K you will feel the engine getting even smoother.

wale_bate1 · October 2003

Hey, since we're such a small group, where are we? Be kinda fun to see where these hot little beasties are ending up!

Don't get specific if you're not comfy, but a general idea if you like:

wale_bate1: '03 SportCross silver/black, leather/NAV pack, no mods - SF East Bay, CA

r0bertbr1an · October 2003

r0bertbr1an

'03 black/tan SportCross

leather/graphite polished 17 inchers

Richmond, Virginia

Just over 2,000 miles logged (smiling every step of the way!)

jmess · October 2003

jmess
02 blue/black SportCross
Volk 17x8 GTCs, with 225-45-17 GoodYear F1 GS-D3s
Eibach sway bars
K&N intake
L-Tuned muffler
Xerd Mid Pipe
JDM mud guards
JDM dash tray
14,700
Portland, OR

dardenkoa · October 2003

2004 black/black SportCross

-Leather/Alcantara Value Package
-Heated Front Seats
-Preferred Accessory Package

Charlottesville, Virginia

almost 200 miles logged...

dardenkoa · October 2003

wow, jmess, your sportcross got some awesome mods. i like to get some mods for the car sometime in the future. which would you recommend doing first? the air intake?

after tinting, i am getting my sub amp and subs installed. then i think i might take it easy for a bit till i figure out what to do next for the car.

jmess · October 2003

The muffler and intake make a noticeable change in power. Either one would be a good place to start. I have the K&N Typoon intake. The new FPIK version would be a good choice.

The midpipe helps also but it adds more of a deeper growl to the exhaust note which can be sort of un-lexus like and a little loud at times. The net result is the car feels more responsive in the midrange when you go to pass a car.

You can't go wrong with the sway bars to tighten the handling up another notch. The bars were my first mod and I immediately like the change.

From a handling standpoint the car needs some better shock valving. The sway bars and wheels/tires just amplify this more. I am thinking of getting some Tokico HP shocks in the future. They are a twin tube design and self adjusting. I had some on another car and liked them. They soften up when you are cruising and when you hit a sharper corner, you can feel them tighten up. To me, the Bilstien HD shocks are noticeably firmer than the Tokico HPs when cruising.

riez · October 2003

Look at TRD's catalog. They have specific mods for IS300. Brakes. Suspension. Tires/wheels.

dardenkoa · November 2003

ok, i think i like to mod air intake as my first project and the probably the sway bars. not sure about the exhaust since i usually like to keep everything looking stocked with unnoticeable mods.

just got my windows tinted today. it is looking great.

saz1861 · November 2003

I am beginning to think I have made a mistake in ordering this car........it has only been two weeks since I placed the order and it won't be here until FEBRUARY!!! There is something about actually putting in the order that directly increases the desire to have the car. Didn't think I'd mind the wait but it seems like I put the order in months ago. Its going to be a long winter.
Philly suburbs, Bucks County, for this future owner. I have seen one of these cars in Philly and that's it.

dardenkoa · November 2003

Saz1861...

The SportCross in my opinion certainly belongs in a class of its own. Sure there are other "crosses" by other companies. BUT NONE looks and drives this beautifully...practical and yet performs like a dream. It is absolutely the best car I have owned so far which included BMW 325is, Toyota 4Runner Limited, and BMW 325i. My history should tell you how high I rank the SportCross among all others.

Maybe I should not praise the car so much to make your wait seem even longer...

Was it a mistake for you to get this car?

certainly not!

Was it a mistake for you to ORDER this car?

I don't think so. Due to the limited availability of this car, you had to order the car to get exactly what you wanted. sure, it would have been more convenient to be able to buy a different branded car with similar features off the lot. BUT you will never enjoy your compromised purchase as much as you would with the SportCross. The limited availability for the SportCross makes it just that much more special and enjoyable. I love the fact that I am among the very few proud owners of this car.

I know that I got very lucky by taking delivery of my order 2 months ahead of schedule. Even though I only waited for a month, it was certainly tough. I did not make it easier on myself either by constantly checking Lexus message boards, searching and collecting SportCross pictures, and making a to-do list for the car when i get it.

I don't have any ideas how to make your wait easier. I can certainly advise you NOT to check message boards and web sites for the SportCross. I can tell you not to constantly search and try to spot another SportCross on the roads. But it is way too hard to NOT think about the SportCross. I could not stop myself from constantly making it harder for me each day waiting for the car.

When I flew to California (before I got the car), I actually walked around the airport parking lots to see if I can locate a SportCross and check it out. Now, that's obsession which Lexus prefers calling "PASSION". hehe.

Well, the bottom line is the wait will be hard. Try not to think about it too much. I can't tell you it's easy to wait. I can't tell you that it will be easier as time passes.

However, your suffering and agony will all vanish and well justified as soon as you insert the key into your brand new one of a kind SportCross and hear her purrrr. this i can assure you!

the fact is my car did arrive 2 months ahead of schedule...that's all i gotta say about that. :P

dardenkoa · November 2003

i have spotted and talked to several people checking out my car, looking through its windows, and walking to the back of the car to find out the model type of this well crafted automobile with their admiring eyes.

i am removing the "lexus" and "is300" emblems from the back today!

thanks jmess for the great idea and the instructions on doing so.

they should of put "SportCross" intead of "is300" in the back. and i really do not know why Lexus feels that it is still necessary to put texted emblem "Lexus" on its cars. I think the Lexus logo (the slanted italic L) is well known and well recognized today.

i guess most car makers still choose to glue on their texted emblems onto their products...sigh...clutter clutter.

riez · November 2003

dardenkoa... No wonder the IS300 doesn't sell well. Owners de-identify them and lookers are left in the dark.

Wonder what people think about cars that are de-identified. I've never understood why people remove the marque and model emblems. It is like saying you like this specific car but dislike the marque and aren't really that keen on the model.

I never allow the dealer put a dealer emblem on my cars.

wale_bate1 · November 2003

"It is like saying you like this specific car but dislike the marque and aren't really that keen on the model..."

Well, you're closing in on it, but the gold still eludes!

The first part is dead-on. I love this car. It's undoubtedly the most satisfying car (thus far) I've ever owned. My enthusiasm for it is near boundless. And that's the point: it's all about the CAR!

Part two misses for me. I certainly don't dislike the marque, but I have unfortunately met more than a few people for whom the name constituted the major component of the purchase decision. So I certainly wouldn't mind somehow distancing myself from them, even though that in itself represents a certain sort of affectation. More importantly, the car is compelling and capable enough to not need the badging in the first place. I take it a step further than dardenkoa, in that for me the "L"s are completely unnecessary, since the car is undeniably an Altezza Gita in the first place, and the Lexus name has only added a dealership network with a service reputation to the mix.

Third part I don't get.

I'm inclined to remove the "L"s and the "lexus" myself, and leave the IS300 on there. As soon as I find time to hunt up a decent looking badge-free mesh grille, I'll floss the back-end as well.

Congrats again dardenkoa!

jmess · November 2003

I remember when I lived in Germany and a good friend's mom and dad bought a new higher end Benz and paid extra to have the badges not installed at the factory. They didn't want to upset the neighbors with their conspicuous consumption or flaunting their wealth. Since there were 1000s of this body style running around as taxicabs everywhere, it was hard to tell what the car was without getting real close or opening the hood. I sort of liked the idea.

I started removing some/all of the badges from my vehicles 10 years ago including my pickup trucks. I find a lot of the badges today to be garish and out of proportion with the rest of the vehicle. Why do I need to have huge 4x4 stickers on the side of my truck or M3 on the back of my BMW? I find my SportCross to have a much cleaner look in the back with the just the L on the hatch.

Badges can also attract unwanted attention. Like the time I got stopped by a cop who was doubting my average speed claims because I had the V6 version of his personal vehicle, proclaimed by the badges on both ends, which he knew was a lot faster. I got out of the ticket but I also removed the V6 badges the next day.

wale_bate1 · November 2003

My first recollection of a debadged car was a friend's father's 560SL. This would be sometime early-mid 80's I think. I remember seeing it parked in the driveway and wondering what it was. Only visual cues were the rubber and a small black rear-deck spoiler (matte-black). The only way you'd know it was the 560 was by looking under the hood or by getting left in the dust!

Somehow that made it that much cooler!

Been hooked on the idea ever since. I especially love debadged M-series cars. All that tough with none of the silly fripparies.

Way cool.

wale_bate1 · November 2003

Well, so far we're in:

Richmond, VA - r0bertbr1an; '03 black/tan
-leather/graphite 17"

Portland, OR - jmess; '02 blue/black
-Volk 17x8 GTCs, with 225-45-17 GoodYear F1 GS-D3s
-Eibach sway bars
-K&N intake
-L-Tuned muffler
-Xerd Mid Pipe
-JDM mud guards
-JDM dash tray

SF East Bay, CA - wale_bate1; '03 silver/black
-leather/NAV pack

Charlottesville, VA - dardenkoa; '04 black/black
-Leather/Alcantara Value Package
-Heated Front Seats
-Preferred Accessory Package

Wonder if these are selling in the middle anywhere?

Lexus IS 300 SportCross

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