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I have a 97 JGC with 4.0L I6. The engine idles rough. Fuel pressure test is out of spec. Replacing fuel pump requires removing fuel tank.
Thanks in advance.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I went with my Dad today to look at one of these to buy for the sole purpose of a "dog walk" vehicle. For a mere $3000 he could have a 4x4 to go in the spillway with. Anyway, I basically wanted to get some comments from people on what the weak points are and/or what something could be from my descriptions.
[*]It has 140k miles on it.
[*]Its automatic with the 4x4L and H drive.
[*]The front windows are roll up manuals and the rears are electric which is strange to me.
[*]The gas and speedo gauges seem to intermittently work. Cause?
[*]Steering it feels like steering a boat. The response is pretty late. Is this typical/normal? Just alignment? Steering wheel? Just new struts/shocks?
[*]Does it normally shift harsh in 2W or 4W drive? I have never driven one like this before so I don't know, but it seemed abnormally harsh to me from other cars/suv's I've driven.
[*]What does "PART TIME" mean when the 4W drive is engaged? Shows up on the dash.
[*]What is involved in fixing the Oil Leak if its the rear main seal? What are typical leak points for this vehicle? What other gaskets or whatevers would need to be bought and replaced during this repair if its the rear main?
[*]Whats the tire pressure supposed to be? Why'd it seem like the rear tires (on concrete) were making a lot of noise when going slow turning in parking lots?
[*]A/C seemed barely cool enough.
[*]BIG TIME.... BIG TIME.... OIL LEAK all over the bottom? Typical? Rear main seal? Oil pan? Whats do most of you see?
[*]Brakes seem to respond late, but I'd imagine seeing as the brake fluid looks like muddy water its never been flushed and probably needs new pads/rotors.
[*]Probably leave the transmission alone right? Probably never been flushed and would lose it if I flush the fluid? Does this thing have a special fluid setup in the back and front since its 4 wheel?
For the problems mentioned assuming those are "all" and knowing this will not be a vehicle driven anywhere else, but the spillway for walks with the dog would this be a reasonable investment?
Thanks so much !
A suggestion to consider: Drive or tow it to a radiator shop and ask them to pressure check the coolant system and check the engine coolant temperature sensor. The results should point you in the right direction.
Expect to pay for their time to look at it. Ask about the fee up front.
If tests look OK and it's not big $, I would replace temperature sensor just to eliminate it as an unknown. If the problem is the gauge in your dashboard, it will be difficult to pinpoint.
Beware. You could get misled. If drivable, get a 2nd opinion before making big $ repairs. Don't tell the 2nd mechanic that you've already had it looked at .
If somebody offers you a lower estimate because you won't make the repair right away, run as fast as you can.
anyone have a thought as to how to continue the diagnosis?
Jim O'
Thank you, Christina
if only have elictric fan then have fan moter that is going bad
Who can help a girl out and save me from spending money I don't have?
Thanks!
xoxx
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
How should I begin troubleshooting?
Due to my vehicle age I decide to troubleshoot myself or tow to junk yard. Doing your own work involves risk and buying tools, but if repair $ not getting results ??
Get a haynes manual. Buy/borrow a vacuum gauge. Follow their instructions. If gauge OK, read on. Otherwise your problem is probably different than mine.
Here's my story: Service ignition if overdue. Otherwise, just inspect spark plugs. Mine looked OK. My throttle has a sensor and control valve. Take picture of throttle area, then remove throttle and clean spotless. My control valve was very dirty. I replaced it. Engine ran better, but not fixed.
Bought fuel pressure gauge. My spec is 45 psi. At idle, gauge was vibrating between 35-42. Bingo !
My initial conclusion: Insufficient fuel pressure, steady or intermittent, threatens to stall the engine. Engine computer detects low rpm and tries to compensate, but can only do so much. Dirty throttle and/or controls just make it even worse.
Due to age of vehicle, I am pretty certain it's fuel pump, but first I plan to look for other possible causes. Replace fuel pump is big $ and probably too difficult for me.
Hope this helps. I didn't know any of this until I started doing my own research and troubleshooting.
NOTES:
1. Test gauges: harborfreight.com
2. Safety: follow haynes. Safety goggles a must.
3. If you let car sit overnight and get cold, you may not have to relieve fuel pressure because it may have dwindled to 0.
4. Electrical connectors are fragile.
5. So far, all parts have been available at Autozone
6. You may need tamper proof torx bits to disassemble throttle
7. My engine has test ports on fuel rail and manifold. Hope you are this fortunate.
8. Costs: manual($20), iginition parts($100), gauges($35), intake cleaner($5), control valve($40), torx bits($10).
First, buy a haynes manual and review their procedures. Here is how I would approach it.
Preparations:
1. Digital volt meter
2. Long black wire (about 15 feet) with a clip on one end and a plug on the other.
3.Red test probe with long thin point
4.Get pinout info on headlamp connector (haynes or alldatadiy.com
Clip one end of the black wire to the (-) of the battery and plug the other into Common/Ground on the meter. Unless you have a good ground, your meter readings may be erroneous. 15 feet should reach anywhere. Now, both hands are free to mainpulate the test probe. Set meter to 20 volt scale
I disagree with haynes about back probing connectors. I like to pull the connector off and directly observe my probe.
Anyway, disconnect the headlamp bulb by first removing the retainer clip. Haynes manual should have details on this.
Turn on lights and probe the 3 contacts on the connector. One is ground, One is hibeam. Meter should read battery voltage when on. Because hibeam is working I expect it to measure OK. Hibeam and lowbeam share the ground circuit. If hibeam is OK, ground circuit should be OK.
If lowbeam voltage OK and bulb is new, it should work. If not, consult a shop. The rest of this discussion assumes that lowbeam does not have correct voltage.
You will have to try and pinpoint the problem with your meter. haynes manual has some wiring diagrams or subscribe to alldatadiy.com
The problem could be a fuse, relay, connector, wire or some combination. The ground wire of any control component (e.g. relay) is also a potential suspect.
To check a ground wire, configure meter for resistance, disconnect (-) cable of battery and measure resistance between the wire and the END of the (-) battery cable. It should be zero ohms or close to it.
The body control module (BCM) is part of the headlight controls. I'd be surprised if it could interfere with normal operation of low beams because headlight is so essential to safety. I guess it's possible. Only the dealer can test the BCM.
Note: Probe carefully. If you short 2 contacts with your test probe, you will blow a fuse or worse.
With your vehicle's age get a vacuum and fuel pressure gauges. My jeep has test ports for both. If you don't, you'll have to improvise. If you let it sit overnight, you may not have to relieve fuel pressure to connect the fuel gauge My fuel gauge leaks unless I put teflon tape on the threads. See harborfreight.com for good prices on gauges.If you want to go all the way, do a cylinder compression test, but I haven't done that one yet.
Jim
Following tests are in my garage, wheels chocked. All unecessary vacuum ports plugged (evap, brake, speed control) plus the park brake Off. Fuel pressure and vacuum gauge attached to test ports.
Making extensive use of haynes manual plus I have Chrysler shop manual (all 2,200 pages).
Vacuum: At idle it is OK (about 20). Snap the throttle open then release. Appears to respond OK
Fuel pressure: At idle, its 45psi, but within specs. Gauge needle vibrates a little.
Measured fuel pump relay. Voltage is battery & steady. Replaced relay as precaution anyway because engine heat may have affected it. Only $10.
Measured ASD relay. Looks OK.
Engine coolant and air intake temperature sensors test OK. Camshaft, MAP and throttle position sensors are getting 5V, but I can't probe without risk of damaging connector so exact status is ?
No unusual engine noise. Inpsected fuel line. Looks OK.
Fuel injector: Probed injector 1 with a fluke meter that measures freq and duty cycle. Pulse width gets longer as you open throttle.
I can't compare it to specifications, but the engine does respond.
Have not done compression test, but I will this week.
Now, here it fails: Put transmission in D with foot on brake. Engine roughness really increases. Fuel pressure drops to avg of about 40psi and jumps all over between 45 and 35. Vacuum goes down to about 5.
If it's clogged injectors, why would fuel pressure drop? Fuel pressure not controlled by PCM. If it's fuel pump and/or line leak why does it accelerate and cruise so well. Why does pump have capacity to accelerate and cruise 70 mph, but not work when stopped at a light?
Would love to understand what's going on. Or should I be looking at something other than the fuel system ?
Thanks in advance.
I thought it might be the Idle Air Controller valve, so I replaced it but it is still happening.
Could it be a dirty fuel injector? What else should I check?
http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/4/
Your jeep is much newer, I would think they would have addressed the problem by now, but maybe not.
If you haven't done so, make sure the throttle is clean, especially the cylinder where the piston travels. I don't know why, but you need a "tamper-proof" torx bit to disassemble the throttle so you can clean it
I have rough idle and it almost stalls. Replacing my evap purge solenoid solved the stall problem.
Try disconnecting the vacuum line from maninfold to evap purge solenoid. It's for emission control. See haynes manual for more info. Plug the fitting on the manifold. Disconnect wire from the solenoid so that engine computer cannot enable it or plug the line. Disconnecting wire may cause a "check engine" light.
If you have problem in Park, you can do it in your garage with hood open. If not, make your road test as short as possible.
Make sure engine has warmed up. The engine computer won't enable the solenoid until it warms up
If it runs better, replace the solenoid and any vacuum hose that looks dry or rotted. My almost stall problem went away.
Note: If you do this yourself don't make my mistake. It's easy to pull the line off the canister which means the canister is evaporating all the time and is not controlled by the solenoid. The canister is under the bumper. You have to remove the air filter housing to access it and even then it is difficult.
The line that drains condensation from your air conditioner has become partially or completely plugged so the water backs up and eventually has to go somewhere.
Run your air conditioner on a hot muggy day at least 30 minutes and see how much water comes dripping out underneath the car. The drain should be close to the a/c coil that is integrated with your air ducts on the dash. It should be clear water if the drain is not dirty. No water is an obvious indication.
Take it to a shop if it looks suspicious. I never did this one. I believe you need compressed air to clean the line.
Did compression test...Bingo!...All the cylinders were 145-150 psi except cylinder 2. It usually peaked at 120. Squirted in some oil. Went to 150 like the other ones.
Spending big $ on engine a problem because I will need it for transmission....Local shops don't want to do repairs...They want to swap for used engine....Swaps have a much better $/effort ratio...Nobody wants to scrape a gasket anymore...They might replace my 160K engine with a 140K engine.
Is repairing engines a secret nobody wants to get out?
If we can put a man on the moon, we can repair a cylinder.
What are my options ? What tools will I need ? What is best approach ? What suppliers are rated best ?
Thanks for any input.
i would try and get some SEA FOAM from pep boys checker and squirt some in the cyl and let soak for a while then run it some for a few days with some in crank case then change oil see if dont get better small price to pay if works as if you didnt over heat the bugger could be stuck from carbon deposits and sea foam should take care of that
I just posted this link a few messages back(#4155):
http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/4/
1. The wet floor board is probably due to the drain line being plugged at the condenser. I believe you need compressed air to clean the line. I've never done that repair.
SAFETY GOGGLES A MUST TO WORK ON PRESSURIZED A/C SYSTEM.
2. If any of the fittings use O-Rings, find them and replace the O-rings. After 12 years of engine heat they are in less than perfect condition. You might have to buy a special disconnect tool (not big $). But there is risk of breaking a fitting when you work on it yourself.
3. The Chrysler manual says put the vehicle where there is no wind, evacuate freon, recharge and use "electronic R-134A" leak detector", whatever that is.
Auto a/c work is difficult for diy. I hope it's a line leak and not the compressor.
96 thru 98 were the best years.
This presents a problem because another issue is occurring simultaneously. Sometimes it will not start at all. It appears as if there is some kind of power problem, that I usually solve by messing around with the fuses. When I turn the key to the start position nothing happens. I have an stereo system connected to an antenna that comes up when the car is started. Whatever is keeping the car from starting is connected to the issue with the stereo system because at times when the car will not start I have no power going to the radio, cigarette lighter or windshield wipers. All other displays, power and lights work fine regardless.
When this happens I can't start the car until my antenna and radio come on. In the past year Ive had the starter and several other parts replaced, but that doesn't seem to be the problem.
The alarm is supposed to make other people afraid to enter my car- not me. Haha.
Any Ideas?
If the liftgate ajar switch on the liftgate or the one on the liftglass is faulty or has come loose, the body control module will not turn off and will drain your battery in 1 or 2 days. A schematic or connector pinout will show 1 liftgate ajar (digital) input on the BCM, but this input is the wired OR of the above 2 signals. I believe BCM uses this signal to disable rear wiper.
To check this out:
(1)disconnect (-) of battery and remove the bulb mounted in the hood.
(2) connect ammeter (10A) between (+) post and (+) cable.
(3) reconnect (-) of battery
(4) Whatever you do, DO NOT start it.
(5) Make sure all doors closed and manual lights turned off
If you have above problem, current will read about 200-300 mA and never drop. When working correctly, the current should drop to 30 mA in a minute or two.
Note: if current is negative it means ammeter is hooked up backwards. Solution and troubleshooting require removal of interior panel on liftgate.
When you open a door, it should draw around 5A until you close the door and the lights go off.
If you have the above profile, read on. If you have much larger drain, it is probably something else.
Removing electrical connectors from the switches should temporarily fix the problem and pinpoint the cause The switch on the liftglass is just a press fit. First, I tried to make it fit more securely. It was OK and then came loose again. I had to drill a small hole and use a tiny screw to keep it in position.
Another potential cause is if the body control module cannot communicate with another module like the door module over the Chrysler data bus. I found a service bulletin about this. The switch on driver door to disable locks/windows on other doors uses the data bus to communicate with other modules. Correct operation gives some indication the bus is working.
It is very possible, dealer replaced one of your switches and it was working when you left the lot, but it has come loose again.