Toyota Matrix

toledo19 · May 2003

microrepair · May 2003

I just dod the third oil change and I am amazed at the tiny little sump on this 1.8L engine.. It takes just 1.4 quarts of oil.. Geez, that's less than my rider mower takes, and it's only 12 HP..!! Since most autos take at least 4 quarts with some taking as much as 8 quarts, is this going to be a longevity problem if you don't religously change the oil frequently? This is my first Toyota which is why I'm asking. Do they typically have small oil capacities?

stillageek · May 2003

You only put in 1.4 Quarts of oil?!?!?! Are you sure you drained all the oil out? Something sounds bad as I know it does take 4 quarts for an oil change. Did you put a new filter on or keep the old one?

microrepair · May 2003

The owner's manual says 1.4 quarts and makes no mention of with or without the filter. After adding the oil, the dipstick reads at the high end of the range..

nippononly · May 2003

you're reading the manual wrong here, OR you are talking about the manual transmission? Of course, I don't think it has its own dipstick.

Something is way off here - it is true this engine takes 4 quarts of oil, slightly less w/o filter.

toledo19 · May 2003

Yeah. No way is it 1.4 qts.!

herzogtum71 · May 2003

I just checked the receipt from the last time I had the oil in my 4WD Matrix changed at the dealer. They charged for 4 quarts. Something is screwy here. Is it possible that there are different engines that take different amounts of oil?

xr5speed · May 2003

Microrepair is correct; the 5-speed Matrix does, in fact use all of 1.4 US qts of motor oil. Like him, I wonder about wear and tear on an engine with such a small oil capacity. Perhaps we should peruse some motorcycle chat rooms.

Just filled up after a bit of highway mileage. 38.2 MPG

nippononly · May 2003

the autos and the 5-speeds have the same engine people! At least at the same trim level they do.

They definitely put four quarts of oil in mine when they changed it - I have just looked. This is also what my manual says.

1.4 quarts sounds an awful lot more like what the manual transmission would hold.

xr5speed: what is your source for your statement in #1948?

xr5speed · May 2003

I was surprised at the low oil capacity so I looked in the manual AND at the receipt from my first oil change. 1.4 qt and 1.3 qt respectively. . .and I checked the dipstick to make sure it was full.

montanafan · May 2003

Vibe base engine with filter 3.9 quarts (no difference based on transmission, which seams logical)
Vibe GT engine with filter 4.8 quarts (bigger filter I believe)

The only "1.4" I could see in the manual, was for refrigerent charge 1.41 lbs of R143a.

xr5speed · May 2003

Oil Qty, L (qt., Imp. qt.):
1ZZ-FE engine 1.3 (1.4, 1.1)
2ZZ-GE engine 1.5 (1.6, 1.3)

lngtonge18 · May 2003

Toyota may have misprinted the Matrix manual? Or are people reading it wrong? There is no way a 1.8 liter engine only holds 1.4 quarts of oil. The engine would overheat and self destruct! Even my tiny 1.6 liter engine in my 92 Miata holds 3.8 quarts, and so did my 1.5 Accent. I think even the 1.0 3 cylinder Metro holds 3 quarts! If the Vibe manual says 3.9 with the same engine, than we know Toyota's is wrong or people are misreading it.

nippononly · May 2003

with manuals that say 1.4L - something is wrong here!! Could be a misprint or something, but a 1.8L engine HAS to use more than 1.4L of oil. The above post is right, at 1.4L the engine would self-destruct.

This is one of the weirdest things I have ever heard of with a new car.

Luzer · May 2003

Code 8 is Base/XR; L is GT/XRS

Engine Oil with Filter
1.8L Engine (Code 8) 3.9 quarts (3.7 L) . . . . . . . . .
1.8L Engine (Code L) 4.8 quarts (4.4 L) . . . . . . . . .

xr5speed · May 2003

Those amounts are the amounts needed to fill the crankcase from the low point on the dipstick to the high. . .boy, do I feel like a dipstick now!!!!

nippononly · May 2003

WELL THAT EXPLAINS IT THEN!!!

plantsandbirds · May 2003

FYI, the Toyota website now has the 2004 Matrix up. It shows the new colors (yellow, gray)...alas, the interior views are of the 2003. Wish I had more info on the gauges on the '04. Anyone seen one yet?

montanafan · May 2003

Thanks for pointing the update out. Quick look shows Toyota dropped the Auto Trans on the XRS.

nippononly · May 2003

I drove the auto in the celica GTS (same engine), and even in that car the auto bogged down sometimes and hurt the performance.

While I never drove the XRS, it is 300 pounds heavier than the celica, not to mention having a higher profile. I don't understand why people would pay the premium for the high-power engine just to have the power sapped by the automatic.

kris0877 · May 2003

I'm confused, the local dealer says the STEEL wheel size on base Matrix is 15" while Toyota's website specifies 16". Anybody with base Matrix w/o "B" package?

dmundy1 · May 2003

If you go in and look at the 2004 eBrochure on the Toyota website it has "Red projector Optitron meters with speedometer, tachometer...", so it appears as though the color ('colour' for my fellow Canucks) of the gauges remains red, not white.

hurler4 · May 2003

I had heard that the gauges would remain red, but the font of the numbers or the lighting would be altered so they could be read more easily. If anyone looks at a 2004 in the next few days, let me know about this.

Any news on the auto light issue? I assume they have fixed this problem in the 2004s?

I really want to like this car (and buy one). Just want to make sure they fixed the first-year bugs...

microrepair · May 2003

Ooops, I re-read the manual for the 7th time and the 1.4 quarts is from low dipstick to high dipstick. Egads, why did they even mention that in there./.?? That is SO confusing...
So in my case, since I pumped the oil out through the dipstick tube, it means that my pump intake tube is only getting as far down as the low point on the dipstick which is why I could only add the 1.4 quarts to top it off.. They must have put some kind of a barrier in there to prevent a tube being inserted into the bottom of the sump. I've never had the problem on any other car... So now I'll have to get underneath and remove the drain plug.. Rats!!!

nippononly · May 2003

the steel rims are also 16" for Matrix. There are no 15" rims for this car.

dmundy: Toyota is notorious for leaving obsolete information on its website temporarily while it updates part of it. Since that "red" description is in the text of "what the car offers", I am hoping they just have not gone to the trouble of re-writing the text yet. If they are white for the '04 year, I will pay to retrofit mine. If they truly do stay red, oh well. I still love the car!

hurler: I recently had a Matrix loaner from my dealer while mine was being serviced, manufactured last month, and the twilight sensor in there was the revised part, so they are probably not being manufactured with the old part any more. Makes sense, because they are replacing the old one for free on all cars, and they would want to avoid that expense as much as possible by going to the new part ASAP in manufacture, I would think.

nippononly · May 2003

"Car Talk" on NPR this weekend had a caller who was a woman that had just purchased a Matrix six weeks ago and didn't like it any more! :-(

She had traded in her '91 Honda Civic hatchback for it. I think the Matrix is so much bigger than that Honda, she just had a hard time adjusting to having all the space she needed!

I think the Matrix is a little deceptive from outside - it looks like a small hatchback, but once you get inside you realize it has almost as much room for people and stuff as a full-size wagon. It would be VERY different going from a '91 Civic hatch to this car.

microrepair · May 2003

nippononly
What is this about? I don't recall seeing this discussed here earlier...

orangelebaron · May 2003

I wonder if Toyota fixed the lousy steering wheel position/driving postion for 2004? Sorry...but I did not appreciate the fact that in order to drive a Matrix/Vibe...my arms would have to be stretched out way ahead of me.
A shame because it's a well thought out car otherwise.

nippononly · May 2003

yes, lots of people have posted with this issue of strange driving position, not only in Matrix, but in Corolla as well (related models, so no surprise there).

I don't really get it, because for me it is very comfortable, but it seems that if Toyota added telescoping ability to the steering wheel (like Focus has), it would solve most people's problems with this design. I wish it were also a telescoping wheel - that would be just plain cool! :-)

I have seen nothing to indicate that Toyota is doing this, however. :-(

microrepair: some people with early-production Matrixes had a problem, as I had, that the lights would flick on and off all day long, even in bright sunshine, because the twilight sensor thought it was dark out! Toyota issued a TSB and replaced all the affected cars' twilight sensor with a much more sensitive one, and they are building all the new cars since Christmas with the new sensor, so the problem has gone away.

Unfortunately, people with Vibes did not receive such good product support from Pontiac, which has done nothing to fix this problem for them.

hurler4 · May 2003

So it seems like these are the common problems with the Matrix from 2003:
(1) auto lights (fixed for 2004)
(2) hard-to-read gauges
(3) steering wheel too far away
(4) glare from chrome rings (can be removed and painted or shaded with markers)
(5) slippery cargo area (do they have a mat for the back of the rear seats)?

It will be interesting to see if they do anything with (2). I doubt they would fix (3), unfortunately. Were there any other bugs that people found? I heard somewhere that it is VERY difficult to replace either the headlights or taillights. Not sure if this is true...

Like I said before, I really want to like this car, but if I have to, I'll end up with the Protege5 (more comfortable driving position, easy-to-read gauges, etc.). Plus they are selling in the Boston area for over $4000 off! :-)

nippononly · May 2003

Pro5 is in its last year right now, which should make it a ripping bargain...Matrix is only in its second, so the dealers will be less eager to make bargain deals, I would imagine.

The chrome rings are a very intentional stylistic element of the Matrix, so I doubt Toyota will change those in this generation of Matrix. I have not had the problem reading the gauges that some have, but I take it that if they made the gauges a lighter color, retaining the "optitron" backlight, it would fix this? Sometimes I really like the red (it is kind of like BMWs gauges), sometimes not.

They have telescoping steering wheels on some of their models - they could probably add it to the Matrix for an MSRP increase of $100 or less.

hurler4 · May 2003

nippononly, you think about $100, give or take, for a telescoping steering wheel? Even if it were $500, I'd consider it, since it take care of the biggest problem I have with the Matrix. Maybe I'll talk to a dealer about this...

Hopefully some 2004s will be in showrooms soon, since I really would like to buy a new car by the end of this month...

Luzer · May 2003

$2000 back
+ $150 Upromise
+ GM Card rebate (for existing credit card holders who have "earned the 5% over the years)

maxx4me · May 2003

Can you wait a bit longer on your purchase? As a Vibe AWD owner, I can honestly say that if my 626 broke down today, I'd go buy another Vibe. However, I do agree with you regarding the lack of telescoping steering wheel. No, the bulbs are not hard to replace, only the lenses (see post on Vibe and Matrix repair page). The reason I asked the first question, is because I am waiting for the new Malibu Maxx to come out. While it will be 5 inches shorter than the Vibe, and it only will come with a 6 cylinder engine, it seems to solve all my other concerns with my Vibe; as a result, I am holding out until September when it is supposed to go into production in KC. I just want to make sure you have check Edmunds' future vehicles, and are aware of all the goodies coming out in the near future. Good luck.

stillageek · May 2003

I have a Matrix and can state these bulbs (headlight and foglight) are the easiest to change of the 6 cars I have owned. I have huge hands and easily took out all bulbs for replacement. I swapped all with Sylvania Silverstars. They are brighter than stock (no significant higher wattage) and produce pure white light (not the annoying bright glaring light of some blubs). I even replaced the foglights by reaching down while standing up.

montanafan · May 2003

According to the press release of April 17th at http://media.gm.com , the Malibu Maxx is 16" longer then the Vibe (187.9" vs 171.9") not 5" shorter. And both the new Malibus come full of new technology and features. It will be interesting to see pricing.

maxx4me · May 2003

You need to think out of the box Montana. The Maxx is 5 inches shorter. Think height man, height!!

hurler4 · May 2003

...I'd consider the Maxx if it came with a stick shift. I'm hearing it won't.

I'll probably get a 2004 Matrix, although a dealer near me (in Boston) is selling a new 2003 Vibe GT for $4200 off, no gimmicks! That's better than the Protege5 at $4050 off!

Luzer · May 2003

So the Maxx is 16" longer and 5" lower than the Vibe...

shorter is to longer as
higher is to lower...

ah SAT's, the days of utes.
(what's a ute?)

montanafan · May 2003

Box has been adjusted.

maxx4me · May 2003

he, he, he...that's why I failed college!! I have never owned a 6 cylinder before. Nonetheless, from what I've researched, the Maxx looks great in comparison to the Vibe. I will scrutinize the height however, since I love how I can just leap into the Vibe. The 5 inches lower will be the biggest concern of mine until the Maxx's debut in September.

kendrex · May 2003

The toyota "build it yourself" is offering a MOMO special edition option on the 2004s. What's MOMO?
Also what should rear tinted windows cost? My local dealer wants $700.

lngtonge18 · May 2003

Momo is an aftermarket accessory company. More than likely the momo special edition would include a momo shift knob, momo pedals, and maybe a momo steering wheel.

As far as the tint goes, your dealer is royally screwing you!! Tinted windows should not cost more than $200 for the entire car.

nippononly · May 2003

of the new TRD package for the '04, and it looks vicious. The rims are smoked alloys, 18 or 19". I don't know if the S/C is part of the package though. It was in a print ad in a magazine.

montanafan · May 2003

Which magazine? It will allow me to cruise the racks while my wife food shops tonight.

hurler4 · May 2003

Has anyone seen the 2004 Matrix yet? I'm curious about those gauges...

It's strange that no Pontiac dealer seems to know when the 2004 Vibe is coming out. Wouldn't they come out at about the same time?

montanafan · May 2003

Every Pontiac dealer knows that production started May 5th, they ordered cars, cars are built and on the way. Every GM dealer also has a power point presentation with a small picture on the new Vibe dash that dosen't show enough details. Now does every salesman (whoes job is to sell the 2003s on the ground) know, of course not.

rickg7462 · May 2003

The "Matrix" emblem was scraped off of my car sometime in the last three days. I was guessing it had something to do with the movie coming out Thursday, but I could be reading to much into that. Has anyone else had a problem like this?

hurler4 · May 2003

...I think you just convinced me to buy a Vibe! ;-D Hopefully there won't be any movies called "Vibe" coming out soon!

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason. I can't recall anyone ever having an emblem taken off their car! Hopefully this isn't the start of some nutty trend...

nippononly · May 2003

is intact, as of lunchtime today...

montanafan: I don't remember now, I am so sorry! I think it might have been the June MT. The car was yellow. Its looks instantly dusted those of my car, which up until now I thought looked just right! But then, cars always look better in pictures.

Toyota Matrix

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