Toyota Matrix

nippononly · May 2003

Autoweek just ran a big section on SEMA tuner stuff, and TRD had a display which included the supercharger for the base corolla and Matrix engines. It boosts hp to 172. (Apparently you can install it in the celica GT too, but on that car the stock hood won't close, whereas on the other cars it will). There was no price listed - it was just a little blurb. It is clearly available, why is it impossible to find out about on-line? I am just going to have to call the 800 number and order the catalog.

johnclineii · May 2003

Why is it impossible to find on line? Probably because they want to talk to you in person and get you excited before they tell you how much it costs!

stillageek · May 2003

I believe the supercharger will be $3500-$4000 installed. Pontiac will have one also for the Vibe. Pontiac has info on the accessory site for the vibe. TRD has nada so far. Apparently since it's dealer installed they will warranty the supercharger and it won't affect the basic or powertrain warranty at all. I think torque also rises to 165-180 lbs ft. Too bad it's for the base engine only.

hurler4 · May 2003

Here is the scoop on the gauges for the 2004 Matrix: They are still red, but have more white illumination for 2004. It looks like the gauges may be a bit closer to those of the 2003 Corolla (although those gauges are more blue, I believe). Thank God Toyota listened to people. Now if only they could add a telescoping steering wheel...

ed_scott0013 · May 2003

Quote: nippononly
Autoweek just ran a big section on SEMA tuner stuff, and TRD had a display which included the supercharger for the base corolla and Matrix engines.

I know the Matrix has two (the 130 and 180 horsepower engines), but is there any engine in the Corolla other than the base engine?

nippononly · May 2003

I was just combining words there...base engine for Matrix, ONLY engine for corolla!

Word on the gauges is, they have illuminated the odo/outside temperature section in the '04 with white light instead of red, but the gauges themselves are still a deep red...I can live with it. If they came out with a white gauge pack like corolla I would pay to retrofit it, but the little odo section is not worth the trouble!

ed_scott0013 · May 2003

No prob. I kinda suspected that, but maybe there was some crazy engine option somewhere that I haven't heard of yet.

Anyway, I think the supercharger would be a neat idea, but we'll have to wait and see what TRD has to say regarding availability and pricing.

nippononly · May 2003

it will be around $4000 including installation, and word is that if installed by a Toyota dealer it does not affect the existing warranties on the car in any way. Plus the S/C itself is warranted for 12K miles, or something like that.

It is tempting for those of us (like me) that thought the power band of the XRS engine is just too narrow...this will bring almost the same hp gain, but with a corresponding torque gain at lower rpms.

pda97 · May 2003

If TRD charges over $3K for this item, then I'm buying a Jetta 1.8T. By the time you add the S/C to your Matrix, the price climbs to about $19K (if not more). The Jetta 1.8T costs less when similarly equipped and has the potential to make even more power. So performance-wise, the TRD S/C is unlikely to be a good value. And I don't want to deal with the uncertainty over engine longevity since the Matrix engine wasn't designed for "forced induction" to begin with.

gregoriusm · May 2003

Hurler4 (and others):

You mentioned you'll probably buy the Matrix instead of the Vibe.

Can you tell me why?

I'm having a very hard time with this for basically only a few reasons (I'll be buying a 2004 Matrix or Vibe):

1) In Canada, if you want ABS brakes on the 2004 Matrix, you have to buy an entire option package at $2000 CAD that includes the moonroof (I don't want one), fog lamps and 17" wheels (I had already settled on buying a 2004 Corolla because I couldn't afford a 2004 Sienna, but then decided the Matrix would fill the bill for my "utility" needs, so I don't want any rougher a ride than the move from the 195/15's of the Corolla LE to the 205/16's of the Matrix XR).

I WANT ABS BRAKES and fog lamps, but I DON'T WANT A ROUGHER RIDE and a moonroof! But, I do want the Toyota nameplate and the cleaner looks.

2) The Vibe has the foglamps already built in and ABS w/side curtain airbags is an $1135 option. We don't get side curtain airbags as an option on the Matrix.

3) The Vibe has a built-in roof rack - I'm leary that it will cause wind noise at all times, whether I need it or not (although I can see me using it for trips).

4) You can only get the 6 speaker stereo on the XRS (I want to drive an automatic and don't need the 180 HP).

5) Resale value of Pontiac vs. Toyota.

6) I like the cladding on lower area and wheel wheels of the Pontiac, but don't want to pay an extra $1100 to have them match the rest of the car. They come in gray if you don't pay the premium. I also wonder if all that cladding helps with lessening rust or actually increases the chance of rust because you can't get behind the cladding to clean the steel areas, and those areas may not dry out as quickly. I live in the center of Canada where we have lots of snow and road salt, etc.

That's about it. I think the Toyota service will be better than the Pontiac dealerships.

So, I guess my question is this again, for those of you who bought the base or XR, why did you buy the Toyota and not the Vibe?

Thanks for any and all of your comments!

... Greg

gregoriusm · May 2003

Were any of you considering the Corolla before deciding on the Matrix?

If so, what were you decisions for choosing the Matrix XR over the Corolla LE (for comparison purposes)?

Are you happy with your decision?

Thanks!

... Greg

nippononly · May 2003

the engine block of the matrix/corolla is the same as in the XRS/celica GTS - it is a strong unit designed for high-rev use.

Plus, TRD had a S/C kit for the previous corolla for several years, which used the same block.

Plus I much prefer S/C to turbo in general, and I would not want to deal with all the bugaboos that crop up with Jettas. I've got a Toyota dealer I like for service.

nippononly · May 2003

I bought Matrix and did not consider Vibe because of the cladding and the Pontiac depreciation, not to mention poor dealer service (in my previous experience). But I think if looks are all that are in it, then it is pure preference which one you go with. I also don't like roof racks. Mechanically they are the same.

Some notes in reference to what you wrote:
(1) In california ABS comes as a stand-alone option if you like, and I have seen cars on the lots equipped this way (I didn't get it - don't like it)
(2) side airbags are also a stand-alone option on all grades of Matrix here
(4) you can get the 6-speaker stereo upgrade any time you want on any Matrix, if not as a factory option, then as a dealer accessory.
(5) resale of Toyota beats that of Pontiac
(6) cladding is good to have if you live in an area with lots of gravel and snow/mud in winter...

maxx4me · May 2003

Folks, I know I keep all my cars until the flames have actually entered into the driving compartment, but why on earth would you ever worry about resale???? That is the worst arguement I have ever heard. A recent article put the Honda Accord at the top of the list for resale value after 4 years. It paid back 48% of its original value. If you guys are willing to throw your money away like that, I need to get in on the deal. If I consistantly put $20,000 into the stock market and after 4 years, it gave me $9,000 back, I think I'd jump out a window. I think everyone should do as much research into a car prior to buying it. It is good you are asking questions on edmunds and such; but why sell a car so quickly when either you A) put a ton of research into getting it in the first place; or

you fell madly in love with the car and just had to have it in the first place. There are plenty of KIA and Hyundai dealers out there. They make OK cars with great warranties. Don't ever buy an expensive car if you are concerned about resale value!

halowse · May 2003

Picking up my new 2004 MATRIX XR AWD (Indig0) on Friday. Woo-hoo!

hurler4 · May 2003

I haven't quite ruled out the Vibe yet, but am leaning toward the Matrix, mostly for the reasons that nippononly brought up. I hear the roof rack on the Vibe does add noise. Also, the Toyota will definitely hold its value better. But it really is a tossup. I'd say go with whatever car you think has better styling.

Couple of other reasons to pick the Matrix over the Vibe:
1) The Matrix comes with a cassette and a CD, which is important to me because I can use the cassette deck to listen to my MP3 player.
2) Some say that the visibility from inside the Matrix is a little better because of the slightly different styling.
3) The Vibe is a bit more expensive, and since some Toyota dealers are willing to sell the 2004 at only a little over invoice, it seems that the Matrix is a better deal considering that its value will hold up better.

revka · May 2003

Hi Folks - Regarding the Vibe vs the Matrix, you may also want to check out this discussion: Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts - Compare Notes. Also, feel free to copy/paste your recent posts, comparing the two, into this discussion. Others passing through there will appreciate your notes. Thanks!

To halowse - Congratulations! We look forward to hearing about your delivery experience.... Happy motoring!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

mikus · May 2003

These are different cars -- a hatchback and a sedan. The better VW analog would be Golf 1.8T 5-door which I wanted to buy, but VW was producing it for only about one year, so one cannot get a new one now. VW is stupid enough to keep this engine for Golf GTI only, because it is a "sporty" 3-door car (at least this what I was told on the LA car show). Now, if my info is correct, they pulled 1.8T from wagon as well. How "sporty" is Jetta then, I wonder? It is just a plain boring sedan.

Considering Matrix: Yamaha engine is good and high-revving, but a car of this weight need more low-end torque. Will wait till 2.0 high-rev engine or will go for WRX wagon. Still undecided... But I have enough time to think this over, my Camry is simply bulletproof.

kris0877 · May 2003

I've had my 5 speed Matrix for 4 weeks now and just filled in second tank of gas. What a nice surprise - 6.4 l/100km (44 UK mpg or 37 US mpg) 90% city driving, warm, some AC. The first tank wasn't that good but still well better than the sticker numbers.
It's still in breaking-in (1200 km) so I don't step on gas to hard. No rattle noises, no rotten egg smell, no problems at all. Plenty of power when needed (manual transmission). Happy to have it, it's my first new car, and first Toyota.

hurler4 · May 2003

...after a long, hard search for a car, I finally bought a 2004 Matrix XR 5-speed (Black/Charcoal) with everything but ABS and side airbags. I ordered it from the factory for 2% above invoice, so it came to about $17,000 plus tax. I checked out the new gauges--they look really nice!

Couple of questions:
1) I noticed that a leather steering wheel cover and shifter weren't listed as options. Was anyone able to get these as an option on their Matrix?
2) I got a cargo mat with mine, but am wondering if there is a mat for the rest of the cargo floor when you put the seats down (ie. a mat for the back of the rear seat).

Thanks for any info!

nippononly · May 2003

having a mat for the back of the rear seats, but where would you put it when the seats were up? I guess you would just stack it on top of the existing cargo mat?

stillageek · May 2003

The leather shifter and steering wheel are standard only on the XRS. I saw the new gauges also, they are better with white numbers but worse with the dials, kinda hard to tell where the redline is. All in all, I would swap them with mine....maybe.

phankane · May 2003

At reasonably high speed, around 80. The Matrix feels fairly unstable. I wish I bought the CRV. It is definitely better value for money.

oac3 · May 2003

Are you serious or joking ? What model do you have ? Xcuse me, 80mph is not "reasonable high speed", that is normal freeway speed here in So Cal. I have had my XR (auto) up to 100 mph and it felt solid as a rock, maybe a little light, but nothing dangerously unstable about it.

Oh, talking about my Matrix, I can only dream about it now. Why ? While on a trip to Europe last week, the wife crashed it into a pole inside our garage. My daughter left a rear door wide open to quickly run inside the house to pick up something she forgot, my wife didn't check her mirrors, put the car in reverse, and with a wide open door slammed into the pillar in the garage. The door was almost yanked off its hinges upon impact.

Cost = $2100 (out the door)
Deductible = $500 (sucks)

Cost of a new door = $495, the rest is labor + whatever else the body shop could throw in since it is covered by insurance.

It will take about a month before it will be done. New model car, parts hard to get from factory/supplier, yada yada yada... according to body shop.... I can say it has been quite tough dealing with the loss of my little hatchback. I've grown so fond of the car, that I am actually having withdrawal symptoms. The Matrix is such a fun car, and I know I speak for all owners on this. I cannot wait for the day it comes back healed of its sickness

Oh, the new red-white gauge on the '04 doesn't do it for me. I prefer the all red '03 version. It glows beautifully at night, just like the Bimmer gauges. I live in So Cal, and haven't had any problem with glare or reflections people are complaining about. Oh well.... everyone to their own taste....

maxx4me · May 2003

I agree the CRV is a great choice. Unfortunately, they are built for 5'5'' people. The seats also are uncomfortable. They have no side support, which makes for a difficult long drive. Bottom line: if you are short, there are a lot of great choices out there. For the normal sized 6'1'' person, car makers (other than Chrysler) still don't get it. The Vibe/Matrix is within 1/2 inch of being perfect for me in the driver's position (except for it not having a telescoping steering). As for being best for the money, I still think the Vibe AWD takes the cake. I'd find out what is wrong with your car at 80 mph (alignment, tires). I have been up there many times, and the car hums along just fine.

zombo · May 2003

is why I bought one (at 6'3") instead of a Celica,which only had enough headroom by reclining the seat way back.The head room in a car in this class is awesome!I wish Toyota would go back to putting in a telescoping steering wheel on their cars with cruise control,like they did on the 86-89 Celicas.Those also had real tilt wheels,not the adjustable steering columns they call tilt wheels today.My XR 5 speed is also rock solid at freeway speeds.

nippononly · May 2003

we can call this a genuine consensus: EVERYONE wants Toyota to put a telescoping wheel back in its cars, a la Ford Focus (and a couple of Toyota models in years past). I sure wouldn't mind...as long as it added less than $100 to the price of the car...

phankane · May 2003

"it felt solid as a rock", if you and your family used to swing on branches of tree then it is quite understandable.

Please keep in mind that Matrix was designed for young, lean people.

oac3 · May 2003

You wrote this, amongst many of your erudite words, in post #2022:

"... you and your family ... swing on branches ...."

"... Matrix was designed for young, lean people"

I am going to assume you were under the influence when you wrote this post. With this assumption, I am simply going to say: Sorry to disappoint you, but mine is rock solid on any highway speed up to 100mph. I know this for certain FOR MY MATRIX. I have "aired" mine out on So Cal freeways to test this. Maybe not for yours... Someone suggested maybe your tires or alignment may be the issue. Let me add balancing of your tires to the list of possible culprits ... Have you checked these things out on your Trix ?

Now, let's see your next post....Hmmmm....

nippononly · May 2003

smooth up to 100 mph as well. If you are used to driving a very heavy car or truck previously, I guess Matrix might feel a little light at those speeds, but that is just a frame of reference thing. You will get used to it! It is very steady and predictable even at high speeds.

montanafan · May 2003

One issue that has come up with Vibes, is that the cars are shipped with the tire pressures very high and need to be lowered at delivery. High tire pressure could effect the ride/handling. Perhaps you might check there.

wfriend · May 2003

I just purchased a 2003 XR 5 speed.The dealer said the engine is a new design and that oil changes are only required every 5000 miles instead of 3000. This is helpful when you put 28,000 miles a year on a car but everything I ever read about oil says to change it every 3000 miles. Your comments are appreciated.

petl · May 2003

We've had our 4WD XR for 1 year. It too, is rock solid on the highway. It may not be as quiet or as quick as my 2002 Camry XLE but it is an extremely solid performer with acceptable performance. It sure has more character. Incidentally, the recent Consumer Reports rates the Matrix 4WD ahead of the CRV in its overall comparison test. Only the Forester and the RAV are ranked higher. The bottom line is... the Matrix is a great alternative to an SUV. It can accommodate 4 adults comfortably, its flexible interior is second to none, gas mileage is great (compared to the other vehicles in this category), it is less expensive to insure and it is the least expensive vehicle in the test group. I am over 50 years old and no one in my family swings from trees. Too bad, it might have kept us away from the snakes on the ground.

nippononly · May 2003

I don't think the engine has changed in any appreciable way that has influenced oil change intervals...this engine has been around in its basic form since 1997...and Toyota's published oil change intervals have been 5K miles since earlier than that, almost a decade now...

I have always felt 5K is a fine oil change interval, with no ill effects so far, and that is what I practice on the Matrix too...

petl: so I am curious, what is your average mpg with the AWD?

microrepair · June 2003

Hmm, my XR does just fine at 75-80 mph. Sure it doesn't feel heavy and solid like a Mercedes (I have one of those too) but is certainly does not feel unstable.

If this car was designed for the young and lean, Toyota missed it's mark completely. I am well over fifty and well over 200 pounds and well over 6 foot tall. I marvel at how comfortable I am in the XR. Keep in mind that the XR has a height adjustment for the driver's seat. The base model does not.

And it is fun to drive; as someone a few notes ago said, "It has character."

phankane · June 2003

I was wrong in assumming that some people are still living on trees.
And I also wrong to assume that Trix is for young people.
With the accummulation of baggage of life over the years. It really helps the stability due to lowering of center of gravity.

I will put few sandbags on my Trix I guess..hehe

herzogtum71 · June 2003

My dealer recommends changing the oil every 3,750 miles.

nippononly · June 2003

taken their non-XRS over 100 mph? How high will it go? I need to take a road trip someplace where there is minimal law enforcement and miles of open highways with little traffic (I am thinking, Nevada!) and see what it can do. But I would love to hear of anyone who has already tried it out.

pulgo · June 2003

Your dealer is after your money. He wants to see you often and sell you unnecessary services.
Let me suggest the following. Change your oil with a good synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil.
Then use that oil for at least 7.5k miles and then do an oil analysis.
I know, this is a little bit much and expensive for most people, but if you do it at least once the oil analysis results will tell you what the correct oil change interval with your usage pattern is. From then on you don't need expensive analyses any more.

hurler4 · June 2003

Has anyone had any problems with the high beltline in the Matrix? I've been reading several reviews on the Matrix and most of them complain about a lack of visibility in the rear because of the small windows. And they say people in the back seat can really feel boxed in.

Is the beltline about the same height in the Vibe?

nippononly · June 2003

identical in this respect (Vibe and Matrix).

Anyone who has owned a current gen celica (as I have) will never think anything else EVER has limited visibility!! Matrix has good visibility as far as I am concerned. The rear seat is very spacious with big windows and doors, and when I have sat there, I have never felt anything remotely like "boxed in". It is the best rear seat of any of the four-door hatches currently available.

oac3 · June 2003

Honestly, my top speed has not exceeded 100mph YET

My test roads were the freeways abundant here in So Cal. I am not sure Nevada is that generous, maybe you want to try Montana ?? Let me know how the "experimentation" goes. I sure will like an opportunity to further "re-test" the Trix beyond its elements....

phankane: you are sure resilient. Always willing to sling shots at people. Please yourself, but be ready to take shots too. It goes both ways. Hopefully, you'll just go away and get rid of that Trix of yours cos it's no good for you. You being young, lean and all.... and many of us owners being old, fat, and tall and laden with excess "... baggage of life ..."

Life is fun, some just can't seem to find a way to enjoy it !

maxx4me · June 2003

oac: I did 100 for the first time (twice) in my life in Nevada heading from San Diego to Las Vegas. The state police escorted all of us at 85. While I made my wife nervous, I figured there was plenty of desert to pull off into should I have a blow out or emergency.

nippononly · June 2003

that while Matrix does not exactly zip up past the 90 mph mark, it DOES have a lot more to give north of that speed, albeit at a slow rate of increase...I like Nevada because it has stretches of 50 miles at a time that are perfectly straight with no entry or exit points...good if you really want to stretch your legs! :-)

matthew525 · June 2003

Speed, the nature of excitement. Having driven 245KPH on German autobahns in a BMW525i, you just get a rush - - even for the over 40 crowd. Driven my XRS 95+ on I95 on the way to DC. Thankfully the local posse wasn't around. Stable and fun but not quite the rush as in Germany. Just a friendly reminder, minor driving mistakes are exponentially magnified by greater speeds.

pulgo · June 2003

Are you sure that was 245? According to the German BMW website the top speed is 238.

matthew525 · June 2003

Having lived their from 82-88, I can tell you that I often got passed by 600 and 700 series BMW, Porches, and even motorcycles. I was back there for vacation in 00 and didn't see anything of the sort. Yet, my friends who visit there often have told me that they've slowed things down near the cities and it would not surprise me that they've capped the top speeds. One of the draw backs of when the wall fell. Sacrifices must be made.

phankane · June 2003

I was only teasing, don't take it too personally.
Trix is a decent box.

mpg5 · June 2003

considering purchase of an XRS, but mildly concerned with lack of low end torque. does anyone have performance numbers and/or cost of supercharger installed. also, how bad are these dash rattles that seem to be cropping up in matrix's, and are they fixed by dealer? rattles on new cars tend to drive me crazy. especially when the dealer can't seem to hear them when in for service (murphy's law, perhaps?). thanks in advance.

nippononly · June 2003

numbers I saw for the TRD supercharger kit was $3815, with output of 172 bhp. You can figure on five to six hours of install time at local rates, whatever they are in your area, and depending on where you take it. (I believe that if you want the vehicle warranty not to be voided, you have to have a Toyota dealer install it, but you should check me on that - TRD will have the info if you contact them directly or go look at trdusa.com).

As far as rattles, I still get the occasional vibration or buzz coming and going, nothing persistent any more, and the dealer fixed the two I had that WERE persistent. If this is a big problem for you, and you decide to buy the Matrix, you should take out the ACTUAL CAR you will be purchasing for a long test drive with the radio off, and listen carefully for anything that might bother you.

Toyota Matrix

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles