Toyota Matrix

deg856 · June 2004

A hundred miles after the last fill-up my gas needle is still above the F mark  this means about 3 gallons are hidden above F. People typically think there are about 2 gallons left after the needle goes below E as a safety reserve. The total capacity of the tank is 13.2 gal, so if 3 are above F and 2 are below E, then there are only about 8 gal between F and E. I know why they do this, but still wish they made the gauge reading more linear to show the true quantity of gas in the tank.

nippononly · June 2004

one thing Matrix needs to do with the next gen is break away from Corolla and become its own model. I mean, after all Matrix has more wind resistance and a few hundred pounds on the Corolla - it SHOULD have its own powertrain for base models.

Even Corolla will have to jump up a bit in the next iteration - all of its major competitors except Civic are above 140 hp now.

vincentwang · June 2004

I'm planning to purchase a Jetta Wagon TDI with 5M, and I test drive it for two times, I like the German quality and safty.
But today I cheked out that 05Matrix made some improvement and avaliable soon, I would like to test one and see how's going. Cause as a full-loaded XR, it still will be couple thousands cheaper.
All I need is a city wagon, and have good MPG, safe and perform great in like 5 years. I do worry a little about the maintance of diesel engin. So, what's your guys opinion? Appreciated.

steine13 · June 2004

Well, Vincent,
Most of guys here on the 'trix group will feel, and I'm sure of this, that you should go with the VW. In part because your initials match...

Seriously, though, these are two different animals. Drive both, see what you like. The only way I'd get the TDI is if I were doing well over 20k per year, or I REALLY wanted a Diesel. The Matrix is more plasticky and louder, you sit higher, it'll be much more reliable, and I don't know which ones is more fun to drive.

I like both, but the only thing they have in common is the hatch and the 5speed....

-Mathias

capitano · June 2004

The Jetta has the prettier interior, but its reliability will pale in comparison to the matrix.

nippononly · June 2004

a Jetta wagon will have more room inside than the Matrix, which is pretty roomy in its own right. I haven't been in one, but those Jetta wagons look big.

The Matrix will be a LOT more fun. If that matters. Also cheaper to operate (virtually zero-maintenance) and most likely won't need a repair you are on the hook for in five years.

I'll echo steine also: Matrix will be a bit louder, more plasticky, and you sit higher. It also has the advantage that wherever you stop for gas, the station actually sells the kind you need. Unlike diesel.

steine13 · June 2004

...is nowhere near as roomy as the 'trix in the back seat. Seat is low, room is fairly tight. The cargo area is much bigger than the Matrix, though.
-Mathias

herzogtum71 · June 2004

Earlier this spring (before I bought a 4-cylinder Highlander) I briefly considered the Jetta when I was looking to replace my old '94 Corolla wagon. The Jetta's cargo area is slightly larger than the old Corolla wagon behind the rear seat, but slightly smaller with the rear seat folded down. The Matrix is indeed much smaller behind the rear seat -- maybe as much as 5 cubic feet.

I didn't pursue the Jetta after I found out that you can't buy them in Massachusetts. You can't even register a new one here if you buy it out of state. If you have one already and move here, then you have to apply for a waiver. All this should change in a couple of years when the cleaner diesel fuel is required in the USA.

The Matrix has much better passenger room in both front and back, and it gets better gas mileage. (Even my Highlander gets better gas mileage than the Jetta, and it runs on regular gas.) And in terms of reliability, I wouldn't consider a gasoline powered Jetta after reading the Edmunds forum on those vehicles. The Matrix does better than the Jetta in crash tests, too.

nippononly · June 2004

the HL and Matrix get better gas mileage than the diesel Jetta TDI? I believe that is the other vehicle being considered. I think the TDI's fuel economy is in hybrid territory.

Yes, the back seat of the Matrix is super-spacious when compared to its peers.

vincentwang · June 2004

Thanks folks. Already sit in the Matrix today, and can't feel comfortable in the driver seat, so I didn't take a test drive. And I found out the traction control and ESP, EBD are all unavailable on Matrix, which are standard and option on Jetta. So I will put this out of my list.

capitano · June 2004

2005 Matrix has traction control available on the XR autos. Did you specify you wanted a manual transmission?

The seating position gets a lot of comments in reviews. I am 5'11" and it suits me just fine.

herzogtum71 · June 2004

Don't put words in my mouth. The diesel Jetta gets great mileage, but it's not an option for those of us living in New England or California. There is nothing spectacular about the fuel economy of the gasoline-powered Jetta.

nippononly · June 2004

no intention here of stuffing words in anyone's mouth. I just meant that in the original comparison to which I thought you were responding, that person was comparing with a Jetta diesel.

The gas Jetta is particularly unimpressive for fuel economy and has been for some time. Too heavy for the small engines being used in it, I think.

Isn't EBD standard with Matrix if you opt for the ABS? And isn't it weird that the $14K Scion xB has standard traction control, but the $16K Matrix does not? Never thought about that until just now...

deg856 · June 2004

2004 XR auto FWD. 3265 mi total. 389.5 mi on last tank. 11.893 gal fill up. -> 32.75 mpg.

tnlandsailor · June 2004

I recently bought a 2003 XRS 6-speed with a March 2002 manufacture date. Since this was built so early in the model year, are there some TSB's I should be looking for in particular? I haven't noticed anything yet, just want to take care of the things that are covered under warranty.

Does anyone know how to disconnect that ANNOYING reverse beep? Also, I would love to disconnect the passenger side seat belt indicator. Sometimes I'll set stuff in the passenger seat that is just heavy enough to activate it. It's also very annoying.

nippononly · June 2004

a TSB for the twilight sensor, which was not well-dsigned initially and would flick the headlights on and off all the time. If your lights are doing this, you may need to get the twilight sensor exchanged for the new one (free under the TSB).

capitano · June 2004

I don't mind the reverse beep. I've gotten quite used to it.

Likewise the passenger seatbelt indicator doesn't bother me and though I put stuff on the seat all the time, it has only activated one time when I did so. It does seem to go off after a while.

I think there may have been another TSB or two after the twilight sensor. Dash rattles, and perhaps the center console bin door I think. Maybe.

tnlandsailor · June 2004

I don't notice the headlights/dash lights flickering. It's hard to tell in the daylight. Perhaps mine was one of the few that actually worked?

Same thing with the squeaks and rattles. My last car (91 Civic Si) was so full of them by the time I got rid of it that the Matrix is virtually silent by comparison.

After 2 months of owning this car, I can say without hesitation that is the best car I've ever owned. It's surprisingly speedy, the lift in first and second gear and revving to 8000+ RPM is so adicting it's hard hold back. Inside, the thing is cavernous and holds just about anything you'd want to haul. The seats are very comfortable and I can tolerate 500 mile car rides without that gotta-get-outta-this-car-right-now feeling that I used to get after a couple of hours in the Honda. If they ever decided to turbocharge this thing and boost it to 225 hp or so and give it some low end torque, I would likely call it the perfect car. But until that day comes, I'm extremely satisfied with the way it is now.

nippononly · June 2004

might have already had the TSB performed. The dash has a little indicator light when the headlights are on. If you haven't noticed it going on and off, I am sure you have the updated sensor.

The XRS is a hoot. This same engine (with some minor tweaks) is now in use in the new Lotus Elise, which has programmed it to go on the high-lift cam at a somewhat lower rpm, and to transition in a more smooth manner. I wish Toyota would do the same for its own cars!

maverick04 · June 2004

There is a TSB for your year of Matrix for the O2 sensor - not all of the cars all of the time...some of the cars have stalled. I believe I read about the TSB on this site under either used car or car reviews...hope this helps.

oac · June 2004

How much is that Lotus Elise now ? Like $40K, right ??? The price difference alone makes it unlikely for Toyota to tweak the 2ZZ engine as in the Elise. Rather, I hope they can bring in (wishful thinking, I know) the I6 in the Alteeza/IS300 to provide that low end grunt at 225+bhp. Add in a suspension tweak here or there, and you get the Alteeza, the US model. I know, I know... not apples to apples, and not gonna happen, BUT one can wish ???

nippononly · June 2004

well, every time Toyota puts the 2ZZ in a new model they tweak it a little, so one can hope, eh?! :-)

While I would absolutely LOVE to see the old Supra engine in a car like the Matrix, it is ancient-tech at this point. Emissions are too high for the new millennium, and fuel economy is terrible.

At their heart, I feel models like the Matrix and Corolla XRS are supposed to be go-fast economy wagons/sedans, and there is not much "economy" about an 18/25 EPA rating! :-P

Now, the Scion tC gives me hope. If there is a next-gen Matrix (and I truly hope there will be), I am betting they will drop the Camry 2.4 in it, which should be good for 170 hp or so by then. They could then give the XRS the S/C version of this engine, with nice low-end torque and 210 hp or so on tap. I imagine fuel economy of all versions would drop a little, but it would be worth it for the power you get.

thel · June 2004

I think that the XRS has plenty of power...and I even have the wussy 04 version with a few less hp than the 03 LOL! Any more power and there is no way I could tolerate all of the torque steer, especially on cornering. The torque-steer and understeer I get now is bad enough!

Now...if only I could get my XRS motor into my 1990 Miata!!!

nippononly · June 2004

what that engine would do in a 2000-pounder like a '90 Miata? I would like to see it. That is almost the same power-to-weight ratio as the Elise I was mentioning above.

yes, you have mentioned a salient point: the Matrix is a FWDer and with too much power the wheel might become a handful. Still if Honda can stuff 250 hp engines in FWD sedans, Toyota could probably make that work out if it tried.

OR they could do what I would like to see and make the Matrix the first Toyota model to go back to RWD - yes! :-)

thel · June 2004

Dont the high hp FWD Honda's have some sort of a traction control system to reduce the torque steer? That said, most of the car mags that compare the high hp FWD Acuras to their RWD competitors (BMW, Jaguar, etc) all comend the Acuras for doing a great job with FWD, but at the same time wondering / wishing what would happen if Acura would go to RWD.

I'd bet that Toyota would go AWD before they go RWD.....but one can only hope.

thel · June 2004

Has anyone put redline MTL into their transmission? I'm going to put some MTL into my Miata's manual transmission and shifter turret after reading all of the raves about it from fellow Miata-philes but I was wondering if anyone put it into their XRS 6-speeds and notice better shifts (particularly with the AC on).

capitano · June 2004

Not done it myself. Have read over at MO, that it improves shift smoothness.

Are you perceiving a difference in shifting with AC on?

thel · June 2004

With the AC on the car seems to "thunk" into gear rather abruptly compared to when the AC is off IMO.

I just put Redline MTL in my 90 MIata and it shifts much more smoothly, especially with the AC on...I may try it in my Matrix.

deg856 · July 2004

2004 XR auto FWD. 3663 mi total. 398.0 mi on last tank. 12.833 gal fill up. -> 31.01 mpg.

I didn't think I ran the tank that dry - I gased up about 5 miles after the yellow (low fuel) light came on - but being able to put 12.833 gal into a tank listed as 13.2 gal seemed unusual. Makes me wonder if the tank is actually larger.

capitano · July 2004

So I am filling up my XRS at the Mobil station and I am watching this guy pumping gas into his new Mustang (30 day tag still on it). I am thinking about taking a picture of his "shorts" that are clearly shorts, but come down to his ankles. He is a large fellow and I was thinking I could have some photoshop fun with his image. But then he starts speaking to me.

It's hard to understand him at first since English is not his first language. He is asking me if my car is the expensive version. I say yeah. He asks how much it was. I say $20k, neglect to mention that that was out the door. I say they can go higher with a moonroof and navigation though. He seems satisfied and says that's how much the Mustang was supposed to cost. He got it for $16.5k and the reason he got it was he could get that deal. But he says he really would have preferred having the Matrix.

He asks what my payment is and I tell him. His payment and mine are about the same. I await the follow up question about interest rates, but it doesn't come.

He tells me again that he really wanted the Matrix but that he bought the Mustang because of the deal and that's the end of the conversation.

I didn't think the markets for Mustangs and Matrices overlapped at all.

thel · July 2004

I guess if you look at a car as simply being four wheels and a manual transmission then a Mustang and the XRS are pretty much the same thing LOL!

herzogtum71 · July 2004

There was discussion of this back in the fall of 2003. When I had our Matrix in for service the first time I asked them to check to make sure the low fuel light was working because I pumped so much gas in without the light coming on, with the needle well below the E mark. On the receipt the service manager wrote that there is a reserve in the fuel tank over and above the listed capacity. Many readers in this forum were skeptical about this claim, though. BTW, we have the 4WD version with tank capacity listed at 11.9 gallons, and when the low fuel light comes on and I fill up right away, I put 11.2 to 11.4 gallons in the tank. If there really is no reserve, the 4WD would go only a dozen miles (in town driving) or so on the 1/2 gallon left in the tank after the light comes on.

deg856 · July 2004

2004 XR auto FWD with 4055 mi. 391.6 mi on last tank. 11.822 gal fill up

nippononly · July 2004

anyone got a new Mustang GT for $16.5K!

I can't imagine anyone cross-shopping the Mustang and the Matrix either. I bet the Matrix handles better in the canyons, though I am sure the Mustang is quicker off the line.

vonnyvonce · July 2004

Anyone know if the non-independant rear Matrix can/should have a rear end alignment????

nippononly · July 2004

the rear end of the Matrix is adjustable for camber, so yes, it could benefit from an alignment.

silverado: yes, ABS would add a certain measure of safety for an inexperienced driver. I don't know about the side curtains, though, with regard to the child seat. Can you put it in the middle? If so, I wouldn't worry. otherwise, I would contact Toyota USA or the manufacturer of the seat for further information before going ahead.

herzogtum71 · July 2004

We have had the 4WD Matrix since August 2002. I have experienced the ABS kicking in just twice. The first time I purposely slammed on the brakes on an ice-covered road just so I could see how they work. The second time happened when I thought a snow plow was going to back into my travel lane from a side street. This was my first vehicle with ABS, and I am very impressed with the feature. I think even experienced drivers benefit from having them even if they kick in just once a year. But for some reason Toyota doesn't make that many Matrixes with ABS. Why is it standard on the lower-priced Scions and not on the Matrix?

silverado3 · July 2004

thanks nippononly. Toyota tells me that the manual instructs you to put the infant seat and infant in the middle facing backwards. Further that the side curtain airbags will add a measure of safety to the child and that the child is pretty safe from the deployment of the curtain airbags if placed in the middle. thanks also hersogtum71. Toyota also states that ABS is especially for emergency situations as you have experienced. The wife and I want both safety features on the car. the only thing barring me from ordering the car, is the over $19K, which includes our 7% sales tax. soooon, thanks again.

herzogtum71 · July 2004

After experiencing ABS in the Matrix, I decided this feature was essential when I traded my '94 Corolla wagon in March of this year. Ended up with a Highlander. The ABS hasn't yet kicked in on the Highlander, but there's no way I would want another vehicle without ABS.

Silverado, I don't want to dissuade you from the Matrix. $19K including tax is well below average these days for a new vehicle, especially one that is as well equipped as a Matrix. But if you have a 2nd kid while the first one still is in a car seat or booster seat, would you be comfortable with the older child in the rear close to the side airbag?

deg856 · July 2004

2004 XR auto FWD with 4400 mi. 344.6 mi on last tank. 11.959 gal fill-up.

thel · July 2004

Hello there, I'm wanting to switch my transmission and differential fluid to Redline and I've located what I think are the drain fittings but I can't find where to fill them up. I can't even find the transmission fluid dipstick LOL! I'm sure this stuff is in the owner's manual but I cant find that either! Arghh!

So, if any of you fellow Matrix owners (esp. fellow XRS owners) can help me, I'd appreciate it.

steine13 · July 2004

thel, we both know you've got a 6sp stick... no dipstick there.
typically -- and I'm talking VW/Audi here -- there is a drain plug in the bottom of the tranny and a fill plug ~halfway up the transmission housing. the level is supposed to be "just below" the fill plug, and the precision instrument used is a finger of your choice.
-Mathias

thel · July 2004

Well, that's the way it is in my Miata anyway. The differential drain and fill plugs are within a couple of inches of each other and the transmission drain and fill plugs are a bit further apart than that....but in the Matrix, I haven't found the fill plugs anywhere...

gsocat · July 2004

Has anyone attempted to factory order a Matrix? I have yet to see a 5-speed Matrix XR with a sunroof, ABS and side air bags in my area. And kind of doubt I ever will. So I was wondering if anyone had done a factory order. How was the experience. How long did it take.

Thanks!

mcdawgg · July 2004

You can order one. See Toyota Camry board under Sedans, messages 6896 thru 6904.

jazzy · July 2004

I wish you better luck than I had with trying to special order a Matrix. After researching several vehicles for over 1 1/2 years for the specifications, equipment, and reliability I desired I wasted nearly 2 months with a dealership who just wouldn't be honest with me about supposedly putting in a special order for Extra Value Package #2 (QP) plus side airbags (BE) on a 2004 Matrix XR FWD. All this with biweekly updates offering alternative vehicles in inventory ready for immediate delivery! After contacting Toyota corporate directly I was informed that a decision whether to produce a vehicle only takes a few days and that these are usually based by what the regional headquarters determines is the local demand. I was so fed up I ended up going to another dealership with a 2005 AWD Matrix with side curtain airbags (even better) just delivered for use as a demo. I was trying to avoid the AWD and didn't care about having the newest year available but decided to just go with it since they seemed to be the most straightforward about what they could and could not do. Hope you get what you want!

gsocat · July 2004

Thanks! Good to see it's possible. It always amazed and frustrated me that Toyota, or at least Southeast Toyota, considerd safety features like ABS to be a 'luxury' item. A rare luxury item.

deg856 · August 2004

2004 XR auto FWD with 4756 mi. 356.7 mi on last tank. 10.784 gal fill-up.

deg856 · August 2004

2004 XR auto FWD with 5082 mi. 325.2 mi on last tank. 11.594 gal fill-up.

techchick · August 2004

Has the optional DVD Navigation system been discontinued? I've seen references in reviews and on older messages on this board, but I cannot find on any website where they offer this.

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