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BTW, my point remains: get a p/u or SUV truck if you'd need towing. Much much better than using a sedan/wagon...
In other words, it is the sine of the angle that the road forms with the horizontal.
The steepest slope I'm personally familiar with that has a sign on it is in my home town... it says 15% and it's pretty darned steep. The steepest one I've ever seen is in northern MI and is supposedly 25%. I've biked it a few times... it is so steep that I have to yank on the handle bar to get my foot to go down... my own weight won't do it, and that's with a 1:1 gearing. Another indicator: If there's even a tiny bit of sand on the road, you can feel your rear wheel slipping ever so slightly... it is STEEP.
25% is about 14.5 degrees (arc sine of 0.25). I don't believe there is any road with a 20-degree angle -- that's a 34% incline. No way.
BTW, all those mountain roads in CO or in the alps are actually not THAT steep... most were built at a time when trucks couldn't handle more than 10% or so for any length of time. The nastiness of all the alpine climbs in cycling is that they are so darned long, not that they are super steep.
kcram, I hope you're not using your protractor on the picture... I'll only buy that if you shoot the picture through an aquarium... or a Scotch glass :-)
-Mathias
Sure; I didn't say they don't have inclines. I'm arguing it ain't 20 degrees.
Are there any civil engineers around? I wonder at what point asphalt starts to slide and break under the weight of cars or haevy trucks braking on the downhills... anyone?
-Mathias
I'll allow 2 replies, then we gotta get back on topic
kcram
Host - Wagons
(who did his fair share of trig as well as civil and mechanical engineering courses in college)
Thanks!
I learn something new (or in this case, old) on Edmunds every day. That makes it the arc tangent, and 20 degrees is 36%.
I'll quit harping on this now... it's just that I was fascinated with this stuff when I was little, and I found that when you're sledding or skiing, and you'd swear you're going down a 45-degree slope when looking from above, it turns out it's at most 25-30 degrees when you look from the side. We have a sledding hill near here that I thought twice about before going down... it's REALLY steep and short, and when I checked it from the side, it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.
Of course, in mid-MI, the definition of "hill" is something that water runs down in only one direction...
Thanks for setting me straight on the definition.
-Mathias
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Safety is an issue for me, as I have two sons 12 and 8. So, should I get ABS, or VSC, or both? would like to know the diff between these. I definitely think I should go with the front and side/curtain airbags...don't even know if curtain is offered on Matrix...
I live in Southern California, so harsh weather (snow) is not an issue, except for the rare skiing trip to Big Bear maybe some time in my future when the boys get older (if they want to go.) Do I need the AWD?
I do want a safe car to drive through wet, rain-drenched roads for when it rains here.
Is the stereo system adequate? Any other must have options? Would like to try sunroof, IF I can afford it.
It dosen't take much to make me happy. I am in a '86 toyota Camry--and anything would be better than that. But, I think the Matrix would be MUCH better ;-).
Marion
In skid situations you just keep your foot firmly planted on the brake pedal when you have ABS, and a computer pumps the brakes for you at something like a thousand times per minute in order to get the vehicle under control again. In our case the ABS has kicked in only a handful of times since we have the Matrix, and this was mostly on snowy surfaces. (You can tell the ABS is activated by a pulsating feeling in the brake pedal and a sort of "grinding" noise, for lack of a better word.) However, the ABS did kick in once on dry pavement when I slammed on the brakes because a huge animal darted into the road right in my path.
We just bought an '05 Matrix. I would suggest getting the ABS, but not the AWD option. If you go to the snow, get tire chains. Even if you have AWD, you can't get past the roadblocks unless you have chains. The XR has a decent stereo with 6-disc changer. That's nice. If you can, get the sunroof. Very nice during our nice SoCal days.
Marion
I wasn't aware, when we bought our '05, that VSC was a separate option. I thought it came along as part of an "option package" or just came as part of the "XS" model that we purchased. I'm not sure if the standard model has it, but I think the XS and the XSR both have it. One of the benefits of buying the higher-end models I guess. It's nice to know, in the back of my mind, that our car has VSC, but I've got two cars now with VSC and I can't tell you if I've ever known that it is working. Basically, it controls the slippage of the wheels to help maintain control in cornering. It probably becomes active when you drive beyond the limits of the car, or meet up with a situation that requires radical driving.
Marion
Thanks I'm gonnna spring for both ABS and VSC. Thanks
I have been in the market for a new car for sometime and the other day, I received a phone call from my local dealership about a 2003 Matrix XRS with 25,000 miles on it, loaded for $15,000. I was sold and ready to buy it when after some inquiry, I found that the first owner had burned out its original clutch.
My concern is this: If the first owner (it was a leased vehicle so it is certified pre-owned) was able to burn out the clutch so quickly, how much damange was he able to do to the engine? Part of me is trying to rationalize and say that the engine is supposed to be driven hard so it is unlikely any serious damange to the engine was done. Plus, the car would come with the 3-yr Toyota warranty.
However, I can't help but be concerned regardless. $15,000 for a used car is still a lot, especially for one with engine damage (although again, it is not known if any significant damage was done!). Furthermore, three years may not be enough for engine problems to arise.
If anyone has any ideas, please share! I appreciate any and all responses!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
On the other hand, the "certified" part of certified pre-owned tends to be pretty trustworthy. Ask for a second inspection of the powertrain and gearbox?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
NO.
Thank you for asking.
Who does a compression test, anyway? Typically, you do one of those if the power seems off.
CPO is a clean & wax, a drive around the block and a look-see, an oil change + warranty. Can be an OK deal, I'd rather do my own inspecting than pay for a warranty, but that's me.
And I don't buy cars that have been abused. My 99 Prizm had 135k miles of a BAD driver -- saw him in action -- before the clutch had to be replaced. Other than that, he took care of the car. I believe that's the same clutch you'll find in the XRS, and the mechanism looks no different than an '88 Celica... Toyota doesn't muck around too much with their designs. 25k? Run away.
-Mathias
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Thanks a lot
Unlike the XR, the XRS/6-speed is meant to be driven hard and is at its most fun at high rev points. With lift achieved at 5000+ rpm, this car is born to be raced, otherwise why did Toyota give it the Celica GTS motor with a closely geared 6-speed tranny ? If I own an XRS I will drive it hard too ... IMO, that is the only way to drive and enjoy this car....
Although not the same, I have had to replace my front brakes on my '03 XR after only 33K miles. I drive my XR pretty hard as well....
I was going to trade in on a 05 RSX,but after taking one for a test drive I discovered there was no head room in it for my 6'3" frame unless I reclined the seat waaaaaay back,so much so I felt like I was halfway laying down! Getting back in the XR it felt absolutely spacious by comparison!So now my XR with 26k miles is paid off and handling and shifting 100% better than before!Next up,better speakers and possibly an amp to go with the Delphi 6 disc stock head unit.
I am new to this forum and have some questions about the Matrix 4WD, automatic in the basic trim level. We will be trading in our 2002 Corolla in a few months for something with 4WD.
I have narrowed it down to a Subaru Impreza, Matrix and possibly RAV4.
I do not like the appearance or the tight dimensions in the interior of the Subie, although it does drive well. I am not sure of the quality of the current Subaru line-up either, especially since it is a GM affiliate. We have really enjoyed our Corolla which has been flawless. I already have a Honda product and would really like to stay with the Toyota lineup. Since this is for my wife as a city car, we do not need a rocket but I want something with all weather traction and good quality/reliability.
Any opinions/experiences with the Matrix versus the RAV4 or Subaru? Any reservations about reliability of the 4wd mechanism in the Matrix?
Thanks in advance for all your input.
One key thing to keep in mind, the RAV will be totally redesigned for 2006. They should be hitting the lots by late Summer.
We owned it for 2 1/2 years and had 48,000 kms at time of sale. It ran flawlessly and was solid as a bullit. The 4WD system in the Matrix is different than in the RAV. The RAV is continuous, the Matrix is on demand (It's the front wheels that drive the vehicle until slippage is detected, then the back wheels kick-in with additionnal traction. The transfer is seemless and extremly effective). Both work well... but the RAV has a higher ground clearance (something we did not need). Left many cars behind in snow and ice conditions. However, as I stated before, it will not stop any quicker in those conditions (particularly with the ABS). Safe and precautious driving habits are the order of the day. Good luck with your decision.
We looked at both the RAV4 and Matrix before buying the AWD Matrix in August 2002. The back seat room is much better in the Matrix. It has been a reliable car for my wife, who wanted the AWD. I will agree that it's not a hot rod, but it certainly has adequate power and it is great on slippery surfaces.
Re dunworth's comments: Please be aware that the Matrix AWD system has come up before in this forum and that there is disagreement on the issue. I have noted that the Toyota literature when we bought the Matrix claimed it was "full-time" all-wheel drive. The service manager at my dealership told me it was always at least 10 power to the rear wheels, and this percentage would increase based on driving conditions.
I have also considered the Vibe version of this vehicle. Although they are the exact same vehicle, the Toyota version is made in the slightly better plant in Canada (where they build the Lexus RX330) while the Vibe is made in the NUMMI GM joint venture in the USA. The quality numbers are marginally better on the Matrix not that it matters much.
I suggested a Vibe to my wife but she did not want anything with Pontiac written on it. Too bad since we have a GM Visa card with $1600 available.
I know several people with Vibes who are quite happy with them, but people in this forum have complained about the Vibe paint being thin and prone to chipping. The other complaint I have heard is that the roof rack on the Vibe is useless for most purposes unless you remove the radio antenna. But of course you won't have that issue with the Matrix since there is no factory roof rack available.
I remember back in the late 1990s, GM was rebadging its Cavalier as a Toyota for sale in the Japanese market! No-one was fooled of course. The old Cav was a good cheap ride but it was nothing like a Toyota visually or in overall execution.
I did not hear about the paint problems on the Vibe. I thought GM generally had OK paint durability even if the finish is not the best. It could be that the Vibe is offered in Pontiac colours which are harder to paint. I know GM and Toyota use different grades of galvanized steel for their vehicles which could account for some of the learning curve for the Toyota NUMMI plant learning how to paint the car. Our Canadian Corolla built in the same plant as the Matrix has quite decent paint durability (our Canadian built Honda is not as good)so I would hope the Matrix would be good as well.
Has anybody out there put high mileage on a Matrix 4wd yet? I believe the oldest ones are now about 3 years old.
The Matrix 4WD is about $24 K in Canada plus tax (15%). I just visited a GM lot near my office at lunch and they have new 2005 two door Jimmies (4.3 L Vortec V6, auto, air etc) for $19 K plus , freight and tax. You could get a real SUV (albeit the last in the line) and save $5 K or buy a Corolla wagon with sort of 4wd.
The brand value in a Toyota is truly unbelievable. I am not doing this to slag GM either since my family has owned and enjoyed many GM vehicles since the mid 1970s. But the price difference can be shocking. No question I will still be driving a Matrix or possibly a Subaru but if you wanted a real truck......
Although the truth is I will still work on my wife about the Vibe versus Matrix. I never had an issue with my GM stuff so, for me, it does not matter whether it is the Toyota version or Pontiac.