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Toyota Matrix

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Comments

  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    All roads have inclines, except if you'd argue that all roads are FLAT. As a learned gentleman that you are, I'd not try to stress this point too much, as I'm sure on second thought you'd agree with me, as well as kcram_Host.

     

    BTW, my point remains: get a p/u or SUV truck if you'd need towing. Much much better than using a sedan/wagon...
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "Rise over run" is -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the height gained over total distance traveled. Not horizontal distance travel.

     

    In other words, it is the sine of the angle that the road forms with the horizontal.

     

    The steepest slope I'm personally familiar with that has a sign on it is in my home town... it says 15% and it's pretty darned steep. The steepest one I've ever seen is in northern MI and is supposedly 25%. I've biked it a few times... it is so steep that I have to yank on the handle bar to get my foot to go down... my own weight won't do it, and that's with a 1:1 gearing. Another indicator: If there's even a tiny bit of sand on the road, you can feel your rear wheel slipping ever so slightly... it is STEEP.

     

    25% is about 14.5 degrees (arc sine of 0.25). I don't believe there is any road with a 20-degree angle -- that's a 34% incline. No way.

     

    BTW, all those mountain roads in CO or in the alps are actually not THAT steep... most were built at a time when trucks couldn't handle more than 10% or so for any length of time. The nastiness of all the alpine climbs in cycling is that they are so darned long, not that they are super steep.

     

    kcram, I hope you're not using your protractor on the picture... I'll only buy that if you shoot the picture through an aquarium... or a Scotch glass :-)

     

    -Mathias
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "All roads have inclines, except if you'd argue that all roads are FLAT. "

     

    Sure; I didn't say they don't have inclines. I'm arguing it ain't 20 degrees.

     

    Are there any civil engineers around? I wonder at what point asphalt starts to slide and break under the weight of cars or haevy trucks braking on the downhills... anyone?

     

    -Mathias
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    The definition of a percentage incline in terms of roads is rise over fixed horizonatl length, e.g. a 1-foot rise over 100 horizontal feet is a 1% grade. Thus, a 45-degree angle is a 100% grade - it's not going by arcsin, just straight height-to-horizon ratio. (A vertical wall has no grade because there's no horizontal travel to compute the percentage, essentially dividing by zero which is mathematically illegal.)

     

    I'll allow 2 replies, then we gotta get back on topic :)

     

    kcram

    Host - Wagons


    (who did his fair share of trig as well as civil and mechanical engineering courses in college)
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "Thus, a 45-degree angle is a 100% grade "

    Thanks!

    I learn something new (or in this case, old) on Edmunds every day. That makes it the arc tangent, and 20 degrees is 36%.

     

    I'll quit harping on this now... it's just that I was fascinated with this stuff when I was little, and I found that when you're sledding or skiing, and you'd swear you're going down a 45-degree slope when looking from above, it turns out it's at most 25-30 degrees when you look from the side. We have a sledding hill near here that I thought twice about before going down... it's REALLY steep and short, and when I checked it from the side, it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.

     

    Of course, in mid-MI, the definition of "hill" is something that water runs down in only one direction...

     

    Thanks for setting me straight on the definition.

    -Mathias
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Rest my case... ehm... point.

     

    :)
  • mpalmermpalmer Member Posts: 20
    I test drove the Matrix and fell in love with it. But, I am considering upgrading the seats to maybe a fabric like in the Camry (dealer said they could upholster over the ones that come with it). However the fabric material that comes with it IS pretty comfortable. Actually, I was surprised. Anyway, should I do it?? Thanks.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    but I think the material used on the Matrix seats breathes better than the cloth in the Camry. Good for long trips.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mpalmermpalmer Member Posts: 20
    Hi all, test drove the Matrix and plan on getting a new '05 in a month or so. I think I test drove the XR FWD model (can't drive a stick). Can you guys help me with what options are worthwhile while keeping the price down?

     

    Safety is an issue for me, as I have two sons 12 and 8. So, should I get ABS, or VSC, or both? would like to know the diff between these. I definitely think I should go with the front and side/curtain airbags...don't even know if curtain is offered on Matrix...

     

     I live in Southern California, so harsh weather (snow) is not an issue, except for the rare skiing trip to Big Bear maybe some time in my future when the boys get older (if they want to go.) Do I need the AWD?

     

    I do want a safe car to drive through wet, rain-drenched roads for when it rains here.

     

    Is the stereo system adequate? Any other must have options? Would like to try sunroof, IF I can afford it.

     

    It dosen't take much to make me happy. I am in a '86 toyota Camry--and anything would be better than that. But, I think the Matrix would be MUCH better ;-).

     

    Marion
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    We have the 2003 with ABS (anti-lock brakes) and we got 4WD because my wife wanted it. Here in Massachusetts the 4WD is handy, but it sounds like you would be fine with FWD. I would strongly recommend ABS, especially since your 12-year-old may well learn to drive in this vehicle, but finding a FWD with ABS in our area is not easy.

     

    In skid situations you just keep your foot firmly planted on the brake pedal when you have ABS, and a computer pumps the brakes for you at something like a thousand times per minute in order to get the vehicle under control again. In our case the ABS has kicked in only a handful of times since we have the Matrix, and this was mostly on snowy surfaces. (You can tell the ABS is activated by a pulsating feeling in the brake pedal and a sort of "grinding" noise, for lack of a better word.) However, the ABS did kick in once on dry pavement when I slammed on the brakes because a huge animal darted into the road right in my path.
  • dfilicedfilice Member Posts: 6
    Our brand new '05 Matrix has what is probably the same rattle as what you have. I fixed it, in my own ingenious way. I went to Staples and bought a small, soft erasure (about 1" X 2"). Soft is key here. Don't buy the harder, standard orange erasure. I trimmed one end so it was wedge shaped. I then pushed the erasure deep into the front-left corner where the windshield meets the dash board. It's been fine since I did this.
  • dfilicedfilice Member Posts: 6
    mpalmer,

     

    We just bought an '05 Matrix. I would suggest getting the ABS, but not the AWD option. If you go to the snow, get tire chains. Even if you have AWD, you can't get past the roadblocks unless you have chains. The XR has a decent stereo with 6-disc changer. That's nice. If you can, get the sunroof. Very nice during our nice SoCal days.
  • mpalmermpalmer Member Posts: 20
    Herzogtum71 and difilice, Thank you for the responses. But, do you guys think I need VSC? I don't really know much about it. Does it work inconjunction with the ABS?

     

    Marion
  • dfilicedfilice Member Posts: 6
    mpalmer,

     

    I wasn't aware, when we bought our '05, that VSC was a separate option. I thought it came along as part of an "option package" or just came as part of the "XS" model that we purchased. I'm not sure if the standard model has it, but I think the XS and the XSR both have it. One of the benefits of buying the higher-end models I guess. It's nice to know, in the back of my mind, that our car has VSC, but I've got two cars now with VSC and I can't tell you if I've ever known that it is working. Basically, it controls the slippage of the wheels to help maintain control in cornering. It probably becomes active when you drive beyond the limits of the car, or meet up with a situation that requires radical driving.
  • mpalmermpalmer Member Posts: 20
    It's looks as if I've missed the end of year rebates offered on the Matrix, if there were any,I was late in checking. Does anyone know when I can expect more rebates to come out? Or know where I can find this information out?

     

    Marion
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    I have VCS on the Highlander I drive and can't tell if it has ever done anything. I don't think our Matrix has it. But if it's easy to get VCS on the new Matrix and doesn't add much to the cost, then why not go for it?
  • mpalmermpalmer Member Posts: 20
    herzogotum71 and dflice,

       Thanks I'm gonnna spring for both ABS and VSC. Thanks :)
  • neatoneato Member Posts: 3
    Hi everyone. Not sure where exactly this should be placed so if I'm posting in the wrong area, feel free to move it!

     

    I have been in the market for a new car for sometime and the other day, I received a phone call from my local dealership about a 2003 Matrix XRS with 25,000 miles on it, loaded for $15,000. I was sold and ready to buy it when after some inquiry, I found that the first owner had burned out its original clutch.

     

    My concern is this: If the first owner (it was a leased vehicle so it is certified pre-owned) was able to burn out the clutch so quickly, how much damange was he able to do to the engine? Part of me is trying to rationalize and say that the engine is supposed to be driven hard so it is unlikely any serious damange to the engine was done. Plus, the car would come with the 3-yr Toyota warranty.

     

    However, I can't help but be concerned regardless. $15,000 for a used car is still a lot, especially for one with engine damage (although again, it is not known if any significant damage was done!). Furthermore, three years may not be enough for engine problems to arise.

     

    If anyone has any ideas, please share! I appreciate any and all responses!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    there are other fish in the sea. $15K isn't the world's best price for a 2 year old XRS (possibly close to 3 years old at this point, depending on build date), and 25K is too young for it to need a new clutch - find one that wasn't driven so hard. Lots of regular folks are buying XRS's too. Ones that don't race it, but carry their kids in it instead.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I'd worry that the car wasn't driven softly during the break-in period. And that the synchros have been beat up, meaning the transmission will be painful to use in the car's old age.

     

    On the other hand, the "certified" part of certified pre-owned tends to be pretty trustworthy. Ask for a second inspection of the powertrain and gearbox?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    but they are not going to tear down the engine or the transmission - those CPO inspections amount to nothing much more than fluid checks. Do they do even do a compression check? The warranty is good, as long as you plan to sell at the end of the 6/100. And if the shifting gets stiff and crunchy before then, at what point will they do anything about it under the CPO warranty?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "Do they do even do a compression check?"

     

    NO.

    Thank you for asking.

    Who does a compression test, anyway? Typically, you do one of those if the power seems off.

    CPO is a clean & wax, a drive around the block and a look-see, an oil change + warranty. Can be an OK deal, I'd rather do my own inspecting than pay for a warranty, but that's me.

     

    And I don't buy cars that have been abused. My 99 Prizm had 135k miles of a BAD driver -- saw him in action -- before the clutch had to be replaced. Other than that, he took care of the car. I believe that's the same clutch you'll find in the XRS, and the mechanism looks no different than an '88 Celica... Toyota doesn't muck around too much with their designs. 25k? Run away.

     

    -Mathias
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the XRS does not have the regular Corolla clutch, it has the short clutch out of the Celica GTS. In the Celica it feels engaged and makes fast driving easier. In the Matrix, because of the high seating position, it doesn't have the same effect. But it is still a better clutch than the base Corolla clutch.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    I drove a base corolla clutch for 10 years and 111,000 miles without having to do any work on it. Shifting was smooth, and never any question about what gear I was in.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    no, the clutch itself is a shorter one with more positive engagements. That is the only way it is different.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • saaviksaavik Member Posts: 2
    I am researching my next vehicle. The Matrix has caught my eye. I live in northern Ohio. I was wondering if someone could tell me how the Matrix (particularly the AWD version) handles the snow around here. How's the traction? Is there enough ground clearance? How well does it pull a snowy hill? Things like that.

     

    Thanks a lot
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I'll second everyone here and say move on and don't buy this car. If you want to have a glimpse of the XRS crowd, why not visit their dedicated website. Just search for this site (pretty easy to find) using your favorite search engine.

     

    Unlike the XR, the XRS/6-speed is meant to be driven hard and is at its most fun at high rev points. With lift achieved at 5000+ rpm, this car is born to be raced, otherwise why did Toyota give it the Celica GTS motor with a closely geared 6-speed tranny ? If I own an XRS I will drive it hard too ... IMO, that is the only way to drive and enjoy this car....

     

    Although not the same, I have had to replace my front brakes on my '03 XR after only 33K miles. I drive my XR pretty hard as well....
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    The vehicle (AWD) handles great in snow and ice conditions. The traction is fantastic. However, it's easy to get too agressive at times. Just remember it will not stop faster in those conditions (particularly with ABS).
  • saaviksaavik Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    Petl's comments are on target. The 4WD Matrix handles snowy hills very easily. I shared your concern about ground clearance, but around here (Massachusetts) the plows are out before the snow is too deep on the roads. Driving through several inches of snow that piles up between passes of the plow is no trouble. If you need to go over snow banks that are a couple of feet deep, though, you should consider a higher profile 4WD.
  • zombozombo Member Posts: 89
    Just had a local Toyota dealer install(so the warranty wouldn't be voided) the TRD short throw shifter for my 5 speed XR along with the front and rear TRD sway bars.Now shift action is sweet and the annoying body roll around corners is all but gone!

     

       I was going to trade in on a 05 RSX,but after taking one for a test drive I discovered there was no head room in it for my 6'3" frame unless I reclined the seat waaaaaay back,so much so I felt like I was halfway laying down! Getting back in the XR it felt absolutely spacious by comparison!So now my XR with 26k miles is paid off and handling and shifting 100% better than before!Next up,better speakers and possibly an amp to go with the Delphi 6 disc stock head unit.
  • pinoyptpinoypt Member Posts: 1
    I would like to know the performance of the Toyota Matrix XR 4X2 or 4X4 AT on snow. I am not sure if I should get the 4X4 version due to its safer drive on snow; although, I am aware that it will sacrifice both mpg and speed. Kindly enlighten me on this. Thank you very much.
  • zombozombo Member Posts: 89
    I've heard the auto in the Matrix,2 or 4wd is dull,dull,dull!Personally an auto in a car with only 130 horsepower(even less for the 4wd)is nothing I would even consider. Just had a 2004 Corolla(same engine as the Matrix) loaner from a dealer for a day with auto and it couldn't get out of it's own way.Just my two cents.
  • tommyg12tommyg12 Member Posts: 158
    I still have the original Continental tires on my '04 AWD. Just starting to turn 15k miles and the tires show about 6/32" on the thread gauge. I would say about 1000 miles ago, I started hearing more tire "whirr" and the vehicle now seems "darty" when on roads that are not very smooth. Any of you have or had these tires and experience the same? thanks.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Hi all

     

    I am new to this forum and have some questions about the Matrix 4WD, automatic in the basic trim level. We will be trading in our 2002 Corolla in a few months for something with 4WD.

     

    I have narrowed it down to a Subaru Impreza, Matrix and possibly RAV4.

     

    I do not like the appearance or the tight dimensions in the interior of the Subie, although it does drive well. I am not sure of the quality of the current Subaru line-up either, especially since it is a GM affiliate. We have really enjoyed our Corolla which has been flawless. I already have a Honda product and would really like to stay with the Toyota lineup. Since this is for my wife as a city car, we do not need a rocket but I want something with all weather traction and good quality/reliability.

     

    Any opinions/experiences with the Matrix versus the RAV4 or Subaru? Any reservations about reliability of the 4wd mechanism in the Matrix?

     

    Thanks in advance for all your input.
  • tommyg12tommyg12 Member Posts: 158
    The Matrix is a great car, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. The RAVs are fun also. I have no experience with the Subies. You really need to drive the Matrix/RAV to compare, as they drive very differently. Do you like sitting higher (RAV), lower (Matrix), etc.

     

    One key thing to keep in mind, the RAV will be totally redesigned for 2006. They should be hitting the lots by late Summer.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    We traded our 1998 RAV for the 2003 4WD XR Matrix. The Matrix was less expensive with more features. It offered better gas mileage, more interior room, more flexibility, better ride, and a lower insurance rate. We recently sold it (unfortunately we no longer needed 2 vehicles). Liked it so much it took 18 months to finally put it up for sale (it lost out to our loaded 2002 XLE Camry).

     

    We owned it for 2 1/2 years and had 48,000 kms at time of sale. It ran flawlessly and was solid as a bullit. The 4WD system in the Matrix is different than in the RAV. The RAV is continuous, the Matrix is on demand (It's the front wheels that drive the vehicle until slippage is detected, then the back wheels kick-in with additionnal traction. The transfer is seemless and extremly effective). Both work well... but the RAV has a higher ground clearance (something we did not need). Left many cars behind in snow and ice conditions. However, as I stated before, it will not stop any quicker in those conditions (particularly with the ABS). Safe and precautious driving habits are the order of the day. Good luck with your decision.
  • tommyg12tommyg12 Member Posts: 158
    Correction, just saw an updated press release. The next RAV will make its debut at Frankfurt in the fall and go on sale in early '06.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Keep in mind the 1998 Rav is smaller than the current generation (2001 to present) Rav.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I realize that. We compared the current RAV to the Matrix before purchasing. If memory serves me right, the Matrix is approx. 6 inches longer than the current RAV. Back seat passengers benefited the most. The vehicle felt more spacious.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    I looked at Subarus a year ago and was scared off by the headgasket issue in the Outback. Check the Subaru discussion to see if Imprezas have this problem.

     

    We looked at both the RAV4 and Matrix before buying the AWD Matrix in August 2002. The back seat room is much better in the Matrix. It has been a reliable car for my wife, who wanted the AWD. I will agree that it's not a hot rod, but it certainly has adequate power and it is great on slippery surfaces.

     

    Re dunworth's comments: Please be aware that the Matrix AWD system has come up before in this forum and that there is disagreement on the issue. I have noted that the Toyota literature when we bought the Matrix claimed it was "full-time" all-wheel drive. The service manager at my dealership told me it was always at least 10 power to the rear wheels, and this percentage would increase based on driving conditions.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Some good discussion on the Matrix. Thanks to all of you. I understood that the 4wd system, while not like a Subaru is on all the time and redistributes power depending on traction.

     

    I have also considered the Vibe version of this vehicle. Although they are the exact same vehicle, the Toyota version is made in the slightly better plant in Canada (where they build the Lexus RX330) while the Vibe is made in the NUMMI GM joint venture in the USA. The quality numbers are marginally better on the Matrix not that it matters much.

     

    I suggested a Vibe to my wife but she did not want anything with Pontiac written on it. Too bad since we have a GM Visa card with $1600 available.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    Dunworth, it sounds like your wife and my wife would get along well. My wife also refused to consider the Vibe because it was a "Pontiac." I tried to tell her this was not rational since she previously had driven an '87 Chevy Nova, which was a Corolla clone built in the same plant in California that now makes the Vibe.

     

    I know several people with Vibes who are quite happy with them, but people in this forum have complained about the Vibe paint being thin and prone to chipping. The other complaint I have heard is that the roof rack on the Vibe is useless for most purposes unless you remove the radio antenna. But of course you won't have that issue with the Matrix since there is no factory roof rack available.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    I remember the Nova, it was a good little car. It came in a unique sedan or a hatchback version, the latter of which was also offered as a Corolla. It is odd that the Toyota branded products always do better than the GM ones despite being literally the same vehicle.

     

    I remember back in the late 1990s, GM was rebadging its Cavalier as a Toyota for sale in the Japanese market! No-one was fooled of course. The old Cav was a good cheap ride but it was nothing like a Toyota visually or in overall execution.

     

    I did not hear about the paint problems on the Vibe. I thought GM generally had OK paint durability even if the finish is not the best. It could be that the Vibe is offered in Pontiac colours which are harder to paint. I know GM and Toyota use different grades of galvanized steel for their vehicles which could account for some of the learning curve for the Toyota NUMMI plant learning how to paint the car. Our Canadian Corolla built in the same plant as the Matrix has quite decent paint durability (our Canadian built Honda is not as good)so I would hope the Matrix would be good as well.

     

    Has anybody out there put high mileage on a Matrix 4wd yet? I believe the oldest ones are now about 3 years old.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    We have had ours for 2 and a half years, but only 22K on the odometer.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Our 4WD XR had flawless 50,000 kilometers (30,000 miles) when we sold it. Solid little devil.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Thanks herzogtum and pet1. Makes the case for the Matrix even stronger.

     

    The Matrix 4WD is about $24 K in Canada plus tax (15%). I just visited a GM lot near my office at lunch and they have new 2005 two door Jimmies (4.3 L Vortec V6, auto, air etc) for $19 K plus , freight and tax. You could get a real SUV (albeit the last in the line) and save $5 K or buy a Corolla wagon with sort of 4wd.

     

    The brand value in a Toyota is truly unbelievable. I am not doing this to slag GM either since my family has owned and enjoyed many GM vehicles since the mid 1970s. But the price difference can be shocking. No question I will still be driving a Matrix or possibly a Subaru but if you wanted a real truck......
  • howdycuzhowdycuz Member Posts: 12
    Howdy- Any chance you could shoot me that $1600 here on a Vibe purchase? : -)
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    OK itsa deal! Sadly ours are not transferrable otheriwse I would actually give them to a friend if I do not end up using them.

     

    Although the truth is I will still work on my wife about the Vibe versus Matrix. I never had an issue with my GM stuff so, for me, it does not matter whether it is the Toyota version or Pontiac.
  • brazucabrazuca Member Posts: 95
    Hi Everyone....I've just replaced my Camry for a Matrix XR 4WD....this is my second Toyota and since I had no problems at all with the Camry, I decided to stay with a Toyota product....test drove the Matrix 4WD and really liked it....wife also liked it a lot....we had a chance to drive it on 3 inches of snow and it handled it very well. Does any one has any experience with 6 to 8 inches of snow...does it drive OK ? What about the 4WD system, the dealer told me it has 90% in the front wheels and 10% in the back, this change to 50/50 when slippery conditions are detected. I tried to get additional info. through Toyota website and could not find it. I'm now trying to check the actual mileage I can get. Thanks for any reply.
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