Land Rover Freelander

tincup47 · September 2001

I don't see anything like that happening anytime soon, many of the reasons are given in that same article. Also we have our plate full at this time with the new Range Rover coming out in May (don't know where Autoweek came up with Feb. on page 22, at least in the U.S.), the upcoming redesign of the Discovery, and (hopefully) a U.S. Version of the Defender. The design of the rear taildoor dictated the placement of the Rear High mount stop light. We had to live with that because we share that part with the European versions that have the 3 door version (with rear soft top) that keeps it from being mounted in the roof. Jeep Wrangler has a similar setup for the same reason. The Lamp is actually part of the spare tire carrier.

keninplacitas · September 2001

Is there anyone in this forum who can tell me what the seating height is in the Freelander and maybe how it's height compares to other cars or SUVs? Also, does it use regular or premium gasoline?

tincup47 · October 2001

Land Rover has started a marketing program that has 25 Freelanders in teams going across the country stopping at every retailer. Most of the retailers will be mailing invitations to individuals that have contacted them for test drives and demonstrations on their off-road courses (Centres only). This is a good chance to see and drive the Freelander.

keninplacitas · October 2001

Just got back from driving a Freelander. Good machine! Here are some observations:

. Tight
. Feeling of quality
. Functional
. Looks good both inside and out (rugged look).
. Seat comfort is good, but not great.
. Leg room in the back seat isn't bad.
. Enough headroom, even for a tall guy.
. The sunroof doesn't intrude into the cabin.
. I wish the top of the windscreen was higher.
. Handling is nice and tight.
. Acceleration isn't great but sufficient I guess.

It's good. Try it, you'll like it.

debdog · October 2001

I've heard rumors that the HSE will not be available this year. Tincup, is it worth waiting for? I'm in Seattle, do you know if the X Plan is available here? I'm trying to decide between the Freelander and the Toyota Highlander.

tincup47 · October 2001

When they set it up for X-plan, it will be good for the whole country. X-plan is voluntary to the dealers though, they do not have to honor it. The HSE does have the Nav unit, and high end audio standard along with upgraded leather interior. Whether it is worth it is up to the individual. I have not heard any change to it's introduction.

tincup47 · October 2001

I heard from one of our tech guys that it takes a few thousand miles for the engine to learn the throttle adaptions and that acceleration is quite a bit better then. The Freelander uses an electronic throttle application like BMW (often referred to as fly by wire) and it takes the ECU a while to learn all the settings. I will be driving one next week for several days that has been driven several thousand miles and will give all my impressions.

drew_ · October 2001

I thought it was "drive-by-wire" ;-)

Drew
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smich · October 2001

Well folks I drove a Freelander HSE here in the Chicago area and I kinda like it! It looks about the same size as a Ford Escape and when I looked inside and reconfigured the back seats it actually looked to have more cargo room than I thought it would (for my needs anyway...)
The vehicle handled pretty good and the pick-up was ok.When you hit the gas ,the response is a few seconds in coming,but when it did kick in...it felt and sounded good.
The vehicle itself had 4400 + miles on it and I wasn't allowed to take it on the test course

so I'll have to wait until Dec.
Now for my personal cons: I'm 5'7" and when getting into the vehicle I bumped my head on the upper door jam! (granted,it could just be me) Also,when looking under the hood,there is NO access to the spark plugs! I like to change the oil and plugs myself!
Hope everyone gets a chance to drive a Freelander and I look forward to reading about your impressions!

bigshotla · October 2001

Never having considered buying a Land Rover before, I didn't know what to expect from a dealer. [non-permissible content removed] Jim at the LR centre was not only completely ignorant about the Freelander, he didn't even know there was a website (and what is with the fake accent and bermuda shorts ??!!!) He kept saying "It's a Land Rover" as if that meant something to me. I mentioned the reliability issues, and he scoffed, "says who?"....um... Consumer Reports, [non-permissible content removed] Jim?

Is Land Rover prepared to SELL this car, or are they expecting besotted customers to stampede the retailers? Cuz I'm interested, but I'm going to need a little more support and knowledge from anyone I give 25K to.

FYI, my husband went in got the exact same vibe. Spoke also with a friend who says all LR dealers are rather smug and condescending. The cars have always sold themselves.

Has anyone else had this experience, and if not, can anyone recommend a dealer in the Los Angeles area?

tincup47 · October 2001

Which Land Rover Centre were you dealing with? There are at least 8 Land Rover retailers in the Metro LA area. I find your account of your experience outside of the norm for our Centre's. Land Rover consistently scores amongst the top in J.D. Powers ratings on Purchase experience.

bigshotla · October 2001

LR centre in Encino. My main concern was the blasé attitude. I want to know it's a good car, and that I'll get great service. What does JD Powers say about service? [non-permissible content removed] Jim did give us some Land Rover University pamplets which were very enlightening (maybe he should have read them) about the expected demographics of the Freelander buyer.

60% Male, Median Age 35, 50% Married, 33% Young Children, 55% College Grads, Median Income 70K

It also goes on to say (this is where LR retailers have to pay attention):

"Many Freelander shoppers may never have considered visiting a LR Retailer before. Lower price will attract less affluent customers than the traditional buyer, but they will be more demanding and knowledgable. May be more likely to cross-shop than previous customers..."

While I love the idea of goodies, I don't really need a photo calender or any other kind of validation if I'm paying for it. I just want a solid, reliable vehicle for a good price, I want to be treated well and not condescended to, and it's a great bonus to be able to get a Land Rover with all that.

tincup47 · October 2001

As we are exchanging these messages, Sales and Service training is underway. This is a new vehicle for this market, and many of the retailers have not had a chance to familiarize themselves with the vehicle. Consumer Reports can have no info on this vehicle either, as they have not been sold in North American Spec. yet. I certainly will not deny there have been quality issues in past Land Rover products, but on the whole they have been mostly small issues and present product is much better. The clothing the sales guides wear at our Centres is meant to separate ourselves from other makes, a way to say that the ownership experience is different from our competitors.
J.D. Powers and Strategic Vision both rate Land Rover highly in the total ownership experience, and you might want to check some of the posts in the Discovery forums here on Edmunds to find out how they feel they have been treated for service, etc.

bigshotla · October 2001

I have to say, that's the most comprehensive response I've gotten from anyone! Thank you.

to all: Can I please hear from anyone who's gone throught the internet buying process? Did you get a better price than MSRP? When will you receive your car?

tincup47 · October 2001

I doubt that the Freelander will be selling at less than MSRP for at least a few months after the Dec. 1 launch. If you order through the Website, Land Rover guarantees that you will pay no more than MSRP. They do this by paying the difference to the dealer of what they would charge.

junaid · October 2001

I am having a hard time deciding between the Liberty Ltd 4*4 and Freelander S. I know that the freelander costs a few thousand more but has the advantages of steptronic, HDC, good looks and the Land Rover name on the hood. But Liberty seems to have more powerful engine, better ground clearance, better cargo space and low range transfer case. The competition seems to be tough, all your thoughts and views in this regard are most welcome.

smich · October 2001

Are you driving the Freelander yet? If so,what are your impressions so far?

02discovery · October 2001

I test drove a jeep Liberty a few months ago and it was an unforgettable experience. The dealer had an awful time shifting the thing in and out of it's "ranges" Radio did not work at all! "They come that way from the factory, We set the radio's up" Talk about your basic bull-junk! And please do not overlook the "bath" that the Liberty takes every time the back hatch window is open while it is wet! Don't know what I'm talking about, try opening the hatch while it is raining.
BUT, all of these things do not make it a bad vehicle, it really is up to the individual. Remember 02's motto, "when all else fails, crawl underneath both vehicles and see who's got what quality where" Heck, I crawled under the Liberty and it got your basic "Close, but no cigar!"
Regards To All,
02

bigshotla · October 2001

It's a nice car. Seriously. I'm 5'4, and this car fit me like a glove. Moving from a sedan, it took no time to adjust to the size, height. It was all perfect. It feels solid, responsive, quiet, and well-built - but teeny.

I can see if I were taller that the door height would be a problem. You have to be careful not to hit your head. It stands about my height at the front door. It's low inside, and the windshield roofline seems low. However, when you start driving, you forget, because the little thing is sooooo much fun. Could have better pick-up, but corners incredibly well, and the braking is terrific. Flew over a couple of big speed bumps like they were pillows. Verrrry comfortable seats, front and back. Surprisingly good rear visibility, considering the height of the backseats and the spare tire. S cloth trim is very nice, with leather panels on the seats. The HK upgraded stereo on the HSE didn't sound particularly great.

Worried about cargo space, still. A bit less than the Liberty - without the height. Seats tumble forward with ease, but it's still pretty small. Wonder if we could fit skiis in the back. Back window malfunctioned. LR demonstrator and dealer still don't know what the 75% new encompasses. No wankers tonight, but not much more knowledge than previous visits. Got free stuff tho'....

bigshotla · October 2001

It takes regular fuel (87 octane). The S will be out in "early december". The HSE won't be out until January .

jkbeantown · October 2001

Just test drove a Freelander HSE last night. Overall, I was impressed with the vehicle. It handled well (all on-road driving) and felt like a tight and solid vehicle. The upgraded leather seats on the HSE model are excellent. The side bolsters on the seats wrap right around you. Kind felt like the seats from my old BMW. I was most impressed with the Steptronic transmission. The 3 modes you can operate the transmission in are awesome: 1)The normal automatic drive mode is perfect for my wife, who just wants to put the vehicle into drive and go. 2)The sport mode allows the engine to rev a little higher before it automatically shifts. 3)The Steptronic mode, in my opinion, is the best. It's like a manual transmission without a clutch. I love manual transmissions, and was disappointed when I found out the Freelander would not be offered with one in the U.S. However, the manual mode of the Steptronic tranny more than makes up for this deficit.
I'm 6'2" and had no problems getting into or out of the vehicle. The driving position was very comfortable. I even hoped into the back seat and found plenty of leg (and head) room. The only concern I have would be the lack of storage space with the rear seats up. Unfortunately, I did not get an opportunity to check out the cargo area with the rear seats down.
I do have a question (maybe for you Tincup, by the way, your "inside" info has been a great asset to this topic discussion), is there any information on whether using the transmission in the "manual" Steptronic mode will cause more wear and tear on the tranny than using the normal "automatic" shift mode?

bigshotla · October 2001

Does anyone know what the holdback for LR is? Also any incentives?

tincup47 · October 2001

There is no dealer holdback on any Land Rover product.

tincup47 · October 2001

There is no penalty in transmission life using it in manual shift mode. All of the different manual mode transmissions are controlled by an ECU that prevents the transmission from doing any action out side of its design parameters.

elfie · October 2001

Tincup - not sure if you can answer this or not, but what are the advertising charges for the FL? Specifically, the Sacramento CA region?

Just curious what additional fee's LR traditionally charges.

Thanks!

Jackie

tincup47 · October 2001

I'm afraid I don't have that info, but I can say any fees that are charged by Land Rover would be printed on the invoice. I know there is a transportation charge, but don't know about advertising fees.

bigshotla · October 2001

Without holdback, and with such a low margin between invoice and MSRP, where does the profit come in?

I'm just curious.

tincup47 · October 2001

It comes from the difference you speak of, that is one reason you don't get much off of MSRP. On occasion Land Rover will offer dealer incentives to move slow selling vehicles, which the dealer can pass on if he chooses.

lyngo · October 2001

As a Liberty owner, I have to say that *if* you truly test drove one, then you got one of the rare ones. The reason I say *if* is because the stick shift isn't out yet (as far as I know...it definitely wasn't when I bought a month ago) so the dealer wasn't manually shifting. Now if you're talking putting it in 4 wheel then the problem could have been the driver and his ability just as easily as a Liberty defect. I haven't heard anyone say a thing about it so I'm assuming it's not a problem.

Anyway, I could not be happier with my purchase. It is a solid, squeak-free ride with a luxurious interior (at least the limited is) Check out the Liberty boards, here and on JU and I guarantee you, the problems are minimal and rare. The Liberty will prove itself to the naysayers someday

btw, I'm here on the Freelander board because I had heard good things about it and wanted to check it out. I go to a lot of the SUV boards...mostly lurk but I just had to speak up about the Lib. I could have afforded most of the Land Rovers but I chose the Liberty for many reasons...personal preference being the main one.

bigshotla · October 2001

Put a deposit today on our Freelander. Expected to arrive in "December". The website is now pre-ordering for February, but the dealer had exactly what we wanted in his initial stock. Says we will be able to do it through our X-Plan! We'll see, as we didn't talk price, but it seems hopeful. Calling around to other dealers in the LA area, no one's firming prices, but verbally they're not budging from MSRP.

02discovery · October 2001

I don't recall saying anything about a stick shift.
I did say that it is not a bad vehicle and I wish you all the best with yours. Congratulations!
As a matter of fact, *if* land rover "don't hurry up and deliver" an 02 Discovery, for 02 Discovery, I just might be buying a Liberty myself!
NOT!
Regards To All,
02.

lyngo · October 2001

After posting, I did what we should do with owners manuals and reread what you wrote and sure enough, you didn't say anything about a stick. I guess I'm oversensitive to criticism because the Jeep diehards are so passionate about this new entry into their line-up

I really do believe tho that the Liberty will surprise a lot of people. I've not had one moment of problems with it...best vehicle I ever bought....so far

So enjoy whatever you buy....but don't write off the Lib so fast...I really think the one you test drove was a fluke or like I said, the stealer was inept. So no offense meant...peace

bigshotla · October 2001

We're planning a 3,000 mile road trip almost immediately after we receive our brand new car. Is this a dumb idea?

Are there things we should do or not do when "breaking in" a new engine?

Help, please....

02discovery · October 2001

After doing my research for all of eight months, I narrowed my choices down to three vehicles, Discovery, Liberty and Envoy. No car is perfect and they all at some point in time are going to cause us grief. I really do wish you well with your vehicle and am happy for you that you are driving around in a brand new car! Lots of good times in it is what I wish for you! Who knows, I could end up regretting buying a Discovery! Maybe the title you chose for your last post, could it be prophecy?
My mistake Discovery?
Regards To You, Lyngo!
Regards To All,
02.

bigshotla · October 2001

Does anyone know how the X-Plan works for leasing Land Rovers? The dealer we're talking to says that the residual value and money factor haven't been set yet on the Freelander  is he telling the truth? What are the usual money factors and res. values on a 36 month lease for Land Rover vehicles under the X-Plan?

Thanks.

bigshotla · October 2001

Is anyone out there?

Two dealers in the LA area say they will honor the x-plan. Thousand Oaks and Hornburg. However, no talk of price has begun.....

smich · October 2001

I asked a salesperson at my local LR dealer about the X-Plan and he said that particular plan was for Ford employees and their relatives.

cayennered1 · October 2001

X Plan is for friends and family. Friend of mine just bought a Volvo through a friend who's husband is a Ford salaried employee.(employee must be salaried)

tincup47 · October 2001

Is also for partner companies and organizations. People who join the EAA (experimental aircraft assoc.) can also purchase using X-Plan. A-Plan pricing (Ford Employee and immediate family) has not been set yet for the Freelander, and X-Plan pricing is based on that. Residuals and money factors for leasing vehicles are set by the companies financing the lease, and the Freelander's figures have not been released yet.

tincup47 · October 2001

I spent the weekend driving a pre-production vehicle that is here for engineering evaluation and testing. It had elements of different trim levels, but was functionally the final product. My impressions of this vehicle are very favorable. The transmission, with its electronic sport shifting, is always able to be in the right gear when needed. The dual modes on full auto (sport and standard), along with the manual mode will fill the needs of just about everyone. The engine steps off the line very smartly and the exhaust note on full acceleration is very nice, if a bit loud. Acceleration felt on par with my wife's Forester. It handled very well and felt very solid in it's body structure. The tires that were on this vehicle will not be on regular production vehicles, which is good because they had a pronounced drone at highway speeds. I did have a couple of issues with the layout of the switches on the console, they are quite low and until a person became familiar with their placement they will require a quick glance away from the road to find them. Being large I also had a minor comfort problem with my right leg pressing against the console, but it is something that more time in the car to get used to different seating positions might alleviate. The brakes had great feel and good stopping power.

smich · October 2001

Does anyone know what the invoice price is for the Freelander?

tincup47 · October 2001

check in Edmunds under new vehicle pricing.

bigshotla · October 2001

X and A plan pricing is now in at the dealership. No idea of residual value yet, though, or a firm arrival date.

Any firming of the MPG?

junaid · October 2001

Why does freelander have such a bad fuel economy at 16/21??? It has only 2.5 litre V6, doesn't weigh much, at around 3500 lbs and it comes from Europe where mileage is of big concern. Does operating its transmission in manual mode increase the fuel economy?

qdisc · October 2001

so i pay $40 bucks to join some experimental aircraft club and i can save how much on a freelander? Is it really that easy?

q

bigshotla · October 2001

Edmunds says this is of the cons of the Freelander. Could someone please explain why?

Thanks.

elfie · October 2001

If you belong to the EAA, the Ford partnership plan shows Land Rover pricing as: Dealer invoice price plus 4 percent and any incentives.

They have a sample for a Discovery that has MSRP at $39,795 and X-plan at 36,908 + any incentives. Difference is $2,887.00.

Hope this helps!

Jackie

02discovery · October 2001

http://members.aol.com/Spfnever/freecar.jpg

http://members.aol.com/Spfnever/free1.jpg

http://members.aol.com/Spfnever/free2.jpg

While at my local Land Rover dealer to order a 2002 Land Rover Discovery, I took these pictures of the new Land Rover Freelander just for you Freelander folks! I hope that if there is someone out there that has yet to see this car in person, these pictures might prove helpful.

Regards To All,

02.

bobcatbob · October 2001

I received an invitation to see the Freelander during its "Road to Adventure" stop here in Baltimore. Since I've been silent on the board, I thought I would post my thoughts about the vehicle and my 35 minutes of up close and personal time.

Overall, I am sorry to say that I was very disappointed with my initial introduction to the Freelander and my reasons are as follows.

1) The doors. Very thin construction and they do not close with anything resembling an authoritative "clunk." They sound rather tinny to me. Also, what is with the cloth inserts in the doors? If you are paying for leather, you deserve leather door inserts, not the cheap cloth.

2) Driving position. I did not test dr8ive the vehicle, but in closing the front door I realized that there wasn't a place to put your arm on the door, nor is there a center armrest. Basically you must drive with the hands at 10 and 2.

3) Cargo space is shockingly limited. I'd guess you couldn't fit more than a few small duffel bags back there. Forget trying pack a lot of gear.

4) Roof rack. It doesn't extend the length of the roof, and thus adding a Yakima or Thule rack system will be difficult if not nearly impossible. In addition, the antenna is angled such that any aftermarket rack will require you to reangle the antenna. I work with Yakima and Thule racks a lot and I can tell you that given the height of the roof rails on the Freelander, there isn't much you can do if you want to carry a bike, a boat, or even extra gear.

5) The Engine. No, I did not test-drive the vehicle, but engine is an older engine and its gas mileage is abominable. Why Ford did not step in and place the 200 HP Duratec is beyond me.

6) The Snout. The front end of the Freelander doesn’t so much come to an end as it simply tapers to a snout. Given the photos I have seen, I assumed it was more of a "block" front ala the Explorer.

If you were to get a Freelander I would definitely go with the HSE. With that you get nicer seats and more features. If you are serious about carrying cargo, gear, or a bike on the vehicle, well, then you need to look at another vehicle.

Now, before anyone goes hammering me, let me say that I have been awaiting the Freelander for the past two years. Yes, BMW was going to bring it to North America way back when they owned the company. I hope this helps some people, but of course it is bound to tick off some people.

Bob

tincup47 · October 2001

I'm certainly not going to flame you for stating your opinions, but I am going to have to disagree about your calling the engine "old". The engine in the Freelander is no more of an old design than the Duratec in the Escape. Both were designed in the early 90's, the Duratec first appearing in the 96 Taurus, and the Freelander engine first appearing in the Rover 75 (not sure of the exact year). The Freelander engine is very much a modern design with 24 valves, DOHC, Variable intake runners, etc. The reason that the Freelander is using that engine is that when the Rover Group and BMW first decided that there was a viable market in the US for this vehicle, that was the obvious engine of choice as Rover Cars and Land Rover were still one entity. The development of the V-6 variant goes back to late 98, and the first examples went on sale in the rest of the world in late 2000 as 2001 models. Ford did not take ownership of Land Rover until July 1, 2000, so given the 2-3 years of development required to changing to the Duratec, putting it in this generation of Freelander was not a viable option. As the Freelander is already at least 2 years late in this market, any further delay would have made bringing it into the U.S. a waste of time and money. I'm sure the next design of the Freelader will have a different engine, although if the Duratec is put in, the purists will scream that Ford is ruining the vehicle and making it a rebadged Escape.

Land Rover Freelander

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