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Nissan Altima
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Comments
I've had mine for about a month now and because the ergonomics are so good, I don't even notice the cheap plastic anymore. The dash is designed in such a way that my right leg doesn't rub up against the middle console and my left leg doesn't touch the door. Not to make excuses on the interial materials because they really should have stepped it up on their do or die car but it wasn't enough to detract me from the awesome looking exterior. Plus I liked the neat little features like the trip computer the steering wheel controls as well as the gauge layout. Also, the auto on/off headlights are cool too, I never have to touch the headlight switch.
A couple of cars were trying to challenge me today, one was a Honda Accord LX. ha ha ha! I actually let him win..no need to race a car you can smoke w/o trying
Speaking of interiors, I think someone mentioned an article that blasted the new Mercedes C-coupe interior. I guess I can understand some consternation about the funky pattern they used on the cloth seats. But then again, you can't get in any other new Mercedes at the coupes price point. So what's the [non-permissible content removed]?
However, getting back to the Altima, its exterior, especially a light green 3.5SE they had at the show, was attracting quite a bit of attention. In fact, there was a new A4 directly across the isle, and it was getting nowhere near the hordes of onlookers the SE was harvesting. Actually, the only other cars that seemed to be getting nearly as much attention as the Altima along it's isle was a WRX wagon (it had a $3K BBS wheel/tire package), and the new IS300 Sportcross.
That said, I would never expect the Altima to post the sales numbers the Camcords achieve, unless the new ones completely drop the ball (I would hope not and it's not likely). But I wouldn't be surprised if the Altima stole a disproportionate share of previous generic sedan owners and others who might be shopping for something with a bit more of an edge in the family sedan market.
1) Just by looking at the CR-V from the outside you know it's cheap. The front and rear uses more plastic even more so then the last model.
2) At least the Altimas interior has unique and attractive design. I couldn't stand staring at the most boring interior in the world.
3) The seats are just sad with their ugly pattern.
4) From what I heard leather is not an option. Sorry folks
5) even the door handles are black plastic.
Of course Nissan will get the double standard and everyone will ignore how cheap the New CR-V is. The sad thing is that Honda has more funds then Nissan and their cost cutting efforts are more apparent then Nissans. It all started with the Civic with the cheap suspension(Even edmunds thinks the new Si's use of platic is overdone.)
I suggest some of you who are looking to the Heavens for the 2003 Accord to be your savior better not get your hopes up too much cause this Honda trend with cost cutting seems to be stretching through out their whole line-up.
I just noted that the local dealer has a few 5 speed Altimas listed. Finally gonna try one on! Yahoo. Maybe my annoying 1.8T will finally find a new home.
I think MT's numbers were something like this:
Altima - 6.3 0-60, 14.7@97 1/4-mile
Boxster - 6.1 0-60, 14.7@96 1/4-mile
Note that they were not referring to a Boxster S or an M3, which are both significantly faster than a base Boxster.
Boy, you'd think it was a 1986 Hyundai Excel with a VQ series engine strapped to the front. Any how:
* solid braking performance
* good handling for a family sedan
* exterior styling
* 17" wheels standard
* interior space (cross your legs in back, go ahead)
* 5 speed manual offered with both engines
* HID option
* moonroof option (WRX does not have this)
That's a pretty unique combination of pros to go along with the engine.
-juice
The invoice on the Max ends up about $900 more than the Alty. However, the residual on the Max after 5 years (cars.com) is about $1500 more than the Alty. So basically, even at invoice the Max is $600 cheaper in the long run than the Altima. If you use TMV, the difference is even greater: $2300 more for the Altima. I just don't see the value of the 3.5SE. I think Nissan screwed up the pricing on this one.
OTOH, I think the 2.5 liter version of the Altima is very competitively priced.
Be tired all you want, but valid complaints about a car is not a form of hating on it. Sorry you can't appreciate the difference.
Sure, the CR-V's interior is plasticky in a bad sense, but look at its competition. That's what I said about the Altima too - look at its competition. The Altima claims to compete with the Accord and Camry but can't match even their interior appointments in quality.
The CR-V competes against other mini-utes, and there, materials quality is lacking across the board - esp. in the Escape/Tribute.
So what's the beef?
What I said about the racer in the Altima is that he's dumb enough to try to race an M3. He obviously bought into a lot of hype about his car, and he got spanked for it. That's my point - I didn't deny the Altima being a fast car, just not THAT fast, and certainly not with 3 people on board.
Jeez. Chill out cuz I ain't hatin, so dont you be hatin.
Second, the magazines use professional drivers, on a track, who are capable of dealing with the torque steer that the Altima has.
Bottom line is an ordinary driver is more likely to replicate the magazine times in an M3/Boxster in a safe manner than an Altima driver.
-juice
Remember, just because you outrun someone doesn't mean they were trying. ;-)
-juice
Bottom line most people that drive any car whether it be M3/Boxster/Altima/Elantra are ill prepared to do anything out of the ordinary in their cars. Most people drive down the highway at 75mph talking on their cell phones. It's pretty evident around my home town up Nort' when that first snow fall comes around.
The Altima is not exactly a difficult car to launch. It doesn't require a ridiculous launch technique to get good times like some other fast cars do (*cough* S2000, WRX *cough*).
I've driven one and the docile under 3000rpm personality actually is an advantage IMO because it's quiet, smooth, efficient, and generally easy to live with. When you want it to it'll go, for sure.
-juice
Also, for the comments about the Honda Accord having a cheap interior next year, I doubt it. Why? Honda knows that if they drop the ball on interior quality they will loose sells, they know that buyers look for cars with extreme refinement and quality, they won't drop the ball.
just my .02 on the article and 0-60 times.
~alpha
It's not one result that makes the car, it's the group of solid results. Look again at the numbers for braking and handling.
-juice
~alpha
It's funny because the way I read it the Altima was the sportiest and the Camry seemed to be best of the non-sporting bunch. Really I'd be OK with the wife choosing either one, or the Accord for that matter.
-juice
Civic, CR-V, Accord and Oddy are Hondas prime vehicles and the trend so far doesn't look good. I'm just saying don't expect a "perfect" car or a much better one then the Altima(if that even).
fasterthanu
For all the interior complainers (or Altima complainers period) I'm also really surprised how no one seems to mention how plasticy the Camry can be. The base models are a whole different story then the top of line ones. Where Nissan messed up was not at least giving a better interior for the higher level models. I have a black interior Altima and my biggest complaint is the doors, I also saw a 2002 Camry I think it was an SE version and the door was just as plasticy as the Altima was. Plus the base Camry's have plastic interior door handles. So I'm just not getting why nobody complains about these things in other manufacturers vehicles. Like I said though a double standard for Nissan.
http://www.parttrackers.com/auto_glossary/
After driving it I still think it FEELS tons faster than the other cars. The slush-box has a much better feel than other automatics. It has a nice quick response when you mash the gas.
After thinking about it I don't think the brake-torque mehtod would work well on the Altima. When I did a stree-start with a 3.5 it spun the tires pretty readily. I think if you did a brake-torque start you would probably smoke 'em pretty good which doesn't help your stats. But I don't own one so I can' back that up with practical experience. I will however be giving it a try the next time I drive one. (wicked grin)
maybe the Hyundai XG350? 2nd quickest acceleration and street start time, 3rd quickest top gear 30-50, 3rd highest top speed, best warranty, loaded with safety & luxury amenties (standard ABS/TC and side airbags, sportshift, 5-speed automatic, leather, and more), and value priced ($2,400 less than the tested Altima 3.5SE and $1,500 less than Camry SE V-6). Love the cloth seats in the Camry & Accord. Not!
Passing/top gear times mean different things for cars with automatic and manual transmissions. For the latter, shows engines power & gearing combination in the top gear, while in the former it can depend upon how many gears the transmission downshifts when floored. I'd like to see the figure for automatics include leaving the tranny in D as well as "manually" downshifting to the optimum ratio.
Speed
Funny you asked about the ad fee - there was another forum where the ad fee was examined. Basically, it's a charge by the manufacturer to the dealer. The fact that they are trying to pass it on to you as an additional fee on top of your negotiated price means the salesman was preparing to - um .. - mess with you. The fee is BOGUS and you should walk. Period.
One Love:
All cars have vast expanses of plastic (what else would they make the interior panels with - wood? But we're talking about the quality of the plastic, as well as build and design quality.
What Altima do you have? Next time you get in, poke the roof. It's like a sagging sheet of tin. A tuna can is built sturdier than the Altima's roof. That's the issue we're discussing - QUALITY.
Emmo, I suggest you post your question in the Smart Shopper forum. There are several car salemen there who are more qualified to answer your question than we are here.
Edit: There's a topic over there called "REAL FEES...OR NOT REAL FEES when buying" that I believe will answer your question.
Check this out:
/direct/view/.ef06138/70
Whether they're to cover costs by the manufacturer or dealer, Ad Fees are bogus if they're charged back to the consumer. Why should the buyer have to reimburse a fee for advertising? Advertising is a cost of doing business, and the manufacturers and dealers should count it as part of the cost of the product itself.
What's next? A Janitorial Fee to cover the cost of mopping the showroom floor? A Country Club Fee to cover the cost for executive privileges?
How stupid is this ad fee? Very. I've never paid it, and if someone asked me to, I'd tell him to pay me a Shopping Fee for all the work I do to get a car.
If the fee is built into the final price, and the buyer thinks the price is fair, then that's all good. If it's separately itemized and added to a negotiated selling price, then you need to walk out of the showroom, preferably stepping on some sales toes on the way out.
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#75 of 112 Bogus by artwis Nov 10, 2001 (02:01 pm)
I've never had the manufacturer ad fee itemized and added to the negotiated price but it's in there somewhere just like when you buy a box of cheerios at the grocery store. It would be better if it was averaged to be the same all over the country and just part of final invoice price. I guess that would be the same as counting it as part of the manufacturing cost. Manufacturers could cut the advertising costs if they would cut back on the regional and national tv ads, they get old and agravating real fast especially when you see the same one 3-4 times in an hour or less on the same channel.
Art
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#76 of 112 faster by brentwoodvolvo Nov 10, 2001 (03:10 pm)
I think you ought to scroll up and read that image that I linked to.
It might explain what we're talking about.
If you negotiate a price with a dealer and then get hit with an advertising charge, yes, that is bogus in all likelihood.
If you're negotiating from the invoice up and see an advertising charge on the invoice, its' likely a legit fee that's part of the invoice of the car.
Bill
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#77 of 112 Ad's fees .... by rroyce10 Nov 10, 2001 (03:19 pm)
.......... You guys have kinda missed the whole point ....
The conversation started because of a question "about them" ...
So what do you get for the small upgrade in cost ...? Well lets see ...
How about 0% financing -- or $2500 rebates..(and in some cases $4,000) .. or both. --- how about some of the manufacturers, who are also giving away full value packages that are 7/8/$900+++ for -0- ....
Gee whiz, lets see .. you only have an opportunity to save somewhere in the area of $2000 to $5,000+ .. and you are whining about a $200 advertising fee ....????
Does your mom still press your shirts and pack your lunches ...? -- l...o...l...
Terry.
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#78 of 112 by fasterthanu Nov 10, 2001 (05:47 pm)
Artwis:
The example of Cheerios is extremely appropriate to this discussion. It's been documented that the actual cost of production for cereals and their packaging are NEGLIGIBLE compared to the cost of advertising/marketing them: endless commerials, promotions, supermarket space, etc. When you pay $4 - $6 for a box of Count Chocola or Fruit Loops, that is for advertising and profit, with a minimal amount (pennies, really) towards the productions costs and overhead. Crazy, no?
Brentwood:
Good point, one in which I acknowledged in my post. Sure, ad fees are charged to dealers, but what I'm talking about is the dealer assessing that same charge to the buyer, in addition to the negotiated price. It's happened often, and buyers need to be educated about it - like it's happening her
I might even be interested in one if Nissan did not configure their cars so that I had to get a totally optioned out vehicle just to get airbags and ABS!
Expecting to get a fully loaded anything for $24k is a bit much, unless it's Korean.
Look at the levels of equipment. The Accord got a failing grade in content in that C&D comparo, as did the Camry. A loaded up Camry exceeds $30k, more than a loaded Altima. The Accord simply doesn't offer a lot of the equipment that the Altima does, so you can't really compare.
-juice
One lesson is that hosts play an important role. But you have to wonder, what is it about Altimas that has stirred the wrath of so many fans of other cars?
The '03 Accord will have much better interior materials than the current '02 version, which would be leaps and bounda ahead of the '02 Alty. Nothing less would satisfy the hordes of people waiting for this proposed new design of the Accord. I mean, Honda would lose big if they cut corners in this area. And why should they ? The Accord is a FAMILY sedan, and they would get it right.
Nissan, OTOH, hasn't figured out what it takes to succeed in this market segment, and their tinkering on inside/outside changes only proves they have some ways to go before they get it...
just my thoughts tho'
Not a problem - glad to be able to point something out that's useful to the buyer. That's what Edmunds is here for.
storyteller:
I can tell you from a personal perspective why the Altima has drawn my strong criticism: Lack of quality (as compared to its competitors), high price that the dealers are not willing to negotiate upon, dealers' arrogance because of this new model. Nissan has advertised the Altima to the hilt and came short on supplying a quality product. Sure, some juices only care about the engine, but the rest of the car falls so short of benchmark that it's become a symbol of style over substance in the family sedan market.
You may see a below par interior, in terms of materials and quality, but I see an above par interior in terms of design. It's much more of a cockpit, a driver's environment, than either the Accord or Camry. Whether or not you like that is up to your personal preferences.
Nissan has not been successful? Have you seen the sales figures? They just broke another record in production (per Automotive News).
Some "juices" only care about the engine? I cannot help but take that personally. Now you are blind-folded.
I've been talking about balance this whole time, how mileage was good, lateral gs were good, slalom times were solid, brakes were within a foot of the best. The design is inspired, inside and out, and that is better than being boring, at least to me.
Open your eyes, please.
-juice