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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier
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Comments
W/ the trade in, chances are you'll be screwed. They'll give you thousands less than what you'll get if you sell the Del Sol privately. That's expected since you forgo the trouble of selling the car yourself. But how many thousands are you willing to loose for that convenience? I suggest you check the trade in value (yes trade-in not private or retail) for your car on Edmunds. The prepare to loose about 20% more on the trade. Less is better. Anything more than that you are getting screwed.
The Corolla only puts out 130HP, the Protege only puts out 130HP, the Elantra puts out 14...err I mean 134 or so, the Lancer puts out 120HP, the Focus has 130HP.
*/someone*
If this doesn't show someone is bias towards Honda, I don't know what does. If Corolla, Protege, Elantra and Focus ONLY (emphasis on ONLY) puts put 130HP, I wonder what would be categorize the LX Honda putting out a whopping 115HP and the EX putting out another biggie size me whopping 127HP. Mind you, that's 13% gain the competitors have over the LX. How much money do we spend to get even a 10% gain? Not to mention w/ the exception of the Corolla, the other cars are cheaper than the LX and far cheaper than the EX.
All Honda are good for is their long time reputation for quality. Whether that's the case now, we won't know till the time comes for 02/03 owners selling their car in 05/06??
It is shocking to see what a used 98/99/00 Civic sells for at dealership. Some even asking for close to brand new car prices. Will this be true 4 years down the line? Only time can tell. If the Proteges, Sentras, Elantras, Focis hold up good, it'll be the end of Honda high resale value.
And I thought my dealer was trying to screw me by offering a brand-new one with less than 10 miles for $16,999. I know I could get better, though.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
Yeah, the 5 yr old slides his feet over the plastic getting into the back, with gravel imbeded in his shoes. Thinking about tying him on the top. At least there's no more barfing...
http://www.injen.com/webpages/testing/original_files/rd1575.jpg
It's pretty level compared to other vtec engines.
I hope you didn't pay 17000 for an LX coupe. Wow.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
I'll admit I am biased towards Honda. Every Honda I have owned (knock on wood) has been trouble-free, fun-to-drive, and has gotten great gas mileage compared to comparable offerings. And I'm sure this SI will do the same .. at least until I can get my hands on one of those EX V6 6-speed Accord Coupes
Anyway, a few months ago I actually *fake* a post saying I bought a urine yellow SI to replace a POS Escort I drove. Well, for kicks anyway since I was very annoyed at *someone*. Someone claimed she sold her 00 SI for more money than she paid for and she actually got her 02 SI for like $14k.
So, I'm in the market for real now this time looking to buy an 02 SI. Just got to decide on white or silver Maybe 03 if it is the same price.
Oh.. btw, I claimed I sold the Escort and made $4k profit. So, the supposedly 02 SI I bought cost me ony $12k.
Yeah, very juvenile for a 30year old guy with way too much time on hand.
Drove it for 4 months/7000 miles.
Went into a Honda dealer who offered her $12,200 for it and gave a before tax price of $16385 for the 02 Si.
anonymousposts Aug 10, 2002 12:59pm
good luck with your fender bender...
I would think it'll cost more than $400 to fix the Bummer It is afterall the ultimate driving machine.
Thanks!
Hopefully by next June I will be able to buy my very first new car!! I am looking at the Black Civic SI and I was curious regarding the price I should negotiate. Now I know June is far off but I just need an idea. I heard stories of them selling for somewhere around 15k-17k. I was curious how I should negotiate that with the dealer. I want to get a rockin deal! Thanks
Also, sporty cars tend to command a higher price when the summer months roll around, so unless you can locate a dealer who is choking on Si's, you might have to work hard to get one for even $17K.
Don't think that I'm trying to discourage you. The Si is a good car and a great value (at invoice).
Now, the BIG problem, the car has just under 6000 miles and driving back from Palm Springs to San Diego, in the first mountain twisties..the engine check light came one and I couldn' t rev the engine past 4000 rpm, it was chocking!!! I got home (some 90 miles away) driving carefully. Bought gas and closed the gas tank thightly (per driver 's manual). A week later, in a nice curve, bham!!, the engine check light comes on again and the engines is chocking above 4000 rpm. The "service mgr" at the dealer says that he needs the car one day to check the emissions control, I think it' BS. Has anyone experienced this with their Si !?? I would like some feedback to talk with that guy.
Be careful the price is right, it's a great car but not up to par with Honda's reputation. I almost regret not getting the WRX.
They told me the oil level was low, they added 3qts. Mario Garcia, the service rep suggested that I bring back the car in 1000 miles (@7000)to re-check.
PLz let me know if you get the same problem!
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
Just go here and see what we're missing!
http://www.honda.co.uk/
At 15,995 sterling pounds (on the road price), that's approx. $24,000 USD, it's a 200 hp screamer!
It's my opinion that the Si body style will soon catch on in the U.S. and Swindon will not be able to cope with the demand from the U.S. market. IF only we could get the Type R's...left hand drive, of course!
DH
Hatchbacks have been relegated to cheap cars. Giving ways to SUV and euro wagons. I'll be more than happy to see US drivers giving up their stupid SUVs and start driving hatches, wagons and minivans with farmers and contruction workers driving their heavy duty trucks and maybe eco-friendly SUVs.
If you're looking for the real reason why we don't have the CTR, look no futher than the RSX-S.
Given a choice between the two, I'd choose the CTR because of its cloth seats and lighter weight.
Hatchbacks still have a stigma to them. The most recent evidence of this is the abandonment of the Saab 93 hatchback giving way to a new 4 door sedan. If you read any of those reviews, you'll see Saab abandon the hatch coz' it is associated w/ cheapness.
Btw, I'm not talking about the Integra/RSX type of hatches. I'm talking about Si/GTi/ZX3/Metros type of hatches.
You can see why BMW stopped selling the 318ti. c230 is a half-baked idea by MB and it fails miserably. Other than the GTi which is the costliest of them all other than the RSX, which hot hatch is over $25k??
Oh yeah, why do you think we don't have a CTR? That's coz' Honda knows they can't sell a Civic hatchback costing $24k to the American consumers. Try selling a Civic at more than $20k is like climbing Mount Everest. Throw in a hatchback, it is impossible.
If the CTR comes over, it'll not have 200HP. It'll have slightly less than the RSX-S. So, maybe at 190HP. But you are right. Realistically, it'll be at $21-$22k. Unfortunately, I doubt it'll be a CTR. Most probably a higher powered SI called SI-R (not to be confused w/ the SIR in Canada). Even at $22k, it is still costly for a Civic.
When Honda's were seen as cheap cars, Honda was a relatively small, inexperienced carmaker with limited resources. As they achieved success and gained in experience and available resources they applied that to their cars until their cars were as good as anyones. At least one Korean company (Hyundai) seems to be on that same path. Their cars still aren't up to the standards of the industry leaders, but they're getting there.
The Neon is a product of a major car company, a company with as much experience and resources as anyone (except maybe GM). The cars from that major car company have suffered from many of the same flaws for *decades*.
The Neon has been largely the same car since it was introduced. (Well they got rid of the 3 speed auto at least.) Compare that with what the competition has done. When it was introduced, the Neon seemed like a pretty good car compared to the competition. Now, compared to the improved competition, it is seen as an unrefined bottom-feeder, competing on price alone. (Sure, it still has a few virtues that make it seem like a "high quality" bottom-feeder, like surprisingly good handling.)
There is no reason to assume that the Neon will magically become a better more reliable car just because other manufacturers improved their cars, in fact the Neon has been continuously losing ground to its competition since it was introduced. The SRT interests me because of the potentially stunning price/performance ratio, but I remain skeptical about how well put together and reliable the cars will be. I imagine they'll be kind of like a new GS-T, with more interior room but uglier. And like the GS-T, I see them as being easily-modded, great cheap performance cars, as long as they keep running (which may not be long).
And as far a Saab ditching the 9-3 hatch, that was GM's call, not Saab's. It had everything to do with maintaining rigidity in a shared platform, and nothing to do with a perceived "cheapness." Also note that the Saab faithful are screaming bloody murder, and that they never worried about the fact that their $30K+ cars have a hatch. In fact, that's one of the reasons why they like them.
Granted, Saab buyers are a weird bunch -- and proud of it, too -- but the lack of a hatch in the new 9-3 says more about Saab following the current market trends than what it says about what Saab buyers want.
However, when they see a hatch style of the Civic, first thing that comes to mind is cheap. Maybe I'm wrong but you are free to ask your colleagues and see what they think of hatches that look like Civic and Metros. Anyway, then the see the Honda Civic emblem. First thing that come to mind? I bet it'll be small, cheap car. Period.
I said the reason why a CTR can't sell here (for a good profit margin for Honda) is because it is a Honda Civic. But for you and me and probably the other readers of this forum, I would take a CTR over RSX-S coz' I like the wagon style hatch of the CTR over the coupe looking hatch of the RSX. I'm not vain nor do I care about the emblem. So what if my neighbors or valet attendant sees me pulling up in a Honda? Besides, I'm going from an entry level lux car, 01 Audi A4 to a Civic Si. Do I care what other people say? Heck no!
Whether it is GM's call or Saab's call, it doesn't matter. If GM or Saab doesn't think it'll sell more 93 in a sedan form, they'll never abandon it. Car makers are in the market to make not loose money. So, do you think Saab will sell less 93 this year coz' of the change? I think not.
Saab Article Link
Here's a direct quote from C&D/Saab:
Saab contends that shoppers at the entry level of the luxury market (that includes the Audi A4, BMW 3-series, and Volvo S60) consider the hatchback the automotive equivalent of double-knit polyester. We would add that the current 9-3 is not as luxurious or sporting as those other cars, either.
Enthusiast of Saabs will always like the hatchback, but will they buy the new 93? Sure they will. People get emotional initially but they'll warm up to the new style. Saab will get new customers to boot in the end w/ the new style.
Tax, Title, and registration should be excluded since they are specific to the state and county where you live.
JM2C
Anyway, what's the best price anyone has gotten for an 03 Si? Please list state too, if possible.
If you are paying $20k for a regular Civic EX or loaded Accord EX to the wazoo ($26k), you are paying for unnecessary things in the car. But it is your money. You are free to spend it how you see fit.
Oh yeah, RSX also has a factory performance package though it is mainly visual. Larger rims, spoilers, exhaush (??) etc. for $4k too. I think an online car magazines says it is about 30% overpriced compared to aftermarket, but since you are getting full manuf. warranty + being able to finance the money, it is acceptable. $4k would push the RSX-S to about $26k-$27k BEFORE taxes and that my friend, ain't cheap. For that money, $27-$32k, you are in these cars territory - A4, 325, 93, S60, CL/CL-S, C240, CTS, IS300.
It is in the news item. Should be there for a few days.
Side view sure looks like a Foci! But I like it
Moparbad - I agree with you. Price should include destination. But you'll be surprised some people will qoute you prices (dealers/friends/family/aliens) and not include dest. just to *show* that they got a good deal.
But it is always good to be specific.
Very few cars are sold for MSRP so even if the price of a "real" Si was 21,000 only a few people would probably pay that much. The rest would be haggling in the sub 20,000 range just like the 17,000 Si prices that we have now.
In addition hatchbacks only say "cheap" in this country. Even if they only sold a few of them here they would still sell enough of them to make money in other places with more open minds. Peugeot, Ford, Citroen, Toyota, etc all make hatches for Europe where they sell like hotcakes for the space efficiency. Importing a few of them into the U.S. wouldn't hurt.
It is up to the individual to get a loaded Civic or base Accord. I guess I was implying the average American will tend to spend more than what they can afford and get a mid-level Accord
Seriously, you cannot tell me that America is not a country driven by name brands. Sure, you and I might not care if we drive a Honda or Acura, Toyota or Lexus, VW or Audi, Nissan or Infiniti, but there are people who do and I do believe a majority of the average joes and janes care.
Honda can bring a CTR over if they want but the bean counters will probably not agree. There's a reason why we have an RSX-S here but the rest of the world has a CTR. Wagon like hatches DO NOT sell well here other than the euro Audi/BMW/MB/Saab/Volvo (Volvo is a stretch). Even those are considered 5 doors. RSX is a hatch yes, but it is a different hatch from the CTR.
Btw, if Honda brings the CTR over (w/o decontenting it - how could they anymore :P) and sells it for $21k MSRP, I would be more than happy to eat my words. In this aspect I agree w/ anonymouspost. CTR will cost in the range of $22-$24k. It cost that much in Europe. With the additional cost to get it certified for US emissions, crashworthiness etc. who knows how much it'll cost. I bet the bean counters will step in and say no! But I'm ready to admit I'm wrong if that's the case. Just make sure I've first dips on a CTR.
I think the perception in the U.S. is that hatchbacks are the cars forced onto us during the twin oil crisis of the 70's. Those cars were slow, economical, odd looking and didn't fit the American standard of what a car should look like. Unfortunately this has carried over today with many people born before 1970. The youth of this country do not have any negative stigmas with hatches or even wagons. That's why were are getting all of these crossover vehicles that automakers will never describes as wagons. Especially in this SUV era where utility is prized above the driving experience it makes little sense to sedanize everything.
GM should of looked at Saab as unique and thus more valuable as being one of the only luxury cars with a hatch, but they really are a company deserving of a credit rating just 2 notches above junk bond status.
JM2C