Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

hamproof · October 2002

Definitely $15k or less. They'll have a hard time moving the car. New 02 SIs are selling for $16k. Now one with 5000 miles, forget it. They'll have to do better than that.

W/ the trade in, chances are you'll be screwed. They'll give you thousands less than what you'll get if you sell the Del Sol privately. That's expected since you forgo the trouble of selling the car yourself. But how many thousands are you willing to loose for that convenience? I suggest you check the trade in value (yes trade-in not private or retail) for your car on Edmunds. The prepare to loose about 20% more on the trade. Less is better. Anything more than that you are getting screwed.

hamproof · October 2002

*someone said*

The Corolla only puts out 130HP, the Protege only puts out 130HP, the Elantra puts out 14...err I mean 134 or so, the Lancer puts out 120HP, the Focus has 130HP.

*/someone*

If this doesn't show someone is bias towards Honda, I don't know what does. If Corolla, Protege, Elantra and Focus ONLY (emphasis on ONLY) puts put 130HP, I wonder what would be categorize the LX Honda putting out a whopping 115HP and the EX putting out another biggie size me whopping 127HP. Mind you, that's 13% gain the competitors have over the LX. How much money do we spend to get even a 10% gain? Not to mention w/ the exception of the Corolla, the other cars are cheaper than the LX and far cheaper than the EX.

All Honda are good for is their long time reputation for quality. Whether that's the case now, we won't know till the time comes for 02/03 owners selling their car in 05/06??

It is shocking to see what a used 98/99/00 Civic sells for at dealership. Some even asking for close to brand new car prices. Will this be true 4 years down the line? Only time can tell. If the Proteges, Sentras, Elantras, Focis hold up good, it'll be the end of Honda high resale value.

crikey · October 2002

I found a 2002 Si that was a dealer demo, it has 5000 miles on the odometer. Internet Salesgal offered it at $17,300.

And I thought my dealer was trying to screw me by offering a brand-new one with less than 10 miles for $16,999. I know I could get better, though.

gee35coupe · October 2002

In the Honda Si room...God forbid. Really 115 HP is fine. Older DX's had 96-106 HP. They sold like hotcakes. Everyone isn't out to do 0-60 runs. Many people care more about starting every morning and humming to work at 55 mph. Heck the Insight has less than 90 hp and Edmunds kept getting tickets. Camrys had 115 hp up til 1991 and the 626 4 cyl only made 125 hp until recently. It's just a advertising numbers game. A majority of actual consumers don't even know what grade oil goes in their car let alone how many hp, torque, or even number of valves thier car has. That's why the 5 speed xmission is dying in this country cause no one cares.

jfigueroa1 · October 2002

I bought one two month today. Been at the dealer 3 times and, the problem is not fix yet yes, the eng. is loud lot of road noise and when it rain louder. It is a very elegant good looking car but I do not think the car is worth 17,000 it should be around or between 13,500 and 16,500. oh did i mention it came with a tape player (cd is an option).
Greetings from sunny Miami.

trekkiehead · October 2002

Thanks for the A\C tip, I'll try it out tomorrow. Been away for a while, girl friend keeps me on the road. Tried my Si out (alone this time) on the autobahn between Darmstadt & Frankfurt. It does 130 MPH (210 KM) right before redline. Went 2-3 miles at this speed, was enough (I'm 45, not 25). Didn't really notice the VTEC coming in.
Yeah, the 5 yr old slides his feet over the plastic getting into the back, with gravel imbeded in his shoes. Thinking about tying him on the top. At least there's no more barfing...

gee35coupe · October 2002

Doesn't slam like the older ones. Here's a Dyno run

http://www.injen.com/webpages/testing/original_files/rd1575.jpg

It's pretty level compared to other vtec engines.

I hope you didn't pay 17000 for an LX coupe. Wow.

jfigueroa1 · October 2002

No way, I paid 16,200 out-the-door including the mug guard,carpet $200 in fuel cards and the rear wind.
Greetings from sunny Miami.

anonymousposts · October 2002

$16,200 out the door is far from $17,000.

I'll admit I am biased towards Honda. Every Honda I have owned (knock on wood) has been trouble-free, fun-to-drive, and has gotten great gas mileage compared to comparable offerings. And I'm sure this SI will do the same .. at least until I can get my hands on one of those EX V6 6-speed Accord Coupes

hamproof · October 2002

I'm actually close to selling my A4. Found a buyer. How easy is it to hardwire a V1 to the 02 SI? On the A4, there was an unused fuse that I connected the V1 to.

Anyway, a few months ago I actually *fake* a post saying I bought a urine yellow SI to replace a POS Escort I drove. Well, for kicks anyway since I was very annoyed at *someone*. Someone claimed she sold her 00 SI for more money than she paid for and she actually got her 02 SI for like $14k.

So, I'm in the market for real now this time looking to buy an 02 SI. Just got to decide on white or silver

Maybe 03 if it is the same price.

Oh.. btw, I claimed I sold the Escort and made $4k profit. So, the supposedly 02 SI I bought cost me ony $12k.

Yeah, very juvenile for a 30year old guy with way too much time on hand.

dfbidwell · October 2002

Hamproof, FYI: my silver Si has different shades of silver between the doors and the rest of the car. Take a close look and make sure that the Si you look at doesn't have the same.

gee35coupe · October 2002

She bought an 00 Si for $11k.
Drove it for 4 months/7000 miles.
Went into a Honda dealer who offered her $12,200 for it and gave a before tax price of $16385 for the 02 Si.

anonymousposts Aug 10, 2002 12:59pm

arriflex · October 2002

I went to a Nissan dealership to check out the new Z car(awesome) and while backing up I banged into a BMW. Ick! The bimmer had what looked like some sratches($400), my cars rear bumper was scratched, gouged and the corner ligth was hanging out($600). I get it fixed next month. Plus the silver dash is bubbling up and peeling and the car doesn't even have 4,000 miles on it.

greenguy · October 2002

Your dash on your Si is bubbling? Did you put any cleaning or shiny products on it? That just sounds strainge!
good luck with your fender bender...

hamproof · October 2002

Maybe you can try searching and look it up.

I would think it'll cost more than $400 to fix the Bummer

It is afterall the ultimate driving machine.

anonymousposts · October 2002

No dash bubble here but I did have to get a new windshield

Stupid rocks. Just about to hit 5,000 miles in only 2 months and have yet to have a problem. Hope it stays that way.

alex_mathews · October 2002

Anybody know if the prices being mentioned here have been gotten at any dealerships in NJ?

Thanks!

lachlanxg · November 2002

Hello All!

Hopefully by next June I will be able to buy my very first new car!! I am looking at the Black Civic SI and I was curious regarding the price I should negotiate. Now I know June is far off but I just need an idea. I heard stories of them selling for somewhere around 15k-17k. I was curious how I should negotiate that with the dealer. I want to get a rockin deal! Thanks

himiler · November 2002

June is a long way off, in terms of new car buying. By then, you'll probably be looking exclusively at 2003 models, which won't be discounted as aggressively as the '02's are right now.

Also, sporty cars tend to command a higher price when the summer months roll around, so unless you can locate a dealer who is choking on Si's, you might have to work hard to get one for even $17K.

Don't think that I'm trying to discourage you. The Si is a good car and a great value (at invoice).

frederic92025 · November 2002

I got mine four months ago and paid $17k. You can get a 2002 for $15k.
Now, the BIG problem, the car has just under 6000 miles and driving back from Palm Springs to San Diego, in the first mountain twisties..the engine check light came one and I couldn' t rev the engine past 4000 rpm, it was chocking!!! I got home (some 90 miles away) driving carefully. Bought gas and closed the gas tank thightly (per driver 's manual). A week later, in a nice curve, bham!!, the engine check light comes on again and the engines is chocking above 4000 rpm. The "service mgr" at the dealer says that he needs the car one day to check the emissions control, I think it' BS. Has anyone experienced this with their Si !?? I would like some feedback to talk with that guy.
Be careful the price is right, it's a great car but not up to par with Honda's reputation. I almost regret not getting the WRX.

lachlanxg · November 2002

Do not worry I am not discouraged. I am happy to hear that you think 17k is possible. I was just hearing these wild stories about 15k Civic Si's and flipped. I just want a fun car that will last me forever and this seems to be it. I love Honda's (Own a 98 Civic HB), and want another. I love Hatches to..mmmm..Black Civic SI

greenguy · November 2002

so buy one!

anonymousposts · November 2002

I have 5200 miles on my SI and not one problem to date (knock on wood), no rattles (again, knock on wood) and it's just as fun to drive now as the day I got it. Actually, it's more fun to drive than the day I got it because I don't have to baby the engine any more.

frederic92025 · November 2002

That's the response I got from Hoehn Honda in Carlsbad.
They told me the oil level was low, they added 3qts. Mario Garcia, the service rep suggested that I bring back the car in 1000 miles (@7000)to re-check.
PLz let me know if you get the same problem!

revka · November 2002

Sorry to hear about your vehicle problem. You may also want to post (copy/paste) your message in our Honda Civic Problems discussion. Good luck.

Revka

Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

dhooeusa · November 2002

OK, I just returned from a 4.5 year work assignment in the UK and I have to admit I was always amazed by the Civic "Type R" Does anyone know why these cars are not made available in the U.S.?

Just go here and see what we're missing!

http://www.honda.co.uk/

At 15,995 sterling pounds (on the road price), that's approx. $24,000 USD, it's a 200 hp screamer!

It's my opinion that the Si body style will soon catch on in the U.S. and Swindon will not be able to cope with the demand from the U.S. market. IF only we could get the Type R's...left hand drive, of course!

DH

hamproof · November 2002

doesn't matter. In this country, Civic is known to be a cheap commuter car. It's all about 3 pointed stars, blue/white propellers and big L. Just not possible to market a $24k Civic (CTR). As an Acura it is almost possible.

Hatchbacks have been relegated to cheap cars. Giving ways to SUV and euro wagons. I'll be more than happy to see US drivers giving up their stupid SUVs and start driving hatches, wagons and minivans with farmers and contruction workers driving their heavy duty trucks and maybe eco-friendly SUVs.

himiler · November 2002

Hatchbacks no longer carry the same "cheap car" stigma that they once did.

If you're looking for the real reason why we don't have the CTR, look no futher than the RSX-S.

Given a choice between the two, I'd choose the CTR because of its cloth seats and lighter weight.

hamproof · November 2002

Randomly ask your colleague what do they think about a Civic Hatchback? Once you get the answer, tell them it has 160HP. When you get their answer, tell them what if it has 200HP and sells for $24k.

Hatchbacks still have a stigma to them. The most recent evidence of this is the abandonment of the Saab 93 hatchback giving way to a new 4 door sedan. If you read any of those reviews, you'll see Saab abandon the hatch coz' it is associated w/ cheapness.

Btw, I'm not talking about the Integra/RSX type of hatches. I'm talking about Si/GTi/ZX3/Metros type of hatches.

You can see why BMW stopped selling the 318ti. c230 is a half-baked idea by MB and it fails miserably. Other than the GTi which is the costliest of them all other than the RSX, which hot hatch is over $25k??

Oh yeah, why do you think we don't have a CTR? That's coz' Honda knows they can't sell a Civic hatchback costing $24k to the American consumers. Try selling a Civic at more than $20k is like climbing Mount Everest. Throw in a hatchback, it is impossible.

greenguy · November 2002

If I was going to spend $24 LARGE on a car I would buy a WRX! Dont get me wrong, I love my Si, but the dream car for the last 5 years has been a WRX. But for $20K, It might be more apealing.

gee35coupe · November 2002

Do a limited run of them like Mazda on the MP3. Like a 1000 of them. They'd sell here. I can't wait to get that CTR body kit available in the U.S. Speedvision has the British Touring Car Championships where the CTR is winning too. That's another thing. Honda has racing heritage in Europe where they like to race on tracks that have curves going in each direction. In this country no one really knows Honda has a pedigree that goes beyond dependability and efficiency.

anonymousposts · November 2002

If Honda brough the Type R Civic over I doubt they would charge $24,000 for it. A more realistic price would probably be $21-$22 ... in line with the MazdaSpeed. But the HP war has just increased because now they have to keep up with the 215HP in the Neon. Talk about wasted HP.

hamproof · November 2002

car. It still is now to many people in US. Just because the Neon was a cheap car when it came out in 93 or 94, that doesn't mean it'll remain cheap forever. Keep in mind the SRT doesn't have Neon anywhere on the car, but we all know it is a souped up Neon. Give them time and I'm sure a Neon will be as good as a Civic in the future - reliability. Once they achieved that, Honda will have to do better to compete which is good for all of us.

If the CTR comes over, it'll not have 200HP. It'll have slightly less than the RSX-S. So, maybe at 190HP. But you are right. Realistically, it'll be at $21-$22k. Unfortunately, I doubt it'll be a CTR. Most probably a higher powered SI called SI-R (not to be confused w/ the SIR in Canada). Even at $22k, it is still costly for a Civic.

ranald · November 2002

I'd place more confidence in the Korean manufacturers eventually reaching Honda/Toyota levels of reliability than Chrysler.

When Honda's were seen as cheap cars, Honda was a relatively small, inexperienced carmaker with limited resources. As they achieved success and gained in experience and available resources they applied that to their cars until their cars were as good as anyones. At least one Korean company (Hyundai) seems to be on that same path. Their cars still aren't up to the standards of the industry leaders, but they're getting there.

The Neon is a product of a major car company, a company with as much experience and resources as anyone (except maybe GM). The cars from that major car company have suffered from many of the same flaws for *decades*.

The Neon has been largely the same car since it was introduced. (Well they got rid of the 3 speed auto at least.) Compare that with what the competition has done. When it was introduced, the Neon seemed like a pretty good car compared to the competition. Now, compared to the improved competition, it is seen as an unrefined bottom-feeder, competing on price alone. (Sure, it still has a few virtues that make it seem like a "high quality" bottom-feeder, like surprisingly good handling.)

There is no reason to assume that the Neon will magically become a better more reliable car just because other manufacturers improved their cars, in fact the Neon has been continuously losing ground to its competition since it was introduced. The SRT interests me because of the potentially stunning price/performance ratio, but I remain skeptical about how well put together and reliable the cars will be. I imagine they'll be kind of like a new GS-T, with more interior room but uglier. And like the GS-T, I see them as being easily-modded, great cheap performance cars, as long as they keep running (which may not be long).

hamproof · November 2002

I asked this last week. Anyone knows how one can hardwire a Valentine 1 to the SI?? Can't find anything specific to an Si on google.com. I hardwired it to my A4 via an un-used fuse. A4 is getting replaced w/ an Si soon. Thanks.

revdrluv · November 2002

22k costly for a civic? Have you optioned up a civic EX coupe lately? Get most of the goods and throw on the FP factory sport package and you have a car easily pushing in to 20k+ territory. They might not all sell for so much in the end, but plenty of them actually will.

crikey · November 2002

This was the latest offer from the dealer with another dealer trying to beat it by 110% of the difference. I think I'll still wait a bit longer. With the half-point Fed Cut and a stalled car buying environment, I think the price will still go lower. Everyone, please don't buy a car for a month! You'll see that the prices will go lower with lower interest rates to boot.

moparbad · November 2002

Was quoted price of $15,995 for new Si last week. In a month or two I'm not sure if many 2002 Si will be left. They are getting scarce around Chicago area.

himiler · November 2002

Um, sorry, but isn't the $24,000 RSX-S a hatchback? Who would buy a $24K CTR instead of a RSX-S? Right here, mister, for reasons already stated.

And as far a Saab ditching the 9-3 hatch, that was GM's call, not Saab's. It had everything to do with maintaining rigidity in a shared platform, and nothing to do with a perceived "cheapness." Also note that the Saab faithful are screaming bloody murder, and that they never worried about the fact that their $30K+ cars have a hatch. In fact, that's one of the reasons why they like them.

Granted, Saab buyers are a weird bunch -- and proud of it, too -- but the lack of a hatch in the new 9-3 says more about Saab following the current market trends than what it says about what Saab buyers want.

hamproof · November 2002

In anycase, the RSX-S is a hatchback, but it doesn't looks like the wagon type hatch the Si is. From a far, if you are not familiar w/ an RSX, how can you tell it from a coupe or hatch?? Assuming of course the rear wipers are not on the car. For the average joe on the street, it looks like a 2 door coupe and they see the Acura emblem.

However, when they see a hatch style of the Civic, first thing that comes to mind is cheap. Maybe I'm wrong but you are free to ask your colleagues and see what they think of hatches that look like Civic and Metros. Anyway, then the see the Honda Civic emblem. First thing that come to mind? I bet it'll be small, cheap car. Period.

I said the reason why a CTR can't sell here (for a good profit margin for Honda) is because it is a Honda Civic. But for you and me and probably the other readers of this forum, I would take a CTR over RSX-S coz' I like the wagon style hatch of the CTR over the coupe looking hatch of the RSX. I'm not vain nor do I care about the emblem. So what if my neighbors or valet attendant sees me pulling up in a Honda? Besides, I'm going from an entry level lux car, 01 Audi A4 to a Civic Si. Do I care what other people say? Heck no!

Whether it is GM's call or Saab's call, it doesn't matter. If GM or Saab doesn't think it'll sell more 93 in a sedan form, they'll never abandon it. Car makers are in the market to make not loose money. So, do you think Saab will sell less 93 this year coz' of the change? I think not.

Saab Article Link

Here's a direct quote from C&D/Saab:

Saab contends that shoppers at the entry level of the luxury market (that includes the Audi A4, BMW 3-series, and Volvo S60) consider the hatchback the automotive equivalent of double-knit polyester. We would add that the current 9-3 is not as luxurious or sporting as those other cars, either.

Enthusiast of Saabs will always like the hatchback, but will they buy the new 93? Sure they will. People get emotional initially but they'll warm up to the new style. Saab will get new customers to boot in the end w/ the new style.

hamproof · November 2002

Please do say if that includes the dest. charge or not. Obviously do not include tax, title, registration, doc fee etc. Just the base price of the car (+ dest). That way we can consistently compare the prices. Just a suggestion. You are free to disagree.

theracoon · November 2002

I agree with the cost of the car + destination charges, but I would also add dealer documentation fees. My experience is that most dealers won't negotiate these, even when competing against a dealer with a much lower fee.

Tax, Title, and registration should be excluded since they are specific to the state and county where you live.

JM2C

hamproof · November 2002

though there's a proposal to increase this to $200 or so. Some states are known to charge $200-$300. Not sure if the state is ripping off the customer or the dealership is.

Anyway, what's the best price anyone has gotten for an 03 Si? Please list state too, if possible.

hamproof · November 2002

paying $28k for an Accord. It is too much money! The only Civic that will sell for around $20k is the hybrid Civic.

If you are paying $20k for a regular Civic EX or loaded Accord EX to the wazoo ($26k), you are paying for unnecessary things in the car. But it is your money. You are free to spend it how you see fit.

Oh yeah, RSX also has a factory performance package though it is mainly visual. Larger rims, spoilers, exhaush (??) etc. for $4k too. I think an online car magazines says it is about 30% overpriced compared to aftermarket, but since you are getting full manuf. warranty + being able to finance the money, it is acceptable. $4k would push the RSX-S to about $26k-$27k BEFORE taxes and that my friend, ain't cheap. For that money, $27-$32k, you are in these cars territory - A4, 325, 93, S60, CL/CL-S, C240, CTS, IS300.

moparbad · November 2002

A price always includes destination. Without destination it is not the price is it?

hamproof · November 2002

Link to www.vtec.net

It is in the news item. Should be there for a few days.

Side view sure looks like a Foci! But I like it

Moparbad - I agree with you. Price should include destination. But you'll be surprised some people will qoute you prices (dealers/friends/family/aliens) and not include dest. just to *show* that they got a good deal.

But it is always good to be specific.

gee35coupe · November 2002

Should I get a loaded Civic or a base Accord. If you want a 20,000 Civic buy it. There are people who buy a brand new car slam it to the ground and yank the engine out of it for something better. Just because that's not your cup of tea, why act like it doesn't happen? I mean there was a car built from the Festiva called the Shogun which had the V6 from the SHO in it. Costed a lot more than a regular Festiva but I'm sure he sold a couple of them.
Very few cars are sold for MSRP so even if the price of a "real" Si was 21,000 only a few people would probably pay that much. The rest would be haggling in the sub 20,000 range just like the 17,000 Si prices that we have now.
In addition hatchbacks only say "cheap" in this country. Even if they only sold a few of them here they would still sell enough of them to make money in other places with more open minds. Peugeot, Ford, Citroen, Toyota, etc all make hatches for Europe where they sell like hotcakes for the space efficiency. Importing a few of them into the U.S. wouldn't hurt.

hamproof · November 2002

But it is not just a matter of putting them onto a ship and shipping them over. The biggest hurdle I believe is to get it certified for US market (crash and emissions). The very same reason why the Lotus Elise is still not available here. Can you imagine what will happen is an Exploder smacks right in front of the Elise??

It is up to the individual to get a loaded Civic or base Accord. I guess I was implying the average American will tend to spend more than what they can afford and get a mid-level Accord

Seriously, you cannot tell me that America is not a country driven by name brands. Sure, you and I might not care if we drive a Honda or Acura, Toyota or Lexus, VW or Audi, Nissan or Infiniti, but there are people who do and I do believe a majority of the average joes and janes care.

Honda can bring a CTR over if they want but the bean counters will probably not agree. There's a reason why we have an RSX-S here but the rest of the world has a CTR. Wagon like hatches DO NOT sell well here other than the euro Audi/BMW/MB/Saab/Volvo (Volvo is a stretch). Even those are considered 5 doors. RSX is a hatch yes, but it is a different hatch from the CTR.

Btw, if Honda brings the CTR over (w/o decontenting it - how could they anymore :P) and sells it for $21k MSRP, I would be more than happy to eat my words. In this aspect I agree w/ anonymouspost. CTR will cost in the range of $22-$24k. It cost that much in Europe. With the additional cost to get it certified for US emissions, crashworthiness etc. who knows how much it'll cost. I bet the bean counters will step in and say no! But I'm ready to admit I'm wrong if that's the case. Just make sure I've first dips on a CTR.

gsgman69 · November 2002

Yes, I do think it will hurt sales among Saab loyalist and this may not be balanced out with new converts to the brand. 18 months ago the car at the top of my list was the Sentra Spec V. Then I heard about the Civic Si, Focus SVT coming out. Eventually I opted for a GTI, but the main reason the Sentra fell out of contention was that it was a sedan, and a small sedan at that w/o the versatility of my hatch.

I think the perception in the U.S. is that hatchbacks are the cars forced onto us during the twin oil crisis of the 70's. Those cars were slow, economical, odd looking and didn't fit the American standard of what a car should look like. Unfortunately this has carried over today with many people born before 1970. The youth of this country do not have any negative stigmas with hatches or even wagons. That's why were are getting all of these crossover vehicles that automakers will never describes as wagons. Especially in this SUV era where utility is prized above the driving experience it makes little sense to sedanize everything.

GM should of looked at Saab as unique and thus more valuable as being one of the only luxury cars with a hatch, but they really are a company deserving of a credit rating just 2 notches above junk bond status.

theracoon · November 2002

In some states the doc fees vary by dealer. While looking for an '02 Coupe earlier this year the fees quoted by three different dealers were $40, $90, and $190. All dealers were no more than 30 miles apart.

JM2C

Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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