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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier
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Here's some data from JD Power.
Nameplate Rankings Reported Problems Per 100 Vehicles
1. Lexus 173
2. Infiniti 219
3. Jaguar 250
4. Lincoln 253
5. Acura 255
6. Honda 278
7. Toyota 278
8. Cadillac 285
9. Porsche 292
10. Mercedes-Benz 296
What else you gonna buy in this price range? Speaking of Civics.
The 1997 Honda Civic garnered top honors as the Most Dependable Compact Car of the 1997 model year.
Ranking second is Infiniti, followed by Jaguar. The highest-rated non-luxury brand is Honda, which takes sixth spot in the annual Power Vehicle Dependability Study.
The report monitors the number and type of problems consumers have with their four- and five-year-old vehicles and covers more than 100 specific problem areas. The dependability study for 2001 was based on responses from 28,415 original vehicle owners, and owners who bought used 1997-model vehicles.
Listed as below average in long-term dependability are, in alphabetical order: Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Eagle, GMC, Hyundai, Isuzu, Jeep, Kia, Land Rover, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Plymouth, Pontiac, Suzuki, Volvo and Volkswagen. Power does not publicly release the below-average rankings.
But Power does name the top vehicles in each category, and here Toyota holds an impressive six first-place spots with its Tacoma, T100, 4Runner and Supra models. Lexus garners two spots with its LS 400 and LX 450, and Honda holds two top spots with its CR-V and Civic.
Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2001 Vehicle Dependability Study
I link you to:
http://www.aei.ca/~gregoire/claude.html
or http://www.geocities.com/plumraptor/
http://www.geocities.com/tekyle2000/home.htm
It's all over the place that the Chrysler transmission is problematic. Along with the Windstar.
http://www.pittsburgh.com/partners/wpxi/consumer/0927_windstartranny.html
Like I said..What else are you gonna buy? The Civic may not be perfect but what do you think will do you any better over time. All information you can gather points at the Civic or the Corrolla or the Protege. And each of them have their pluses and negatives.
My purchase of the Si was based on fun/value/reliability and I expect that my Honda Si will not be disapointing over time. A Matrix or Vibe would be what I would likely choose if not for the Si.
JD Power and Consumer Reports can be cited until I am as blue in the face as anonymousposts to support many different viewpoints. The websites you listed are just private consumer webpages. Is this the most relevant info. you could find?
What is your point? That I should have purchased a 1997 Civic?
My point is that the Civic Si may potentially have more problems than other Civics. Swindon product is unproven in US.
I think the engine is powerful enough, but that new Greddy turbocharger looks very tempting, especially if it can get the engine to pump out 230hp!
moparbad, I too am older than the target audience. But hey, who says we older folks can't have fun?
Also, now that certain people have had plenty of opportunity to express their different points of view regarding certain Civic Si problems/issues, I'm going to suggest that you put your differences aside... and let's move onto another Civic Si subject.
Please note: any further back/forth bickering between certain parties here (I'm sure you know who you are) will be subject to automatic deletion. Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions/comments. Thanks!
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
Also, all of the Civic production plants use the same processes and equipment so there shouldn't be a difference between a Civic built in Japan, the US, or England.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=27
$14,599?? That's cheap. Wonder what kind of charges you have to pay on top of that and does it include destination and how many do they have left? If you think thats cheap wait and see what happens to the prices once the 200HP SI hits the dealers.
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
The Si R is already available in the US though it is not thru Honda USA. http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0212scc_civichybrid/index.html Having a RSX drivetrain is easy fit into the Si. I know 99% of us are not going to transplant motors. I hope Honda does import the Si R to the US.
question to gee35- how cold is it in Antartica and what viscosity motor oil is used?
If they put 200HP in the SI .. I'm trading mine for it. Along with that 200HP engine will probably come other numerous upgrades. Hope by then somebody else wants one of the 02's.
My ownership has been as close to flawless as anyone could ask. I am very satisfied and thank myself everyday that I didnt buy the SVTfocus!
best of luck on your deccision!
And now back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si / Sir.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Last week I bought a silver 02 Si from Dobbs Honda in Tucson. I got it for $16,821 (+TTL), which is more than I wanted to pay. I showed them the ad from Chicago, but the sales manager said he would not match it. Thought about a trip to Chi-town, but I don't have the vacation time to burn.
The good news is I got some "free" things: splash guards (used to call them mud flaps), Honda pinstriping (light grey, didn't like at first, but it's okay), window tint (must have in AZ), and floor mats. Not too bad.
Anyway, I'm happy and got the last new silver 02 in town. I've got 850 miles on it so far and haven't lost any oil.
I had a white 89 Si, and enjoyed it. This one kicks it's butt! As some reviews have said, it's not as rev-happy down low, but it's got tons more torque and power. The seats are awesome, the 4-wheel disc brakes are great, and it's just fun to drive.
I know Dobbs has a black 02 Si left, and Beaudry Honda was advertising a white 02 for $16,820.
Take care out there.
It's just the oil consumption problem that puzzles me.
Today I took a look at the latest CAR mag which is being published in the UK.
They're talking about their experiences with the long term Civic TypeR which is being build in Swindon, on the same assembly line as your Civic Si/SiR.
They praise the car and its performance.
They also mentioned about some unusual for Honda feedback coming from the British owners.
According to them the Swindon-built Civic quality doesn't seem to be on par with the previous models.
Lots of complaints about excessive oil consumption - I mean EXCESSIVE (as much as several liters per 7,000 miles in some cases), easily chipped paint, rattles, easily scratchable dashboard and some other things.
The funny thing is that when the editors contacted Honda of UK demanding an explanation for the most common problems the factory just blamed the dealers???
The oil consumption problem has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.
Sounds like the new Honda engines do like to burn oil and not just during the break-in period.
What could be the reason? An engine design? Hard to break-in internals?
Or something else?
Thanks for your concern; however, I think our Honda Civic problems discussion might be a more appropriate place to discuss this subject. Not to mention, this subject has been rehashed here a few times already... mainly sparked on by articles and rumors..., not by actual Civic Si owner (member) experiences posted. Anyway, just my observation.
So let's try to stick to topics that are more specifically related to Civic Si ownership and shopping experiences. ;-)
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
So nice of you.
And if you feel so unsecure and threatened I suggest you contact the above mentioned mag - one of the best magazines in the industry - and tell them how dare they try to question the Civics build quality.
You will also notice that Honda recommends NOT to change the oil before it's recommended intervals which is 10,000 miles for normal conditions in the Civic. Considering that most people change their oil within the first couple thousand miles to get rid of the break-in oil they would not even notice the oil consumption. 10,000 miles is on the high end of recommended intervals especially for a main stream car. With that increased interval there is more opportunity for oil consumption to become apparent. Most people wouldn't notice or care if their car burned 1 qt every oil change if they performed them every 3,000-5,000 miles.
My question wasn't about the break-in period.
Any engine - "high" performance or not - WILL consume oil in its first 2,000-3,000 miles. It's completely normal.
Every car does that.
It just seems that a lot of people here were experiencing unusually high, even for the break-in period, oil consumption rates.
I didn't think too much of it untill the CAR mag column caught my attention.
I just wanna know if people here are experiencing the problem after the 5,000 mile mark.
The modern cars, even the cheapest ones, don't burn much oil if any between oil changes(no need to add).
And just about any manufacturer requires 5,000-7,500 oil change intervals nowdays.
In addition, if some Civics do burn at least 1 qt every oil change, then you've got a PROBLEM.
Even if the consumption rate stays the same and doesn't increase with time as the car ages(which would be very unusual),the burning oil WILL contaminate the catalitic converter, O2 sensors, spark plugs and create other emission problems faster than you think, especially if you REALLY care about your engine and don't mind spending on certain high-end fully synthetic oils which contain higher amounts of antiwear & extreme pressure additives (zinc, phosphorus etc).
I'm here not to "bash" the Civic. I've got better things to do with my time.
I've been considering the Civic before and might buy one in the near future and want to know about the potential problems.
BTW o'so passionately hated by you POS Focus (and you even never owned one, hmmm...) uses the same very thin 5W20 weighted oil and doesn't burn a "drop" between changes according to many owners I hear from, if you must know.
But, none of those cars used 5W-20 oil, they all used 5W-30.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have been angonizing over either an 02 Civic Si or O2 GTI. Both are great cars and both seem to have their potential mechanical & quality control problems. I am on the verge of getting a GTI next week but would like to read more about what people on your side of the pond are saying about the Si oil consumption before I make a final leap.
I agree with you about the oil usage. I put 5w-20 in 97 Del sol with 75k & my 01 Tribute with 26K. Both use less than a quart per 6K miles.
1. Many cars do use oil during break-in.
2. No one here or on Si.com (Civic performance board) has complained of oil consumption after 10,000 or so miles.
3. No one has complained of any of the other maladies that MIGHT happen if the oil was being consumed due to a malfunctioning engine.
4. This "problem" only happens in the Civic Si which happens to share it's engine with the RSX. Same initial problems there. Along with the S2000 which also has a even more performance-enhanced version of this engine.
5. If you really wanted to find out about the Si you would have read back in the forum and found that this has been already discussed at length here and has been found that it is greatly dependent on the break-in behavior of the owner.
So if you really were that "curious" you would have actually read this thread or some of the others on Edmunds. But you chose to create an inflammatory post.
As far as owning a Focus. How absurd? Why would anyone who has access to the internet buy a Focus. Talk about not doing research.
Meca check the Si vs. GTI forum for the latest on the VW/Civic debacle.
For more SI enthusiasts try google. There are numerous Civic forums where any and all problems would appear. Again go to google and enter "Ford Focus automotive problems" then enter "Honda Civic automotive problem" and you'll wonder why anyone would consider a Focus.
I this true? I don't recall anyone posting that has 10K on their 02 Si yet. I would love to hear from some owners with over 10K miles!
I've read many happy GTI owners too. The common thread seems to be...Great drive but kinda problematic. Verified by checking online and in consumer magazines. And it's not 50 to one. VW doesn't sell that many cars let alone GTI's. In addition most parts on the GTI translate to the Jetta/Golf so you can research the GTI by checkin out the Jetta or Golf. Pretty good initial quality but poor long term.
It's amazing that you are doing such thorough research on the Civic before making a purchase but you currently have a Focus? Hmm....
Also, as I mentioned above, this discussion was specifically created for Honda Civic Si owners/shoppers to discuss their experiences. This discussion is not about the Civic R, VW GTI, Ford Focus, or overall Honda build quality. We have other discussions where you can discuss these subjects. To start, here's Civic Type R, Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI and Ford Focus ZX3/SVT vs. Honda Civic Si.
Lastly, it is not appropriate for members to rehash negative issues in our discussions... simply for the purpose of bashing a particular make/model. Needless to say, it drags down the morale of our regular participants (that are NOT experiencing any problems) when negative issues are constantly being rehashed (especially by non-owners) in our main vehicle discussions. As mentioned in our membership agreement: "We want to maintain an inviting atmosphere for all our members."
This is not to say that problems about Civic Si cannot be discussed at Town Hall. However, this is one of the reasons we have created problem discussions (i.e. Honda Civic problems) which are separate and apart from out main discussions; problems can get the attention they need in these areas without disrupting our main discussions. Hope you understand. Btw, if anyone here would like me to start up a Civic Si problems discussion, please let me know.
Please note: any further off topic, or disruptive messages, will be subject to automatic deletion. Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions or comments. And now, back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si / Sir. Thanks for your participation. ;-)
To Vapd- I send you an email and it bounced back. Please let me know what your correct email is. Also, be aware that you must have a valid email address in your user profile in order to maintain your membership at Town Hall. Thanks!
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host