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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Of your Honda, what else are you going to buy in it's price range?
    Here's some data from JD Power.
    Nameplate Rankings Reported Problems Per 100 Vehicles
    1. Lexus 173
    2. Infiniti 219
    3. Jaguar 250
    4. Lincoln 253
    5. Acura 255
    6. Honda 278
    7. Toyota 278
    8. Cadillac 285
    9. Porsche 292
    10. Mercedes-Benz 296

    What else you gonna buy in this price range? Speaking of Civics.

    The 1997 Honda Civic garnered top honors as the Most Dependable Compact Car of the 1997 model year.
    Ranking second is Infiniti, followed by Jaguar. The highest-rated non-luxury brand is Honda, which takes sixth spot in the annual Power Vehicle Dependability Study.

    The report monitors the number and type of problems consumers have with their four- and five-year-old vehicles and covers more than 100 specific problem areas. The dependability study for 2001 was based on responses from 28,415 original vehicle owners, and owners who bought used 1997-model vehicles.

    Listed as below average in long-term dependability are, in alphabetical order: Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Eagle, GMC, Hyundai, Isuzu, Jeep, Kia, Land Rover, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Plymouth, Pontiac, Suzuki, Volvo and Volkswagen. Power does not publicly release the below-average rankings.

    But Power does name the top vehicles in each category, and here Toyota holds an impressive six first-place spots with its Tacoma, T100, 4Runner and Supra models. Lexus garners two spots with its LS 400 and LX 450, and Honda holds two top spots with its CR-V and Civic.

    Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2001 Vehicle Dependability Study
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Actually Anony was dead on on the Chrysler transmission thing.

    I link you to:

    http://www.aei.ca/~gregoire/claude.html

    or http://www.geocities.com/plumraptor/

    http://www.geocities.com/tekyle2000/home.htm

    It's all over the place that the Chrysler transmission is problematic. Along with the Windstar.

    http://www.pittsburgh.com/partners/wpxi/consumer/0927_windstartranny.html


    Like I said..What else are you gonna buy? The Civic may not be perfect but what do you think will do you any better over time. All information you can gather points at the Civic or the Corrolla or the Protege. And each of them have their pluses and negatives.

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The JDPower Initial Quality for 2002 does not list a Honda as #1 for any segment. http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/pressrelease.asp?ID=2002040 Corolla beat the Civic and Chevy Malibu and Buick Century ousted the Accord.

    My purchase of the Si was based on fun/value/reliability and I expect that my Honda Si will not be disapointing over time. A Matrix or Vibe would be what I would likely choose if not for the Si.

    JD Power and Consumer Reports can be cited until I am as blue in the face as anonymousposts to support many different viewpoints. The websites you listed are just private consumer webpages. Is this the most relevant info. you could find?

    What is your point? That I should have purchased a 1997 Civic?

    My point is that the Civic Si may potentially have more problems than other Civics. Swindon product is unproven in US.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    for me, would be...17" or even 18" rims -- SEMA Sis mostly wore 18" and I watched a show on Speed or ESPN that fitted 18" rims, after trying out 17" ones. The 18" looked better as it filled up the wheelwell much better. That, and maybe lowering springs.

    I think the engine is powerful enough, but that new Greddy turbocharger looks very tempting, especially if it can get the engine to pump out 230hp! :)

    moparbad, I too am older than the target audience. But hey, who says we older folks can't have fun?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Have you seen many Civic Si in Antartica? How many Honda dealerships are there in Antartica?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and stay on topic. Discussion of Honda fanatics, bashers, and Odyssey/Accord transmissions (post is off topic for this discussion. Okay?

    Also, now that certain people have had plenty of opportunity to express their different points of view regarding certain Civic Si problems/issues, I'm going to suggest that you put your differences aside... and let's move onto another Civic Si subject.

    Please note: any further back/forth bickering between certain parties here (I'm sure you know who you are) will be subject to automatic deletion. Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions/comments. Thanks!

    Revka
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    There is only one 12V accesory outlet in the 2002 Si and I would like two. I checked with dealer and the cigarratte lighter accessory replaces the power outlet and does not add an additional outlet. Has anyone figured out how to add another plug? The unused plug to the right of the shifter is where I am trying to locate an addition 12V accessory outlet. Do you think I could just split off of the existing power wire that supplies the current accessory outlet?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What does the EP stand for? There is a site about the Si called EPHatch and I was curious if anyone knew the meaning of EP.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    Ep is the code for the chassie (sp?), and 3 is ver. 3
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    25K is pretty good considering what you get. It will have uprated shocks, springs and brakes vrs the RSX-S plus those great seats. Of course the price of the WRX is so cheap here vrs what they command for it elsewhere in the world. I think cars in the US are much cheaper than Europe and Japan. If they can import a Civic Type-R for 25K what would Honda sell it for when they bring it over?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    $14,599 at Colonial Honda. http://www.colonialhonda.com/ Seems like Walmart lately as the prices keep going lower. Anyone see Si for less? I have an unconfirmed report of $13,750 but I need to see it to believe it.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I thought twice about the SI being built in Swindon too but they have been building engines there since 89, cars since 92 (Euro Accord was introduced from this plant), and they recently added another plant from which a few 02 CR-V's have been exported to the US.


    Also, all of the Civic production plants use the same processes and equipment so there shouldn't be a difference between a Civic built in Japan, the US, or England.



    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=27

    $14,599?? That's cheap. Wonder what kind of charges you have to pay on top of that and does it include destination and how many do they have left? If you think thats cheap wait and see what happens to the prices once the 200HP SI hits the dealers.

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The dealership that advertised $14,599 has two or three Si's left, the dealer in Chicago that advertised $14,933 has more than 10 2K2 Si's. So far the lowest prices on 2003 Si is $16,999. I'm sure this is lowering resale value which is painful to watch even though I have no plan to sell my Si.
  • tpricetprice Member Posts: 46
    I just purchased Si last week for $16,500 (+Tax and Title)and was quite happy. 3 other local dealers did not want to compete with the deal so felt good. I suppose I'm starting to feel like some of those who purchased at MSRP in the spring and watched prices fall. As bad as I'm feeling, this makes their situation that much worse! I just don't want the bottom to fall completely out of the resale market for these cars. I've owned a lot of Honda's and have never had that kind of problem - hope this doesn't signal a change of luck! I'm up to 600 miles and and still happy with the decision to get the car.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Congrats on the SI. Did you buy a 02 or 03? And what color?
  • tpricetprice Member Posts: 46
    I went with a 2002 black Si. I think I've had about every color of car available - but really like black - especially when it's clean! They wanted $17,750 for the 2003 and I couldn't justify the extra $$. From what I'm seeing here it looks like the 03's are already dropping into the sub-$17K range. Again, I really like the vehicle and am happy that I got it - I just don't want the bottom to fall out of the resale value. I've turned over a lot of 2-3 year old Honda's which has been made possible through them retaining such high resale values.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and congrats on your 2002 Black Si! Thanks for sharing the pricing details. Also, hope you've been able to work out the other issues you mentioned here before. We look forward to hearing more about your Civic Si experience. Happy motoring!

    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The Si will likely hold it's value better than it's competitors. It is a buyers market for vehicles right now and it will take some time for this to change. If the Si becomes popular as a car to customize the resale value will increase. There were a lot of Si being shown at SEMA and if the parts start becoming available it will increase the popularity of the Si. At $17,500 and below the Si is a good value in my opinion. At less than $15K it is a steal.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Honda is going to drop the 200hp engine in the Si. I'm getting one if that happens.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.evolutionimports.net/


    The Si R is already available in the US though it is not thru Honda USA. http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0212scc_civichybrid/index.html Having a RSX drivetrain is easy fit into the Si. I know 99% of us are not going to transplant motors. I hope Honda does import the Si R to the US.


    question to gee35- how cold is it in Antartica and what viscosity motor oil is used?

  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    It feels like Anartica here in GA right now. Brrrr ... at least the SI heats up quickly.

    If they put 200HP in the SI .. I'm trading mine for it. Along with that 200HP engine will probably come other numerous upgrades. Hope by then somebody else wants one of the 02's.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    tprice: My last 3 cars were black and while I liked the look of the black SI I just couldn't bring myself to buy another black car. At least with the white I don't have to worry about scratches that much.
  • dfbidwelldfbidwell Member Posts: 21
    When I use regular fuel I hear my engine pinging, dieseling, pre-igniting, whatever you want to call it. It happens around 3K RPMs. Does anyone else have this problem? I don't have an issue with putting premium grade fuel in my car but it kind of upsets me that the manufacturer recommends regular octane and yet I have this problem.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    What kind of gas are you using and what area do you live in? I use mostly premium but when I do use regular I haven't noticed any negative effect on the engine.
  • dfbidwelldfbidwell Member Posts: 21
    I religiously use Exxon gas. I live in Northern VA. When I took my car into the dealer, I had a mechanic ride along and he heard the pinging. He called it pre-ignition. I guess the dealer called a Honda hotline and they recommended that I use premium gasoline for "the next few tanks." I used premium and it definitely cleared up the sound. I used premium for 8 full tanks of gas and I recently tried going to regular and I hear the noise again. It's not easy to hear. I only hear it when the windows are up and the radio is off.
  • jakep15jakep15 Member Posts: 1
    I have read several posts on this board regarding oil consumption in the 02/03 SIs. I have been looking at the SI as an affordable performance hatchback, BUT am a bit concerned and curious about the oil "problem". I have owned new American, Japanese, German and British autos and have NEVER experienced oil consumption with a new engine. Does anyone know of an official Honda explanation for this prob.? What do you think of the engine balance shafts placement in the oil pan? My son told me he has read that the revs of these balancers froths the oil and heats it up. Anyone else aware of this and do you think this might be the cause of the oil consumption????
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Not rare. Many engine consume oil during break in. Check the long terms in the car mags. It's not unheard of to burn a couple quarts in the first few thousand miles. If it's still severe after 5 or so thousand miles then there may be a problem.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I lost about 1/2 quart in the first 1k mi. then between 2-6k i lost another 1/2q. but it has been full sinse. I dont think its anything to panic about. Realize that 5-20w oil is VERY thin. When piston rings are in the process of setting, the thin oil will get through.
    My ownership has been as close to flawless as anyone could ask. I am very satisfied and thank myself everyday that I didnt buy the SVTfocus!
    best of luck on your deccision!
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    to let you know about our new Ford Focus ZX3/SVT vs. Honda Civic Si discussion. If you have any insights to share on this subject, please join us there. Thanks for your participation!

    And now back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si / Sir.

    Revka

    Host

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • siarizonasiarizona Member Posts: 15
    Hi everyone. This is my first time posting and wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted in the past, it helped me make the decision to buy an Si.

    Last week I bought a silver 02 Si from Dobbs Honda in Tucson. I got it for $16,821 (+TTL), which is more than I wanted to pay. I showed them the ad from Chicago, but the sales manager said he would not match it. Thought about a trip to Chi-town, but I don't have the vacation time to burn.

    The good news is I got some "free" things: splash guards (used to call them mud flaps), Honda pinstriping (light grey, didn't like at first, but it's okay), window tint (must have in AZ), and floor mats. Not too bad.

    Anyway, I'm happy and got the last new silver 02 in town. I've got 850 miles on it so far and haven't lost any oil.

    I had a white 89 Si, and enjoyed it. This one kicks it's butt! As some reviews have said, it's not as rev-happy down low, but it's got tons more torque and power. The seats are awesome, the 4-wheel disc brakes are great, and it's just fun to drive.

    I know Dobbs has a black 02 Si left, and Beaudry Honda was advertising a white 02 for $16,820.

    Take care out there.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I have 6,600 miles on my SI and it's running like a top. Can't think of any complaints other than wishing they had put the 200HP engine in it to begin with. But the 160HP engine probably keeps me and my boyfriend out of alot of trouble.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Congrats on your new car siarizona. Silver is a good color for the car and looks awesome with the Type R kit on it.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I don't own a Civic.
    It's just the oil consumption problem that puzzles me.
    Today I took a look at the latest CAR mag which is being published in the UK.
    They're talking about their experiences with the long term Civic TypeR which is being build in Swindon, on the same assembly line as your Civic Si/SiR.
    They praise the car and its performance.
    They also mentioned about some unusual for Honda feedback coming from the British owners.
    According to them the Swindon-built Civic quality doesn't seem to be on par with the previous models.
    Lots of complaints about excessive oil consumption - I mean EXCESSIVE (as much as several liters per 7,000 miles in some cases), easily chipped paint, rattles, easily scratchable dashboard and some other things.
    The funny thing is that when the editors contacted Honda of UK demanding an explanation for the most common problems the factory just blamed the dealers???
    The oil consumption problem has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.
    Sounds like the new Honda engines do like to burn oil and not just during the break-in period.
    What could be the reason? An engine design? Hard to break-in internals?
    Or something else?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Regarding: Does your Civic burn oil too?

    Thanks for your concern; however, I think our Honda Civic problems discussion might be a more appropriate place to discuss this subject. Not to mention, this subject has been rehashed here a few times already... mainly sparked on by articles and rumors..., not by actual Civic Si owner (member) experiences posted. Anyway, just my observation.

    So let's try to stick to topics that are more specifically related to Civic Si ownership and shopping experiences. ;-)

    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and congrats on your new Civic Si! Thanks for sharing the details. Happy motoring!


    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    A Focus owner talking about Civic "problems"? Now that's funny. I am just over 6500 miles and to date have used less than 1 quart of oil. So far this Civic has been just as reliable and solid as any other Honda product I've owned.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I guess I can't ask any question without being reminded of what I drive.
    So nice of you.
    And if you feel so unsecure and threatened I suggest you contact the above mentioned mag - one of the best magazines in the industry - and tell them how dare they try to question the Civics build quality.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Your "question" seems to have no basis other than to bash the Civic SI. As far as anyone feeling insecure and threatened you might wanna go check your suspension, brakes, fuel tank, and engine. The most threatening thing I've seen is the NHTSA report on the Focus. And I quote "I can't recall any vehicle having as many open investigations at one time" in regards to the Focus. That's threatening. Just curious as to why you find interest in the Si .. is it time to trade?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    If you research the SI and oil consumption on the many consumer boards you will see that oil consumption does occur during the first few thousand miles. It's not abnormal for what is relatively a high performance engine using a low viscosity oil to consume oil during this period.

    You will also notice that Honda recommends NOT to change the oil before it's recommended intervals which is 10,000 miles for normal conditions in the Civic. Considering that most people change their oil within the first couple thousand miles to get rid of the break-in oil they would not even notice the oil consumption. 10,000 miles is on the high end of recommended intervals especially for a main stream car. With that increased interval there is more opportunity for oil consumption to become apparent. Most people wouldn't notice or care if their car burned 1 qt every oil change if they performed them every 3,000-5,000 miles.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Again, why do you keep bringing up the Focus?

    My question wasn't about the break-in period.
    Any engine - "high" performance or not - WILL consume oil in its first 2,000-3,000 miles. It's completely normal.
    Every car does that.
    It just seems that a lot of people here were experiencing unusually high, even for the break-in period, oil consumption rates.
    I didn't think too much of it untill the CAR mag column caught my attention.
    I just wanna know if people here are experiencing the problem after the 5,000 mile mark.
    The modern cars, even the cheapest ones, don't burn much oil if any between oil changes(no need to add).
    And just about any manufacturer requires 5,000-7,500 oil change intervals nowdays.
    In addition, if some Civics do burn at least 1 qt every oil change, then you've got a PROBLEM.
    Even if the consumption rate stays the same and doesn't increase with time as the car ages(which would be very unusual),the burning oil WILL contaminate the catalitic converter, O2 sensors, spark plugs and create other emission problems faster than you think, especially if you REALLY care about your engine and don't mind spending on certain high-end fully synthetic oils which contain higher amounts of antiwear & extreme pressure additives (zinc, phosphorus etc).
    I'm here not to "bash" the Civic. I've got better things to do with my time.
    I've been considering the Civic before and might buy one in the near future and want to know about the potential problems.
    BTW o'so passionately hated by you POS Focus (and you even never owned one, hmmm...) uses the same very thin 5W20 weighted oil and doesn't burn a "drop" between changes according to many owners I hear from, if you must know.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    my Matrix doesn't use any oil, and now has 7000 miles. I check it frequently, and it did not use a drop since the car was new. This has also been the case for every car I have ever owned new except a Saturn SL2, and that car started using oil from day one and just accelerated its use as time went by.

    But, none of those cars used 5W-20 oil, they all used 5W-30.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    issue and page number with this article you are referring to? Can I read the article over the web? Do you know the web address?

    I have been angonizing over either an 02 Civic Si or O2 GTI. Both are great cars and both seem to have their potential mechanical & quality control problems. I am on the verge of getting a GTI next week but would like to read more about what people on your side of the pond are saying about the Si oil consumption before I make a final leap.

    I agree with you about the oil usage. I put 5w-20 in 97 Del sol with 75k & my 01 Tribute with 26K. Both use less than a quart per 6K miles.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    A few facts:
    1. Many cars do use oil during break-in.
    2. No one here or on Si.com (Civic performance board) has complained of oil consumption after 10,000 or so miles.
    3. No one has complained of any of the other maladies that MIGHT happen if the oil was being consumed due to a malfunctioning engine.
    4. This "problem" only happens in the Civic Si which happens to share it's engine with the RSX. Same initial problems there. Along with the S2000 which also has a even more performance-enhanced version of this engine.
    5. If you really wanted to find out about the Si you would have read back in the forum and found that this has been already discussed at length here and has been found that it is greatly dependent on the break-in behavior of the owner.

    So if you really were that "curious" you would have actually read this thread or some of the others on Edmunds. But you chose to create an inflammatory post.

    As far as owning a Focus. How absurd? Why would anyone who has access to the internet buy a Focus. Talk about not doing research.

    Meca check the Si vs. GTI forum for the latest on the VW/Civic debacle.

    For more SI enthusiasts try google. There are numerous Civic forums where any and all problems would appear. Again go to google and enter "Ford Focus automotive problems" then enter "Honda Civic automotive problem" and you'll wonder why anyone would consider a Focus.
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    "No one here or on Si.com (Civic performance board) has complained of oil consumption after 10,000 or so miles".

    I this true? I don't recall anyone posting that has 10K on their 02 Si yet. I would love to hear from some owners with over 10K miles!
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    I did, not encouraging! However, I have read many posts by happy GTI owners also. Given the probable 50 to 1 ratio of GTI owner to Si owner, it is hard to know which are more problematic.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    that have that many miles. We have 6600 on ours. Burned a quart in the first 4000 miles of a very light break-in. has currently no burned any since. Even with a few stop-light Grand Prix's. As I said this is the same engine as the base RSX. There are many with over 10,000 miles.

    I've read many happy GTI owners too. The common thread seems to be...Great drive but kinda problematic. Verified by checking online and in consumer magazines. And it's not 50 to one. VW doesn't sell that many cars let alone GTI's. In addition most parts on the GTI translate to the Jetta/Golf so you can research the GTI by checkin out the Jetta or Golf. Pretty good initial quality but poor long term.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Anybody else think it's interesting that we don't yet have a link or an issue number to that CAR magazine article?

    It's amazing that you are doing such thorough research on the Civic before making a purchase but you currently have a Focus? Hmm....
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    our Town Hall guidelines. To avoid infringing on anyone's copyright protections, we ask that you please just provide a link to articles from other websites. For the sake of continuity, another post that was in direct response to this post was also deleted.

    Also, as I mentioned above, this discussion was specifically created for Honda Civic Si owners/shoppers to discuss their experiences. This discussion is not about the Civic R, VW GTI, Ford Focus, or overall Honda build quality. We have other discussions where you can discuss these subjects. To start, here's Civic Type R, Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI and Ford Focus ZX3/SVT vs. Honda Civic Si.

    Lastly, it is not appropriate for members to rehash negative issues in our discussions... simply for the purpose of bashing a particular make/model. Needless to say, it drags down the morale of our regular participants (that are NOT experiencing any problems) when negative issues are constantly being rehashed (especially by non-owners) in our main vehicle discussions. As mentioned in our membership agreement: "We want to maintain an inviting atmosphere for all our members."

    This is not to say that problems about Civic Si cannot be discussed at Town Hall. However, this is one of the reasons we have created problem discussions (i.e. Honda Civic problems) which are separate and apart from out main discussions; problems can get the attention they need in these areas without disrupting our main discussions. Hope you understand. Btw, if anyone here would like me to start up a Civic Si problems discussion, please let me know.

    Please note: any further off topic, or disruptive messages, will be subject to automatic deletion. Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions or comments. And now, back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si / Sir. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

    To Vapd- I send you an email and it bounced back. Please let me know what your correct email is. Also, be aware that you must have a valid email address in your user profile in order to maintain your membership at Town Hall. Thanks!

    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Si has similar engine as RSX but they are not the same. Si has balance shafts and aluminum intake where the RSX has no balance shafts and has a plastic variable lenth intake. Also the Si has other non engine differences such as electric power steering and different gear ratios. Not quite apples to apples comparison RSX vs. Si. Especially reliability or quality.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    revka: Thank you for keeping the demeanor in here civil and getting us all back on track.
This discussion has been closed.