self oil change

isellhondas · May 2001

I'm not too sure what you are talking about...?

Ford has used spin on oil filters since 1957. They used cannisters before that.

I suppose some imports may use cannisters today but I sure haven't seen one.

And yes, I would LOVE to see a 19 year old tackle an oil filter on an old hemi Dodge! No clearance in which to work, nasty, filthy work and unless everything is lined up perfectly (unlikely) oil leaks all over when the car is started.

98monte_ls · May 2001

I just tried to do an oil change on my mom's 2001 Alero 2.2. I drove up onto the ramps, but could not loosen the drain plug. tried every wrench. borrowed neighbor's tools too. Nothing worked.

it didn't budge. The last oil change was done by the Dealer. I think they overtightened the nut. I think the oil pan is aluminum; it looks like aluminum. I know you're not supposed to over tighten nuts on aluminum parts!!! I told her to take it back to the dealer. They changed the oil. But I want to do it next time.

Anybody else have trouble with tight drain plugs?

210delray · May 2001

The professional mechanics can get them too tight because the cars are on a lift and they can put their full body weight onto the wrench (not that they should).

Many years ago, when I tried to loosen the bolt on my VW Rabbit, I had to use my foot against the wrench to take advantage of the stronger leg muscles. It worked.

adc100 · May 2001

into it, its tough. Up on a ramp, I'm surprised you couldn get it. Don't laugh but maybe you turned it the wrong way. Use a socket and make sure you are turning the right way and then use a "breaker" bar- (longer handle) for more leverage. If all else fails there is something called "knocker" or "sluggging" wrenches. They are made to hammer the handle with a large ball peen hammer or small sledge. Of course us "knuckle draggers" use a regular combination wrench or breaker bar with a hammer (safety problem here). Impact with a hammer is the way to go. Good luck next time- don't feel bad. I had to do the same thing once on a subaru. I had them not make the plug as tight as they normally do and they put it in writing in case the plug came off. I then tightened it myself.

adc100 · May 2001

I always use a torque wrench on drain plugs. 18 ft. lbs. is a good number.

newcar31 · May 2001

is a very, very long time in the auto world. Do you think older cars are unique because they may be a pain to change the oil filter on certain models? Well, you are wrong, because there are many, many new cars that are equally a pain and some of them are worse. No clearance, nasty filthy work is a part of many new cars. By the way, I would bet that when I was 19, I had changed the oil on about 1000 more cars than you have in your entire life. A persons age has nothing to do with it; if you changed oil for a living since you were 16 and did it all the way through college like I did, you wouldn't be saying these things.

newcar31 · May 2001

18 lbs is a good number for what? Not all cars require 18 lbs, cars have all kinds of torque requirements for the drain plugs. For instance, Hondas require 33 lbs and they have very soft metal in the oil pans.

adc100 · May 2001

I can't argue that that torque is always the recommended one. But lets face it how many people use one to tighten a drain plug. I'm sure the Jiffy Lubes of the world don't. I can say for certain that this torque will not strip a drain plug and the drain plug will never fall off (or leak). How much better than that can you get?

isellhondas · May 2001

I don't think I said anywhere that some of the newer cars were any easier to change a filter on than some old ones.

I think what I did say was some old cars, especially the model I mentioned were a nightmare.

Sounds like you're the expert.

Still, I have to wonder if you ever changed an oil filter on an early fifties Chrysler product with a hemi engine...?

Bear in mind...these were old, very old, back when I had to do them. Few and far between.

I don't doubt that some of the newer stuff can be difficult as well.

I just can't imagine anything being any harder than one of those early mopars.

But, I could be wrong.

armtdm · May 2001

I remember my parents Buick and the oil was changed every 1000 miles and it had no filter, a 56 Buick??? When did filters become standard?

alex18t · May 2001

will have those little gaskets for the drain plug?

adc100 · May 2001

They have generic ones. If you have a [non-permissible content removed] car or some of the "Jeep" products you need to go to the dealer for the crushable ones. They tell you to replace 'em every time. I replace them every few times. Just inspect the surface of the gasket to make sure it's O.K. GM vehicles don't require new plug gaskets. (At least the ones I've seem)

haspelbein · May 2001

Sometimes the crushable gaskets come with the filter. (e.g. Purolator for German canister type filters) Make sure to look in the filter box before you buy an extra gasket.

isellhondas · May 2001

As I recall, most of those old cars did have oil filters. I'm kinda surprised that a Buick, being a high line car didn't.

I know they were an option on Chevys back then.

bgkanne · May 2001

I've had Hondas and other Japanese and American cars. To solve the hassle of the drain plug gaskets and the drain plugs themselves, just get a Fumoto Engineering oil drain valve. They work great and save a lot of hassles. I've used them for at least 15 years; never had a problem with them. Check their website, but be sure to get the thread diameter and pitch on your car's drain plug; sometimes their application information is incorrect, though I found exhanges to be no hassle.

armtdm · May 2001

I have the valves on two cars, I agree, time saver and work great. however, they do seem to leave an extra two ounces or so of oil in the pan due to the shape/flow pattern

newcar31 · May 2001

I didn't mean to sound like a jerk, but being a younger guy, I took offense to some of your comments. Here are some newer cars that I find a real pain to change the oil filters on:

1. Infiniti Q45 (really, really bad)
2. Toyota MR2 Turbo or Supercharged
3. FWD previous generation Buick Regal 3.8L
4. All Nissan Pathfinders
5. Lexus RX300/Toyota Highlander
6. First Generation Nissan Maximas
7. Ford Ranger 4x4 3.0L
8. Previous Generation Toyota 4runner
9. Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire 2.2L w/auto
10. Older Acura Legends with canister filter (leak prone)
I am sure I forgot a couple too. By the way, I have never changed oil on a fifties Hemi, theres not too many around, and if they were, I doubt they would bring them to a lube shop. I'll take your word for it.

newcar31 · May 2001

If you have a car with a difficult oil filter, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a little dot on the filter with a permanent marker before you have someone else change the oil to make sure that they acually change the oil filter instead of wiping it off to make it look new. You never know when someone is feeling lazy. I have even seen dealerships guilty of this. I have seen people come in with a dealership reminder sticker and they mentioned that they had it done at the dealership last time, yet it still had our brand of oil filter on it.

andre1969 · May 2001

I'm not sure when exactly oil filters became standard on most cars, but I have a friend who used to own a 1955 DeSoto Coronado, and it had something called an oil bath. I think somehow it pumped the oil up and ran it through the air cleaner element or something weird like that.

In '58, DeSoto did away with the Hemi, and went to the familiar Chrysler big-block, in 350 and 361 configurations, which I believe had a normal spin-on type filter.

Didn't Chevy use those obnoxious drop-in filters until 1967 or so?

I have seen some old car ads bragging about a standard oil filter back in the late 30's/early 40's, so I'd guess they were still a novelty back then.

-Andre

john319 · May 2001

The RX300 has basically the same engine as an ES300 which I own and change the oil myself and found the filter extremely easy to remove. Now the 87 300ZX I used to own, that was a pain in th [non-permissible content removed].

isellhondas · May 2001

No offense taken. It's been a lot of years since I worked a lube rack.

Last year in Reno, I toured the Harrah's old car museum. They had a 1954 Dodge with the hemi engine. Since the hood was up, I looked down and spotted that miserable little can stuck next to the frame on the right side of the engine.

I told my buddies what a B**** that was to change.

isellhondas · May 2001

The term "oil bath" refers to the air cleaner and has nothing to do with filtering the oil.

These were used up until the late fifties, early sixties.

The gas station where I worked as a kid had a lot of older customers with cars to match.

These oil bath air filters sat on top of the carburator they came apart to clean. They usually had wire mesh inside and held about a pint or so of oil.

And they weren't difficult to clean but talk about a filthy mess! I once dropped one under the hood of this fussy guy's pristine '56 Ford.

When it hit the engine, it came apart and spilled FILTHY oil EVERYWHERE!!

Of course the customer, a hot headed Italian guy was standing right there.....not a good thing!

dpwestlake · May 2001

R model Macks used an oil bath air cleaner up to the mid '70s. It held about a gallon of oil and hung on the right side of the cab in front of the passenger door.

Nasty things to clean.

newcar31 · May 2001

True the engine in your Camry, uh...ES300 is similiar to the RX300 but notice how the ES300/Camry didn't make my list. That is because the RX300 is much more difficult to change the filter on than the Camry V6/ES300 even though the RX300 is loosely based on the Camry. The space you have to work with is much tighter, and if you change it when the engine is warm like you are supposed to, it is very easy to get burned (much easier to get burned than the ES300). I knew I forgot a couple cars, and you are right though, those old 300Zs (84'-89'?) are not fun at all (passenger side, underneath the exhaust manifold, similiar to a pathfinder, but worse).

ballfire8888 · May 2001

Would an oil change on the new 2001 Pathfinder with the 3.5 L 240 HP engine be as difficult as the older Pathys?

Also, any experience with the 1999 Chevy Tracker or Suzuki Vitara?

TIA

kinley · May 2001

It soaked up a quart of oil and fit under the valve cover so as to quiet the tappet noise on the pre war Chevy 6's. The oil filter was a cannister with a cartridge and the air cleaner was the oil bath type.

bmaige · May 2001

I have always said once engineers finish designing a car and a prototype is built that each should be required on their day off to find the necessary tools, change certain things on the prototype, and, after all have been changed, allowed to go home. My quick list includes things such as:

1. Oil and filter
2. Air filter
3. Belt(s)
4. Spark plugs
5. Distributor cap and spark plug wires
6. Starter
7. Alternator and voltage regulator
8. Headlight and tail light bulbs
9. Instrument lighting bulbs
10. Water pump
11. Battery

Anyone have any other ideas? Bet after a few years of this engineers would be much more thoughtful about where they put things, how they hang them, and how many different sized bolts and nuts they use--as well as changing the habit of combining metric and standard sizes on one vehicle.

jlflemmons · May 2001

"Like how to get the filter out of a Ciera with a 3800 engine. Took one good mess of turning the oil filter over before I figured it out. Before starting, turn the wheels to the right all the way. Then, when you look in the right side wheel well, you can see this little plastic vent-like thing. Remove two small screws and you are looking at the oil filter. Don't even have to get under the car, just unscrew and remove through the wheel well."

This may work for the Buicks, also. I do know changing the water pump on the '85 models was an absolute bear. Had to lift the engine. On the '87 the design was changed and it only took less than an hour.

newcar31 · May 2001

I don't know, I haven't done one of those. If the engine is based off of the old 3.3L, I would imagine that they would be the same unless Nissan was sick of hearing people and mechanics complain about them. The Chevy and Suzuki are fine. bmaige--I know exactly how you feel. I sometimes wonder what the engineers were smoking when they designed some of these cars (was there a crack epidemic at Nissan and other companies in the 80's?) It boggles my mind when I see these ridiculous designs that could have been made easier without much hassle to the engineers. I thought GM might have been on the right track because many of their cars are very easy, until I saw the new Cavalier/Sunfire 2.2L w/auto. Unless your forearm is very skinny, you WILL NOT be able to take the oil filter off without skinning your arm badly. I feel sorry for the people at GM dealers who have to do those every day. I wish I could sentence that engineer to change 100 of those filters (he/she would happily take the death sentence instead). jflemmons--the FWD regal 3.8L is different than the Ciera. On the regal, you can't even SEE the filter, you have to FEEL it.

isellhondas · May 2001

They should make those engineers change a dozen of those filters before finalizing the design.

And, tell me..I was once in a Quickie Lube and watched them change the oil on a MR-2. One guy stood under the car with a fire extingusher!

Does the oil run right onto the hot manifold or something?

Looks like a GREAT job for a DIYer!

newcar31 · May 2001

The oil filter on those MR2s is surrounded by hot exhaust and yes there is a fire hazzard. Although rare because of oil's high flash point, I have seen a fire before on a honda because the oil drains directly onto the flex pipe. Go to a quicky lube when the are changing the oil on a 4 cyl honda accord and watch when they take the filter off, smoke comes barreling from under the hood and most customers have a heart attack when they see it for the first time. "you guys are going to start my car on fire!!!"

dhughes3 · May 2001

Yes, many cars in the '50s had oil filters standard. I know for certain they were standard on MoPars at least as far back as 1950, and I think probably before that. GM, which always produced cars with a strange mixture of technological advances and prehistoric leftovers, didn't provide oil filters as standard on any Chevy 6's up until 1961, at least. I don't know about the V-8's or other GM car lines, but a company that still used splash lubrication (Chevy 6) until 1953 probably didn't spend the money to incorporate anything as advanced as an oil filter until they absolutely had to, so your memory about the Buick is not faulty.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2001

How about VW. They didn't have filters at all on the bug, right?

armtdm · May 2001

My two Beetles 65 and 69 had an oil screen, no spin on filter. Screen was sort of useless. Dirt particle would have had to be large enough to choke a horse to be caught in the screen

newcar31 · May 2001

Thats what I thought too when I first did an old VW bus. The screen seemed very useless and nothing was ever caught in it anyways so it didn't really filter anything. On the subject of MR2s, now that I think of it, those things are downright dangerous and potentially deadly to change oil on. The reason why that fella had a fire extinguisher is because the oil drains on a part of the exhaust that is very hot and sometimes so hot that it glows. Turbocharged cars' exhaust temperatures are much hotter than normal and when we did those we took the extra precaution of wearing a fire-proof burn sleeve and glove. The space you had to work with was very tight and if it did start on fire you couldn't remove your hand quick enough. If you didn't wear a burn sleeve, you'd better like skin grafts, not to mention the fact that it wasn't too far away from the fuel lines. Can you say Ka-Boom? It would probably be best to do those when they are cold, but you can't when it needs to be done in a "Jiffy".

adc100 · May 2001

was, I believe 1500 miles. How about the lack of heat in the winter- ah- the good old days. Great car.

namfflow · May 2001

Newcar31 reminded me of a topic I always was perplexed about. Most knowledgeable people recomend doing oil changes when the engine is hot. Part of the reason is that the oil is running through the engine and is trapping a bunch of the crud so it can drain out.

Logic to me would indicate that doing an oil change on a cold engine is better. Lets say you do it in your own driveway. You park the vehicle there in the evening. It sits and the oil drains down into the pan along with the crud. When you drain wouldn't more crud be removed as it has drained into the pan instead or being recirculated throughout the engine?

Whats everyone's thought on this. Cold vs. Hot Oil Changes.

newcar31 · May 2001

I think the logic behind changing the oil when it is hot is that the oil is like water when it is hot and therefore drains much faster. On the other hand, if you go out into your garage and change the oil when it is cold and has had all night to drain back into the pan, it would seem that you would get all of the oil out also. If you live in a cold climate however, changing the oil when it is cold could take a long, long, time because sometimes the oil is the consistancy of molasses when it is cold (unless you use synthetic).

brorjace · May 2001

You change the motor oil and filter when it is hot because that's when all the contaminants are well-mixed throughout the oil ... and when you drain the crankcase they leave as well instead of remaining behind somewhere after having settled out of the oil overnight.

--- Bror Jace

newcar31 · May 2001

That makes sense---kind of. I have always wondered about this also. When the oil is hot, that means that the engine has recently been running and therefore there is some oil still sitting in the upper half of the engine that will not get drained unless you leave the plug out overnight. This is illustrated by the fact that if you check the oil when it is cold, it will always read a little bit higher on the dipstick than if you check it when it is hot---because when it is cold almost ALL of the oil has found its way back to the oil pan.

adc100 · May 2001

the pan better (with contaminents suspended and not staying on the sides/bottom of pan-like brorjace said). Trying to make it simple.

newcar31 · May 2001

unless your drain plug is magnetic, in which case most of the stuff sticks to it after it settles.

isellhondas · May 2001

When I had my VW, I bought John Muir's book.." How to keep your VW alive" Great book and I followed his advise.

Every 3000 miles I would lie on my back, pull down the oil screen (which was never dirty) change my oil, and adjust my valves which had to be DEAD COLD according to John.

Funny, I don't think the valves ever needed to be adjusted.

That chicken wire oil screen was pretty worthless.

bburton1 · May 2001

Bought my first accord-an 80-being a tightwad-did my own maintance. Couldn't believe the cost of oil filters-bought sears filters and Castrol by the case on sale. Got my genuine Honda Maintenance Manual-said "Replace crush washer every oil change." Bought 10 or so crush washers. Changed oil first time-crush washer still looked OK-used it again. Did it over and over for the next 200K on that accord-150K on the next and for 112K on my current accord. All three are still on the road-first one leaks a little oil-but all had the original crush washer for a total of over 460K.

Sad conclusion-can only find 8 crush washers in my tool box today-lost 2 after 20+ years.

Replace those crush washers HA HA HA

newcar31 · May 2001

I just changed the oil on my friend's Integra TODAY and didn't replace the crush gasket because he didn't have one. I put the plug back in, filled it up with oil, and watched a slow but steady drip,.... drip,.... drip, coming right from the drain plug. The drain plug threads were in perfect condition as was the oil pan threads, and it was torqued to 33 ft-lbs per honda's recommendations (I usually don't torque the drain plug, but did this time since I wasn't replacing the gasket). Needless to say, I had to go to honda in my car, get a new crush gasket, hook the vaccum cleaner up to the oil fill hole (to save the 3.75 quarts of mobil 1) remove the drain plug, put on a new gasket, reinstall the drain plug, torque to 33 lbs, and guess what? No leak. Honda recommends replacing those for a reason (to prevent leaks and overtightening) and I found out why today. The #1 complaint at honda service departments are stripped oil pans. They strip very easily if you don't replace the gasket. Most knuckleheads would have just tighted up the plug a little more to make it stop leaking. When you replace the aluminum gasket, #1 it molds itself to the oil pan after it is "crushed" and #2, you greatly reduce the risk of overtightening it because you only tighten it until it is fully crushed. It only crushes one time and that's it. I had an integra for 130,000 miles and did every oil change myself and replaced the gasket every single time. After the initial loosening of my plug, you could spin the plug out with your fingers. Almost EVERY other honda (I have done TONS of hondas) that I have done with that many miles or less, had a tough time getting the plug out (had to use the wrench until the plug was half way out) and a new plug wouldn't help. I guess you were REALLY lucky.

armtdm · May 2001

Which is why I replaced my drain plugs with Fumoto Valves, a flip of the spring loaded lever and the oil comes out, no messy plugs, no stripped threads, no gaskets, no mess and they do work, they do not open by themselves and they last forever.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2001

Do they decrease your ground clearance?

isellhondas · May 2001

I guess I don't understand but that's O.K....

Honda reccomends using a new crush washer with every oil change.

So, you went out and bought those crush washers which cost something like thirty cents...right?

But you won't use them?

I must be missing something here...?

armtdm · May 2001

Ground clearance, depends on the oil pan and plug location. They suggest that if you have a low riding suspenson and a plug hole that is vertical not to use one. Extends about 1/2 inch more then OEM plug. Really do work great, easy to use no plugs falling into pan or oil all over hands etc.

www.fumotousa.com

newcar31 · May 2001

I've seen those before on cars. I guess I don't know why I never used one on my integra, seems like a good idea, especially on Hondas and Acuras. Oh well, my mazda oil pan isn't as picky as a Honda/Acura with regards to the crush gaskets. Oh yeah, I think those Honda crush gaskets are less than 30 cents if you buy a bag of them. It doesn't make sense to not replace them. They are neither hard or expensive to replace and if Honda says so, I do. They must know something about the cars that they make.

self oil change

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