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Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...
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Revka
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I tested the GTI. It is a great car and now you get much better performance for a lower price too. If these changes had been made sooner I might have gotten one. Compared to the many japanese sport coupes I tested I thought this car had much more character even if it is not as hard edged. Have they started offering in dash CD changers/players yet?
If you make any aftermarket alterations though I have heard from friends who own VR6's you void the warranty on the car.
P.S. The name is not terribly spicy either. I'm a major foodie and cayenne for a car just seems to lack punch.
Congrats on the GTI mbeards2. You did get the 5-speed manual right? (Note there is a 5-speed automatic tiptronic also, very nice transmission, complements the engine pretty well).
7,000 more miles until I Upsolute my 02 TDI!!!
The best choice for you depends on your style - the SVT is a road course car. It makes up for it's average acceleration and power by having top-notch handling. The Car and Driver review shows this - it was the fastest car around the track.
- the GTI is a car for stoplight driving and for fitting in with the [how do you say trendy without invoking negative connotations?] crowd. It's possibly the best looking and the interior blows everything else out of the water.
A few months after the release of the SVT, the aftermarket will have plenty of go-fast options. I suspect that if you increase the power of the SVT to GTI levels and increase the handling of the GTI to SVT levels, you'll have two awesome cars that are within $1000 or $2000 of each other, both of which will embarrass plenty of Mustang and Camaro owners.
I read a review somewhere, or maybe it was a post on here, that these new hatches and sport coupes out accelerate the standard 60's muscle cars despite the hp difference. Now this excludes those barely street legal Hemi's but they didn't make that many of those anyway. It makes me wonder what all the fuss from the gottta-have-a-big-engine people is all about.
A Focus Cosworth would be limited in production mainly because it would be hard to find too many people willing to shell out $30K+ for a Focus. If I won the lottery I would be first in line though!
The Civic Si is has almost a cult following here. Ford did a bang up job beating the Si dynamically with the new Focus SVT. The si used to be the budget hot-rod all were measured against and ford NEEDED to best that to be taken seriously. They might be taking themselves too seriously though. If it is true that Honda wants to bring 20,000 or so units on the si to the US then the 7500 units of the SVT seems ridiculous. The performance of these two models is great, but neither is a hardcore special model. The Si is obviously not that special of a model otherwise they would make it more exclusive like the Integra Type-R. Honda seems to realize this and Ford doesn't. With such a small production number ford seems to be saying that the SVT is the hottest stuff they got. IMO they needed to play it cool and casually best honda with a marketable model rather than trumpet it with an exclusive model. They are making a big deal of beating a standard car with a special edition and they are leaving themselves little room to make the focus even better. I think they should have waited to badge a special model like the Focus RS as the Focus SVT, but sell that as just an image car to put the focus ahead of the pack. Then they could sell models with the performance of the current SVT (which should be badged something else) to more people to make money. It would be like the focus beating them on the high end and the low end at the same time. So you see how I think Ford was playing safe not making very many SVT's, but unfortunately you usually have to be bold and daring to make it in the performance market.
Good to find someone else thinking like I do.
-SHOV6
The GTI may be the best on content and quality of materials used, but on a hot hatch that is less important than other things. The GTI is still to heavy and soft. Its acceleration is rewarding but the handling much less so. The GTI is more like a high speed touring car of hatches and the Focus SVT is more of the nimble sports car of hatches. At least for whats on sale right now at that price range. You might be able to cheaply improve the VW's handling, but that will void your warranty. VW does not let owners do any sort of aftermarket add-ons.
Having said that, I did hear that replacing the exhaust cat-back on VW might void the ENGINE warranty. Does anyone know if this is true? If so it's a travesty.
-SHOV6
-SHOV6
-SHOV6
Unless the Honda dealers are willing to go much closer to invoice, they may have a not-so-nice surprise in the Si.
The SVT sounds like a good deal to ME. However, I fear that both these cars will be hard to find at a discount... Expect some sort of premium for each, at least at first.
-SHOV6
Sho, I also admire the SVT Focus but am not too surprised by it beating the "vaunted" Si (although I will have to disagree with that adjective). Ford did a good job with that car, and I hope they make Honda suffer at least a little for neglecting the performance enthusiast. Competition is great, isn't it?
My folks still have an '86 Si as a beater (purchased new in Nov. '85, for $400 over sticker in this NYC suburb, good to see some things never change!!), and it was one heckuva fun car for its' time. It would still be fun if it had the proper tires on it, and if I weren't so afraid of getting creamed by an SUV while driving it.
There were a bunch of hot Si's along the way from then to now, not least of which was the high-revving car based upon the last model (an old student of mine owns one). Fun, but in the experience of HIS car at least, somewhat fragile.
I'd say that the Civic Si has a long history of being a viable performance car, at least in the "hot hatch" category. For the new Focus (a relative newcomer, and from Ford, no less) to do so well in comparison is an achievement, in my eyes. Hey, look at it this way, it's a compliment to the Si... I wouldn't be impressed if the Si were a dud.
-SHOV6
Now for something ELSE that was approved... The Ford GT-40. Read that last night, but forgot where... Now THAT will have a high desirability factor! Not that I can afford one, but Ford needs a "halo car" here in the US.
-SHOV6
Title 15, chapter 50 of the United States code (commonly known as the Magnusun-Moss warranty act), among other things, prohibits a manufacturer from voiding a warranty because you use aftermarket parts, except in certain situations, like if the part you were replacing would normally be given to you free from the manufacturer outside of the warranty period. If you were to install an aftermarket exhaust, Volkswagen would be under no obligation to warrant that exhaust, but they cannot void the warranty on the engine or any other part of the car. Now, if that exhaust were to fail in such a way as to damage the engine (or you installed it in a way that damaged the engine), then Volkswagen legally can deny your warranty claim because the aftermarket part caused the damage. But if the engine fails for some other reason, they can't point to the aftermarket exhaust and say "no."
To put it simply, the factory warranty is valid on all factory parts for the life of the warranty unless it can be proven that an aftermarket part caused the factory part to fail. Period. If they try to deny a legitimate claim, simply tell the service manager that for his protection under Federal Law, the head technician needs to write a report stating the reason for the denial and detail exactly how the aftermarket part caused the factory part(s) to fail. Both the service manager and the lead tech need to sign it.
Now, dealers of all brands of cars try to feed you that sort of line to varying degrees. I, for example, have quite a few aftermarket parts on my Focus. My local dealership has performed a lot of warranty work on my car and the only mention of my aftermarket parts was one of the techs telling me how cool my suspension setup was and asking if I was going to get a turbo for it. I asked if they could install a limited slip for me and they told me to do it somewhere else because they charge too much for labor. No "it'll void your transmission warranty" talk. I know that there are a lot of Volkswagen dealerships that wont hassle you about chipping your GTI or doing other mods as long as you are upfront and dont try to hide things. On the other hand, I know a girl who had to try 5 different Honda dealerships before she found one that would even look at her Civic because it had an aftermarket alarm. Find a good dealer and what I wrote above wont even come into play.
At Ford dealers at least, the ones that sell SVTs (not all Ford dealerships can sell you an SVT) are probably the most accepting of mods, but you still should ask before buying the car. Same goes for other makes as well - tell them what you might do and ask how they would treat it. Buy from the friendly one.
-SHOV6
#88 good post, thanks. Now how do you convince the dealers of this? Legal action?
Thanks for your comments!
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
The car got an awesome writeup in the new Car and Driver. Worth a read for anyone looking at the "hot hatch" category, even if it doesn't have a hatch after all!
-SHOV6
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards