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Toyota 4WD systems explained

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Comments

  • other1other1 Member Posts: 7
    If you drive 4WD like it's 2WD you should be ok.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "The extra traction that 4WD gives you...."

    Should be correct as follows...

    The extra traction that FWD or F/AWD gives you....

    RWD or rear torque biased AWD/4WD will definitely be less hazardous on a slippery roadbed for most drivers, inexperienced drivers, than would be FWD or F/AWD.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    I've tried several times to make my point, but it is apparent that many are missing it, so I'll give up now.
  • landarchtlandarcht Member Posts: 9
    I was shifting the transfer box from N to H the other day while in putting the transmission in Neutral and felt a small grinding sensation, is that ok? I thought that's the way one supposed to shift? The vehicle was not even in motion....
  • greenmaxgreenmax Member Posts: 47
    Hello, I've been reading this forum for a while as I am about to purchase a clean low mileage 01 SR5 4x4. I've noticed that on 01 and 02 Sequoias next to the 4WD button there's VSC Off button, but on 03 and up models there is a button that looks like it's for locking the center differential. Are there any differences in the 4WD hardware in those models? Thanks for any help!
  • 2toyotas2toyotas Member Posts: 104
    The 03 has a center diff lock button that can be locked in 4hi and 4low by pressing that button. on the 01 and 02's the only way to lock the center diff is to put it in 4low, and put the transmission in L, which is first gear.
  • greenmaxgreenmax Member Posts: 47
    2toyotas,

    Thank you for the explanation. I guess that makes the 01-02 a bit less capable than the 03+.
  • blackdog4blackdog4 Member Posts: 67
    I have a 2002 Sequoia and live in the Boston area. We make 3 or 4 trips to Northern Vermont skiing each winter and get a fair amount of snow here in Boston. My driveway is a moderate upgrade. I have never had to use 4WD LOW range. I just push the 4WD button when needed.

    In the summer our Sequoia is on Martha's Vinyard for five months and we drive on the beaches frequently after dropping the air pressure in the tires to 15psi. Again I have never used the low range and have never been stuck. In fact I usually tow out one or two stranded vehicles each season.

    Unless you plan on hard core off roading, I doubt that you will use the low range much if at all. The older system has been just fine for me.
  • davoncdavonc Member Posts: 1
    When I push the center diff button, the light comes on in the gauge cluster, but when I push it again to unlock it, it doesn't beep to let me know its unlocking anymore. Recently the beep that it used to do when unlocking came on out of the blue while driving. Does anybody have any idea whats causing this and if my diff lock is even working now?
  • reb66reb66 Member Posts: 2
    2001 4Runner. Last night I hit the 4WD button by mistake and I haven't been able to get out of it. The light is flashing, the one with the four green wheels and the orange center. I took it in to the dealer this morning. They had her for 4 hours and said they didn't know why it happened and that they couldn't get the 4X4 to disengage. They gave her back to me in 4 wheel drive with the light still flashing. Now they can't see me again until Tuesday (It's Thursday right now). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
  • gpoltgpolt Member Posts: 113
    Considering purchase of a 2009 RAV4. Rented a 4WD '09 4 cylinder from Hertz and it drove fine but can't justify the added expense and mpg hit when in Maryland it snows no more than 2days per year. Question: in the dry, do the cars drive any different? Any stiffer? Any more ground clearance? Thanks. Also, is there any down side to purchasing the 2WD V6? Seems like it would be quiet, fast and no penalty as far as mpg. Thanks again.
  • shelby55shelby55 Member Posts: 1
    Whatever happened with your problem? I'm having a similar problem, although I didn't hit my 4wd button by accident... I wanted it to engage... it didn't... and it won't stop trying either.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    No difference in ground clearance, no stiffer, no significant difference in the way they drive on dry pavement. You will see a difference in the way they handle if you get into gravel or grass on the side of the road or when getting moving when you have gravel under the tires to begin with. Frankly though, if you can get a FWD V6 go ahead, you'll not really find a significant benefit unless you like to have the AWD on occasions (snow days or pulling a small boat trailer out of the water, etc.).

    Good luck to you.

    Ken
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The Toyota AWD/4WD system that uses TC, Traction Control, braking to apportion engine torque upon (only upon) wheelspin/slip isn't worth the gunpowder to blow it to hell.

    At least the newer ones have the ability to disable the TC system so you will have some chance of getting unstuck.

    Only slightly less dangerous to drive on an adverse roadbed, slippery surface, than FWD alone.

    I hate recommending Ford to anyone but if you feel there will be times you will need a truly functional AWD/4WD then a Ford Escape or Mercury Mariner with the 4 cylinder and stick shift would be your best and safest purchase.
  • nhdriver2nhdriver2 Member Posts: 3
    I purchased a 2008 4Runner and after not understanding my manual on the operations ended up here. I have owned four other 4WD vehicles and by far this one is the most complicated. The manual does little to help expain the need to lock/unlock the center differential. Can someone dumb it down for me? Basically, if I am driving in snow what do I need to do besides turn from 2WD to 4WD, if anything? Is it necessary to use any other buttons? Thanks!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If you have a full time AWD mode, as I believe you do, just use that.

    Forget the 4WD/4X4 hi/lo range modes unless you are off-road.
  • nhdriver2nhdriver2 Member Posts: 3
    It is listed as multi mode 4WD, not AWD. I do have the Vehicle Stability Control w. Traction Control and don't think that's going to help much in times of heavy snow or getting over the snow bank at the end of the driveway.
  • harboharbo Member Posts: 136
    I understand the Seq Diesel is on the test road's in the US. Who has any info?
    Thx ,,,,, My 02 Lmt has 115K and is just getting broken in. Tough and dependable.
    For certain the traction control system is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] if you know how to drive.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If the multi-mode system has anything other than a fully open center diff'l you will be fine. An open center diff'l would RQUIRE TC to apportion engine torque in slippery, low traction, conditions, NOT GOOD..!!
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    It sounds as though you have the V6 4Runner -- the V8 4Runner does not have a 2WD mode. For driving on the roads in snow, simply turn it to 4WD. You don't need to do anything else.

    When I go offroad, I lock the center differential. This also disables the spin control. The center diff is locked using a button on the lower left of the dash. I usually stop and put the truck in neutral when engaging or disengaging the center diff lock.

    For more severe offroad, engage low range. To do this, come to a stop, truck in neutral, turn to 4WD-low. If you are going to engage low range, you also want to lock the center differential.

    In summary, my recommendations are:

    Dry road or rain - 2WD
    Snowy road - 4WD high
    Offroad - 4WD high + lock center diff
    Offroad worse conditions - 4WD low + lock center diff
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    If the multi-mode system has anything other than a fully open center diff'l you will be fine.

    The 2008 4Runner has a lockable Torsen limited slip center diff. It is not a fully open center diff.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    How big is the snow bank at the end of the driveway? If you are talking just busting through 12" of relatively soft snow, 4WD high is more than enough.

    If you are talking about climbing a 3' high bank, dragging the undercarriage across the bank, and plowing through 18" of fresh snow on the other side (which I've done), then put it in 4WD low, lock the center diff, and you'd better have snow tires.

    Frankly, the most important thing I found when driving my 2003 4Runner in the snow is that real snow tires (not the all-season tires that come with the truck) make the largest difference, particular in stopping and turning in the snow.
  • klar2klar2 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 02 sequoia with same problem, i engaged 4wd and is now stuck in 4wd and the orange light flashing all the time, do you have any new info ?? thanks
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "disables the spin control.."

    "spin control" is a Bush WH term, VSC, Vehicle Stability Control, is a more proper operative term for the 4runner.

    With the center differential locked the vehicle does not have the viability, is not capable, of the rotation rates of the front wheels vs the rear wheels be independent. Therefore most of the ABS/VSC/TC/EBD functionality is disabled when the center diff'l is locked.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    For clarification

    The 2008 4Runner has a Torsen center diff'l to selectively stiffen/tighten the center diff''l coupling coefficient, R/AWD mode, and separately a spline/dog clutch to completely LOCK the front and rear drivelines together thereby bypassing the Torsen....

    It's this spline/dog clutch that is often difficult to get to engage/lock while underway, above a low speed range. In my experience it is often necessary to drive slowly forward and/or slowly backward alternately in order to get the dog clutch to more readily engage or disengage
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    "spin control" is a Bush WH term, VSC, Vehicle Stability Control, is a more proper operative term for the 4runner.

    Oh please. First, keep the silly politics out of it. The Bush administration is far from the first to use political spin.

    Second, every manufacturer has their own nomenclature for it, as you well know. Picking one manufacturer's nomenclature and deeming it the "proper operative term" is something I cannot properly describe on this board and stay within the rules.

    Honda calls it Vehicle Stability Assist.
    Toyota calls it Vehicle Stability Control.
    Ford calls it Electronic Stability Control.
    GM calls it Stabilitrak.
    MB calls it Electronic Stability Program.

    They all do basically the same thing -- individually apply brakes to try to keep the vehicle going in the direction that you are steering.

    Which everyone understood when I used the vernacular "spin control."

    And they all do the same thing.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "spin control...."

    No other WH administration has been known to "leak" information, highly questionable information, to the news media, knowing it would be published, and then within hours of that publication referring to the publication by the media as a "validation" of the "truthfulness" of the otherwise questionable information. Certainly not to instigate an otherwise totally un-necessary war.

    "spin control..."

    As in "yaw" control....

    They all do the same thing...

    No, either BMW or MB, I don't remember which, uses a type of diff'l in the stearing control to actually "counter-stear" against the driver's input, in the case of over or understearing. Many of the new vehicles with electric power stearing assist actually provide additional resistance to the driver input if that input would exacerbate the situation.

    And finally....

    "Which everyone understood when I used the vernacular "spin control""

    Now that you have more accurately defined your use of the term my guess would be that virtually no one got it.

    Personally I took "spin control" to mean in the case of TC, Traction Control, being used to prevent wheelspin/slip due to too much engine torque being applied for roadbed conditions.

    It never occurred to me, and I suspect to most other readers, that what you really meant was "yaw" control.

    So...

    "spin control.."

    As in preventing wheelspin/slip..

    TC implementations on RWD vehicles apply braking and then often delay engine dethrottling for a few hundred milliseconds to give the driver time to react and "feather" the throttle in order to maintain the tire's traction coefficient right on the "cusp" in order to move forward without wheelspin/slip.

    This dethrottling delay is not possible on FWD and F/AWD vehicles since such a delay, even this brief delay, might well result, has a greater potential for, loss of directional control.

    Hybrid vehicles, since torque can be more "finely" controlled, and with short reactive times, (no ICE crank, mechanical, inertia) often use "engine" dethrottling only, they do not always use braking as a part of TC.
  • hdfatboyhdfatboy Member Posts: 324
    "No other WH administration has been known to "leak" information, highly questionable information, to the news media, knowing it would be published, and then within hours of that publication referring to the publication by the media as a "validation" of the "truthfulness" of the otherwise questionable information. Certainly not to instigate an otherwise totally un-necessary war."

    Moderator....can we please follow-up by moving these types of political commentaries to another forum or deleting them altogether as they lend no value to the discussion about Toyotas 4wd systems. I think we've all had enough of politicians, politics and the media's coverage of it to last a lifetime (or perhaps at least until the next election).

    I view these forums as an escape from the dreary political landscape of the past, present as well as the future and it would be wonderful if you as the moderator could kindly keep this type of dribble outside of the forum.

    Thanks
  • briegelbriegel Member Posts: 139
    I wholeheartedly agree with hdfatboy on this!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I believe the community has just "moderated" this problem away.

    Carry on!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Agreed, agree....
  • shap2shap2 Member Posts: 1
    I am considering buying a 09 Tacoma with the sport package, but a couple of questions are nagging at me. Firstly, will the TRAC control offered in the 09 work in the four wheel drive mode and if so how effective is it at trasfering power to a non-slipping wheel. Secondly, how much power does a limited slip differential transfer to the non-slipping wheel. Everything I've read says there is a limited trasfer of torque, but are we talking 10%, 50% ?

    Thanks, Ken
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Some 4WD systems can be quickly released and that is what often done to enable ABS/TC/EBD/VSC/etc. The Tacoma probably has spline/dog clutch which cannot be quickly or reliably released so all of these functions will typically be disabled when the F/R drivelines are locked.
  • ALIDALID Member Posts: 1
    I am looking to buy a used 4runner, 2003-2004. (That's where I'm budgeted). I have a friend who used to work for GM and has been a dealer for a while. He believes 8V AWD is a better option than 6V 4WD for a car with 100K (km) on it. He can't exactly explain why but pricewise he is sure the AWD ones are a few grands more expensive in the market.
    What's the story?
  • metairie_lametairie_la Member Posts: 8
    hi everyone. i am considering purchasing a L.C. (2002-2003 model) with approximately 105,000 miles. while i know this is not a blog about that, i noticed that everyone here is extremely knowledgable on these automobiles. can you please tell me the good/bad/ugly of what to expect if i purchase? ANY HELP IS GREATLY APRRECATED ! i will drive the car another 5 yrs and put about 15,000 miles per yr. on it.

    Justin
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    No story. The V8's cost more to begin with, and there weren't many around. The V6 also has the AWD option on 4wd models. Find one, drive it, and make up your own mind. I got the six....wish at times I had the eight...but when gas was $4+ gln the V6 was lookin really good. Neither one has drivetrain issues.
  • RAV4217RAV4217 Member Posts: 1
    I have been having a problem that the dealership can't seem to pinpoint a fix for. I have a 2006 RAV4 and except for this issue, I love the car. Last winter, which was my third with the car, I had a severe defrosting and fogging issue...the car would fog up - on ALL windows even back to the tailgate. No matter what I did with the adjusting of controls, it did not help. In fact, in the middle of January we had to drive with the window open in order to keep the windows somewhat clear - not fun!

    In addition to this, there was also a "funky" odor in the cabin...I can best describe it as a "sour" smell...possibly moist.

    I had the car in for service severa times last fall and I was told repeatedly that it was user error. Talk about frustrating...finally I did speak with a technician that took the the time to speak with me in the car as it was running. Of course, the odor or the fogging did not occur, however, after 10 minutes he checked the hoses (not exactly sure which ones) because he didn't think the heat was working correctly and the hoses that he checked were stone cold and they should have been hot to the touch. Due to this, he replaced the thermostat...

    I would love to say that the thermostat fixed the problem, but it didn't. It possibly made it better for awhile (does that even make sense?) but it is not fixed.

    The inside of the car continues to fog up...the odor continues as well...it almost feels like a steam bath at times...I'm leary to take it back to the dealer as I don't think it will get me anywhere.

    I'm hoping that someone on this forum has at least heard of this issue if not experienced it. I'm ready to just give up and trade in the car.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!!
  • kingfans1kingfans1 Member Posts: 137
    Hello everyone. I am looking to purchase a full size SUV. I am debating between 09 Nissan Armada and 09 Toyota Sequoia. My brother have a 08 4Runner 4wd. . I drove his car one day to work. It was about 12 inches fresh snow on the mountain ( lake tahoe area).. 4runner have no problem. I was very impressed with the 4runner. I am very confident 4runner, sequoia, other 4wd well handle great in snow. but i have a question. has anyone driven nissan armada 4x4 in snow? if so please let me know how the car handle.... thanks you
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Most probable cause is a slight engine coolant leak ("sweet" anti-freeze odor.??) from the heater core or teh hoses leading to/from the heater core.

    Second possibility is a plugged up condensate drain in the HVAC plenum.

    Last possibility is simply the Denso design flaw for which you can have the dealer set two C-best options to so you can disable the A/C compressor during the winter months.

    For these latter two the odor is more likely to be: "dirty gym socks".
  • hdfatboyhdfatboy Member Posts: 324
    I think I had the same smell you're referring to last Fall. I think mine was related to the fact that I ran the AC during the summer at High cold which automatically places the climate control into the recirculating mode. Since there was little fresh air flowing through the air exchanging, I think it built up the "moldy" smell. It was easily resolved by going to a local part store and picking up a can of "Clean Air Duct Treatment" for a couple of bucks. The directions instruct you to spray the can into the climate control intake vent on the outside of the vehicle (Passenger side)between the windshield and engine hood.

    I suppose its some type of disinfectant that destroys the bacteria causing the smell. I did 2 applications over a couple of days and the smell was gone in a week or so. Lesson learned is to not run the AC at full cold all summer and try to use some direct external air occasionally.

    BTW the dealer wants to charge something like $60-75 to spray the same stuff into your venting system. What a rip-off.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    BG Frigi-Fresh is the brand I've seen recommended. I've seen it priced online from around $13 to $28 a can.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Microbial growth within the A/C plenum is fairly common but that doesn't alone account for the extreme fogging events.

    see the EED at:

    airsept.com
  • hdfatboyhdfatboy Member Posts: 324
    I only caught the part about the smell. Missed the fogging issue. Clearly some other problem than what I experienced.
  • steelcruisersteelcruiser Member Posts: 402
    LCs don't have V-6s. Never have. Only I6, then to V8 in 1998.
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    The Armada has a fantastic 4wd system. The problem, IMO, is the vehicle is problematic and has a poor maintenance history. For that reason alone, I'd recommend the Sequoia. Regardless of what you buy, if it doesn't have the proper tires for the conditions you are driving in, then it doesn't matter what you are driving.
  • steelcruisersteelcruiser Member Posts: 402
    Re: this post--this applies to US LCs, as the ROW 4Runner is called an LC (90 Series I believe)
  • kingfans1kingfans1 Member Posts: 137
    thank you for your quick response. I think toyota have better resale value and more reliable. by the way, what suv do you drive? thanks
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    4Runner....hoping to move up to a Sequoia later this year.
  • kharriskharris Member Posts: 41
    Can anyone give me information this AWD(or "full time FWD") that Toyota is using in the current Highlander, or at least a reliable source of information. I am familiar with AWD and 4WD in general, and in particular with the real 4WD with a low range as in my Ford), but what exactly does the new HL have and how does it function--viscous couplings, clutchpack or ? Thanks for any information.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The current HL uses a simple open center diff'l so torque distribution will be 50/50 ONLY as long as F/R traction remains roughly equal. If a wheel or wheels should begin to slip/spin the TC system will activate to moderately brake the slipping wheel(s) while simultaneously dethrottling the engine.

    Generally not worth the powder to blow it to.....
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