Toyota 4WD systems explained

wwest · January 2003

Manual says ten miles a month, with no caveat?

Hard to believe, but if y'all say it's so!

Personally I would NEVER follow that advice, or I would find myself a nice low traction 5 mile (10, out and back) "run", say on a (loosely packed) gravel road.

cliffy1 · January 2003

I have a serious question for you. If you don't know about the Tacomas 4WD system and didn't bother to read the first several posts of this topic where I describe the 4WD system and don't have access to an owners manual, why are you answering this question? The Tacoma is a simple part-time 4WD system. It has NEVER had an AWD system of any type. The owners manual does have the advise to engage the 4WD system once a month. The manual has ALWAYS has this.

Before auto hubs became standard, I always advised my customers to lock the hubs once a month. With ADD this became impossible. I stopped advising customers to do anything during the dry months. Unless a person has access to a dirt road, I believe the benefits to lubricating the 4WD parts to be less than the risk of damaging something. In short, I disagree with the manual.

wwest · January 2003

If you look back over my posts, looking for the common thread, I think you will find that you and I are in perfect agreement. At least with the last sentence of post 884.

Does that bother you?

Not me.

cliffy1 · January 2003

We may be in agreement on the issue of the manual dispensing poor advise but I still question why you got involved. I'm very serious here. This guy has a Tacoma and asked a great question about the operation of the 4WD system. You don't seem to know what kind of 4WD system the Tacoma has, yet that didn't stop you from answering him. What you did was to give him bad information which was to go ahead and engage the system on dry pavement.

The thing is... I know you are smarter than that. I know that you are aware of the differences between part time and full time systems. What you did was to assume some things about the Tacoma and if this guy had not posted follow up questions and had followed your advise, he would have damaged his truck. Please be more careful in the future.

shek3 · January 2003

the word is adviCe

stever · January 2003

Picky picky.

How about we try to concentrate more on the 4WD stuff and less on each other. Besides, we're all fluent in chat typos.

Steve, Host

wwest · January 2003

Buy you a drink? Where?

cliffy1 · January 2003

That's pretty gracious of you. If you're ever traveling through Northern VA, I'll take you up on that.

stever · January 2003

Ok, this place is sort of central to everyone. Let's all meet there for the plate lunch on April 31 - I'm buying and Tidester is gonna wash everyone's SUV for free!

Steve, Host

cliffy1 · January 2003

Hmmm... Arkansas in the spring eh? I'm sure I could find a good fishing lake there. Also, since I'm sure my boat will need more warranty work this spring (it always does), I can drop it by the manufacturer in Flippin AR.

tidester · January 2003

Tidester is gonna wash everyone's SUV for free!

Sure - and we'll add free wax 'n buff along with new windshield wiper blades! Thanks a bunch, Steve!! LoL. :-)

tidester, host

cliffy1 · January 2003

Will ya do the boat too? It could use a good buffing.

tidester · January 2003

Sure! No problem - as long as it's hitched to your SUV! We'll toss in Edmunds bumper stickers to the 1^st dozen to show up.

tidester, host

wwest · January 2003

Maybe. Don't get to the Philly area very often, need a hoagie and cheese steak fix, soon.

Are y'all serious about AR in April?

My 01 C4 says Tyronza on the WA plate and I have an AR "Tyronza" plate also. Small town about 30 miles from Memphis.

stever · January 2003

Check the date again Willard ;-)

Maybe I can sell you an Ice Classic ticket?

Steve, Host

pjreporter · January 2003

I write for a daily business newspaper and am seeking Rav 4-EV drivers [that is...the environmental version]. If you drive this vehicle, please email me at lanetef@yahoo.com

voodoovicki · January 2003

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of buying the '03 Tacoma with the off road package. I have it narrowed down to the 4x4, V6, Auto & Ext Cab but going back and forth on whether or not do the Off Road package. Can anyone give me some advise on this?
Thanks

mentor34 · January 2003

We've got a 2003 Sequoia 4X4, and recently tried to engage the 4WD. It takes almost 1 mile of forward travel for the flashing light to go out, if it does. About 1/3 of the time, it does not stop flashing. If you stop the vehicle, back up a few feet, then move forward again, the light stops flashing and everyting is OK. Is this standard ops for this system or is there a problem?? Say what you will about Chevy/GM/Ford products, but the 2500HD/Tahoe/Expeditons that we have owned have engaged 4WD almost instantly.

intmed99 · January 2003

If you're on the move, to make the 4wd/2wd transition faster, just tap lightly on the brakes OR accelerate...that should do the trick.

If you're parked, you can shift into Neutral and back into drive...or change to any other gears and back into drive.

pschreck · January 2003

intmed is correct. Mine can pop in and out of 4WD almost immediately with that trick. Mine will engage or disengage by simply letting off the gas under load and then accelerating.

But most of the time, I just leave the 4WD engaged.

cliffy1 · January 2003

I am just now getting to checking all the topics for the day. I just read your question in the Sequoia topic and advised exactly what intmed and pschreck told you. Its great to see that this place has so many people willing to help others!

vida4 · January 2003

Good evening, I'm new to this chat room, so please be patient with me. I own a 97 4runner 4WD, and noticed while driving in this mode that any sharp turns, or even backing up my wheels feel like they're skipping. I read a message earlier from wwest, that this happens in tight circles. Is this common? Can anyone suggest anything, do I have to change back to 2WD to get better traction while backing up? Mind you, this is on pavement that's slightly covered with slushy snow.

tidester · January 2003

Welcome aboard!

I think that is normal for the 4Runner - willard and others here will be very happy to explain the nitty gritty detail to you!

tidester, host

vida4 · January 2003

Thanks I'm grateful for any shared knowledge.

cliffy1 · January 2003

On a '97, you have a basic and old fashioned part time system. You should NOT engage the 4WD system on dry pavement. The skipping you feel is real. The front and rear drive shafts are turning at the same rate but around a corner, that is impossible unless the back end skips or slides. It is very normal but you need to limit 4WD use to slippery conditions.

whatnow2 · January 2003

I can understand why owners of other than tacomas read this board, but why post messages related to 4runners, sequoias, etc? All these have their own boards. if every model is addressed in every board, who can keep track and hope to contribute something useful? A little posting discipline would help.

stever · February 2003

I think it would help you understand why if you go back to the start of the discussion and review Cliffy's first few posts:

cliffy1 May 16, 2001 5:55pm

Steve, Host

pschreck · February 2003

I'm not sure what you mean. Those are all Toyota vehicles that can be bought with 4WD. Why wouldn't those questions be just as valid as Tacoma questions?

md2002 · February 2003

This thread focuses specifically on the 4WD Systems of Toyota. I have foudn this to be the best place for that info. Otherwise it will get lost in the jumble of other Toyo threads.

tidester · February 2003

...play nice! Stick to the topic.

tidester, host

kass2 · February 2003

How does the RAV 4 do in snow?, substantial snow that is, my 91 Tracker had snow up to the bumper and made it through--just not sure about this all time 4WD system in the RAV4 Thanks!

gkatz1 · February 2003

Alot of people are ignorant and think all 4WD systems are the same. I've heard the new Expedition system is very advanced. Anyone know how the Sequoia matches up?

intmed99 · February 2003

The Expedition system is no more advanced than other VSC-equipped true 4wd systems. In fact, it is probably INFERIOR to Sequoia's system because the Sequoia can lock it's center differential...can Expedition lock the center diff????? If it cannot, then the Sequoia is superior.

wwest · February 2003

We definitely need a way to distinguish between an SUV that is designed/intended/marketed for off-road use vs an SUV that is up to the task of handling wintertime on-road adverse driving conditions.

SUV/A off-road, lockable center diff'l, low range gearing, etc.

SUV/B, Non-off-road, ML320, X5

SUV/C, Rainy day SUV, no real adverse condition capability, RX300, Highlander, etc.

jdbeynon · February 2003

I am seriously considering purchasing a 2003 4Runner and am interested in other owners experiences off-roading in them. In particular I am interested in knowing how the traction control system compares to a locking rear differential. I think if it works well it could be as good as a locker without the hassle. But if it is so good, why have a locking center differential? Anyway I would love to hear your experiences.

intmed99 · February 2003

First off, 4-wheel traction control (known as A-TRAC) is NOT superior to a true locker (ex: ARB). ATRAC is equivalent to a limited-slip differential. So, it is like having a LSD on the front and rear axles. This combination will get you through 95-97% of off-roading stuff. The 3-5% will need a locker, like in really deep, deep, deep mud. Even in deep mud, i can spin my tires on my 4Runner to get out...so, 3-5% is probably too much.

You ALWAYS want a center differential lock! First off, on the 4runner, locking the center diff will turn off stability control/dethrottle function. This is very important in off-roading. In addition, locking the center diff will split power 50/50 front/rear. Basically, this allows the ATRAC system to work individually on the front wheels and rear rear wheels.

wwest · February 2003

that you must have the 4runner gearbox on LOW range to lock the center diff'l?

ABS "pulses" may be too low of an amplitude at very low wheel rotational rates to make atrac fully operational.

jdbeynon · February 2003

The circumstances that I am interested in are as WWEST describes. When you are in the thick of it with 2 wheels with no traction or a wheel off of the ground. Can the A-TRAC system apply enough braking force to keep all 4 wheels turning in all circumstances. This is more of a practical question than theoretical one. What is the A-TRAC like when it is in 4LO? Is it less functional at low wheel speeds? Overall does A-TRAC have much application in serious off roading?

wwest · February 2003

With the center diff'l locked one rear wheel and one front wheel MUST turn! To my knowledge there are few, maybe no, SUVs with a front LSD.

So your disadvantage, if any, comes from not having a mechanical LSD in the rear. My personal belief is that atrac, using diff'l rear braking, will work just as well in this instance as would a rear LSD.

AND....

Atrac will have the definite advantage of using front braking, however moderately, to simulate a front LSD.

intmed99 · February 2003

On the Sequoia, i think you have to be in LOW range to lock center diff.

On the 4Runner, you can lock the center diff in HIGH or LOW ranges. Cool!

ATRAC works well in both LO-and HI-ranges. I have cross many ditches (where i only have 2 wheel traction--one front & one rear) without any problem...not one! ATRAC is great...but not as good as a true locker.

intmed99 · February 2003

cliffy1 · February 2003

Its days like this that I wish my Tundra had the A-Trac system. Seriously, the locked center of my Tundra is working fine but there have been several times within the past two days that I really had my doubts. Also, now that the roads are getting cleared, I am constantly switching between 2 and 4WD. With the A-Trac, I'd just leave it in 4WD and forget about it.

Oh yeah... we just got some details on the 2004 Tundra and A-Trac will be an option.

intmed99 · February 2003

Wow, i have been waiting for ATRAC to be incorporated onto a pickup truck for years now!! Finally! In my opinion, ATRAC is needed MOST on a pickup.

cliffy1 · February 2003

I was hoping we would have it this year. My lease came up back in November and I had to get something. I'm pretty happy with my 03, but I REALLY wanted the A-TRAC.

xman1035 · February 2003

It rained a lot where I live (Southerm California) for the past few days and I had a chance to test my Sequoia 4x4 in the mud. I live next to a 100 acre field that when it rains it gets muddy. I saw that two pickups likely 2WD (Ford 150 and Chevy Silverado) got stuck in the mud/grass a few days ago and had to be towed out by a long tow strap.

I put my Sequoia 4x4 to the test today and the field was still soaked from another storm that came in last night. I cruised through the field with no problems and never once got stuck. This 4x4 system is just as good if not better than my old 1993 Land Cruiser.

junglist1 · March 2003

Am considering purchasing a 4WD RAV4, but didn't realize that the 4WD was on all the time. Is this really worth it? Since there is no indicator how do you know if something goes wrong with the 4WD system? Does the 2WD provide enough traction on snow and ice? How does the 4WD RAV compare to the CRV?
Any insight is much appreciated.

trout14 · March 2003

I am trying to figure out if I should get the 99 or 00 model TLC. Is the improvement of the new 4x4 system worth the extra bucks. Will not in all likelihood ever get to the point where I will seriously challenge any 4wd terrain. Buying it because of the extra room and luxury. Also can someone (maybe Cliffy1, great explanations) explain how the 4wd works on the '99. I saw a detailed writeup on the 2000 at the begining of this post, but not for the '99. I currently drive a '95 trooper and it has been very reliable and a great truck. Live in Illinois, but plan to move to COlorado next year, and will have a little more weather to deal with. Thanks

bigbert · March 2003

The books says change differential fluids every 15k...is this really necessary? any options....

wwest · March 2003

150k might be more appropriate.

Anti-freeze can easily and cheaply be tested.
Automatic transmission fluid, power steering fluid, doesn't need to be changed unless it looks or smells as if its been over-heated. Brake fluid shouldn't need to be "touched" unless the system is opened.

I change engine oil and oil/air filters on the scheduled basis and nothing else. Three LS400s (91, 92, 95) in the "family", one over 100k and two pushing that number.

cliffy1 · March 2003

The 1999 had a limited slip center differential which was lockable. The rear differential was also manually lockable. I prefer the new system but the old one served VERY well all over the world. The reason I like the new system isn't so much the 4WD system but I am a believer in the VSC system. I think that is a quantum leap in safety and worth the extra money.

Toyota 4WD systems explained

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