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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues
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Comments
But if I'm not qualified, then who is?
Maybe it's the guy who has a Japan built Accord and a US Civic. Turns out the Civic has a slight paint imperfection that the Accord doesn't.
The muffler lasts 120,000 miles in the Civic but only 110,000 on the Accord.
So...at the cocktail party he tells everyone that the quality on Japan cars is better...BANG! It's gospel!
I have no real argument with you or anyone else. You can think whatever you choose.
Heck, you might even be right!!
I, on the other hand can see on differences nor can tha majority of the people who buy them.
"But if I'm not qualified, then who is?"
Those self-contradictory statements pretty much sums up your standing regarding who is qualified to pass judgement about quality control issues.
As to your analogies, I hope you give more credit to the intelligence of potential buyers when they walk into your dealership. If those analogies have any merit to our discussion, then might I add that a Yugo salesman telling his customer that Yugos have impecable fit/finish as far as he can "spot" them is analogous to your qualifications concerning Hondas.
"I, on the other hand can see on differences nor can tha majority of the people who buy them."
Finally, lets not generalize and speak for the masses when you have trouble qualifying yourself rationally or logically. I'm sure Honda owners of American and Japanese made Accords have and will speak differently to your blanket statement.
The V-6 transmission problem was discussed in detail as well as fit and finish. One of the biggest quality assurance issues that Honda faced was the balancer shaft seal problem. Honda finally admitted it was a design flaw and installed a $3.00 clip that solved the problem. Prior, balancer shaft seals were blowing which caused the seal, timing belt and sometimes the water pump to be replaced prematurely. A friend of mine had the problem and it cost him $700.00 to have the car towed and the problem corrected. Eventually, he was fortunate enough to have Honda reimburse him for all his expenses except towing when they had their recall bulletin.
The fit and finish issue has been ongoing. As everyone knows by now, the Japanese factories do not have the same EPA standards as US factories. Japanese utilize an "oil base" whereas the American factories use a "water base" in its car painting process. Hazing on the dark colored painted Accords such as hunter green was a result of the water base standard.
In conclusion, Honda does have its share of quality assurance issues to address in recent years. I guess, people remember the "bullet proof" Accords produced in the late 80's and early 90's and use this as a benchmark. Accords at that time were considered one of the best cars produced in America.
Consumer Reports doesn't seem to note any distinctions, which I suspect they might if there were significant differences; alternately the alleged lower quality of U.S. built cars would drive down the ratings on all Accords and thus the CR rating would reflect that lower level.
I also wonder if anyone has checked to see what pollution laws in Japan are regarding painting cars. Does anyone have any evidence that the Japanese cars are painted differently? Different paint codes perhaps? An easy way to check that would be to see if the touch-up paints are different for Japan cars vs. U.S. models. Bet they aren't.
I have said in other topics that I think that Honda had decontented their cars in recent years (although they are perhaps starting to 'recontent'them), but I still believe that Honda's quality is better than almost anybody else's except Toyotas. Nobody,however, including the God Toyota has PERFECT quality.
Sometimes I think we are arguing about how many Angels will fall while dancing on the head of a pin, here.
O.K....In the six years I've sold Hondas, I have heard an ocassional comment that the quality level in Japan built cars is somewhat higher than in U.S. cars. Mostly in these forums.
Curious, I have from time to time inspected two cars sitting side by side that were built in the two different factories.
And...I haven't been able to detect even the slightest difference!
I think in those six years, I may have had TWO customers ask that I find them a Japan built car for the reason you mention.
That is TWO people out of the literally HUNDREDS of Accords I've sold.
So, I guess the majority of our customers don't care either way.
THAT has been my point throughout this exchange.
You seem to want to make this some kind of a flame war...I decline.
Perhaps someday there will be empiracle evidence to prove you are correct in some way.
But..."far superior" (not your words) no way!
On every bottle, there is a batch number.
He SWEARS some batches are better than others and has gone from store to store looking for the number he likes the best.
He has tried to prove his theory to me via a taste test. For the life of me, they tasted the same.
Maybe I'm not picky enough or something?
When I get the receipt it says "oil - Texaco 10"
When I asked the service rep what grade oil they use, i got a "We use what Honda recommends"
I bet these guys are just throughing in the cheapest stuff they can get 10W-30. What affect will this have on my engine? Is there any way to make sure they're using the right oil? can Anybody recommend any local dealers?
Thanks
My Honda dealer uses Castrol 10W30, or at least that is what they put on the service ticket.
You can use 10W30 in you 2001 with no ill effects.
In addition, I have watched them changed my transmission fluid with Honda Transmission fluid.
I guess you have to ask what type of motor oil they use when changing you oil and filter.
He did say that Hondas and Toyotas are the best built cars that he works on. Ironically, he says that his Honda and Toyota customers come in for only oil changes and routine maintenance as indicated in the owners guide.
Next time, I will ask. Hope it isn't that bulk motor oil that comes in those 50 gallon drums!
I did notice that there were only 3 2002 Accords on the lot. One V-6 and two I-4's. Ironically, both I-4's vin numbers began with J. He told me that the Accords are flying off the lot. Did notice that 8 new Civics were delivered while I was there. The salesman told me that the Civics are also selling briskly.
In the service department, I say one of the service advisors handed new TSB's titled "Transmissions". Just thought I would relay this information.
i've been disappointed by rather minor quality issues: the driver's side window regulator needs to be replaced (the window-- if open to any extent rattles when i shut the door); and there's an unlocateable irritating creaking/cracking/squeaking sort of noise somewhere in the rear shelf on the left side, but only when the outside temperature is below freezing.
so-- after owning a canadian built 97 Civic and then a '00 Ohio-assembled Accord-- and having a few similar problems with each, i'd have to say they all seem about even. just my 2 cents.
Well, I'm on my third Accord - one Japanese and two American. Darned if I can see a slip in quality. My current car is a 2000 Accord EX. I will admit to being tempted by an SE at the time because it was built in Japan (and it was available in red). I wanted my 5-speed (not available on the SE) more than I wanted a Japanese built car. I'm nearing 40,000 miles and not so much as a little warranty repair.
Later that month, I had the oil changed on my 91 Mazada Protege (175,000 miles and purring) at the same dealership. However, the oil they placed in my Mazda was the standard Pennzoil 5W-30 from the 55 gallon containers.
The bill was about 3 dollars cheaper, but I was surprised by the apparent oil switch-a-roo that was going on. Granted, I take pride in the way I maintain my cars and in my humble opinion, unless you're will to spend major bucks on synthetic; oil is oil, but I was still surprised that the dealership would give not use Honda oil in a non-Honda vehical.
As for this Japanese v. American/Canadian built issue, my Japanese built Accord has gone through it's share of teething problems. I think that those of us that own Honda's regardless of where it's built, can rest assured that we've got a tight and reliable car with a great resale value. Never mind I'm keeping mine till the tires fall off.
I would say the Altima is slightly more quiet than the Accord at highway speeds.
The Altima interior looks cheap as compared to the Accord. Absolutely the worst leather seats I have ever had the pleasure sitting in--the Altima.
Fit and Finish---I would give it a dead heat. Both cars looked flawless.
Transmission (automatic)---I would rate the Altima a slight favorite.
Exhaust sound---Altima all the way. Sounds like an expensive European-German sedan.
Price---Accord hands down right now. I bet in a few months though you will be able to wheel and deal on the Altima like other Nissan products.
Reliability--Edge goes to Honda unless the new Nissan Altima develops a proven track record.
Anyone else drive both vehicles?
Read some Nissan board complaints about paint from their US plant on cars and trucks. Sounds sort of familiar doesn't it. It has to be the EPA guidelines of a "water based" paint.
Lowenbrau from Germany made an excellent beer in the late 1970's that was exported to the USA. Miller brewery bought the Lowenbrau name and bottled it here in the USA. Same bottle but quite a different beer. Try to find a bottle of Lowenbrau today?
If so, please post them here.
After about 200 miles, I hear a slight 'whine' from the transmission. Shifting into neutral or park eliminates the whine. In drive, under acceleration off the line, it becomes a little louder. Is this normal? (By the way, all my other vehicles were 5-speeds; this is my first auto trans!)
Anyway, as for the oil, my '01's engine was loud--until I used 5W30 oil in place of the 5W20. I noticed no performance difference and will continue to use 5W30 in the '02. The Owner's manual alludes to using 5W30 if 5W20 is not available.
I saw one photo of the '03 Accord--if I can find it again, I'll post. It's supposed to have a new engine, 160 HP, VVT-i--the one that is being placed in the forthcoming CRV. Sleeker lines.
By the way, in my search for an Accord replacement, I thoroughly tested the Camry, Altima, Subaru Legacy, and Passat. The new Camry has an excellent 4-cylinder! But that's all I can say for it; I'm not impressed with it's styling or bland interior. The Altima looks like a good contender but has a few things I disliked--the interior looks chintzy to me although the body style is great. It's also a new design, so a few bugs may happen. Ah, the Passat. The BEST of the bunch that I drove--my first choice. (But the deal on a trade combined with Honda's rebate made me go with the Accord after I could not find a Passat on local dealers' lots equiped as I wanted.) Oh, the Accord STILL is an excellent buy with good styling and holds its own when all factors are considered.
One last observation: the sound system in the LX is audibly superior to the EX! (Yes, I'm an audiophile and engineer.)
Now--can anyone provide input on my LX's auto transmission's 'whine?' Thanks in advance!
Ironically, a friend of mine had a 2001 Passat that gave him all kinds of problems.(documented by VW dealership). Volkswagen bought it back and gave him a rebate towards another VW product. He opted for the Jetta. (Mexican made). No problems with the Jetta as of yet.
Is it a dirty fuel injector? I've done maintainances as Honda says and this is very scary. Also, my door lock squeaks when I lock and unlock it, but when I bring it to the shop, it never squeaks!!! This 01 Accord is annoying.
I would try to duplicate the violent shake with a service advisor the next time you bring your car in for maintenance. Take him for a ride and show him what you mean.
By the way, you mentioned you have an 01 Accord but you didn't say if it was an I-4 or a 6 cylinder.
The transmission whine is not normal m9431. Have it checked ASAP at the dealership. If they tell you it is a normal sound, tell them they are wrong. Ask them to take another model out with you in it and compare the cars.
I agree, Honda needs to address the V-6 automatic transmission issue on the new model.
Maybe there is something to this Honda Quality Control thread.
They did pick the Accord in the $15,000 to $24,000 class and they liked the Civic in its class. But I guess neither was that superior to edge out Ford overall!
Here is another question - If the Accord is such a superior car why is it not used by some private individuals as a taxi? At least I've never seen one.You'd think that some individual who was smart would buy one due to its superior reliability which sould translates into lower operating cost.
Or for that matter why aren't Acura's (3.5, Legends) used by limo companies? You'd think that someone would see that light.
Ford might have some great ideas but their cars (I didn't say trucks folks) just don't hold up reliability wise. Some engineering fiascoes as the 1996 Ford Taurus and the Ford Contour come to mind.
As far as Honda taxi cabs, you will find them in large numbers in Southeast Asia, China, Korea and Japan. Individuals are the prime owners of taxis in these regions and not large cab companies. Remember in the USA, Honda doesn't have any fleet sales such as Ford. That is why you don't see any Accord or Acura taxi cabs.
the reason chevy's and fords are used extencively as cabs and police vehicles in the US is the cheap parts, and lower labor rates by shops fixing those cars, as well as the brute force produced by their mammoth v8's. also fleet sales by these manufacturers give these big customers huge discounts that none of us will ever see.
Some of the highest rated cars are manufactured in Japan. Names such as Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura to name a few. Given a choice between an American built and Japanese built Accord, I would opt for the Japanese model.
Fit and Finish has always been the Japanese strong point in the automotive industry. JD Powers survey always lists the Lexus and Infinity right at the top in customer satisfaction.
The Accord is a great car, but the fit, finish, and "solidity" of the Civic was substantially better.
I used to (half) joke that closing the door on my Civic was like closing a bank vault door...
I would have been happy to spend the extra 1-2k to get the better fit/finish/solidity that my old Civic had...
-brett