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2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And it's funny how I've read some very good reviews of the Hyundai Tiburon, with the editors calling it entertaining and a good value. But, since this is all "mindless information", I guess we should just discard all of this praise for Hyundai.
But, once compared to other vehicles in it's class, the Koreans have their work cut out for them. Car and Driver did an excellent comparison of 13 small sedans. These "American car magazines" have a distinct habit of hating "American" cars, but they still scored higher than the Koreans...
Here's sections of the article:
"Thirteenth Place: Kia Sephia LS"
"Kia is a relatively new player in the U.S. market, although not quite the tenderfoot it might seem; Ford Festivas and Aspires of the '80s and '90s came from Korea's Kia. But the Ford deal has ended, and now Kia is following the path of so many hopeful importers who came to this country with no reputation and little experience, intent on grabbing a piece of our 17-million annual car market."
"The Sephia's last-place rating in this test, by a clear margin, suggests that Kia still has plenty of upgrading to do. That's if you're gauging this car as we do, holding it up to the levels of sophistication achieved by Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda. The Sephia makes enough thrumming noises and quivering branggs as it shuttles down the highway, makes enough big deals out of small bumps, and loses enough parts as it passes (the rubber windshield molding blew off in the top-speed test) to constantly remind us that it's still a work in progress."
"On the other hand, for the rock-bottom price of $13,324 as tested, lowest of the group, you get a brand-new car with a list of features that's about average for this group, including power locks, windows, and mirrors; cruise control; a CD player; and more. On the inside, Kia has made more effort toward color coordination and pleasing materials than many of the others here, including Saturn, the spendiest car of the bunch.
The Sephia's performance is mostly on the low side of average, although top-gear acceleration is midpack. Top speed, at 119 mph, tied the gutsy Hyundai while outrunning all the others."
"In the rear, footroom is generous under the front buckets, but the seat itself leans back like a La-Z-Boy, drawing complaints from all. Space back there is about average for the group, comfort is below average."
"Value shoppers will be reassured by the three-year/36,000-mile vehicle warranty and five-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty."
"Highs: Best price in town, smart color coordination inside, did we mention "low price"?
Lows: Enough vibrations to start your own garage band, weak braking, yesterday's styling.
The Verdict: In price and behavior, sorta like a brand-new used car."
First place went to (surprise!) a Japanese car.
"First Place: Mazda Protege ES"
"This Mazda tops the charts for driving fun. Its chassis muscles are athletic, its engine is sweet and strong, its controls are precise and direct, and the look is classy inside and out. This is a car that does everything well. And it has spirit. BMW verve for less than half the price. What's not to like?"
"The quality of this car starts with body structure, as solid as the vault at Wells Fargo. No rattles and buzzes. No quivers and thrums. And there's room for very tall drivers. The seat knows exactly how the orthopedist told you to sit. It's easy to find a good driving position in this car. There's a wonderful leanness all about you, with imaginative shapes to please the eye, but no fat, no froufrou. Just pure car flavor delivered without distraction."
"This is a disciplined machine with quick, sure suspension responses starting right down where the low-profile 195/55VR-15 Bridgestones meet the pavement. So you can hurry without worry. Path control is excellent, whether you're bending through the twisties or cruising the interstate. Acceleration numbers trail the Dodge Neon's by a nose, until the Protege, with its songful 1840cc, pulls ahead to finish the quarter in 16.8 seconds at 82 mph. A glimpse of the handling prowess appears in the results of the emergency-lane-change test, where the Mazda outruns all but the big-tired Hyundai, which squeaks through 0.1 mph faster."
"Although most of the fun happens in the driver's seat, this four-door also takes exceptionally good care of its passengers. For both two and three occupants in the rear seat, the Mazda ranked just behind the Focus. Both of these sedans have high, firm rear benches with good thigh support and excellent footroom under the front buckets."
"There aren't many sedans at any price that can match the dynamic balance of this Mazda, that possess the quick, confident moves and the carved-from-billet integrity of structure. At a sticker of $15,570, this Protege ES seems an easy choice."
"Highs: Classy looks inside and out, quality feel, sports-sedan power and handling.
Lows: Compared with the others, no complaints.
The Verdict: A small car that makes us feel rich."
You can read the full article at http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2000/Jun/200006_comparisontest_littl.xml?&page=1
Amen.
(Speakin of time....iluvmysephia seems to have a lot of time on his hands too. Maybe that's why he can only afford a -- what is it? -- oh yeah -- a Kia??) =O)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
anybody who owns a hyundai/kia knows the secret the non-owners don't know. we get ALOT more than we pay for. with the other makers you get what you pay for sometimes.
Not saying you have not outraced a Celica in an Elantra, but there may be another explanation besides the car.
I did look at the Korean makes and models, but I liked what I saw in the Toyota better.
The initial quality is not as good in a Korean make as it is in the Toyota, but don't take my word for it. Look at the J.D. Powers initial quality survey. This is a survey of ACTUAL OWNERS.
Daewoo does not have a long enough track record in this country to really talk about whether or not they are reliable in the long haul, but that lack of a track record counted against them.
Kia has a somewhat longer track record and it did not inspire confidence in me. I especially did not like all the brake problems I saw reported in the 1999 Kia Sephias.
Hyundai has the longest track record here and it scared me the most. I remember all the early models. I also talked to actual owners of more recent Hyundai models and while Hyundai has improved from those early days, they have not improved enough to suit me.
Hope that you continue to enjoy your vehicle.
Are you going to provide documentation or is it all a bluff?
I find it wildly amusing that you have not responded to the fact that J.D. Powers and AutoPacific surveyed ACTUAL OWNERS. Surely an actual owner of a Daewoo, Hyundai, or Kia wouldn't be "brain washed" by the "vast Toyota conspiracy" after the purchase of their vehicles.
If the Koreans are such leaders in styling; why do parts of the Hyundai XG300 look like a Jaguar; why does the Kia Sedona look like a cross between a Dodge Caravan and a Ford Windstar with a hood from a Mercedes; and why does the next generation Tiburon look like one of its parents was a Mitsubishi Eclipse?
Do you think you can answer those questions; deal with the J.D. Powers and AutoPacific surveys being from actual car owners; and, answer me one final question without an insult or wisecrack?
The final question is if you are honest enough with yourself to tell us why Hyundai and Kia went to the 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty?
In what category?
Hmmm... let's see how the lower price stacks up:
Base MSRP is lower on Sephia.
Moonroof is... not available on Sephia.
Side airbags are... not available on Sephia.
EBFD is... not available on Sephia.
Fog lights are... not available on Sephia.
4-wheel disc brakes are... not available on Sephia.
CD is... extra cost on Sephia.
Power mirrors are... extra cost on Sephia.
Intermittent wipers are... extra cost on Sephia.
Alloy wheels are... extra cost on Sephia.
Cruise control is... extra cost on Sephia.
However:
Poor Safety Rating by IIHS... standard on Sephia
So, once you add in all of the extra cost options, the Sephia stills comes in lower in cost. Is it a good value? At first glance, sure. But, let's add in some of the items not available on the Sephia that is standard on a Japanese car, such as the Protege. Higher passive and active safety (dollar amount: ?). Higher levels of performance- better acceleration, better handling, better braking (dollar amount: ?). Higher levels of refinement (dollar amount: ?). Higher resale value (dollar amount: ?). It seems to me that the Kia may be a better value on the Maroney, but not a better value overall.
Toyota Echo-kinda cartoonish but growing on me. looks like it came out of an anime movie
Kia Sephia-doesnt really stand out in a crowd like that quiet guy from high school. as interesting as a white wall.
Mazda Protoge-this car i like. not too garishbut sporty looking with the alloys and spoiler.
Honda civic-the angular body leaves a bit to be desired compared to my 98 civic. last gen civic looked the best IMO of all civics. Cant wait until new civic type r debuts.
Hyundai Elantra- not a bad looking car. Im not sure of the bobtail trunk though. definately an improvement over the last elantra
More to follow
My .02
Kia Sephia: Car & Driver calls it the best new used car. OK. I bought Kia Sephia because I could purchase a brand new car at used car prices. Namely April 2000 purchase of White 5spd 4dr sdn
rear defogger, auto trunk latch, auto gas latch at $8600 incl tax & title. At 27000miles with two major long haul trips completed. On one leg of a past trip we recorded 42mpg with wife driving; recent 3600mi trip documented 38.2mpg leading the pack for half the trip. As a consumer
I didnt want the trimmings because I didnt want to pay for them. I purchased Sephia because I wanted a new car at used car prices. From my perspective they have delivered value. The future remains to be seen. Perhaps you all get tired of my mantra, but facts are facts. And as for Sephia looks. It blends well with the current generation of aerodynamic duplicates. Personnally from the tail it resembles my old neighbors Baby Benz. From the head it resembles the Escort & Contour. From the side it looks like all the Asian cars. For me, its not what goodies you get to enhance your basic model; its what you keep in your pocket and still get the job done. Supreme
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Maybe Hyundai hasn't matched the first tier Japanese makes for fit and finish, but it blows the second tier makes away. To me, the Mazda 626 is a Japanese Ford Tempo. The Mitsubishi Diamante is a once glorious car that has been emasculated by decontenting. Subarus are interesting but ugly.
Suzuki and Isuzu aren't even contenders.
If I can wholeheartedly recommend any low end car it is the Chevrolet Impala. For around $18K, one can get a large, well-appointed, high-performing, well-constructed car. I currnetly drive a Cadillac Deville and I wouldn't be ashamed of a base Impala. My girlfriend bought a 2001 on March 12 and she absolutlely loves her car. Everybody I've seen with a new Impala praises the car to no end. I highly recommend those shopping in the low end of the price spectrum to check out the Impala.
By the way, if you want to see what a Corolla can and should look like, email me at badtoy@earthlink.net and I'll send you some pix of my car. Think you might like it (even if it is a bit overpriced!).
imapala is an awsome car. i like the older model better (who didn't) but this one is great too and it is cheap. i thinks its a pretty cool car. and the WRX is FAST! that car is the perfect car for me. 4 doors and 14 second quarter mile. its a dream for that price. i can't wait till the WRX STI comes out, it will compete with the mitsu evolutions, both which do 0-60 under 5!
The American low end, for some time has been just that... the low end. I like the new Ford Focus. It's looks, feel and handling are a step up from many of the Asian low end cars, any recall's notwithstanding.
Volkswagon, on the Euro side, makes very attractive and mostly different cars that also cost considerably more. But, they're among the best drivers cars you can get for the money. Poor reliability is the dark cloud that they are having a hard time shaking.
No doubt the Korean car makers are on the upswing. In my opinion, the Kia and Hyundai lineups seem to be attractive enough but they don't offer anything really new or different and they certainly don't stand out from much of the competition except in price. Again, generic comes to mind. High content for low cost is definitely their primary selling point.
Behind the wheel, is where I notice the most significant differences. In that respect, the Korean, and American cars (again with the exception of the Focus) still suffer from a kind of terminal tinnyness that I also associate with Suzuki and Isuzu on the Japanese side. The fit and finish and ride of a Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda and Volkswagon is just crisper with better feel to the switches, doors, steering, and manual gearboxes.
The reason I ask is that there is a guy on the AOL auto board who claims that Kia and Hyundai started their "long haul warranty" because they loved their customers. I just wanted to see your take on it.
I will deal with the rest of your post later.
The Kia Sephia and Kia Sportage both use slightly modified Mazda engines. The Sephia uses the Mazda "BP"-series 1.8L DOHC 4-cyl engine along with the first and second generation Protege, Ford Escort, and Mercury Tracer. A relative of this same engine family is still used in the Miata. The Sportage uses the Mazda FE3 2.0L DOHC 4-cyl, which is a amalgamation of the 1984-87 Mazda B2000/MX6 block with the DOHC head from the "B" family of Mazda engines.
Kia suspension design also borrows heavily from Mazda's suspension design. However, the Kia unibody is not rigid enough to take advantage of the handling that is capable of this suspension, as evidenced in the Protege. Actually, most of Kia's engineering is heavily influenced by Mazda design and engineering.
Since Kia survived solely on the Sephia and Sportage for many years, Kia-lovers must respect Mazda. Without the Mazda engines and engineering to grow from, Kia would have started from scratch... and probably wouldn't be around today.
Protege boxy and bland? Oh wait, that's right, you think the Sephia is the best looking car on the road regardless of price-range... I'll just keep out of the styling opinion war... However, from side-profile, IMO, the Sephia looks like a combination of the last generation Corolla and the Ford Contour.
I put we in quotes because I don't feel that I have ever attacked anyone personally. I mean, I have not called anyone a Korean-hater or a Japanese-lover.
AND majorecho i said #1 IN THEIR CATEGORY. that means s-u-b c-o-m-p-a-c-t m-i-d s-i-z-e etc. do you understand now?? i do not care about quality category i care about what is the best overall.
i think suburu WRX is the best car in its class because it has everything you could want.
Our Korean/American neighbor had a Kia...but not for very long as she likes reliability. She now has a Nissan Pathfinder and Mercury Contour.
Korean cars may have made drastic improvements in quality but the perception of quality and reliability place them just above the Yugo, Fiat and Renault in the opinion of most Americans.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
What should it matter what I think, what your neighbors think, what your co-workers think, what your parents, siblings, or children think of your car purchase.
As long as you are happy with it, that is all that matters.
I don't know the future, but I seriously doubt it.
Only time will tell.
I read all the reviews on my car and it didn't matter to me as I was reading them whether or not they agreed with my viewpoint. I like hearing all sides of an issue. It is just the kind of man I am.
It is funny that the Integra replacement (the RSX) is going back to the single headlight design. It is a good thing because the dual lights would look funny on this new design.
I will give the value of just a few cars in excellent condition, but if you want to know the value of yours, just let me know. I am not going to deal with what options do to the values. I just don't have that kind of time. I hope you understand.
A 2000 Daewoo Lanos S Hatchback stickered for $9699 and has a retail value of $8050.
A 2000 Hyundai Accent L Hatchback stickered for $9434 and has a retail value of $$8150.
A 2000 Kia Sephia Sedan stickered for $11605 and has a retail value of $8825. BTW, a 1999 Kia Sephia stickered for the same and has a retail value of $8300.
A 2000 Mazda Protege DX sedan stickered for $13,995 and has a retail value of $11,900.
Finally, a 2000 Toyota Echo sedan stickered for $11,945 and has a retail value of $12,150. Yes, that is not a typo. A used 2000 Echo has a retail value higher than the sticker price when it was new. From personal observation, I can confirm that this is true at least where I live. The one or two used Echos that I have seen advertised had prices that were higher than when they were new.
Some people will dismiss my figures with an insult or rude remark and some people will be disappointed that their vehicle (if I listed it) lost value but will take the news politely. It does not matter to me how you react so take this anyway you want.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
The ECHO is one of only 2 small cars which are comfortable for my wife and I. The PT Cruiser is more expensive and burns twice the gasoline.
But remember that the higher the amount the dealer can sell a used car for, the more he is going to give you for it in trade.
But in the final analysis, what this all means is that it is vitally important that you take care of your car whether it be made by Koreans, Japanese, Europeans, or Americans.
I read somewhere that Toyota dealerships were the most profitable.I wondered how they did that-now I know.The customer list from a Toyota dealer would be a telemarketers dream.
Why talk about depreciation-Toyota dealers must score the highest on customer "appriciation".Someone should see if Powers has an award for that.
majorthomecho:
On 03/02/2001 i reported in the kia sephia discussion #206 that kbb listed 2000 kia sephia with 21000miles @ $8090 & i paid $7976. im not surprised at your findings; used cars obtain whatever the traffic will bear. and purchasers can buy them &/or new vehicles for whatever the deal they can make. supreme.
Toyota management style seems to be VERY different from the norm of USA management. USA management theory seems to be "maximize profits with no regard to employee or product quality." Toyota's may cost more because many people place a premium on Reliability.