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Comments
KYLE
Carleton...Maybe everyone is not as impressed with Toyota as you are
Yes, not everyone is as impressed with Toyota quality as I am since there are many other brands seen on the highways. Aren't we lucky? Without GM Suburban or Ford Expedition, there would have been no incentive for Toyota to built the very nice Sequoia to compete.
Notice how Honda copied Toyota and came out with the CR-V after Toyota showed them how with the RAV-4?
#204 of #209 Toyota is ONE foreign brand that is NOT over rated by carleton1 Dec 28, 2001 (07:05 pm)
"Toyota has the best reliability and quality record of any automobile maker that mass produces vehicles.
People love to brag about "Honda Reliability" that has not materialized with many people I know who have owned Hondas. BUT...not one problem with a Toyota."
by Carleton1
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#17 of #143 I agree with Mr Shiftright (Host) by carleton1 Dec 22, 2001 (09:17 pm)
"We will NOT buy any more junk after having bad experiences with 2 NEW Volkswagens, 1 NEW Volvo, and 3 used Volkswagens. Our 11 NEW GM vehicles and 1 NEW 1999 Grand Caravan have been far more reliable than any of the foreign made JUNK.
I will buy a Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc. when the reliability becomes as good as GM, DC, and Ford and the foreign brands have as much comfort and quality vehicles made by the Big 3 at a comparable price....."
by Carleton1
Carleton, which is it? Toyota = poor reliability? or Toyota = top box reliability?
-Larry
#1. "Toyota has the best reliability and quality record of any automobile maker that mass produces vehicles."
#2. "I will buy a Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc. when the reliability becomes as good as GM, DC, and Ford and the foreign brands have as much comfort and quality vehicles made by the Big 3 at a comparable price....."
WHAT is it about "at a comparable price" that you can not understand?
The Sienna is the MOST reliable minivan. We did not buy a Sienna as it is MUCH more expensive and is considerably smaller than our GC and has fewer nice features.
Summary: Toyota has the Best reliability. If we have problems with our GC, we won't buy another DC product. We would not get a Mazda MPV (Most Puny Vehicle) since it is too small with too little engine power. What Mazda comes close to matching Toyota in sales or reliability?
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Also, I needed some words to rhyme with the preceding line. ;-)
4-wheel independent suspension (Corolla was RWD)
Front and rear stabilizer bars
Full wheel covers
Variable intermittent wipers
AM/FM casette stereo with 4 speakers
Cloth upholstery
Folding rear seat
Power steering
Adjustable steering column
Front and rear cupholders
Front door pockets
Remote fuel door (Corolla had a locking fuel door)
Dual remote mirrors
Dual air bags
Front seat belt pre-tensioners
5 year/60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty
10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty
I think back in 1980 Toyotas had a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty--I lost the sticker (the only new-car sticker I don't have from all my vehicles :-( ).
So considering inflation, I think low-end car buyers have it pretty good here in the waning hours of 2001.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Just being here on Edmunds means people have the smarts to find out what a car should cost. That we have differing opinions and brand loyalty has little to do with intelligence or research, just past experience, personal preference and perhaps even ideology.
There are cars I like from the US, Korea, Japan and Europe that start at under $15K. I lived in Korea for two years and am rather tired of Korean cars (since there is little else over there), but the Elantra GT was EXTREMELY tempting when I bought my Galant two weeks ago, ditto the VW Golf, Ford Focus and Saturn L100 Special Edition ($16,100 with my GM-S employee pricing I get from my retired mom).
It wasn't brand loyalty or country of origin that influenced my purchase, jsut the car. The Saturn was probably the best value, but my wife already has an L200 (great car). The VW was the coolest-looking inside and out, while the Elantra GT was the most practical and possibly tied with the VW for the most fun to drive. The Galant was simply the smoothest, quietest and most luxurious car I could afford, and despite my previous enthusiast leanings, that is what I wanted this time around.
As for the tin cans, sometimes those cars are very much appreciated. I had the original 1986 Chevy Sprint (nee Geo Metro) when I was in High School, and to be able to drive 55 miles on a gallon of fuel was a wonderful thing, as were car payments under $160 per month. I could have bought a ten-year-old Corolla or Civic for the same, but purchase price is only part of the equation. That Sprint was a reliable car, and cost next to nothing to own and operate, which was a very good thing.
We mostly compared minivans, small SUV's, and family sedans. With comparable equipment the Toyota appeared to be more expensive: Sienna more than Odyssey, RAV-4 more expensive than CR-V, and Camry more expensive than Accord.
Shrique, I guess some folks call it "arrogance", I call it the "Free Market System". If you have a well run Honda or Toyota dealership in a smaller market, you can sell your cars for smaller discounts. Why should they "cheap sell" hot product? It's truly the American way. PROFIT is not a bad word. Most educated buyers do not get "worked over". Why, because we know the market price and we go for the best deal that is reasonable. My 2 cents. Furthermore, if ANY dealership plays games with me, I'm outa there! :-)
-Larry
Notice that Mazda, Subaru, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Isuzu and other low quality Japanese brands were not included in the statement?
To many people, Kia and Hyundai are now equal to or superior to all Japanese brands but Toyota, Toyota Lexus, Honda, Honda Acura, and Nissan Infinity.
Honda and Toyota are fabulous products which have earned their reputations by a combination of quality and listening to what their customers want. When I lived in Montreal 20 years ago, Subaru was wildly popular on account of giving Canadians (and I would imagine snow-bound Americans as well) what they wanted - front and four wheel drive. Those Subaru wagons are still popular in places with inclement weather, as I just saw in rural Washington state last week.
Mitsubishi never really understood the American customer, hence their product is soft on the market. The Eclipse went from its first generation as a sporty, inexpensive car with useful technology to an overstyled imitation sports car that is really a family sedan with the many virtues of that bodystyle compromised for styling - overdone styling at that.
Mazda (now part of Ford) has always been a favorite of mine, making very high quality cars that are more often than not a real ball to drive compared to their competition. The current 626 is a bit underpowered compared to Accord/Camry/Galant/Altima, but handles better and is by no means slow, even with the smallish four cylinder.
Nissan had some serious marketing blunders too, mostly due to styling. I bought a 97 Sentra when they were practically giving them away with $2000 rebates. That was an ugly, boring-looking car, that in almost every specification was inferior to the 1997 Civic, Corolla or Protege, but it was also $2000 cheaper, every bit as high-quality, was quite fun to drive (5-speed) and handled well once the stock General tires were ditched for a set of Pirellis.
I think the Koreans are where that Nissan was five years ago, they have a very high quality product (at least Hyundai does), which in specification doesn't match Honda/Mazda/Toyota, but when value for dollar is figured in, it becomes a very competitive product. I think most of us would take a Camry over a Sonata if they were the same price, but the Sonata is almost as good as the Camry, for the price of a loaded Corolla. Many people would prefer the Corolla with its Toyota reputation, and would be making a wise purchase in doing so. Likewise the Sonata buyer would be equally wise, it depends entirely on priorities and what one wants.
If you could still get a "nicely" equipped $8500 Civic that was reliable and solidly engineered, would you still buy a Daewoo? Probably not.
The Americans tend to do trucks very well too, which shouldn't be a surprise since that is where they have devoted the vast majority of R&D dollars. The reason cars like the Cavalier are put against vastly superior Civics, Corollas and yes, Elantras, is because GM is neglecting its small cars. The S Series Saturns were revolutionary, if unrefined cars back in 1991, and they still aren't bad, but ten years have passed, and they should have had balance shafts for the engine and a taller space frame that would allow a rear seat that wasn't bolt-upright. Those are pretty major changes, changes that would normally wait for a change in model, but what other models have had ten-year production runs?
As for the $8500 Civic, that is not possible. An $11,000 Civic with AC, stereo and little else would be quite a bargain, but Honda doesn't see enough profit that low in the sticker scale, and so chooses not to compete there. The Accent for $9000 is a fantastic bargain, is well-made, and represents exactly the same thing tha the Civic hatchback used to in the 1980s. If I was a college kid witih a part-time job, I'd buy one in a heartbeat and have a blast every time I drove it.
Toyota Has Big Plans For Smaller Cars
Toyota Motor Corp. plans to export several low-priced compact cars to the United States to attract younger customers and boost market share, according to a newspaper reported. [sic]
Japan's biggest automaker is finalizing plans to introduce three or four of the models in the United States, some of which it will unveil at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit starting on Jan. 6, the Nihon Keizai newspaper said, without citing a source. The report didn't say when the cars will go on sale.
The vehicles are to be based on the Vitz compact sedan--known as the Echo in the United States--and come with engines ranging from 1.5 liters to 1.8 liters. In Japan, the cars are expected to sell for between $7,570 and $15,140, the report added.
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA /2002/01/03/WKA2002010354867_pv.jpg
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA /2002/01/03/WKA2002010355055_pv.jpg
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA /2002/01/03/WKA2002010355425_pv.jpg
Those are sport editions. Edmunds won't let me post the whole link for some reason so you will have to copy and paste it where I broke it apart at WKA and /2002. Sorry about that.
We may now have a new small car in the battle arena for us to talk about. The Matrix base model 5 speed is going for under $15,000! What shock to see it priced at or below Vibe.
Notice that Mazda, Subaru, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Isuzu and other low quality Japanese brands were not included in the statement?
To many people, Kia and Hyundai are now equal to or superior to all Japanese brands but Toyota, Toyota Lexus, Honda, Honda Acura, and Nissan Infinity.
-Carleton
Carleton, do you ever read and think about what you are saying/posting before you click on the post button? OK, re-read your above post. Yea,...re-read that post. OK, now think about what you wrote. Is that really your opinion. Unbelievable, really.
-Larry
Chill please! It is entirely possible to disagree agreeably, so could you both just give it a shot? Thanks, that would be very nice, and would be compliant with your Membership Agreement, you know?
Coolguy, your problem (actually Town Hall's problem, not yours) is the multiple links in one message. Next time try adding "(br)" after each of your links, but look at how you really have to do it - replace the "(" with "<" and the ")" with the ">" and lose all of the quote marks in my examples here. I couldn't get my actual example to post; if this makes no sense email me, and I'll try again.
That may allow you to post them. (But I don't promise a thing, I must say!)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Respectfully,
Larry
Kia Rio with 1.5L gets 25/30 while Honda Civic with 1.7L gets 30/38, Toyota ECHO with 1.5L gets 32/38.
Kia Optima 2.7L gets 18/24, Honda Accord 3.0L gets 20/28, Camry 3.0L gets 20/28 and the larger Chevy Impala 3.4L gets even better 21/32.
All of the above are with automatic transmissions.
What seems to be the problem with Kia engines/transmissions?
Carl
This being said, I don't think any of these strategies is wrong. As long as you are happy with what you bought as a consumer, that's fine.
http://www.toyota.com/corolla
Looking good!