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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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Comments

  • supremesupreme Member Posts: 38
    03-02-2002
    The problem is that one seller would not sell me a set of 4tires for my Kia because the book that indexes the tires for the KIA specifies 185/65/14R(H) and the tire they sell is a 185/65/14R(s). The difference is that the "H" indicates a high rating on the speedometer which on my Kia max's out at 135mph. The "S" tire 'ought(?)' only to be sold to vehicles below 100mph. Therefore she would not sell me the tires. Now maybe she didnt want to honor what I considered a good deal or maybe they just dont like Korean Cars and wont sell tires to Korean Car owners. In any event, I went to another dealer and bought the "S" tire for less money than the first dealer. I didnt lose on the deal, nor did it raise my blood pressure, but it was an inconvenience, particularly when I had shopped and had made my decision to buy the first dealers product from whom I had purchased several sets of tires in the past for various cars I've owned. I havent figured it out yet, but maybe there isnt anything to figure out. Supreme
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    why Kia would put H-rated tires on a car that will never get close to 130 mph, even going downhill with a stiff tailwind? I guess they should be commended for putting more tire on the car than is necessary.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Wife and I are renting a brand-new (550 mi) Camry LE for the weekend in Orlando. This experience is demonstrating to me what a great value some of the low-end cars are and raises the question in my mind why anyone would spend $5-8000 or so more for a Camry than for the likes of a Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Focus, Lancer, or Protege. Sure, the Camry is a little quieter and smoother riding than the best small cars--but not much. The engine (4-cyl.) is pretty peppy--but no more so than an Elantra or maybe Corolla. The rear seat has a little more room, and 3 adults will be more comfortable there than in a small car--but the best small cars will seat two adults or three kids just fine, and 3 adults in a pinch. What you give up with the Camry is handling (not bad for its size but not as good as most small cars), road feel (unless you prefer a cushiony ride), mpg (although the Camry is very good for its size), ease of parking, and even some features believe it or not. For example, this $20,000 car is missing some features that are standard on my Elantra, like number of adjustments for the driver's seat (the Elantra's is more comfortable to me), cloth-covered center armrest (at least the Camry's is padded), and lighted window switches (only the driver's window switch is illuminated). There may be others, like heated mirrors, that I haven't noticed. I did notice many features that were comparable to those on my Elantra, including an identical cruise control stalk, an almost identical overhead console with damped sunglasses holder, lots of monochrome plastic on the dashboard, non-lighted vanity mirrors (odd in a $20,000 car), solid-sounding doors, and adjustable rear seat head restraints. The Camry does have an outside temperature gauge (the usefulness of which escapes me), a larger trunk, a rear seat center arm rest, and a CD + cassette stereo. While the Camry is a very nice car, I personally would rather have my Elantra and the extra $8000.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    must have a tougher "build" to them to hold up to higher speeds better but like backy I wonder why Kia rates the Sephia series with the need for a tire that holds up to speeds of 135 mph. Don't get me wrong, I loved my Sephia, but I never got the feeling that I could get it going THAT MUCH over 100 mph. Notta. Never tried ,either, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have pushed it that high. I thought the 1.8L Kia motor was pretty strong really. Oh well, the only thing that might be worth considering is that perhaps one gets better tire quality with the Kia-suggested "h" tires. supreme-sounds like you made out all right anyway. The little Sephia's look great with aftermarket wheels on them. I found a package deal from a tire shop here in Washington state that gave me 4 new 70,000 mile Yokohama's and 4 new Konig Diva wheels for $461(that includes T&L). The Yokohama's led to great handling and the Konigs looked good on it. I still like the body design of the '98-'01 Kia Sephia's. I think the new Spectra series looks great, too. I may score one of those cars yet. supreme-are you digging your '00 Sephia so far?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • orcinmanorcinman Member Posts: 24
    45000 miles in my Elantra; no glitches and running like a dream.

    Just had to share. Even the paint still looks brand new on this 2-year old baby of mine.
  • supremesupreme Member Posts: 38
    03-03-2002
    After operating the 2000 Kia Sephia since April 2000 and putting on 40,000 miles including long haul trips from Green Bay to NYC and Green Bay to Ft Lauderdale I find that my vehicle has operated free of defects. I liked saving $1000 by purchasing the model without power steering & upgraded wheels, but I would have to think hard as to whether I would go without power steering again even on a little car. City parallel parking is a real chore. The body metal is paper thin, but I have been prudent about parking & avoiding dings & dents as much as I can. The white paint has held up very well and it still looks as good as a baby Benz. I think my needs are shifting to more of a mid-sized car, but it has delivered every cent of value for the $8600 (t&t incl). It has been a winner in my book. Supreme
  • lawman1967lawman1967 Member Posts: 314
    I have always owned low-end cars, until this last December when I bought a new midsize (Mitsubishi Galant 4 cylinder). For years I enjoyed driving my Corollas and Sentras and the like, test drove the new Civic, Sentra and Protege back in December (Elantra GT too, which I really liked), but there is a difference between compacts and mid sized cars, with pluses and minuses on both sides of the equation.

    Compacts are generally more fun to drive. My Sentra was loads more fun to throw around corners than my Galant is. They have an immediacy in response that can only come through light weight or extreme doses of money (the reason BMWs feel so good). They are fuel efficient, easy to park, and inexpensive to buy. The best of them are also smooth and quiet on nice roads. All of which are traits I value highly.

    Where the Mid size excels is first in size, which is just the laws of physics at work. The Protege is close, but is still a compact in the way it goes down the road (light weight has its advantages, but disadvantages too). Mid size cars, at least the good ones, havea certain solidity in their ride and control motions, that lighter cars lack. The steering wheel of my Galant still tells me what the tires are doing, but without the constant corrections and that indescribable "thinness" in feel.

    The Sentra was a quiet car (1997 GXE), but there is no comparison here, I can hear the softests passages in classical music without turning up the vollume, something I can't even do in my classmate's brad new, 5 day old Corolla. In the 2nd Movement of Beethoven's 7th, to hear the opening chello, meant that the vollume soon had to be dropped to avoid blasting our ears out, not so in the Galant, or my brother's Accord or my wife's Saturn L200, midsized cars all, and much quieter than the compacts.

    There is also the ride. The best compacts are excellent, better than they have any right to be, and more than up to long drives. However, when the road gets a bit rough, the differences come out. A great car will be comfortable on bad roads as well, and the difference between a compact and a mid size, is much like the difference between a mid size and a full-size. Mass doesn't like to change direction. THis is what makes small lightweight cars handle so well, and also what makes them jiggle on bad pavement. THe same weight that makes mid size cars clumsier in handling, makes them ride smoother.

    Well there is my $.02. I love compact cars, but until gas hits $4 a gallon or I move out of the big city (and away from the traffic), I won't go back to one any time soon.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    are comparably sized in interior dimension:
    with the Elantra being larger in rear headroom, front and rear hiproom and front shoulder room. The only two areas where the Mitsu does noticibly better are rear legroom (about 1.5 inches more) and trunk space. Most of the modern compacts such as the Focus and Elantra squeeze in a lot more room than they used to because of increased height.

    I drove a last gen. Sentra while my Elantra was getting hail damage fixed and the differences were noticible. Also looked at a last gen. Accord for my daughter and it seemed less roomy than the Elantra in many dimensions.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I agree with you about the Elantra. I find it to be a great car (I have the GT with ABS, TC, etc.) and more comfortable to sit in than others costing much more. However, I suspect that even though a Camry (even base) may cost several thousand more up front, the car will retain its resale value much better than the Elantra will and probably save you money on insurance too. As you noted, mpgs are about the same for the 4. It's the real cost of ownership that matters.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    I can't see how anyone can really prefer the Elantra to the Camry. The price may not be worth it to everybody, and the Elantra may be an excellent car for the price, but to say there is no difference seems kind of out there to me. Perhaps I just notice more details, but to the people who can't tell the difference -good for you, you won't be throwing wasted money into a product that doesn't last very long and loses it's value extremely quickly. My attention to detail in automobiles is my biggest weakness!
  • lawman1967lawman1967 Member Posts: 314
    Interior dimensions are only part of it, and while the Elantra may have almost as much room, it is still a compact car, albeit a very nice one. The Elantra rides like other nice compacts do, which is to say it handles better than most midsize sedans, but is more tiring on longer trips due to higher levels of NVH (noise, vibration and harshness). Compacts are getting better all the time, but of course, so are midsized cars. My Galant is an order of magnitude more refined than the very best compacts when it comes to NVH, while moving up to either a full-size(Avalon, etc), or a premium mid size (ES300, etc) is another quantum jump.

    I like the Elantra GT, a lot, however it is simply not in the same class, something that was very obvious in driving it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    >>> ...but is more tiring on longer trips due to higher levels of NVH (noise, vibration and harshness <<<

    Lawman, have you driven an Elantra, or Focus, or Lancer, or the new Corolla on a long trip? If you do I think you will find that none of them have high enough levels of NVH to make them tiring on long trips. They are not quite as quiet as, say, a Camry, but not far off. Throw in an exceptionally comfortable driver's seat (at least on the Elantra), and it's a fine highway cruiser. BTW, I noticed the Camry I drove last weekend had quite noticeable wind noise around the driver's side at 45-55 mph, whereas my Elantra has no wind noise until you get past 70-75 (which I rarely do). That wind noise can get tiring, especially on an otherwise quiet car.

    Re preferring the Elantra over the Camry: if they were both the same price, I'd take the Camry. For $8000 less, I'll take the Elantra. The Camry isn't $8000 better to me than the Elantra. Yes, the Camry will have higher resale value, based on percentages; but it starts out 67% more expensive, so you'll lose more money on the Camry than the Elantra. Example: say after 4 years the Elantra is worth 40% of original price and the Camry 60% (made-up numbers for illustration purposes); you've lost $7200 on the Elantra and $8000 on the Camry. I won't get into the "invest the difference" argument here, which makes the Elantra equation even better.
  • lawman1967lawman1967 Member Posts: 314
    There are many aspects of comfort. Noise is a big one, as are ride motions, straight-line tracking, etc.

    I have driven all of the cars you mentioned, including a two hour drive each way from in a rented Focus, and found all of them comparable to the 97 Sentra I owned, which is to say quiet, comfortable and very competent cars. There is no comparison to a midsize though.

    I recently drove a 2001 Camry from Seattle to Los Angeles (21 hours), and that car was infinitely more comfortable than the very best compacts would have been on that trip. While the Camry was nice, it wouldn't compare with the Crown Victoria I drove cross-country some years ago. A bigger car tends to ride smoother, and to require less input at the wheel when cruising on the highway.

    Mass and momentum work, and cannot be avoided. Just as light weight makes for nimble handling and response, higher weight makes for an enhanced tendancy to keep going in the direction a car is already going, be that in regard to straight ahead, or to not bounding up and down on rougher pavement. It takes more to change the motion of a heavier car, and that can be felt in a smoother ride, everything else being equal. In this case, everything else IS equal. Camrys, Galants, Accords and their ilk are every bit as sophisticated as their smaller bretheren, and simply provide a different driving experience based on their adherence to the laws of physics.

    I like the Elantra, but I am very glad that I moved up to a midsized car this time, I really do feel and hear the difference.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    2nd half of 2002: Daewoo Kalos. Here's a write-up taken from jkobty's link regarding Daewoo's foray into 6-cyl. engine's they're currently toiling on.


    http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_DAE/doc_dae01111221/article.html


    They'll sell this car in America me thinks.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I just got back from an afternoon at the Greater Minneapolis Auto Show, where in between looking for my 10-year-old son for three hours I looked at the latest low-end cars (and many others). In the low-end, I was most impressed by the new Corolla. All they had on display was one silver CE and one red S. The quality and roominess of the interior stood out, even in the low-end CE. I'd say the quality is just a notch below the more-expensive Golf/Jetta. The only deficiency in the interior was the non-adjustable driver's seat cushion, which is remedied in the LE. I really wanted to get a good look at the LE. I'm still warming to the styling, but it looked OK in silver, with a tasteful light grey interior. Oddly enough, I thought the Mazda 6 sedan on display looked a lot like a stretched Corolla, with a similar backlight and roofline. I can't wait to see the 6 wagon and hatchback.

    Back to the low-end cars, I checked out the Kias and was not impressed by the value of the Spectra compared to, say, the Elantra and even the Corolla. A well-equipped Spectra hatchback was $15,600, and for that you could get an even better equipped Elantra GT (a much better car IMO) or a Corolla S or LE 5-speed. Of the Kias, the Sedona was most impressive in quality and features for the money.

    Daewoo had two new models on display; neither had a name badge. I assume the large one was the Magnus. It was classy looking, except for the grille which I think is overdone. The smaller one I assume is the next-gen Nubira, but it was a 5-door configuration, tall-wagon style, with raised rear seats and a lot of interior room. It also had a feature I have never seen before in a car: airliner-like trays that fold up from the front seatbacks. They also folded back down with slight pressure, so I'm not sure how useful they are. Maybe there was a support I couldn't find.

    The Hyundai display featured the new Tiburon, which I think is a slick piece with an upscale leather interior--loaded with a V6 for $19,000. But they had only one of every other model, and NO Elantra GT! The XG350 was classy in black, but I sure wouldn't want to keep it clean.

    I checked out the Civic Si but was put off when the woman on the turntable announced the base price was $19,400. That's a lot for a Civic 3-door hatchback. They had a Civic hybrid, but not the new Pilot.

    I took a quick look at the Suzuki Aerio, they had only the 5-door. It reminded me of a 7/8th scale Civic wagon from the '88-'91 generation. A little stubby for my taste, but with lots of room and 141 hp, it could be a sleeper.

    I did only cursory looks at cars which which I am familiar, like ECHO, Focus, Lancer, and Protege.
    I did spend a lot of time checking out potential replacements for my '99 GCS when I turn it in in a couple of years. That's off topic, so I'll just say that I was most taken by the MPV LX (now with decent power), the CR-V LX, and the Passat wagon. But there'll be lots of other choices within 2 years, like the Pilot and redesigned Odyssey and Sienna, and maybe the Mazda 6 wagon.

    Tip of the Day: if you own a pair of those 2-way radios, like walkie-talkies with a 2-mile range, BRING THEM TO THE AUTO SHOW!!!!
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I went to the Minneapolis auto show also on Saturday. It makes me feel good that I walked out of there knowing that there wasn't anything in the lower price class that I would want instead of the Protege that I bought last year. The new Civic Si looks like a pokemon cartoon. The Sentra SE-R is nice except for the absolutely NASTY interior. What's the deal with Nissan interiors lately? The new Corolla's interior is excellent on the S model but those ground effects look like they came from Pep Boys. All in all, If I was buying a car again I'd still be getting the Protege ES.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, it's something how well the nearly four-year-old Protege design has held up against the competition. Makes you wonder what Mazda will come up with for 2004. With the more powerful MPV and the new 6, Mazda should do well in the coming year.

    I felt the same way you did, about my car, the '01 Elantra GLS. I still don't see anything that can top it for the money ($11k in these parts). The Corolla may be a better car, but a lot more bucks. The Sentra is a joke, IMO--a recent 4-door redesign without a practical rear seat and a lousy shifter. Even my '97 Sentra had a decent shifter, and a roomier back seat than the current generation. It's not the looks of the Si that get me, because I had a '85 Civic S that had somewhat the same shape. It's paying an Acura-level price for it that stops me cold. Shoot, a Mercedes hatchback lists for $25k, and the new BMW 1-series will start at around $22k. The value proposition for the Si escapes me. Drop it down to about $16k, and then it becomes interesting.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    The Civic Si's price is right in line with the Focus SVT and Sentra SE-R so I don't think it is TOO expensive. It just looks too cute to be taken seriously.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Civic Si, at $19,400 list (according to the presenter at the auto show), is $1400 more than the SVT and nearly $3000 more than the SE-R. It's also $5000 more, list price again, than the better-equipped Elantra GT, which is nearly as fast as the Si (8.0 vs. 7.6, 0-60). Still seems to me like a big premium to pay for the Honda nameplate.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    "It's also $5000 more, list price again, than the better-equipped Elantra GT, which is nearly as fast as the Si (8.0 vs. 7.6, 0-60). Still seems to me like a big premium to pay for the Honda nameplate.

    Geez, I don't think the Elantra GT will steal sales from the new Civic Si. I really feel the Si is a true niche vehicle. There is a Honda nameplate Si "*mod" boy following. *Sorry, can't use the starch name here, my post will get zapped. Backy, this is no slam on the very fine Elantra GT. I'm sure this nice little pocket rocket has developed it's own following with folks willing to purchase Korean vehicles. Nonetheless, the "Fast and Furious" crowd will prolly put in some extra over-time at work, to afford the Honda Si, in their world the "real deal".

    -Larry
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Check out the Elantra GT forum, and you'll see that the GT is already stealing sales from the likes of the Acura RSX, close in price and performance to the Civic Si. So maybe the GT will steal sales from the Si (just not from the "Fast and Furious" crowd I suppose). I for one would look very closely at the GT (and Tiburon) if I were in the market for a sporty compact right now. But you're probably right about the Si being a niche vehicle--how many people will pay nearly $20k for a weirdly-shaped hatchback that is out-performed by less costly cars?
  • browntrout1browntrout1 Member Posts: 72
    I don't think I would ever buy this car but I still think it's a pretty good car. For one, staight line performance is not always what makes a car a good buy. From the reviews I've read, the new Si is a very compotent handler. It also has more torque than the previous Si so the drivability is a little better (even though the car is slower over all). You don't half to beat this car to an inch of its life to get decent acceleration.

    The MP3 is the slowest car in the pocket rocket segment but it still gets rave reviews becuase of it's handling. If you ask me, handling is much harder to perfect than getting speed out of a car. And for alot of people, upgradablity is a major factor. I think it is safe to say that the Civic Si will have more aftermarket support than a Mazda or a Hyundai.

    Personally, I like the price and content of the Focus SVT. But reliablity is a concern and I hate the seating position. I tested a focus ZX3 before I got my protege and it felt really wierd being so high up.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    Many, many people (a high percentage of auto sales) buy cars without a care in the world about how a car handles or how fast it goes, they just want a cute car with the options, and if they can save a ton of money buying an Elantra over an RSX then all the better. You will usually not see these people at discussion forums like this because they don't really care that much. I think I'd even go as far as presuming, possibly incorrectly, that the majority of these buyers are women.
    The "fast and the furious" crowd is a small percentage of these sales, which would explain Honda's gradual transformation of the Civic from a sporty compact to a family compact. Pluse, the Furious crowd cares less how a car handles out of the box, and more how well it takes to modification. Which is the main reason why Honda continues to be an attraction for them.
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    Honda Changed the suspension setup on the new civic and that's partly why your seeing more interest in other cars like the Protege for tuning. Personally I don't see what was wrong with previous generations of Civics. People still bought them like mad even though they were perceived as "sporty". Even the people that just wanted basic transport bought them. Why change the formula?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    >>> I think I'd even go as far as presuming, possibly incorrectly, that the majority of these buyers are women. <<<

    Based on my following of the Elantra forums on Edmunds.com for nearly two years (the GT forum since its inception), I'd say you are right--about being incorrect. The majority of posters on those forums are men (of those who identify their gender). And from what I can tell, lots of those people (including me) care about their cars. Just because we paid less for our cars doesn't mean we can't care about them. The GT crew seems almost as fanatical as the Protege gang--yes, hard to believe I know, but check out the Elantra GT forum and see what I mean.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    You missed what I meant. I would figure most of the drivers at this forum are men... only men can care so much about a car!
    I'm saying that for every person in these forums, there are thousands who aren't. It's those thousands I was referring to. These Hyundai's deserve the recognition and following, and it is incredible what you can get for this kind of price these days, but there is still a difference between them and the higher priced competitors- that cannot be denied. Well, I guess it can be denied, but that doesn't make it so.
    A guy here at work has the Hyundai LS (the big one, I think that's the model) and it is a remarkable car, smooth quiet, comfortable, and full of options. Is it the same as a Lexus? Absolutely not, but much, much better value.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    The Civic was followed by the Dodge Intrepid, Pontiac Grand Am, Dodge Neon and Ford Focus.

    -Car& Driver


    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/march/20020314_dai_honda.xml

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    >>> ...but there is still a difference between them and the higher priced competitors... <<<

    I agree, especially in interior quality (Corolla, Golf/Jetta) and predicted reliability for some models (Corolla, Protege, Sentra, etc.). You <i>should get more for the extra money. But the difference is not as great as many people think, or what the price difference would imply, IMO. Also in the opinion of mags like Car and Driver, which called the XG350 "Lexus-like", and Consumer Reports, which rated the Elantra on a par with the best compacts (and will recommend it as soon as the predicted reliability of the current generation can get to at least average, which the '00 model has achieved already).

    As for "only men can care so much about a car"... I know many female posters in these forums who would disagree with you--they seem mighty passionate about their cars. Any women out there care to comment on that?
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Anyone know the percentage of men and women registered on the board?

    Either way, while obviously freddy_k didn't mean 100% of fanatics are men, I'm sure it's 90% or above.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    In a Wednesday announcement from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the 2002 Kia Sedona minivan was awarded the bottom rating -- "poor" -- and came in last among minivans for rear bumper damage at 5 mph. More than $4,000 damage! The news clip I saw on TV called it the "worst minivan ever" in the rear-bumper test.

    Check it out here:

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/ts_nm/autos_bumpers_dc_1016032252&cid=578

    I guess it does prove that you get what you pay for.

    In another segment, the Subaru Impreza scored near the bottom of its segment with only a "marginal" rating.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The high repair cost was due to the airbags going off vs. structural issues. Kia is checking into that; they should not have deployed on a bumper test. However, the Sedona did score extremely high on the NHTSA crash tests.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    "What this translates to in real life is an extremely smooth engine with a wide power band and none of the power spikes found in other VTEC engines. This engine just pulls and pulls. At the same time its efficient, giving the Si expected overall fuel economy of 28 mpg."

    by Car & Driver


    http://www.roadandtrack.com/RoadAndTrack/first_drives/1201_honda_civic_si.html

  • yeppyepp Member Posts: 5
    Just because it made more then 4000 dollars in damage, it can't be considered the Worst Minivan Ever.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    But it can be considered the worst performer ever in that area of safety.
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    I don't see how a fender bender translates into vehicle safety. It's only 5 MPH!!! I don't think the passengers in the vehicle could possibly be harmed in that type of crash. In fact, the Sedona scored double 5-star front and side impact ratings on NHTSA. I don't think the IIHS offset tests are out yet, but if the Sedona does well on them, Kia may have a winner on their hands.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/march/20020314_dai_kia.xml

    "In all, the Sedona ran up a total of $9,000 in damage in four such tests. In one of them, the Sedona's air bags went off when it was crashed into a flat barrier at five miles per hour. Both driver and passenger side air bags deployed, and the passenger side air bag cracked the front windshield. The total cost of repair was $4,305."

    "....but if the Sedona does well on them, Kia may have a winner on their hands." NOT!!!! I could never lay down my hard earned money on such crappy vehicle?

    -Larry
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    "But Corollas have stiff competition in the small-car segment these days, and some of the opposition&#8212;notably the Korean entries&#8212;are much better equipped at comparable prices and offer highly competitive warranties to offset the Corolla's famous reliability."

    CAR & DRIVER


    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/2002/february/200202_preview_corolla.xml?Manufacturer=Toyota&Name=Corolla&class=43

  • browntrout1browntrout1 Member Posts: 72
    ...really doesn't work for this car. It makes the car look more echolike (taller) and from the front, it looks tacky. I don't say this becuase I hate body kits. I actually like tastfully done body kits, nothing to curvy,swoopy, or rounded.

    I did see a new Corolla in person last week (LE I think) without the body kit and the car look decent. Nothing ground breaking. This is definatly a car for the masses.
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    Corolla:

    To be honest I sat the in the Corolla this weekend and I really wasn't that impressed. Everybody is talking "Lexus Like" and I just wasn't that impressed with the interior. It's VERY plain with no interesting points to it at all. Matter of fact I was thinking german 80's cars. Boring and flat. The switch gear felt ok but I didn't think it was anything phenomenal by any means. It may drive totally different but the interior gave me that "budget" feeling. I am biased being a P5 owner but I do think the dash on the P5 is a lot more interesting.


    Daewoo:

    Has anyone seen that Daewoo with the rotating front seats? Man that is just odd. I can't imaging parking myself in that little car and fighting for foot space just to have a conversation. Now if that were able to figure out how to make the seatbelts work in that position THAT would be cool.


    Suzuki:

    Not incredibly impressed with the Aerio (sp). Seems like a nice enought car and it had plenty of room for "stuff" but the dash was kinda strange. Many budget cars this year seem like they are putting the running gear in the middle of the dash so that they can switch markets really easily. Suzuki made the dash exactly the same on both sides and they used a digital dash that they could flop back and forth in a little slot on each side


    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/suzuki/aerio/sx4drwagon20l4cyl5m/photo_3.html

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/suzuki/aerio/sx4drwagon20l4cyl5m/photo_3.html


    Honda:

    The Civic interior is boring. However the seats they put in there are phenomenal! Monster side bolster feel like you could be in a jet fighter. The shifter even though in the dash feels great (as usual though no shift knob). I still think it looks like a door stop though.


    Subaru:

    WRX. Ugly. But who CARES! If I had more money AFter driving one last year and sitting in it this weekend I would still buy one in a heartbeat.


    KIA:

    The Spectra isn't too bad but for a larger guy like myself they really have to add tilt steering that goes a little higher. With the seat cranked down as low as it would go and the steering wheel as high as it would go I still had to wedge myself between the two. The seats are just a little too soft for my liking.


    The conversion van section is very scary. They had an Aztek that had hood scoops (why?) and a jacked up 4x4 conversion van with a 21" TV.


    That's all I can remember on a monday morning.


    Shrique

  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    The P5 interior is more interesting beause they painted the trim with silver, otherwise there really isn't anything that special about it. The way Protege fans go on, you'd think they used real aluminum.
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    Theres something to be said about that but there is still the fact that it LOOKS more interesting. Plus there are some contouring around the radio etc that bring out VISUAL interest. Adding a little bit of color and contouring goes a long way towards making a dash appealing to the eye. Oh and I suppose it makes a difference that they used FAKE (oh no!) carbon fiber on the dash as well on the P5.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    Don't worry, I agree with you, but while I was looking at these cars I found that the Protege fans claimed a higher quality intererior, fooled by the more interesting, as you put it, design and not realizing that the actual quality is the same. I do commend them for adding that little something to the car, fake or not.
    I was told before I looked that the Impreza (my final choice) that it had an inferior interior to the Protege, but it turned out that the quality was a least equal once you looked past the bleak, uninterrupted blackness of it. I'll assume they put more effort into the WRX though.
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    owning one for a while The one thing that is going to bother me about the P5 is the fact that they brought the fake suede-like fabric up onto the sill of the window. I've started to notice that my left arm is starting to matt down the fabric. I have a feeling that it's not going to look too good after a while. As far as quality of materials goes I think your right in saying that the Civic, Protege, Corolla & Impreza all seem to share about the same quality of materials. The Protege spends a bit more time on style than the rest. This all refers to the center console. All the gauge clusters of these cars are pretty blah but easy to read.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Just wondering if the Corolla you saw with the boring interior was the LE with the woodgrain or another model? I saw the S with all-black interior and THAT was boring to me (but I don't like black interiors anyway).
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    I looked at both of them. Personally I'm not a fan of wood-grain trim in cars. I would rather see tastfully used material like metal and different textures of vinyl, plastic etc. Maybe even toss in some colors. Your right maybe the S affected my feeling about the interior. That car was very very plain.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    My DX has a silver strip running along the bottom of the windows. I wonder if this is painted or real metal? It looks pretty real to me.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    They probably still used real metal in Corollas back in '96, before the de-contenting craze hit all the automakers.

    BTW... I saw a Lexus ad for the LS430 today and it struck me how similar the front/side profile looked like the '02 Corolla, but much beefier of course. I wonder if there was a conscious effort on Toyota's part for the new Corolla to resemble the Lexus.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Check out Edmunds.com's first drive of the Suzuki Aerio, link on the home page. They were pretty impressed. My question is, why spend $15k for an Aerio when you can get a Corolla LE or S, or a loaded Elantra GT for the same money?

    There's also a big buzz about the newly-unveiled Saturn Ion, the replacement for the S-Series. Check out the Saturn Ion board if you want to see pics and commentary. The exterior styling is interesting, especially the 4-door coupe; the engine is the 2.2L 137 hp Ecotech; and the interior is... well, think of the ECHO on growth hormones. At least it has full gauges.
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Member Posts: 376
    At lower prices you usually have a choice. GM makes cars at these prices with all sorts of gizmos, gadgets and blinking lights, at the expense of a decent car. On the other extreme why would someone pay more then this for a car that comes with no options? because it's the drive they are looking for.
    I just chose the bottom end Imprezza over the top end of many cars that come with way more features becuase it drove nicer, handled better, and had a more comfortable (hey, I never said nicer) interior then any of them. Looking past the outward appearance took some guts though!

    As for the Saturn, I expect the new Saturn should drive just as, um... zzzzzzzzz.... snore.... -what's that, I must have been driving a Saturn ;-)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    to the article backy mentions: First Drive: 2002 Suzuki Aerio.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
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