Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
"The new platform for Focus and Protege will come from Europe, which begs the question: with Japanese powertrains, European design, and American components being built in large part in Mexico (at least for Focus), what on earth is the nationality of the next Focus and protege?"
The next Protege is still supposed to be built in Japan which would mean that they are most likely still going to be using Japanese suppliers. European design is nothing new to the Protege. The current generation Protege was designed in Germany, Japan, and California. You can see the German influence in the exterior design and the handling behavior.
I think that sums it up nicely. With all the cross-breeding in the auto industry, who knows what the origin of a car is nowdays. For some cars, like the Aerio, Elantra, and Rio, it's still pretty clear what their heritage is, but it's getting murky for others e.g. the Focus and Protege.
Anyways, Mazda is it's own entity enough to differentiate it from Ford. Any product that has been more Mazda than Ford always does alot better (quality wise). I think that the Focus and Protege being on the same Platform (along with the small Volvo sedan) in the future may be a very good thing. The focus platform is an excellent design, it's just the stuff attached to it (engine, transmission, brakes, etc) are not attached so well. Basically it's a quality control thing. For me, as long as the drivetrain is out of Japan, then these cars will be tough to beat.
Well said. Focus platform is an excellent platform and it is rally proven, they came ahead of Subaru this year in the WRC. The 2.3L I4 that Mazda is putting out (in the Mazda6)is the first of the 4 cylinder engines that Mazda is making for FoMoCo as a whole. When the 2004 Focus/Protege comes out I am sure a 2.0L I4 designed by Mazda will be in the engine compartment. Has anyone heard any details on either vehicle?
1. Lexus
2. Toyota
3. Saturn
4. BMW
(tie) 5. Honda
(tie) 5. Hyundai
7. Acura
8. Volvo
9. Mitsubishi
10. Kia
Interesting that Honda placed higher than its premium cousin Acura. Toyota's and Honda's programs to improve dealer satisfaction over the past year must be working. Also the rankings of the two Korean makes is noteworthy.
I am most surprised to see Saturn at third - are they slipping? If I am not mistaken (and you know, sometimes I am!!), they are usually number one...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even VUE only sells well because you could make anything in a mini-ute right now and it would sell like hotcakes. I test-drove and compared it to its competition, and it came out.......totally average, what a surprise! It did not excel in one single category among all the ones I could think of.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
J.D. Power studies are commissioned by the manufacturers. The consumer sees basic results in the press release. Only the manufacturers see the numbers for below average ratings and other details.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
by iluvmysephia1
LOL!!! ;-0
-larry
I finally got a firsthand look at the Ion sedan, got to walk around it, sit in it, really get into it.
I will be surprised if they can sell any of these at all. Ugly doesn't begin to describe it - funny slanted rear end, way too small wheels, etc - but that is subjective.
It is also plasticky, insubstantial, uncomfortable, and gets way worse gas mileage than comparable models, all for a price which is not competitive if you figure in the fact that Saturn retailing is one-price-only.
It is time for Saturn to call it quits. They never were really allowed to make a go of it. The Koreans are all over this segment now, with cars that feel better and are way more inexpensive. The Ion just loses out on every count.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At least it still has the rustproof plastic panels. I think that's why I see so many Saturns where I live, in Minnesota.
- nippononly
Nip, in all honesty, do you think G.M. even has the "Know How" to make a top box compact car? Personally, I don't think they care to produce that type vehicle. Except for the obvious need to comply with CAFE.
GM has enormous resources - I think if it wanted to make a really good compact car, it probably could. But these cars are money-losers in GM's mind, and they will never devote significant resources to this segment.
Even in the new "car focus" Gm has now, it is all about big cars, like "Malibu MAXX"
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Did you mean to say every <i>good GM compact car has come from somewhere else? GM has developed several of their own compact cars, e.g. the Corvair, the Vega and its offspring, the Citation and its relatives, and the Cavalier/Sunfire to name a few. I know it's also developed many compacts for overseas markets. In fact, some of these, such as the Vectras and Opels, are pretty good cars. Proving your statement that GM could develop a good compact car if they wanted to. Why they can't develop a good compact car for the U.S. market is another question. Sure they lose money, but every other car maker that sells a full line of cars realizes that they need the low-end cars to grab buyers when they are young and then offer them increasingly bigger and more expensive cars/trucks/SUVs as they grow older, richer, and have families. Saturn finally realized they needed other models to move their customers up to from the S cars, but it took them too long to offer a bigger car and a SUV, and when they did, they were not worth the wait.
-Backy
I would also think the current CAFE laws, Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency (CAFE), would be a huge incentive for all manufactures to build a very good small car?
-larry
To stay on-topic, my wife's 01 Elantra has had 21K trouble-free miles so far. Average mileage in mostly city driving is about 29.
by fushigi
John, I owned a 91 Ford Escort(rebadged Mazda) for 9 years. 105,000 miles on the ody when I sold it to a local kid for $1800. I stupidly spent at least 2 grand on repairs and maintaince on it, the last couple of years I owned it. However, it really was a decent hatch back econo car for my family. Loaded the Christmas tree in it every year for almost a decade. :-) Must say that little car was well worth the $13,500 we paid for it. I just can't think of another car sold by the big three, worth my hard earned $$$, right now?
-Larry
You got that right. The only one that comes close for me is the Focus but all those recalls scare me off. Maybe the 2nd gen. after Mazda does the design work.
1. Focus
2. Neon
3. Saturn
157. Cavfire
If the Focus looked a little better and didn't have the recall problem, I would have considered it. IMO, they drive very well. Excellent ride and excellent handling--relatively. The design is right, the execution is wrong, at least here in NA. GM has never offered anything but horsecrap in the small car segment, and they wonder why they continually lose marketshare. People say that Saturns were good, but they have a serious oil consumption problem. I worked at different oil change joints for 7 years during high school and college and there is NO other car out there that burns oil like a Saturn with a 1.9L. Jetta 2.0Ls are close, but not all of them burn oil. The problem persisted for so many different model years that I would never consider one, even if Saturn has fixed the oil consumption issues. IMO, that kind of widespread problem is absolutely inexcusable in any modern gasoline engine car. The Geos were good, but only because they weren't really GM vehicles.
-larry
"On the road, our feelings for the Ion improve slightly. The good news is that the global Delta platform making its debut here seems quite capable. The basic body structure is exceptionally rigid. A wide track and the grippy 205/55HR-16 Firestones, standard on our Ion 3 (base Ion 1s and midlevel Ion 2s make do with smaller rubber), provide admirable roadholding (0.81 g) and lend a stable, secure feeling at the limit. That grip is 0.02 g better than the best-in-test Ford Focus SE's in our recent 10-car econobox comparo ("Double-Dip Dreamboats," November). Braking is similarly impressive at 183 feet from 70 mph, 12 feet shorter than our test-winning Mazda Protegé LX could manage. Bumps and potholes are traversed — even in curves — quietly and with greater aplomb than one would expect from such a proletarian suspension as this strut and trailing twist-beam setup. The chassis hardware engineers all deserve a raise."
I suggest some people who know a lot about cars disagree with your position that the ION is defeated in every way. It is telling that you give your position without ever having driven the car.
Driving is why most people buy cars by the way.
Ish.
The chassis makes up more than half of a modern automobile's engineering. My point is that it is more than a little exageration to say a car with the better chassis for its class -- and better braking and skid-pad -- is defeated in every way.
Unless, of course, the only criteria in buying a car in this class is how buttons feel. Think about it. Would you say a Jaguar XK8 defeats a 911 in every way because its interior is snazzier?
T'was the night before Christmas, and all through the 'Hall
few members were posting--were they still at the mall?
The driveway was plowed with the greatest of care
in hopes that new wheels may soon be parked there.
The drivers were nestled all snug in their beds
while visions of low-end cars danced in their heads.
My sweetie in her driving gloves, and I in my cap,
had just settled down for a long winter's nap.
When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the mini-blinds and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below,
When, what with my eyes should I see 'neath the stars,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight low-end cars!
With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than eagles his small cars they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;
"Now, CIVIC! now, LANCER! now, ECHO and ION!
On, ACCENT! on SENTRA! on, SUNFIRE and NEON!
To the front of the house! zoom right up to the wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"
As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky,
So on to my driveway the vehicles they flew,
With the sleigh full of cars, and St. Nicholas too.
And then, I could hear from a distance not far,
The revving and humming of each little car.
As I drew in my hand, and was turning around,
Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound.
He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
A bundle of keys he held at his side,
And he looked like a dealer, ready for a test-ride.
His eyes -- how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;
The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the stockings; then turned with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose;
He sprang to his sleigh, to his cars gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
But I saw out my window, as he drove out of sight,
A new low-end car on my drive--IT WAS MY LUCKY NIGHT!
Merry Christmas!
:-)
BTW, nice job with the poem. I hope you are enjoying the Holidays, my friend!
:-)
Larry
BTW, saw an ad in the local Austin paper today for new 2002 Pro LXes for $10,995, ESes for $11,895. The small print says that they've taken the alloys off both, but still a great price. The next few days will be a great time to buy a car.
Oh, and I would like to know what makes Logic think that driving is what makes people buy the cars they do...I know that logically it shoudl work that way, but the depressing reality is that at least 80% of the car buyers in America just buy a car to be A-to-B transportation, and of those a good 50% or more buy based on looks.
But I was also mentioning the content of the Ion at its price point, which I feel does not measure up. The way it drives is one component of several to consider when buying a new car.
I still want to check out that electric steering...can it be as bad as all the reviewers say?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-larry
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick