Low End Sedans (under $16k)

backy · August 2004

Which car(s) do you like driving best? Which meet your other requirements (e.g. if rear seat room is important, the Sentra is poor there compared to the others). Is reliability important to you? The Sentra is worst in this group, then Focus, then Elantra, then Civic (best). The rebate shouldn't be the main factor--price and TCO should be more important. The Elantra (and Spectra) start with a lower price so even with a lesser rebate, they can cost less than a Focus. They have a superior warranty also. The Civic is a nice car, but you will pay extra for Honda's quality reputation. If you plan on keeping the car only 2-4 years, the Civic may be the best bet because of its high resale value.

explorerx4 · August 2004

have a focus with about 4k miles on it. handles well and has enough head room for me(over 6ft).
think it's a great deal. 100k powertrain warrantee. it has pwr moon roof-windows-(auto)locks, heated seats and mirrors, abs, 2.3 pzev, a/c, rear defroster, cruise, alloys, blaupunkt cd/mp3 stereo, intermittent wipers, perimeter alarm system. a tick over 13k plus TTL. getting about 30 mpg(5 speed), mostly trips under 15 miles.

sawyerml · September 2004

Greetings,

I am currently looking to buy an 2005 ECHO or XA- but I am torn! I am looking for owners' pearls of wisdom, likes, dislikes, pleasant surprises and disappointments with both cars. I just read a set of posts (made in 2003) comparing the XA tot he ECHO, but I would like to start a more current discussion. Anything you can comment on is greatly appreciated.

The ECHO seems sensible, good for zipping around town, and has great cargo room (I am a teacher). The XA appeals to my 25 y/o sense of "stylishness" (the whole Gen. Y thing, I suppose) and safety (ABS and airbags)- it is also less expensive (for the features I am looking for- the XA's standards are just about all I want on the car).

All that said, my practical side still tugs me toward the ECHO. Can you help? ECHO owners: what has your experience been driving the ECHO. Has anyone made any 400+ mile trips in either (I like to take impromptu, "travel-light" road trips). XA owners: do you find you have enough cargo room and passenger room? What has the resale experiences been like. I do a lot of reeway driving- any comments on how the cars react at high speeds (power, stopping, acceleration, annoying noises, etc.)

Thanks so much for your help!

kkoan · September 2004

Hello

I am trying to see what would be the best bet in buying a sedan. My cieling is $14500, can't go past that. Basically I am a first-time buyer and I want to make the smartest decision possible. Do I go for the reliability of Honda/Toyota or the value of Hyundai/Kia? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Now, here are my deal options (all auto tranny):

1) '05 Toyota Corolla CE out the door - $13,5k -like the deal because reliable car plus 3 yr bumper/5 year powertrain warranty

2) '04 Honda Civic VP out the door - $14,4k - reliable and great mpg but only 3yr bumper warranty, no powertrain

3)'04 Kia Spectra - $10,5k out the door - cheap price, great warranty but I've heard it makes too much noise and warranty service is suspect. Plus really bad depreciation rate. Still good value though

4) '04 Hyundai Elantra $11k out the door - again cheap price but bad depreciation rate, not as reliable as Honda or Toyota?

...thoughts?

backy · September 2004

You didn't mention which car(s) you like driving best. If it's all about price, warranty, mpg, and reliability, why not buy a 1-2 year old Civic or Corolla with the Honda or Toyota Certified Used Car warranty (which can actually be longer than the new-car warranties)?

Some questions for you:

* How long are you going to keep the car? If it's less than five years, the Corolla and Civic can make more sense because of better resale value. Beyond five years, the difference is less plus that's where the benefit of the 10-year warranties on the Spectra and Elantra will kick in.

* How do you like the driving position of the Corolla? Have you taken it for a LONG test drive? Many drivers (including me) find the driving position uncomfortable. If it's OK for you, that makes the Corolla a really good bet IMO because it's less than the Civic but has great reliability, resale, and fuel economy.

* Is this the "all new" Spectra or the older design? If it's the older design, DON'T GO THERE! But the all-new Spectra is a very nice car. You mention reports of noise. What did you think when you drove it? I didn't find it to be any noisier than any other car in its class.

As for reliability, the Elantra actually has the same rating in Consumer Reports as the Civic: Above Average. The new Spectra's reliability is unknown, but it uses the same platform and engine as the Elantra.

Personally I own two Elantras because they met my criteria best. But I plan on keeping both of them in the family for over 10 years, so depreciation is not a concern for me. Plus Honda offers nothing like my '04 GT 5-door, and the Matrix was $4000 more, with less equipment. When I bought my first Elantra four years ago, I thought it was a superior car compared to the Corolla and Civic of that time, plus thousands less out of my wallet.

kkoan · September 2004

Backy,

Thanks for the reply. You know to be honest, I'm not really that picky when it comes to the actual drive comfort. I mean, I'm 6'3 so I'm probably going to be uncomfortable anyways.

I don't plan on having this car for more than five years so I think maybe the Civic or Corolla is the way to go. What's most important to me is reliability and fuel economy. I just don't know too much about reliability (or lack thereof) with Hyundai and Kia. Yes I know they've both improved over the years but I still hear/read some horror stories (especially about Kia having horrible roadside assistance and warranty maintenance service). If more knowledgeable people think that there's nothing to worry about with an Elantra or Spectra, then I'd consider it...

csandste · September 2004

There are 04 Spectras AND 04 Spectras. Kia made their new platform and 04 in order to keep their EPA figures up for the year. Don't buy the old car unless you pay next to nothing for it. I have an 01 Elantra which has given me 70+K miles of trouble free service. If I was buying this fall I'd look carefully at the Spectra5 which is a lot more attractive IMHO than the sedan. Where is that car anyway? Thought it would be introduced by now.

ferml · September 2004

I love our little '98 Sentra. Cosmetically, it's been through the wringer: been rear ended about 3 or 4 times, skidded-off the road, rear ended someone else (I must note that I've only been in the car for 1 of these little adventures). The interior is VERY comfortable but not too durable. The stereo light died in the first year, the gear shift indicator broke the third time we cleaned it...

BUT BUT BUT ---> the A/C has blown COLD for almost 7 years (very improtant in Texas), it's got 115K miles and NEVER any engine/tranny trouble. My only complaint is that it makes all kinds of goofy chirping noises that no mechanic can seem to diagnose... also, it's pretty quiet on the inside.

I'm thinking of buying another one to tool around town in... looking for a big van for our band and I don't want to drive it to work.

mdrew · September 2004

Last year I drove my 2000 ECHO automatic from San Francisco to Chicago and back [via Portland], over 5k and it ran great, kept up easily with any traffic, was comfortable and had great visibility due to the high seating for a small car. If there's any drawback it's the light weight with high narrow shape making it susceptible to wind gusts, but nothing too serious. I've also had some 1,500 mile trips on the West Coast, through Death Valley, etc. with no problems; for that matter I've never had a problem...you've probably read similar accounts on the ECHO board. The interior room and trunk are great for a car that size; I'm probably one of the few people who thinks it looks cool also. First time I saw it I wanted one. Don't know much about the Scion...

explorerx4 · September 2004

why no focus on the list? it's the best driver, and it has a lot of headroom; i used to be 6'2", but i think i'm shinking(the age thing). drove a loaner with the sport package, seats seemed to have more lumbar support, but they didn't look any different the my zts sedan.

backy · September 2004

With reliability and fuel economy your top criteria, I'd seriously check out a used '03 Corolla if I were you--one with the Toyota Certified warranty if you want a long warranty. The Elantra has a good reliability history since its redesign for '01, but IMO you would be better off with a Corolla or Civic because if anything went wrong with the Elantra, you'd probably think "I should have bought a Toyota or Honda." Also the Corolla has better fuel economy than the Elantra. But first, be sure you take a long test drive in the car you intend to buy. One of the reasons I got my Elantras was their very comfortable driving position, and the 8-way adjustable driver's seat (very rare in this class).

csandste · September 2004

about the Elantra being the most comfortable car in this class. Absolutely superb.

majorthomecho · September 2004

Either one would be a great car, but I like the Echo over the Xa. One of the reasons being that I felt the rearward visibility (when looking at the rearview mirror) was better.

And due to the heavier weight of the Xa, acceleration is better in the Echo. Handling should be better in the Xa with the additional suspension components.

Fuel economy will be better with the Echo.

I took my Echo in when looking at a 2004 Dodge Neon SRT-4 and the dealer had the comment that it was good that I was driving a Toyota as the resale value was pretty good. I didn't do the deal as I really wanted to wait for an '05, the car was the wrong color, and it had a sunroof.

Sorry about the digression. You asked about long trips. Well, I have gone to St. Louis (about a 300 mile trip) in my 2001 Toyota Echo with manual and gone to Minneapolis (over 400 miles, I believe) in my jointly owned 2003 Toyota Echo with automatic transmisson. Both handled nicely, kept up with traffic, and returned superb mileage even with some times spent at triple digits.

majorthomecho · September 2004

I really enjoyed my time on this board and reading your posts on low end sedan even though most of your posts were all wet (j/k), but I find my time here drawing to an end.

I have found a new passion that may lead to a second career and I find myself spending virtually all my free time studying, working at my new passion, or watching film of people I might encounter in my new passion.

What is my new passion? Well take one word meaning the subject of this website, add a letter, and you will have the word denoting my new passion in general.

backy · September 2004

majorthomecho · September 2004

Where did I say change a letter? I said add a letter, but if I did start a carp farm I could stock it with all the carp-ing from here. ; 0

backy · September 2004

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

majorthomecho · September 2004

The word I was thinking of when I made that post was cars. Now you can figure out my new passion.

Like Jim Rome, I'm out.

pat · September 2004

You are becoming a card shark? You are taking on a new position as a blackjack dealer in Las Vegas or some other gambing capital?

majorthomecho · September 2004

My new passion is poker, specifically Texas Hold 'Em. Not moving away from where I am now, but if I am not online playing poker during my non-work hours, I am playing offline in a casino or a free tournament.

pat · September 2004

Well, enjoy and good luck - hope you'll still stop by from time to time.

alpha01 · September 2004

What an incredible hoot! And definitely left me really liking the Corolla. The car really isnt nearly as unagile as the press would make it sound, I felt very comfortable scooting around the cones as fast as I could, the car was very controllable, and I never felt the chassis was nervous. Certainly, the default is understeer, but the car felt peppy and overall, the steering felt responsive, much better than in my Sentra 2.5LE or the Elantras I drove, both of which suffer from rubbery feel, the Sentra's artificially weighted as well.

The S models that were available had very attractive interiors with high quality materials, though I could easily live without the white-face guages, which pale in comparison to the electroluminescent displays of the LE and XRS models (not available for playing).

I definitely understand how some people might not find the driving position to their liking. But for me, the car fits very well. Toyota needs to get over itself and just offer a telescopic wheel on the vehicle, at least standard on S, LE, and XRS models.

Overall, the Mazda 3 is the best overall package, but the Corolla is a great pick for more conservative buyers looking for ride comfort over handling. IMO, those two cars, and the Elantra for its incredible features/value equation, round out the best choices in the class.

~alpha

alpha01 · September 2004

Somewhat of a surprise: the next-gen Sentra wont be available until what appears to be calendar year 2006: (taken from www.nissannews.com)

"The Nissan Sentra will continue to be Nissans core entry in the compact passenger car market in North America. It will be re-engineered to meet consumer demands for a stylish, economical and performance-oriented small car. The next generation of the all-new Nissan Sentra will be introduced in 2006."

Thats a bit too long for this model. By that time, the car is/will be seriously lacking in rear-seat room, refinement, interior convenience, and fuel efficiency. Its a good little car for the money, and I love my 2.5LE, but without the option of that model (or the 2.5S) I would have probably by-passed the Nissan dealership.

~alpha

backy · September 2004

I've seen rumors to the effect that the next-gen Sentra will be on a Renault-sourced platform. Any news on that score?

buckeye5 · October 2004

I have a 2000 Ford Focus with the same problem. The tires have been rotated, replaced, and balanced resulting in a temporary, slight reduction in the shimmy but it returns after a few days of driving. The entire car shimmys, you can feel it in the seat, steering wheel, and floor. The faster you go, the worse it gets. Anybody have the same experience with the Ford Focus?

csandste · October 2004

by a sheriff's deputy's wife. Luckily she was honest and reported it (I was out of the car), or I might have driven away in ignorance. Anyway State Farm gave me a rental Neon (probably an 03) with about 40K. Obviously this thing's been driven hard and put away wet but I was struck by the crudeness.

I actually think my '97 Cavalier was more comfortable. Driving five miles home hurts more than a 700 mile drive to New Orleans in my Elantra. The Focus is a sophisticated car, better handling and almost as comfortable than my 01 Elantra GLS. The Cav and Neon are really clunky, but at least Chevy is correcting that with the Cobalt. Hopefully Mitsubishi will stay alive long enough to help with the Neon's successor, for a five year old platform, the present car is intolerable.

backy · October 2004

I drove a '05 Aveo LS 5-door 5-speed today. It was loaded with moonroof and alloys, MSRP $14.1k.

Pros: solid structure; quiet, compliant ride; lots of interior room for its size; spacious and airy feel.
Cons: rough, weak engine; clunky shifter; uncomfortable driving position; some cheap-feeling interior bits; lots of wind noise on the highway; fuel economy not great considering its size.
Summary: Good little city car in base form, but there are better values when loaded.

The first thing I noticed was that it was tough to get comfortable in the driver's seat. The seat cushion adjusts in only one direction, meaning as you raise the cushion the rear tilts you forward. The door arm rest is hard plastic, and there is no center arm rest. The seatback had good support.

The next thing I noticed was the unconventional shifter pattern, with Reverse in the upper left, and you need to pull up on a ring to engage it. I could get used to it, but it was a little strange. The shifter itself felt clunky, not as precise as Honda or Toyota (or even Hyundai).

The engine is fine around town but has trouble going up an upgrade. I'd hate to see what it's like with the automatic. The engine was also quite rough. It was the first car I've ever driven where I felt engine vibration not only through the shifter but through the accelerator. It was pretty loud on the highway, but maintained speed OK.

The best thing about the Aveo is its ride. It is very solid, with no squeaks or rattles even going over speed bumps. It absorbs even large bumps well, despite its small size. It felt composed on the highway, and was not affected by a 20-30 mph crosswind--a good showing for a small, light, tall car. The steering felt a little light on-center but it tracked straight. Handling was good--not razor sharp but more than adequate, with just little body lean (but I didn't push it, with the salesman in the car with me). Braking (non-ABS) was smooth.

Although the Aveo is a very small car, the front seats are roomy (I am 5'10") with lots of headroom even with the moonroof, and the back seat was just adequate for me (knees were brushing the front seatback). The back seat has a high seating position that is pretty comfortable, at least for short trips.

Overall I thought the Aveo would make a great car for a college student or young couple/family for around-town driving. If you can put up with no A/C and few features, you can get a '04 model for as little as $7500 or less, which is quite a bargain for a modern car. But with the loaded LS models that top $14k, I think models like the Elantra GLS 5-door are a much better value due to their greater refinement, features, and performance for about the same price.

spectraman · November 2004

For those of you who like the Elantra, check out my 2004.5 Elantra-based Kia Spectra!

http://spectraman.freeservers.com

I am *totally* happy with its initial build quality and performance. Since I saw the topic being discussed above, I thought I'd mention that the turning-radius is phenomenal!

Take a look and let me know what you think!

-SM

spectraman · November 2004

Here's a composite of info from various posts I put up on the Edmunds Spectra/Cerato board over the past few months.

-SM

--------------------------------------

After 3 months / 4000 miles of driving on my new Spectra EX, here are my experiences so far.

- Dealership experience has been very good. 1 minor repair was performed (3rd brake light LED replaced) quickly and to my satisfaction. The overall sales and follow-up experience has been very professional and positive. The dealer has very nice Customer Rewards program that pretty much takes care of basic maintenance like oil changes and tire rotations for the first year or so. The dealer (Dick Scott Kia) also follows up with the customer post-purchase and service visits.

- Initial build quality has been excellent! All interior and exterior panels are straight and uniform in color. All options and features work flawlessly.

- Interior noise levels are excellent. No evidence of excessive droning at 70+ mph as reported by Edmunds. My car *is* equipped with the 4-speed automatic though.

- No squeaks or rattles yet, and that's saying something when driving on Michigan roads! :-)

- Acceleration is good, esp. when you put your foot down. I've noticed a little "dead spot" in the acceleration curve between 1st and 2nd when accelerating gently. If I'm not in a hurry, I just let it pass. If I know that I've got to get moving a little faster (like pulling out in traffic) I know to just press the accelerator down a little harder/faster.

- The car is just chock full of little extras that there's too many to list. All I know is that I'm still discovering little comfort and convenience features scattered through out the car. With my last new car being a '93 Plymouth Acclaim, I'm really amazed at how many new "smart" features cars come with these days incorporated in to the electrical circuitry.

- Pricing was excellent! I was able to take a fully loaded Sand Beige (gold) EX out-the-door for $14,373 (tax and dest included!) using the $1,500 incentive offered. The only big option missing on my car was ABS. My car included all EX options plus floormats, moonroof, spoiler, and alloy wheels. The dealer also through in some way cool hand-painted pin stripes from a local pin stripe artisan. It really finishes off the car!

Other observations:

- The turning radius on the Spectra car is phenomenal! I was able to move the car from one side my subdivision road to the other by simply turning the wheel all the way. No stopping and backing up and repositioning was necessary. No other vehicle I've driven has been able to do this in the same area.

- While reading the owners manual, I just found out that the front seat belts have pre-tensioners that work with an ignitable activator (like an air bag). Another name for these are "pyrotechnic pretensioners".

- The factory 6-speaker CD stereo kicks! I've run several hard-rock and country CDs through the system, and it handles it all with good treble and bass response. The middle range could use a little more punch, but that would require an equalizer to be added to the unit.

- The car is extremely air tight. No wind noise from any of the windows or the moon roof. My ears pop when I close the last window or roof and have the ventilation on

- Heat and A/C ducts for the rear passengers are under the front driver and passenger seats. There's a small forked two-orifice duct under each of the front seats.

From what I could see, it only blows out air when the floor setting (and probably the mixed/split setting as well) is used. The upper vent setting does not appear to route air to these ducts.

- The sun visors extend when flipped to the side. So if the sun is in the rear corner of the window, the visor will slide back on the rod to block it. My wife found this by accident, thinking she broke the visor. But the driver's side does it too, and it doesn't feel broken or flimsy when extended, so this is definitely a feature. The owner's manual doesn't mention that this exists.

- The dome light dims slowly when closing the last door and the ignition's turned off. Close the door when the car's running, and it snaps on and off immediately.

- The dome light comes on when you unlock the doors with the key FOB.

- The front doors have "puddle lights" built into them.

- When unlocking either front door with the key, you can unlock all four doors by twisting the key one additional time. Lock the door with the key, and all four doors lock.

- I thought the glove box didn't have a light the first time I opened it up at night in the driveway, which sort of disappointed me. Later my daughter up the glove box (while driving at night with the headlights on) and there was a light! I now know that the light is tied into the headlight circuit. An unorthodox approach, but I guess it makes sense for the most part.

- The lighted power lock and windows buttons on all of the door panels is convenient at night

Finally, here's a very good article from the Detroit News Auto Review team:

Kia's Spectra grows up
By Paul & Anita Lienert / Special to The Detroit News
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=16- 022

So far, everyone I've shown the car to has been very surprised at the overall quality of the new Spectra. The only verdict out at this point is the longevity of quality. Will it hold up over the long haul? Time will tell.....

iluvmysephia1 · November 2004

will hold up. I was very happy with how my 1999 Kia Sephia drove, handled and kept going. It really was a durable little sedan. My 2001 Kia Sportage is built like a tank and is performing like a true champ. Both of the dealers I've dealt with with the SUV have been both professional and spot-on with their work.

If Kia put out a little sports coupe like Scion has with their tC I would probably pop it into my top choice for a '01 Sportage replacement vehicle. I trust the Kia brand for quality now. Their designers are doing a great job with little extras like you mentioned spectraman, as well as designing functionality into their vehicles. All for a lower price with a much better warranty. A very tough-to- beat combination of attributes for Kia, indeed.

backy, have you test-driven the new Scion tC yet? The 5-speed tC?

backy · November 2004

No, haven't drive the tC yet but it will be on my shopping list when I buy my next car. But it's more likely that next car will be something in the low-end class. I am particularly excited about the Honda Jazz/Fit coming here next year, and there will be some other great small cars available when I go buying in 2006, including the Mazda3i, the Spectra (but still don't like that seat height adjuster), and (probably) next-gen Accent, Rio, Elantra, Civic, Sentra, Neon.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2004

a new Nissan microcar called Micra. It may be 2006 before the U.S. sees it. I like the new Scion tC in Black Cherry Pearl but my wife will probably want to stay SUV in our next purchase. I plan on harping on the tC's many fine attributes and see what she thinks next year about a trade, maybe in the early summer or late spring. I like the tC's styling and it's 2.4L 160 horse 4 cylinder engine, and the fact that one can go 0-60 in 7.4 seconds in one. I also like it's stereo and moonroof. I really wish Kia would get with it and put out a sports coupe. I know it would look awesome and be built well. Their planners must have bigger fish to fry, like the new Mojave pickup truck. Kia is very busy these days, I mean very busy. It's a great consumer car shopping time, if you keep it foreign, that is.

soccermom4 · November 2004

My husband needs a car to take him 7 miles to the train station in the morning and then back home at night. We are mostly looking for the lowest monthly lease payment for a car that will sit in a train station all day. I was looking at the Kia Rio (2004 or 2005). Any opinions or better suggestions? Thanks!

backy · November 2004

Are you looking for the lowest LEASE payment, or the lowest PAYMENT? A Rio is probably not the best bet for the lowest lease payment, because it has pretty high depreciation. But since it's one of the lowest-priced cars around, it would have a low payment if you purchased it. Another good bet in a new car if you want a low payment is a '04 Aveo, which IMO is a better car than the Rio, especially in 5-door form, and can be had for around $7500 in base-model form (big rebate on the '04s). But that's w/o air or much else. For driving to/from the train, what else do you need, eh? The Accent (base model again) is also sometimes on sale for under $8000 and is a nice little car, between the Rio and Aveo IMO.

If you are looking for a low lease payment, you might actually be better off with a more expensive car that has lower depreciation, like a Honda Civic DX or VP. I've seen lease payments around $150/month on those. But when the lease is up, you have no equity. You'd pay about the same on a Rio or Aveo but after five years, the car would be worth a few thousand dollars.

Actually, for driving to the train station 14 miles a day, I'd get a used car. You could pick up a late-model Accent or Rio for $5000 or less, still under warranty, pay a little over $100/month and pay the thing off in four years.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2004

the whole trip is so short and that way you'd have less to lose in a theft, etc. No need to worry about dents really, either, IMO, if it's used. That's one thing that gets old if your car is new or fairly new, that of getting door dings and such. I notice that the new 2005 Scion tC I want to trade for has no side moulding(as a good sports coupe shouldn't)and one would need to park at least 10 spaces away from everyone else in parking lots to protect it. Yep, that's what I'm talkin' about, man.

Another tasty little tidbit I noticed on the tC is that it has 4-wheel disc brakes as well as ABS all around, for extra braking safety. The car is loaded with nice little surprises like this. It's getting harder to look at any other rig seriously, the more I look the better the little sports coupe with the 45 degree reclining rear seats and moonroof with fixed glass roof in the back looks.

backy · November 2004

Looking at any low-end sedans lately, or have you "graduated" to the sport coupe market?

iluvmysephia1 · November 2004

right now, except the 2005 Kia Sportage or the 2005 Scion tC. I guess neither is a "low-end" sedan, is it? I suppose I'm interested in the Chevrolet Aveo sedan and hatch. I also kind of like the new 2006 Nissan Micra, although I doubt I'd ever buy one. It's awfully small.

jojomonkeyboy · November 2004

This article is almost a year old but I love the quote from Mike Allen:

"We dealt with quality right up front," says Mike Allen, vehicle line director for GM Daewoo Automotive Technology. "We gave them a quality target equal to Chevrolet's average, and then we gave them a stretch target of the best in segment, which is the Toyota Echo."

from USA today 1/7/204

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-01-07-autoshowcov_x.htm

I own an ECHO and I bought it because after the research that I did, it was and is my opinion that the ECHO is probably the most problem free of the little sedans. But I paid a premium for that reputation of quality... The 2004 Aveos and Rios are really inexpensive right now. We're thinking about getting an Aveo, an Accent or a Rio for my mother-in-law. The typical little old lady who only drives her car on the weekend to go shopping and to go to church. She's driving a Ford Fairmont that barely starts, barely runs, and barely stops.

explorerx4 · November 2004

give him a ride to the station in the morning and a kiss good bye.

jpryba · November 2004

Although some other Chevrolet models have some better materials in their interiors, I would say that the Aveo's interior is assembled with more care and with tighter tolerances. Granted, we're still talking about a $10K car, but the build quality seems more impressive on the Aveo, relatively speaking, than in other GM models costing 2 or even 3 times as much. Anyone else agree with this?

backy · November 2004

Yes, however, the quality of Chevy interiors is improving, e.g. Malibu, Equinox, and now the Cobalt.

jpryba · November 2004

The Malibu's interior is growing on me. I've read reviews criticizing the Equinox's interior, though. Being based on the Saturn VUE, I'm fearing for the worst. The Cobalt's interior looks like it might actually be better than the Malibu's, though. The Cobalt is also based on the same platform as the Saturn ION, so if they can make the interior look light years ahead of that (with the ION getting some of those upgrades next year), then maybe the Equinox won't be so bad relative to the VUE when I finally get a chance to check it out.

Anyway, though, it's nice to see GM putting more attention into its smaller car interiors instead of ignoring them.

jojomonkeyboy · November 2004

I don't care about quality of interior too much on a low-end sedan. I'll admit it would be nice to have - but it's not something I'm willing to pay extra for on a commuter car.

Of course there are some issues of poor quality / poor design that are hard to ignore... The way the Kia Rio is designed - the window crank on the driver's side pokes my left knee - of course that's just me, but I had the same thing with my wife's Hyundai Excell.

In the Aveo and the ECHO - I can adjust the seat so that I can stretch my legs comfortably while driving - in the Rio, even with the seat all the way back I felt a little scrunched. I took the Rio for a 30 minute test drive and towards the end of it - my knees started aching (which is weird cuz I had that same problem with my wife's Excell) Actually, the Rio totally reminded me of the Excell.

Anyway, my point is there are some interior design issues which are important - and if I'm paying $30,000 for a car then I expect a beautiful high-quality interior, but for under $10,000 - I think you've already conceded that PRICE is the over-riding factor, and apart from functionality concerns, I just don't see interior quality as being that important.

muffin_man · November 2004

I just drove 4 and a half hours (Mammoth --> Los Angeles) at about 85mph in the Aveo. Got 34mpg, and was never uncomfortable. The car handled well in the snow and at high freeway speeds. It was a great experience, and I am very happy with the car.

Even better, it makes my Civic Si feel like a Corvette!

Oh, and I like the Aveo's interior - best in class.

lovetosavegas · November 2004

Are you saing that Aveo's interior is better then Mazda3 of Corolla's? Or among Accent-Rio-Aveo?

muffin_man · November 2004

Definitely the best of the Rio, Accent, Echo, and company.

The inside is very well put together - excellent build quality - but the materials and design are nothing like a Corolla or Mazda3.

lovetosavegas · November 2004

I agree with that statement. This kinda brings back an issue that there are two car classes in this low-end sedans. There are sub-10K cars and there are sub-15K cars. But we usually know what we are talking about.

backy · November 2004

Well, not a lot of sub-$10k cars. Three, and only when stripped. Not a very interesting class of cars by itself IMO. It will be interesting to see what the price of the next-gen Accent and Rio are--maybe Chevy will have the sub-10k class all to themselves!

jojomonkeyboy · November 2004

The only attraction a Rio has is its low price. The Rio is the only new car that some people can afford. Hyundai Rios compete on price. If they can't stay under $9,000 for a Rio - they might as well not make them, cuz almost nobody would buy them.

As far as the Aveo... I'm not even going to get into its Daewoo roots because I think there are a lot of shoppers out there that never heard of Daewoo, they don't know anything about the car except that it is a pretty inexpensive Chevy. I don't see the Aveo's price going up because first of all it specifically is intended to go up against the cheapest of the cheap low-end sedans, and secondly, at just a few K more - it is bumping another car in their line - the Malibu - when I was shopping around for a car in September 2003,(ended up buying an ECHO) I stopped in a Chevy dealership just to look at what they had (this was before the Aveo). A Chevy salesman offered me $11,000 drive away price for a new 2003 Malibu. It was manual transmission, nothing but AC, and I thought about it. But when I did research on the Malibu and talked to people who actually owned Chevy Malibus I came to the conclusion that it didn't have the level of reliability that I was looking for.

Anyway, my point is, I don't see the Aveo or the Rio moving above $10,000

I guess the Accent conceivably could since the quality has improved - I'm not sure how much mileage (sales-wise) Hyundai gets out of the J.D. Powers numbers - If people choose a Hyundai over a Honda or Toyota, I think they do so based on the Hyundai being less expensive and having the superior warranty.

If a car buyer has $12,000 to spend on a car - do they choose an Accent over all of the other things they could get for $12,000

I don't think so.

So the current 3 sub-10 sedans will probably still be the sub-10 sedans for a few more years.

When the Koreans have been making high-quality, innovative cars for a good chunk of time, and they start thinking about raising the prices on their cars, it will be about the time the Chinese will begin exporting their version of the Yugo to the U.S. for under $6,000 and then all carmakers will have to rethink the low end sedan segment all over again.

Low End Sedans (under $16k)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles