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Low End Sedans (under $16k)

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Aveo or Accent instead of the Spectra? Not for me. The IIHS crash-test score on the Spectra is disconcerting, but its NHTSA scores are fine and it is so much a superior car to the Aveo and Accent it's no contest IMO.

     

    Personally, I'd take the Matrix over the Aerio, although I haven't seen the '05 Aerio which I understand has significant improvements.

     

    By "Cobalt goes here" do you mean you'd rate it #1 in this group?
  • brihambriham Member Posts: 33
    Here are my favorites assuming "low-end" means less than $20,000

     

    1. Mazda3 - it is built on the Volvo S40 platform and if you look closely it is almost the same car. Here is a link to a review:

    http://www.automedia.com/buyers_guide_04/content/usb40mac17.asp?a- ffid=

     

    2. Scion tC - great looks and 160 horsepower.

    http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/scion/tc/2005/rts20041001st.- asp?affid=

     

    3. Honda Civic - boring but reliable and good on gas. http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/rts20040401hc/rts20040401hc.- asp?affid=
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Have you driven a Matrix? Way underpowered. Completely out of contention, IMO. With the newly upgraded interior, I'd take the Aerio SX w/AWD. I drove an Aerio way back when they first came out in '02- when they had the funky dash and 140 horses... and thought it was a good car- different, a bit rough around the edges, and oddly executed. But now... its more mainstream, has a better engine, and the same kick-[non-permissible content removed] warranty that the Koreans offer.

     

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, I've driven the Matrix and the Aerio. I prefer the Matrix. (Power isn't everything--and it has a high-powered version if you really need it.) I like the ride and seating position of the Matrix in particular, and I think (need to confirm) the rear storage is bigger in the Matrix. The Matrix also has higher fuel economy and of course the great Toyota reputation for quality, reliability, and high resale value.

     

    P.S. It's NOT the same warranty as the Koreans offer.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    May just be the dash improvements, but the feel of the car is completely different for '05. Plethora of Chevy dealers, getting a Maxx for 16K, and the rather weak Hyundai/Suzuki local dealer cinched it.

     

    Did not like the 03 Aerio SX I drove-- digital dash was a huge turnoff and the entire feel of the car was different, although the 05 also had a 5-speed.

     

    Matrix OK but NOISY. xB great around town but turning 3500 rpm @ 70 mph and NOISY as well.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    " PT Cruiser - Truly a dog in base form. Not under $15,000 in any guise that I would be interested in. "

    -end quote-

     

    I am curious as why you think it is a dog? With a stick the 150HP and 165# torque seems like enough to me. Rev it up between shifts! It looks pretty cool to me too. That said, the Mazda3 is a winner, I think. As for Suzuki, I would worry about the resale and number of dealerships. If you are talking simply under $20k, you can add a base Accord, Mazda6, Altima and a whole bunch of those which are good choices. Most add on stuff is just more junk to go bad, and costing money in the process.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    backy-

    The Spectra is a nicer car than the Aveo or Accent, but it's also much more expensive. Considering Accents and Aveos are avilable for under $9000, I consider either one a much better value than the Spectra - I can see no reason to buy the unremarkable Spectra, when there are so many other excellent cars of the same size and price - considering its poor crash performance. It doesn't stand out.

     

    [keep in mind, the Aveo and Accent don't really compete with $15k cars, but I am factoring price into the equation]

     

    alpha01-

    We definitely agree on the Matrix and Aerio. I think the Aerio is one of the most underrated cars out there right now. And the Aerio has a 100,000 mile warranty, even if it's only 7 years. Matrix is as boring as a Corolla, but heavier, and less fuel efficient. Don't get me wrong, the Corolla is a great car, it's just more

     

    m1miata-

    You know, I always liked the PT Cruiser - very cool looking, but i never drove one until about 4 months ago. And I took a fairly spirited test drive (to be fair, it was an automatic), and I was really disappointed [gf only drives an auto]. It was extremely slow (felt slower than the Aveo, even though it probably isn't), and soft handling.

     

    I wouldn't buy any car without nearby dealerships, but there are plenty of Suzuki dealers in LA.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Spectra costs more than the Aveo or Accent, but you get a lot more even in the base Spectra than on the $9000 versions of the Aveo and Accent--e.g. 4-wheel disc brakes, SACs, more passenger space, much nicer interior, quieter ride, more power and better performance. Since Spectras can be had for under $11k with rebates and discounts, I don't think that is too high a price premium for what you get. But I do agree there are better alternatives to the Spectra, particularly the Elantra, which has the same engine and platform and much better IIHS frontal crash ratings, and more features (except SABs vs. SABs+SACs) for about the same money as the Spectra.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I see Accents and Aveos for under $7k all the time, which is a big difference from $11k for a Spectra. The light weight of the Accent is going to help make up for not having 4-wheel discs, and the Aveo stops almost as well as an Acura TL. (ie not particularly well).

     

    The Aveos and Accents I'm talking about have standard AC (Assuming that is what SAC stands for) I don't think the Accent is available without anymore.

     

    I also don't think the Spectra has more interior passenger space than the Aveo, it's very space efficient. It does have more power, and more performance, but it's not a quick car, and is probably only marginally faster than either.

     

    The way I view this list is, 10 different cars to buy. The Spectra isn't any better of an economy sedan than most cars on the list, and it's not cheaper to own or drive than the Aveo or Accent. It's an also ran. If somebody really wanted the Spectra on the list, it would have to be behind the following high quality econo-sedans that can b had for under $15k.

     

    Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Elantra, Aerio, Cobalt, Focus, and Mazda 3. And I don't consider it any more desireable than an Echo, Matrix, Reno/Forenza, xA, xB, Accent, or Aveo. (to round out the list of sub-$15k cars I'd rather have)

     

    I consider it more in a league with:

    Cavalier, PT Cruiser, Neon, Rio, Lancer, Sunfire, or ION.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The last time I saw an ad on an Aveo or Accent under $7000 was the closeout '04 base stripped models (e.g. the $9995 Aveo with no A/C or any other amenities). The '05s are going for over $8000 in my area, closer to $9000 for the Aveo. Those are all w/o A/C. If you can get a new '05 Aveo or Accent with A/C for under $7000, that is the Deal of the Decade, since A/C is not standard on Aveo or Accent--nor on the base Spectra for that matter. So you'd be saving at least $4000 on the Aveo or Accent. Can't beat that for price on a new car. But I've driven all three cars and still think the Spectra is the car I'd rather live with for many years.

     

    I'd put the Spectra ahead of the Sentra, Aerio, Echo, Reno/Forenza, xA, xB (on styling alone!) in addition to the Accent and Aveo. I think the Lancer doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as the likes of the Cavalier, Neon, Rio, Sunfire, and ION. Although the ION is improving bit by bit--still outclassed by its cousin the Cobalt though. The Lancer is a solid, roomy, modern compact with good quality and a great warranty. Still a notch below the leaders though. The Aerio is getting there but I still wouldn't put it in the top 10.

     

    BTW, SAC = side air curtains.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    As an option, one may consider US models of cars, such as the Pontiac GrandAm for $10k only a year old. My Dad spotted an ad for some 2004 model year cars. They have a whole bunch of them at low prices. I guess if you by a GM car, you must be willing to hold it until it dies to get full value out of it. How wrong could ya go though at half off retail. I may look at the G6 in a couple or years. I suppose it may take two years to half on that one ;-) American cars make super deals bought used. The G6 looks like an excellent car. If I hold off buying another car for a year or two, I will consider it. Looks good!
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I saw a base Aveo for $6925, 2 weekends ago, and I see a lot of 2004s for sale in California (maybe a dozen?) on GM buypower. I bet those could be had for under $7k. If only I didn't have one already...

     

    I still see Accents for under $7k, but I did think they had a/c, maybe I'm wrong.

     

    These are 04s, not 05s. But at these prices, you are still going to do just fine on depreciation, especially if you keep the cars for many years.

     

    The Spectra is a nicer car to live with, but I still don't know if I would go for it. It's an interesting choice at $11k, but I'm still not convinced it's worth the extra money.

     

    I'm going to discuss the rankings in the next post.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Tier 1:

    1. Civic - HX is tops for $15k or less.

    2. Mazda 3 - Great cars.

    3. Corolla - Top notch. (wouldn't buy one)

    4. Cobalt - ...if reliability holds up.

     

    Tier 2:

    5. Focus - Don't be scared by 5 year old recalls.

    6. xA/xB - the best small cars in the segment.

    7. Aerio - There is a lot in this package.

    8. Elantra - Hyundai has come a long way.

    9. Sentra - I see these for under $9k.

    10. Matrix - Don't like it. A Toyota.

    11. Echo - Underrated, overpriced.

    12. Aveo - A cheaper alternative to an xA.

    13. Accent - Very solid.

    14. Reno/Forenza - ...if reliability holds up.

     

    Tier 3:

    15. Lancer - Decent, nothing remarkable.

    16. PT Cruiser - Good looks, base model stinks.

    17. ION - Good price, quad coupe is a nice design.

    18. Spectra - Unsafe at any speed?

     

    Tier 4:

    19. Cav/Sunfire - Nice engine. Poor safety.

    20. Neon - Definitely not an SRT-4.

    21. Rio - Worst car in America!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    the old Sephia. So what you say? Well, IMHO, that is saying something. I enjoyed my '99 Sephia but Kia, as backy has pointed out very eloquently above, has improved the subcompact Spectra. Call it factory/knowledge sharing with Hyundai if you want(I am of the opinion that Kia handles their own engineering ship fine without Hyundai's help)but Kia is putting out a very substantial economy sedan for $13,720 with this Spectra. The 4-wheel discs and SAC along with the frontal and side airbags already installed make for a nice safety appointment from the get-go. Publication test-drivers from near and far in America are giving the 2004 1/2 and new 2005 Kia Spectra good solid driving reports.

     

    I wouldn't regard the IIHS report as weighty enough to stop me from getting one and I would also give Kia the nod in the looks department for the new Spectra over the Hyundai Elantra's looks as well.

     

    Has Kia watered down the looks of the new 2006 Rio too much from the concept's new unusual shape? Anybody else see that yellow '06 Rio concept on the net? As usually happens the production '06 Rio looked much tamer.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Am I correct in assuming that the Rio, Sephia, and Optima are the result of Kia's own engineering? I think that without Hyundai's help, they would have disappeared from our shores. Those are three awful cars.

     

    I'm still waiting for the first car from Kia that I think is a good buy. I have no doubt it will come, but it hasn't yet.

     

    The new Spectra is much nicer than I ranked it, but I just don't think it's a good idea to drive a car that can't handle an accident. There's no reason to buy one when there are better and safer options out there.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The first Kia that is really a good buy--meaning a really good car with great features plus a great price--may be the 2006 Sportage LX, coming this summer. MSRP $15,900 very well equipped including ABS, SABs/SACs, stability control, power package, roof rack, and alloys. It's Kia's version of the Tuscon but for less money. OK, so it's not a "car" exactly. And not under $15k MSRP. But a great value I think. Next up in terms of a really good buy from Kia will be IMO the 2006 Rio, also due this year. iluv referred to it earlier. Interior room of the Corolla and Civic, 6 airbags, most power in its class from a new VVT engine, new suspension and interior, and IMO really sharp styling for the sedan. I haven't seen the production 5-door yet but the concept car was great looking. The '06 Accent will be built on the same platform. Then if that's not enough, the '06 Optima will be built on the NF Sonata platform, and that looks to be one heckofa car in performance, features, safety, and styling. Then let's not forget the all-new '06 Sedona that is bigger, lighter, and more powerful and versatile than the old Sedona. So maybe sometime this year your wish for a Kia that is a good buy will be realized.

     

    As for the Spectra not being able to handle an accident... Kia really blew it on the IIHS frontal offset test, yes, similar to what Hyundai did with the '01 Elantra. But Hyundai made a minor change to the Elantra's seat track and now it's rated Good by the IIHS. I hope Kia management learns from this and doesn't take 3 years to do something about the Kia's test result. That one test doesn't make me think the Spectra is an unsafe car, but I personally wouldn't buy one until the problem is corrected because there are cars that are just as good (like the Elantra) available for the same or less money.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    i do't see much mention of the focus. it must not be a 'low ender'. i think mine is a prety good car.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is a low-ender. It made Edmunds' Top 10 list of low-enders. Tell us about your Focus and why you like it. What other cars did you consider before buying it?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Focus is a disappointment in 2005, in my opinion. The $19K example at the Philly show had the cheapest exterior door handles Ive ever felt, really really nasty. I also think the interior redesign was a step in the wrong direction- the textures are all wrong, the materials didnt look well fitted, the blocky double DIN size radio is less integrated and no longer youthful looking, and there's still no redline on the tach. I can only imagine that people would choose this over a Mazda 3 because Ford is currently offering a $2000 rebate along with a Dell. Bleh. Time for a redesign.

     

    ~alpha
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    "Am I correct in assuming that the Rio, Sephia, and Optima are the result of Kia's own engineering? I think that without Hyundai's help, they would have disappeared from our shores. Those are three awful cars."

     

    I've never understoody why the Optima depreciates so much faster than a Sonata since they're essentially the same car. Just recently gave my Elantra to my daughter and purchased a Malibu Maxx. Thought carefully about purchasing a (soon to be replaced) Optima/Sonata but was worried about Optima's depreciation and the local Hyundai dealer is becomming increasingly smarmy.

     

    Not sure why the Optima is such an awful car unless you feel the Sonata is too. I realize the JD Power ratings for Sonata are better, but personally I prefer the Optima's front end styling. Probably just me, however, since Edmunds Optima board has been dead for months.
  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    What would a discussion about the KIA Spectra be without a few pearls of wisdom from SpectraMan? :-)

     

    Here are my observations of daily life with a Spectra EX:

     

    - Does it have quality?

    After 7k hard Michigan-road miles, my Spectra EX has yet to experience any problems. The only defect to date was a 3rd brake LED that was replaced promptly. So far nothing's broken or fallen off. There are no squeaks and no rattles... even when the temps are down near 0, driving on bomb cratered-like roads.

     

    Morning starts (even at 0 degrees) have been instantaneous followed by fast engine and interior warm-ups.

     

    - Does it have value?

    Again, let's compare real-life experiences. How many of the cars listed here will give you the following for $13,300? : Power moonroof, alloy rims, fog lights, 6-speaker CD, power windows, power heated mirrors, power locks, power trunk release, tilt wheel, cruise, rear defrost, side airbags, keyless remote, rear spoiler, matching floormats, mudflaps, rear seat heat ducting, and in my car's case hand-painted dual pinstripes?

     

    Performance is also extremely good for a "low-end" car. Acceleration is good, the automatic transmission shifts smoothly, and the 4-wheel disc brakes stop the car on a dime. The extemely tight turning radius has also saved me a ton of grief in tight driving and parking situations. Fuel mileage is probably my biggest gripe about the car. It's not bad, but it's not class-leading either. Hopefully the newer Theta-class engines by Hyundai/KIA will fix this problem whenever they're implemented.

     

    Read a few reviews in the Edmunds Spectra forum to learn about too-numerous-to-list-here additional features of the car.

     

    ==================

     

    So, to summarize, for $13,300 (pre-tax) I've got a stylish, fully featured (with features that I find important), modern compact car that has the largest interior space rating of its class and runs and rides extremely well, while exhibiting extremely good initial build quality .

     

    Is it perfect.... of course not.

       

    Are there other cars out there similar to it for approximately the same money? Probably.

     

    Are there cars on this thread's list that is perceived as superior overall to the Spectra but in reality aren't. Very likely.

     

    Final word? IMHO, to call this car an "Also Ran" is inaccurate.

     

    -SM

     

    http://spectraman.freeservers.com
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My '04 Elantra GT was $13,200 + T&L and includes everything you listed except power trunk release (it's a hatchback and has a handle that's unlocked by the remote locking), mudflaps, and pinstriping (I hate pinstriping). In addition, my GT has ABS with traction control, sport suspension, trip computer, sport gauges, 8-way adjustable driver's seat, leather seating surfaces, free scheduled maintenance for 3 years, and the versatility of a hatchback. Better looking than the Spectra too IMO.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Focus made another Top 10 list at Edmunds: Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2005
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    the Spectra are great bargains and great deals on wheels. The '06 Rio should be a great value and a good looking car.

     

    backy, yes, the '05 Kia Sportage is a great deal for $16,000. My '01 Sportage has been a great rig and trading is not required now, but a Smart Blue or Volcanic Red '05 Kia Sportage is up there at the top of my futures list along with the Scion tC, another great value. It'll take a couple of nice long test drives to be able to make a decision.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    Backy:

     

    Thanks for the feedback on your Elantra. How many miles do you have on your car, and what has your defects (if any) been?

     

    Your car's ABS, traction control, and leather seating surfaces are definitely upgrades compared to my car.

     

    My dealer has a CRM point system they subscribe to that made it easy for me to get 4,000 points that covers oil changes and scheduled maintenance for what should work out to be the first couple of years, so I consider that about even with your car's program.

     

    And as fars the looks go, I lean towards the Spectra and the pinstripes. Those items are definitely personal choice items though... no right... no wrong. :-) The local pinstriping guy DID do a whale of a job on my car though when he put on a set of one thick/one thin medium brown and straw *painted* pinstripes on the side body character line. Quite a few people that has seen these have commented on them positively. Like you, I generally detest *tape* stripe packages on cars.

     

    So.... who else out there wants to throw their buying choice and experiences out here for discussion?

     

    -SM
  • dkuhajdadkuhajda Member Posts: 487
    The Focus one year used with 15K makes an excellent $8,000-$9,000 choice. The best thing about the Focus is there are tons of them out there. Lots of options as they get older to get parts cheap enough and find a corner repair shop with experience on them. Same for the Taurus and Sable except you have to go out to a 2003 to find them at $8,000 with 25K on the clock.

     

    As far as low end new car value for the dollar. For the basic transportation, I've seen the last of the 2004 Aveo's going for $7995 and these are the LS that included the A/C and had automatics. Much better driver than my 96 Geo Metro, eventually when the wheels fall off my Geo, I will be looking hard at the Aveo. Preferably a slightly used one at $6,000 or so.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    explorerx4 & alpha01-

    I don't think the Focus is competitive once the price gets above $15k. But this one dealership nearby always advertises a new ZX3s w/AC and a 5spd for $8883, or something like that. Now that is a fantastic deal. I think the Focus is a good car, but nobody should pay a premium for one.

     

    csandste-

    Was there an Optima before the current model? I might be thinking of a different car.

     

    spectraman-

    The Spectra would have finished much higher if it weren't for the safety scores. Why buy one when the Elantra has better features AND crash test scores?

     

    fushigi-

    I bet that if you buy a Focus for $8883, your residual value in 5 years will be very competitive.

     

    iluv-

    I'm looking forward to the next Rio also.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    The Optima has had three different front ends in the first three years of sales. The first was an early chevy-like chrome grill, the second was a Hannible Lechter type toothy grin, the third (and only attractive one) has a single bar and (more or less) standard Kia front end. Interior and side are fairly identical to Sonata. Sonata however has LOTS better resale value.

     

    As far as resale value, Edmunds doesn't recognize that many cars sell way below invoice. In 2001 I bought an Elantra with group II (cruise and remote locks) for $11.2, last week I bought a Malibu Maxx for $16.2. Both were way under Edmunds target price. I doubt if I could get that kind of percentage off a Honda or Toyota.
  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    MM:

     

    After reading Backy's Elantra report, I agree with you about buying an Elantra vs. a Spectra based on features, IIHS rated safety, and cost alone.

     

    In *my* case, the reasons I would still choose the Spectra are these:

     

    - Dealer location. I have a brand new stand-alone KIA dealer about 2 miles from my home. I'm not sure how far the nearest Hyundai dealer is, but it's definitely much further than that. Based on my repair experiences with Fords and Chryslers in the past, proximity to the dealer for warranty repairs would have been a major perk! ;-) So far though, the proximity benefit has only been used once!

     

    - Exterior and interior styling. I've looked over the Elantra (post-Spectra purchase) and I really do like the Spectra's exterior and interior styling and appointments much better. I do wish the leather seats would have been available on the Spectra EX, but the cloth they used is pretty plush and appears to be of high quality like the various car magazine articles noted.

     

    --------------

     

    My take on the Spectra's safety? Well based on IIHS' offset test, I lose on this point when compared to the Elantra. I still think that the Spectra is overall a fairly safe vehicle though based on how well it retained it's structure integrity in the IIHS test, the IIHS ratings for rear end collisions, and NHSA's decent ratings.

     

    I definitely don't consider it a "deathtrap" as some of the contributors on here seem to deem it based on the tone of their postings.

     

    -SM
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    I'm guilty of implying it's a deathtrap - more realistically, it is the poorest performer on the test since the Cavalier in 2001.

     

    I like the Spectra5.
  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    FYI... in today's Detroit News:

     

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders/0502/14/01-88602.htm

     

    EXCERPT:

     

    Korean giant flexes its muscles

    By John McCormick / Autos Insider

     

    A decade ago people would chuckle at the sight of Korean engineers and designers crawling around cars and trucks at auto shows with tape measures, cameras and clip boards.

     

    These days, the results of their endeavors are no laughing matter for other automakers, especially the Japanese brands. At this year's Detroit and Chicago auto shows, evidence of just how the far Korea's Hyundai/Kia auto conglomerate has come was there for all to see.
  • lostlost Member Posts: 64
    I recently purchased a 05 Focus SES ZX4 with auto,ABS,side air bags. The sticker was 18,700 and I got it for 14,500, a great car for the money and under 15,000.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Sounds like a great deal!
  • nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    That's funny. The Japanese used to do the same things back in the 60's and 70's. They would tour various US factories and take tons of pictures and take it back to Japan. Around mid 80's the Japanese stoppped taking pictures. This is when american companies realized the Japanese have caught up and we are in trouble. The rest is history.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have about 8,000 miles on my '04 Elantra GT over just under 11 months. It's actually my wife's car but I get to drive it occasionally. :-) There have been zero problems to date. There was a recall on a gas line clamp that I had looked at during its first oil change, and at some point the software for the driver's front airbag is going to be updated due to the IIHS crash tests. It's a really fun car to drive and I have to admit I enjoy the moonroof more than I thought I would (my first moonroof). I'm not crazy about leather, but my DW likes it and it is her car after all. It's actually not as uncomfortable in the summer as I thought it would be.

     

    On my 4.5-year-old '01 Elantra GLS, it has 31,000 miles now and is holding up very well. Just one part failure, an O2 sensor (replaced under warranty), and a squeak in the clutch that was addressed during an oil change. Also a little window trim strip had to be replaced under warranty because the black tape came loose and the metal underneath started to rust. Other than a cold-weather rattle that had resisted correction, I have no complaints. The car drives and rides great (on its new Kumho tires), interior still looks new, and the paint is also like new save for some little dings here and there.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    grrr... typed in a long response, but lost it when i hit the wrong key, so here's the short version; car is better a better driving experience than i expected, has tons of good features(options). cost me at least 5k less than (if there could be) a comparable civic or corolla.
    almost 9k, zero problems, 1 recall for heated seats.

    drive it many times because i like to, not because i have to.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    grrr... typed in a long response, but lost it when i hit the wrong key

     

    "Ctrl-Z" and or the Back button are your friends ... :)
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    It's good to know that I have so many new friends.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
  • spectramanspectraman Member Posts: 255
    Backy:

     

    Not to criticize yours or anyone else's tastes, but more as an explanation of my own, check out these two sets of photos:

     

    Elantra rear:

    http://www.elantraxd.com/Misc/spoiler2.jpg

     

    Elantra front:

    http://images.intellichoice.com/Large/04270ElanGT%5B%5B%5D%5D%5B%- - - 5B%5D%5D4552_2.gif

     

    Spectra rear:

    http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/roadtest/04.kia.spectra/04- .kia.spectra.r34.500.jpg

     

    Spectra front:

    http://www.autonews.com/files/2004NAIAS/kia/images/KiaSpectra1.jp- - - g

     

    I followed an Elantra 5-door GT (with it's tail lights turned on) in to work today, and I finally realized that it's the front and rear light treatments that I dislike the most. The rear end of the Elantra reminds me of a snake (or insect) face with two glowing red eyes and fangs. A goofy observation... I know. But that's how it strikes me. :-)

     

    The front end isn't offensive, but it doesn't strike me as symetrical and streamlined as the Spectra's.

     

    -SM
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    The rear end of the sedan was always the car's strongest point IMHO. In the hatch they got everything pointing in different directions, I would have preferred that they build off the sedans general lines. The front end of the Elantra was always a bit weak, but I prefer the side of the Elantra to the Spectra sedan.

     

    In both cases the hatches are far better looking from the side then the sedans. The Elanta a bit like a 90's Saab, the Spectra like the Mazda Pro5.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=104723#

     

    Not quite as good looking as the European Focus, but it's a start. Same US prohibitions agains small upscale cars will probably apply-- of course I love hatches.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Styling is a subjective thing--very personal. Heck, some people even like the styling of the ECHO. I don't like the rear end of the Spectra--I think it's too stubby and too derivative. At least the rear end on the Elantra--sedand and hatch--is unique. I also love the profile of the Elantra hatch (sedan is OK but not the best), and I like the front-end styling of the Elantra with the nose job it got for '04. I like the Spectra's nose too, but not any more than the Elantra's.

     

    BTW, the rear end of the Elantra GT you pictured is NOT the current model. The '04-05 GT hatchback doesn't have the big wing spoiler, but a smaller, integrated spoiler which I happen to prefer (it doesn't scream, "hey, look, I got a spoiler!"). Also I think the Rally Red GT is particularly sharp (of course, because I have one).
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    Here Here! I second and third that... Why is it every time I see a car I LOVE it is some car that will never be sold here because it isn't dull like a Malibu or Impala. Then there is the dread that if they do build it here they will ruin it by "Americanizing" it for Billy Bob. I find the Opel drop dead sexy.
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    I agree that each person has his/her likes/dislikes.

    I use to like the Elantra until this last styling update. I dislike the front. I really like the spectra. I walk buy a silver blue one in the office parking lot everyday. Very sharp. I would buy the spectra 5 door because I am a hatchback lover. If I were to buy a sedan it would have to be the model with the darker cloth seats. I really dislike the extremely light gray cloth in the standard spectra interior. I know that basically they are the same car under the skin. I'm sure each will be a good car. My sister and brother have both owned Kia's and have had no problems. My sister drives 60000 miles a year for her job. Her Kia has held up well.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I picked up the March issue of CAR Magazine on my way home from London today. I love their capsule reviews. Their take on the Cerato:

     

    For: Looks like a European car

    Against: Milksop engines

    Sum up: Could be Kia's best yet

     

    They must not have driven it because they didn't give it a "star" rating. BTW, the Cerato can be had with both a 1.6L and 2.0L engine in the UK.

     

    Their reviews on some other low-end cars are hilarious, e.g. the Accent:

     

    For: Cheap

    Against: And that's it

    Sum up: Please don't do it, please

     

    They rate it "Worst in Class". Well, personally I think that's a little harsh, but they do have lots of great small cars over there--most of which we don't get here in the States.

     

    Oh, and on the Elantra (since we were doing Spectra vs. Elantra earlier):

     

    For: Lots of kit

    Against: Lots of depreciation

    Sum up: Lots of reasons not to

     

    They gave it one star--same as the Accent. But it appears to only be available in a 2.0L diesel in the UK, if the magazine is accurate.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Segue to Iluvmysephia who I predict we'll hear from within one hour... ;-)
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I'm sure the Brits have more interesting cars available but I've always thought they were a bit too tough...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    that 'rally red' is really subtle :)

     

    btw.. pat, ctrl+z would have been my friend. thanks for the info!
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Subtle? It's not supposed to be subtle! It's called a GT, for gosh sakes--all 138 hp of it! :-)

     

    Here is my car:

     

    http://www.tcinternet.net/users/backman5/p1010050.jpg

      

    http://www.tcinternet.net/users/backman5/p1010051.jpg

     

    (Yes, that is actually MY car--not just one that looks like it.)
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