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or shud i push for lower????
If you already purchased yesterday, how can you push for a lower price?
To me, no it does not sound reasonable, but then I'm a man of my word. If I agree to buy something at a specific price and put down a deposit, then I would carry through with the deal.
But I understand how you feel as I had a dealer do exactly that when the 99 Honda Odyssey came out, we agreed on a price over phone and email, then the next day when I went to take delivery, they wanted more, said "We think it's going to be a hot seller", and it was, but I walked. I wouldn't give people like that my business at any price.
2009 HONDA ACCORD EX MODEL. (automatic)
INVOICE $21,400.00
AFTER TAXES AND OTHER JAZZ -- out the door price $23,000.00
I did price the manual transmission too .
2009 HONDA ACCORD EX MODEL. (Manual)
INVOICE $20,689.00
AFTER TAXES AND OTHER JAZZ -- out the door price $22,285.00
Please advise.
thanks
baba
I went to the Honda dealer on Saturday and saw a brand new 2009 Accord Coupe EX-L V6 Automatic but no Navigation the color of the car was black on black. The salesman said that I can have the car for $24,775 including destination. The salesman said that the price was $2,000 below invoice. Is that a good price or can I do better.
Thanks,
CarBuff
Edmunds Price Checker
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Tell the salesman to work up a sales contract for you including all fees etc.. so that you can see what you are really paying. It is a standard sales contract/retail installment contract form. If the numbers are good for you then sign the dotted line.
And don't forget about the stuff (extended warranty, low jack installation, exterior/paint protection, etc..) that the finance person is going to try to add on. You will find this can add up to several hundred or thousands of extra $$ on top of whatever the salesperson quoted or wrote up for you.
So when you ask if it is a good price or not just make sure you are asking about the total OTD price that it is costing you to drive away.
And remember the bottom line is that it is only a good price until you take ownership. Then it depreciates 10-20% immediately. A car is not an investment. It is an expense. Buy good stuff, get your money out of it then move on.
I have leased a number of Honda's through the years. It's time once again. I've started discussions via internet dealers and have gotten rid of most of them as they wouldn't budge on pricing.
There is one now that is willing to work with me. I don't want to blow any deal by going too low as to be unreasonable. Our last messages were as follows:
He offered:
Make: 2009 Honda
Model: Accord LX 4 cylinder AUTO
MSRP: $ 22225
ePrice: $ 20200
I came back with:
Could we kindly revisit the figures you had previously provided me. Since reviewing info on Edmunds.com it seems that they have been lowered.
He came back with:
I would like to submit a second offer of $19950 including the destination fee.
I then wrote:
I appreciate your decreasing the selling price of the car by $250. Is this the lowest amount that you can go? Especially keeping in mind the $750 marketing support.
Last e-mail from him is:
You've asked me if that was the best I can do--what are you offering? When it comes to taking a loss for the dealership--I will absolutely go to my management team and make an offer on your behalf if I am sure there is a commitment from you.
Any thoughts on how low pricing is going in Long Island, NY? I have to get this done, yet don't want to slit my own throat!
Thanks!
Kaley
ar
Please, don't get that distraught over a few hundred bucks. I can't answer your question since I'm not in Long Island, but I would say offering invoice minus the marketing support from Honda would be a decent price.
EXL V6
Mileage 7431 Paid $21,300 Est Retail $23,500
Mileage 14,862 Paid $20,100 Est Retail $22,300
Mileage 22,293 Paid $18,950 Est Retail $21,000
EXL
Mileage 7880 Paid $18,800 Est Retail $20,800
Mileage 15760 Paid $18,100 Est Retail $20,000
Mieage 23,640 Paid $17,350 Est Retail $19,250
I say tell them you can offer $19,250. I don't know NY taxes, but why not go ahead and figure up what ind of "out the door" number would make you happy, subtract from there the taxes and fees you want to pay, and have that be your offer. Getting an 09 for a few hundred beneath invoice minus marketing support is your goal. I wouldn't walk away from invoice minus marketing support if you can get to that number and include "dealer fees' crap... because often, a dealer will get your price to $200 below invoice and then rape you with fees that really go nowhere but in their pocket. Goodluck!
my strategy was that I did my research on costs and then I told them the price I wanted to pay. i didn't care how they got to the price, I just wanted the total to be what I requested.
I found that the best two places on L.I. with regard to deals and courtesy were Honda City and North Shore Honda.
If you email me, I will give you the sales people I dealt with.
ps-
any dealer that says they are taking a loss is fulll of spit. they're not gonna sell a car at a loss.
2009 Honda Accord LX Sedan automatic *New prices as of Dec 11 2008
MSRP $22375
Dealer Cost $ 20608
(includes $250 advertising fund that ALL dealers on Long Island factor into their cost)
Factor to Dealer Marketing Support $750
Adjusted Dealer Cost $19858
What is wrong with this picture? Edmund's has not reflected this so called increase. Nor did Edmund's mention that the marketing support(advertising?) is now only $250. Is this for real or are they just upping the price. BTW, they know that I have been researching on Edmund's. So, it is easily verifiable. I don't get it.
Thoughts? My patience is starting to wear. I HATE being jerked around!
Thanks!
The other thing you mention, marketing support is indeed mentioned by Edmunds: "The invoice price does not include any fees that may be charged by the manufacturer to dealers in a particular area of the country, such as local advertising fees, dealer association fees, or docking and storage fees. Edmunds.com does not track or provide such local fees.
If a local fee appears on the invoice, it is an actual cost that the dealer paid to the manufacturer when buying the vehicle. In other cases dealers may choose to write in their own ad fees on the consumer sales contract. However, in either case these local fees are a part of the dealer's cost of doing business." source: Edmunds NOTE ABOUT ADVERTISING FEE'S
If the co-op advertising fee on Long Island is $250.00 and it appears on the invoice from the factory, you would have to adjuste you stated offer of invoice minus the $750.00 dealer cash, to: $19723.00. Remember, thats using your own words.
But, at least YOU understood what I was getting at. Exactly what you have written is what I offered. However, it seems that my offer differs from others in this forum. There are a few different invoice prices that are not what I am seeing on the Edmund's car pricing site.
I did end up offering $18,810. (rounded up a couple of dollars) which was not completely accepted. They suggested we discuss this further, etc.
Thanks again! I'll reply back once I have the final OTD price!
It appears from your username that you are a Honda dealer. While I appreciate the fact that you took the time to write, there are a couple of discrepencies in your statements.
First, Edmunds base invoice for a 2009 Accord LX is $19,553, not $20,223. Therefore, if you subtract the $750 marketing support, the total that I was asking was $18,810 (rounded up-actually it is $18,803).
You are correct that by going with invoice alone I did not include dest charge. In my many Honda experiences, that has always been included. Unless they put it into the backend and I completely missed it while evaluating the figures. It is possible.
Second, my greatest concern at this moment is that the dealership is telling me that all of a sudden (in the midst of negotiations) the 2009 Accords increased in price as of December 11, 2008 and that there was a $250 ad fee. Today was the very first that I have heard that one and I have been communicating with them since before the holidays! Edmund's does not indicate any of this whatsoever. In fact, the dollars shown through Edmund's pricing MSRP and invoice are completely different than that of this particular dealer. Also, none of the other dealers mentioned this increase either. This, I find very odd.
So, I thank you for your enlightening information. But, I do need to do a little more questioning and researching before I feel comfortable enough to purchase or lease another Accord.
Best regards to you.
That's exactly what I would do as well. After doing my extensive research to determine the invoice price, the dealer tells me, "Edmunds is wrong, there was a price increase a month ago", the net of that would gaurantee I would not buy until I had a chance to research that. I'm not saying the dealer is right or wrong, but it's information that I would have to check out first. If they're right, then I'd adjust my offer, but if they're wrong and it was just a line of crap to increase the price, I'd move on to another dealer.
Shouldn't matter to you regardless.
I think that $18,800 is too low an offer for the LX, if you are not adding on the destination charge- which is legit, (but of course negotiable), based on numbers I have seen (I am still checking pricing on-line at various boards even though I already bought my car). With the dest charge, you'd be around $19,500 which makes a bit more sense, give or take a couple of hundred buck). If you are looking at $18,800 (and that does factor in the dest charge, than you are offering around $18,100 for the car - I don't see how anyone is going to sell at that price..)
However, you have a price that you want to pay ($18,800), than offer it. If they accept, great. If not, and you don't want to increase it; there are many other dealers on L.I. and, for that matter, many other brands of cars .
I would suggest however, that you look at the LX-P... a few add'l bells and whistles and the dealers might be willing to be more malleable-
Honda did indeed raise the prices on all Accords across the board (it would have been nice if someone told me!!!). For example, Edmunds still shows the MSRP for the 2009 Accord LX at $22225.00 but if you look at Honda's web site, you'll find the MSRP is now $22375.00 (after adding the ever-present destination charge). This got me up and out of my chair to check my own invoice vs. MSRP on a recent shipment from the factory. I found a 2009 LX which has been on the lot for eight days. I pulled the invoice and found the invoice price increased $200.00 while the MSRP went up $150.00 :mad: :confuse: :mad:
In the last 30 days I was aware that Honda raised invoice and MSRP on the Fit and the Civic but I was unaware the Accords were involved in the increase. So, I have checked MSRP from Honda vs. what I have and there was a $150.00 across the board increase in MSRP and $200.00 across the board increase in invoice.
Further research on my part shows EVERY new Honda had a price increase :mad: :mad: CRV's went up $150.00 ($200.00 invoice), Elements up $100.00 ETC....
My advice to you is make sure the car you're looking has the MSRP of $22225.00 and not the new $22375.00. That invoice will be $200.00 less then the current one. The advertising fee; you have to pay it. As stated in previous post it is a LEGIT charge.
Now I get to go correct everyones price book. Great another all day task!
A couple things:
1) In today's business climate, I simply cannot believe that a car manufacturer would raise the prices of its cars to dealers, without a corresponding increase in rebates/givebacks/whatever. So technically Honda may have raised the "price" of the Accord, but the dealer isn't paying a dime more, net-net. In fact, interest rates have come down, and this is the worst car-buying market in years, and manufacturers have huge inventories, so if anything, the dealers are paying less. Just another dealer game to make you feel good about buying. Sorry to be so cynical.
2) Don't get caught up in the rebate/holdback/bonus/cashback game. That's the game the dealers want you to play, and they have the home field advantage. It's just a psychological tactic they're trained to play to make you feel comfortable signing on the dotted line(s). If they know you're playing that game right along with you, they can wear you down, beat you down, then they have the upper hand. And don't play the "monthly payment" game either.
Remember that not only is the "dealer invoice" not a true indication of the net cost to the dealer of a car, but that we as consumers (no matter how good we are at Googling) can never know how much a dealer actually makes on a car.
So the only thing that should matter to us as consumers is the bottom line. I don't care how the dealer gets to the number, I just want the best number, and I need a high degree of confidence that no other fees will be thrown in there at the last minute to increase the "out the door" price. And I make sure that the the dealer knows that I will walk away from the deal if the numbers are off at all.
So first, decide exactly what car you want, what trim level, what accessories, warranties, etc. Wait til the end of the month then call around to all the dealers within a reasonable distance and say "I'm buying a blue Accord EXL (or whatever) by the end of the month and I'm going to buy it from the dealer who gives me the best price by the close of business on [the day before the last day of the month], so I need to speak to someone who can give me your dealership's very best price." It turned out that the best price I got, almost $1,000 lower than the next best price, was from a dealer that was mentioned on this Board.
I hope this helps! Good luck.
Each of your points were very clear and concise. I, too, agree with #1 which is why I was questioning it. With #2, after reading and learning about the "art of negotiating" I never truly looked at it from the other side. Of course the dealers know that we are researching (most of us anyway). You put this in great perspective for me.
And, most importantly, since this is not an "emotional" decision for me. One in which I don't mind walking away from, I will take your advice and rework my own numbers and start from the beginning with each dealer.
I thank you for your time in writing and explaining this information to me. It is greatly appreciated and extremely useful. Once a deal is struck I will write again to let you know how I made out. The only thing I need to remember is that patience is a virtue
Thanks again!
You're not cynical - you're just WRONG. Feel free to come and look at the books, prices went up for dealers and consumers.
And by "books", you mean the published prices that salespeople use to calculate their commissions, right? Or the books that show the so-called "dealer invoice" (which we all know is fiction)? You don't mean "books" as in financials, i.e balance sheets, profit/loss statements, cashflow statements, which would (or should) give a more complete picture of the relationship between a car dealership, manufacturer, and finance company. I'm guessing not too many people see those financials.
Any "price" increase in December by Honda is nothing more than a marketing tactic - "Look I'm giving you this car for $100 under invoice! OK if you buy today I'll make it $200 under invoice!! " or (in March) "We just dropped the price of Accords!" It's a marketing tactic like any other, to distract the buyer from the more relevant terms of the deal. It's all part of the game.
In the last year or so I have been sharing information here I have been very straight forward with this community. I share incentives before they are publised here or anywhere. I have broken down true net costs several times and have also provided advice on how to score a better deal.
As I said, since you're an expert when it comes to dealership workings, I'm just going to sit back and let you continue to share your misinformation with those who value insight. Good luck
And I'm not claiming to be an expert. My only relevant experience is that 1) I just bought a 2009 Accord a couple weeks ago, and thanks to someone on this board, I got what appears to be a pretty good deal ($2,100 under the so-called dealer invoice), so I'm hoping I can help others do the same. And 2) I'm in Sales (software, not cars) so while shopping for and buying my car, I witnessed firsthand (and immediately recognized because they're so obvious!) the best and worst sales techniques out there, and I was just hoping to help others recognize what those tactics are, how not to fall for them, and how to get the best deal.
Peace.
I have been shopping for my 09 Accord Coupe since early December - the price never changed and dealer incentives GOT BETTER on 1/3/09
I pulled the trigger and ordered my 09 Accord Coupe V6 EX-L 6 Speed w/Navi in Belize blue/black on 1/4/09 for $27.7k (inc dest) or $1200 under invoice.
Buying a Honda right now is real simple - get the invoice from KBB.com or Edmunds.com and shoot for $1000 or so below- you will get at least that.
OK...I'm done complaining. Now, I'm ready to deal again, but I'm LEASING @ 12K per year for 36 months. On an Accord EX or EX-L can someone tell me where my monthly paymernt 'should' be on a lease? Given that the dealer and the salesperson have to make a buck, but not too much. I'm in SE MI (North of Detroit area). I am also looking at a Malibu 2LT and a Milan I4 Premier but both prices are @ $300/mo even with $2000 out of pocket. Thanks for any help.
This forum is great in a way that we let each other know how much we really paid for the car. I'm in NM and just got an 09 LX-P for 20k flat excluding tax/lic. I think that was $$$ below their "invoice". As others have already articulated, you need a lot patience to deal with the dealers. But with some perseverance, you will get what you want in due time.
Vehicle Price $19,450.00
Sales Tax $1215.63
Documentary Fee $50.00
Title Fee $58.80
License Plates $60.80
Inspection Fee $23.75
Full Deputy Fee $5.00
Dealer's Inventory Tax $49.17
Your Drive out Price $20,913.14
I don't know what the last 2 line items are before the drive out price but I don't care. I only care about the drive out price. I have not bought it yet.
This drive out price is in line with another post I read here recently saying the driveout price should be around the MSRP. I don't know if this is true but now it seems so based on this quote.
Based on one or two other posts I think I can maybe get it for $500 less but what do you think of this offer? Of course the offer is supposed to be good thru Monday but I'm not worried about that. Can I get a better deal if I offer cash?