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2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • combilecombile Member Posts: 1
    Do you mind share the purchase price details? Thanks a lot.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    edited February 2013
    this country is still in economic despair - in case you haven't noticed - and divorce, foreclosure, credit card issues, and a host of other problems negatively affect the majority of this country's personal credit scores

    I thought I was pretty well versed in the logic behind credit score calculations. I am still trying to figure out how divorce affects it. I see it mentioned a few times, by different people. But, how is divorce affecting the credit rating?

    Credit rating is based on the past record of paying bills on time, income to debt ratio and a few other finance related categories. There is no rating for being single, married, divorced, or otherwise.

    Do people stop paying their financial obligations when they go through divorce? That I can see hapenning, where one or both parties, out of spite, stop paying back the loans. But, divorce, in of itself should not affect one's credit score.

    When someone gets married, their credit scores do not magically get higher just because they got married. Why should they magically drop when someone is divorced. Unless, of course, they are being spiteful and fail to complete their financial obligations.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    blueiedgod can you please explain why so I can contact the dealer and let them know that I am unhappy.

    First of all. Are you unhappy? Or are you unhappy because some annonymouse person on the internet told you that you are unhappy?

    If you are perfectly happy paying $40,020 for an Accord EX (hopefully it is a V6 at that price), then you should not contact them.

    If you can't figure out where $40,020 came from, and don't care to know, then you don't need to contact them either.

    I am not going to tell you that you are unhappy, if you are perfectly happy.
  • huskerfan5huskerfan5 Member Posts: 165
    You answered your question in your last paragraph. When they decided to get a divorce, my cousin's wife charge $30K on their joint AMEX card, knowing her prominent attorney husband would pay the bills.
    The lease for the car my wife drive's is in my name. Do you think she would start making the payments if she split.
    Fortunately, I went through an amicable divorce in my first marriage but I have heard horror stories. Be careful with joint credit.
    And don't forget that alimony and child support can cause financial hardship.
    Please stick with auto purchase comments in this forum.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    You answered your question in your last paragraph. When they decided to get a divorce, my cousin's wife charge $30K on their joint AMEX card, knowing her prominent attorney husband would pay the bills.
    The lease for the car my wife drive's is in my name. Do you think she would start making the payments if she split.
    Fortunately, I went through an amicable divorce in my first marriage but I have heard horror stories. Be careful with joint credit.
    And don't forget that alimony and child support can cause financial hardship.
    Please stick with auto purchase comments in this forum.


    That was my question. How is marital status relevant to the Credit history and the subsequent auto purchase. Thank you for clarifying it, and confirming what I had originally thought. It is completely IRRELEVANT.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    i was trying to get price quotes on the Accord LX CVT, and i tried via cars.com, edmunds.com, carwoo.com, but i haven't received any decent price quote. They are sneding me their automated "e-price" quote that is around 20100+790 dest which is pretty bad, any suggestions (like any other websites or something), thanks.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    edited February 2013
    i was trying to get price quotes on the Accord LX CVT, and i tried via cars.com, edmunds.com, carwoo.com, but i haven't received any decent price quote. They are sneding me their automated "e-price" quote that is around 20100+790 dest which is pretty bad, any suggestions (like any other websites or something), thanks.

    Have you tried www.carsdirect.com or American Express car buying service?

    Perhaps it is the going price. What are you looking to pay?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Once again, Brian I can tell you really don't know the business like you think you do.

    You wrote.." What dealer wants a 5 or 6 yr (old) car??????????????"

    Actually those are the ones in the greatest demand. A nice 5 year old car that is a popular model are in very high demand. We would take those cars, detail them to perfection, run them through a 105 point inspection and do whatever reconditioning was necessary. We couldn't get enough of them. If they did happen to need any of those items you mentioned, we would do the work and show the buyers what we did.

    We would even sell nice ten year old and older Hondas and Toyotas.

    We would NOT keep Audis, Land Rovers, Volvos or Volkswagens. These we would take to the auctions or wholesale them. Years of experience caused these decisions to be made. We didn't need the headaches or unhappy customers. On rare instances we would perhaps make an exception but we never kept a Land Rover or an Audi.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Your email quotes will only get you so far with pricing. To secure your best deal You need to negotiate One on One with either internet manager or sales manager by phone letting them know you will buy immediately with a credit card deposit the last days of this month.
    Your other option is on feb,28th go visit several dealers and make your best deal.
    You will never find a good price the way you are going about your business.
    you have no leverage the way your trying to buy this accord.
    read my prior post and do what i'm saying and you will secure your best deal in your area.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited February 2013
    Well thats great news your telling me. Most be something new. I guess the dealership you worked at was one of the very few who gave that trade in car a good value. Like i posted.. Over the many years i have inquired about a trade in from time to time All my cars are garaged kept nothing needed to be replaced or fixed. dealers never offered me fair market value. Why is that?? My cars are in demand.

    My neighbor down the block tried to trade in his 3, 1/2 yr lexus. The dealership felt mabey this old guy is stupid enough and told him the best he could do was about 8 thousand less than book. Just not a demand car i guess.

    I'm assuming i really dont know this car business like you.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited February 2013
    That's more than $2300 off the list price. Sounds pretty good to me.

    Invoice on an LX CVT is about $21300+. You are getting a below invoice price on an all-new car that's winning awards and comparison tests. Go for it. Enjoy!+++
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • jimmytulsajimmytulsa Member Posts: 48
    edited February 2013
    The dealer is out there to rip you off on the trade-in. Keep haggling and he may give you addl $500.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Not yet, but will try. I know Anderson offered me the $19, 579 plus $790 destination. They are kind of far from me. I am in PA. Will contact managers as Brian suggested. My target OTD is $21.5 but if I get it for an extra $300 I would consider. We will see.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Dealers use NADA pricing or Galves prices.All low ball figures. Every now and then a dealer will advertise a trade at kbb price. If your not selling your car privately at 4/5/6 yrs dont expect top dollar. Hopefully you may get a fair price from the dealership.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Brian, I hate repeating myself but dealers pay what they think the trades are worth and rarely stick to "book" prices.

    Then, unlike private sellers, they have to consider the costs of reconditioning the trades, doing detail and minor dent rempval and touch ups if necessary.

    If you don't like what you are offered, SELL IT YOURSELF! You might get lucky or you might get stuck dealing with flakes, joyriders, people who never show up etc. A lot of risks involved.

    Also, in many states there is a sales tax credit on the value of trade in's. This can be substancial if the trade is worth a lot.
  • noselling1noselling1 Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2013
    Hi all,
    Just wanted to share a quote I got from College Park Honda. I dare anyone to beat it!
    2013 Accord LX CVT.
    Included
    199 doc,

    500 market adj. (they must been selling Ferrari before)

    995 mud guards, wheel locks.

    24964, BEFORE TTL!

    I could barely hold myself from laughing.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Try Anderson Honda. They are the only ones to give u an upfront price without the run around.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    LX msrp 23270 sell 20530
    sport msrp 24980 sell 22083
    ex msrp 26195 sell 22891

    Only 3 of 8 dealers responded to the carwoo request
    Prices are pre-tax and dmv fees but do include the maximum doc fee for my state
  • jimmytulsajimmytulsa Member Posts: 48
    Just got an offer of $24,900 for the car. I pay TTL of 3.25% myself.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Where are you located? What dealerships are giving u these prices? Thanks
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    this is an update to my earlier post. Sorry for leaving out a couple details:

    LX msrp 23270 sell 20530
    sport msrp 24980 sell 22083
    ex msrp 26195 sell 22891

    Sadly, only 3 of 8 dealers responded to the carwoo request
    Prices are pre-tax and dmv fees but do include the maximum doc fee for my state (Ohio)

    Surprised at the poor response in SW Ohio. We have about as many Honda dealerships as fat chix in this area. Guess they still feel in control of the Accord supply/demand situation, for now...
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    ?

    Those prices look good to me. What do you mean about poor response....?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    When going thru the initial carwoo process, they force you to select a minimum # of dealers for the bidding process. Initially, I selected 5 dealerships that i was familiar with in my area. I excluded 2 dealers that i knew were scumbags based on prior experience in 2010. The carwoo robot required me to select an additional 3 dealers to bring the total number up to 8. Of the 8 selected, only 3 responded. While i agree that the prices i posted are excellent (my view), it would have been better to get additional bids so i would have more than one dealer to choose from. The process evolved over 2 weeks with very easy communication back-and-forth via the carwoo web site. I really liked that part. This was a beta project for me as i wanted to see how/if the process works and it does. It is free to try for one vehicle (unless you have multiple e-mail accounts), so why not...
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited February 2013
    I think many dealers who are outside of someone's immediate area don't bother to respond to these price quote requests from sites like Carwoo. I got about the same response level you did, but like you still got a good price.

    Basically through Carwoo and other things like it customers are getting low prices on a hot product. Many dealers probably figure they can sell a 2013 Accord for a higher price than it would take to get a sale thru Carwoo. Nothing wrong with that.

    When a Honda dealer decides to practically "give away" a car at below invoice, I think they are hoping to make it back and make some money on the trade, the extended warranty, and the accessories.

    But some Honda dealers don't want to give away an all-new best-in-class award-winning car. They want to make some money on it. Fair enough!

    But there are enough Accords around that those of us who are looking for a good price can find one. You don't need 8 good quotes. All you need is one good quote.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    I will say the opposite. I got my best quotes so far from dealers far away via Edmunds. The lowest is Anderson and then a dealer in PA that isn't close to me. My local dealer claims like every other dealer that they will match my lowest offer but I am still waiting for the carwoo qquotes to come in. We will see.
  • caryccaryc Member Posts: 1
    to isellhondas, you are dishonest, I bought a 2013 honda accord v6 in november for 27999, i posted all this information on this forum but under forum name carcam123, forgot my password. Just look me up anyone in this forum from those dates. I know my price was good for the time, but better can be had now. Weymouth honda in mass. will give you internet pricing if you simply log in. I did use this official quote to e mail several dealerships in my pennsylvania area. None of them in my area wanted anything to do with me, Ray Price honda in the poconos was able to give me this price. the 27999 price was beforee ttl. but included destination fee. The list on this car was 31000. isellhondas guy is full of you know what. I was completely ready to drive to boston to get my car. Ray price was direct and forthcoming and truthful, so i only had to drive 100 miles.. to anyone buying honda. Just get official quote from weymouth just by logging in at there website. You will get excellent price right off bat. either buy from them, or use it to compare/ shop at nearer dealership. Brian125 is completely and positively correct, I dont know who he is, and i have never used forums before, but his advice is excellent. If you look back in this forum, you will see my post as carcam123. from my experience, below invoice is achievable. my price was almost 2800 below list. For all those buying new honda, go to Weymouth honda website, register, and you will have actual price in your hand. Use it. It will infuriate your local honda dealer, but it is a price that brian123 will be proud of. It is possible to go lower. Read all posts in this forum and you will learn alot. isellhondas is trying to say that 1000 below invoice is impossible. That is not true. I did not quite get below invoice in november, but I did get fantastic price. Read everything in this forum for last 5 months. Use this information and all advice brian123 is giving. I have no idea who he is, but he is correct. Do not deal in person with any dealership. Find the internet manager, use Weymouth quote as actually available and move on from there. Just register in their website and you will see excellent price on any honda model, Hell just buy it from them. isellhondas go shove it
  • jimmytulsajimmytulsa Member Posts: 48
    edited February 2013
    $24,900 so far. I pay TTL
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited February 2013
    Hey folks, no need to be rude to anyone.

    Isell has a valuable perspective. Many here appreciate his point of view and insights, as well as his sense of humor and perspective.

    Yes, of course, he tilts toward the salesperson's side of things, because that was his job for many years—selling Hondas.

    But he points out many times, and accurately, that salespeople are people who need to make a living, just like we do, and who have feelings, just like we do.

    Some salespeople are unethical. Some customers are unethical. So there's bad on both sides. There's also good on both sides.

    Let's try here in our discussions to bring out the good.

    Yes, we want low prices, and that's the point of this thread. But it's compatible with being friendly and ethical to your salesperson and letting them make at least a small (or even medium) profit somewhere in the deal....

    Just my 2 cents.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " None of them in my area wanted anything to do with me"

    Gee, I wonder why?

    I also am wondering why I would respond to a name caller with third grade writing skills?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I appreciate the support!

    I really have no "dog in the fight" since I retired two years ago. Even when I was working I never used these forums to promote myself.

    I only try to temper some of the questionable advice that I read here.

    I want low prices on the items I buy as much as anyone else. I also want to be treated in an above board manner by a friendly, down to earth sales staff.

    When people focus ONLY on price they can find it a miserable procedure.
  • whatcar2buywhatcar2buy Member Posts: 35
    I am in the Philly area and I have been looking to buy a new car for some time. I was willing to wait for a while till the prices come down, and going by the prices posted in this forum recently I think people are getting way below invoice (I have seen 1000 - 1500 below invoice for the EX-L trims). I test drove an EX-L V6 and when the sales person asked if he wanted to talk numbers, I figured why not. I did my research, know the MSRP and invoice prices, what people were buying for here, the True Car estimates. I even have pre-approved financing from PenFed. His first quote was half way between invoice and MSRP. I told him, there's no point playing these games, and if you match my offer, I am ready to buy. I offered him 1000 below invoice (but was ready to buy slightly higher, rounding up the OTD price by a couple of hundred dollars). He comes back offering to sell at invoice price (there's the first wrong move, you just dropped your price by $1300 without any pressure). I stuck with my offer and walked out, he just missed a chance to do a quick sale.

    I was wondering if we should all go as a group and all offer to buy same day if we could get a good deal without any shenanigans ? Seriously, they would sell 3-4 cars in a day, no prolonged process and everyone's time is saved. No carwoo or true car, just pass on part of the savings to the customer.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    REF: 28638
    I also belong to penfed and looked up their car buying service for your deal:
    MSRP 30860
    estimated member price 27492 (excludes doc fees and dmv fees)
    for comparison:
    weymouth price 27339 (same exclusions)
    So, what did you offer and what did he come back with? FWIW, I find invoice prices useless since they do not reflect true dealer cost...
  • whatcar2buywhatcar2buy Member Posts: 35
    MSRP: 30,860. Invoice: 28,300. The first price he quoted was $29,600 (I literally did a face-palm when I saw that quote, may be I was being too naive and optimistic about dealers not playing games for a quick sale). I told him I did my research, there is public information about what people are paying and that this price was way too high. He asked me for my offer.

    My offer was $27,300 (but I was ready to go up by another $ 200 if he could find my color choice and do the deal quickly). The penfed member price in my area is $28,200. The doc fees in this area is usually around $130. Is your member price in Ohio ? I would have made the purchase if someone offered me that price here in the Philly area with the color I wanted.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    This where I stand now. $19,479 plus $790. Doc fee waived by dealer. I am trying to see if myllocal dealer will beat the price by $100 as they claim. If they do I will buy. I am also pre approved by PENFED.

    I was also going to wait but since we may need that second car by next week. Plus giving the price I am getting. I will most likely buy it now. Specially if they beat it by $100. Plus they offer a 7yrs or 100K miles at no cost they claim.

    I am in the Lehigh Valley area. Not sure if they will go any lower or if they will match t at this point. My suggestion is try Weymouth price and Anderson Honda. Not sure about your invoice. Let me know I will consider buying w someone else. I don't have a trade.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    REF: 28640
    I logged into my penfed account and then went to the car buying service. Price of 27492 is for the SW Ohio area. Surprised it is ~$700 more in your area. Yet the weymouth price up in Boston is even lower. Hmmmmm.
    BTW, have you researched the problem SOME are having with the VCM on the V-6 Accord?
  • jimmytulsajimmytulsa Member Posts: 48
    Any CVT issues experienced in the 4-cylinder?
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited February 2013
    Carcam,
    I read your comments thanks for the support and i'm glad i helped you save a few dollars. The main thing is you recieved a good deal. Use what ever excellent advise you took from me and help other buyers down the road.Thats all i ever asked anyone to do in these forums the last 15 yrs.

    I keep on posting in this honda forum i now the market is hard right now to get that knock out deal were all looking for. I tried last month and i used 5 states to judge the market.

    Above poster is correct MR BEN you are buying a great vehicle and 95% of you will not get 1000 plus below invoice this month. If your ready to buy make your best deal using my price guide North East. By all means try to get that knock out price first. Then settle on your best price. If time is on your side wait another month.

    My prior post til stands you need to buy the last day of this month. The market price is 400 to 875 below invoice on most models plus Doc fee's. The Lx and lower end models are selling cheaper.... Dealers have alot more on there lots.. Maybe if you contact the right dealer at months end you might be able to take one off there lot cheaper than i posted. The harder part for you is finding that one or two dealers who will sell it

    You can lead a Camel to water put you cant make it drink.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    REF: 28641
    Talk about a squeeze play. We may have to call you "brian126"
    20.3k + zero doc + ttl is an excellent deal. Add in the great financing: "Limited Time Offer: .49% APR for 48 months." I don't see how you do any better.

    FWIW, anyone can join PENFED; you don't have to be military affiliated. For the genpop, the most it will cost is a one-time fee of $15 to join thru an affiliate. you could save hundreds either using the car buying service or the very low auto loan rates.

    "Most everyone else can become a member through a one-time $15 donation to Voices for America’s Troops."
  • whatcar2buywhatcar2buy Member Posts: 35
    LOL, my thoughts too. Do you still get that .49% rate after getting the pre approved draft at 1.49% ?

    @mvperez4jesus: That's a great price for the car in the area, if your local dealer even matches it, just pull the trigger and be thankful for PenFed.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    The 0.49% APR rate is online only. If you have money, their CD rate is 1.90% APR for a 4 year CD. You can actually make a net gain (post-tax) on the car loan, just like the old days...
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Wait, my PenFed thing is for 1.49% for 60 months. The 0.49% is if u use their online buying service, which I haven't. I may try to see how it works. Maybe I can squeeze that rate.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    If my local matches it, i will be there in no time. I call penfed to qualify and then they asked me if i had a family member that it was in the military.

    my half brother i said, but i was honest and told them i didn't know where he was (last time was in italy). I also have a cousin but she said it was fine.

    I didn't pay the $15 joining fee, so, i only gave $5 for my new penfed account. U can't beat it.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited February 2013
    You guys are really working on something here!!!!

    In the nyc area pen fed svc was $590 below invoice.

    If i was to change my zip code to boston or M.d would i be entitled to that price there giving me????????????

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • mortiennemortienne Member Posts: 30
    "Brian, I hate repeating myself but dealers pay what they think the trades are worth and rarely stick to "book" prices."

    Had to jump in and reply to this with my own experience. I had a Hyundai Genesis Coupe a year or so back. Had it for 2 years and really didn't get on with it. At the time I decided to get rid of it, it was booked at $19,500 and I owed $17,500. I wanted a C-class MB and trotted off to the local dealer. I could tell straight away they didn't like my trade at all. Their offer? Full price for the MB and $15,000 for the Hyundai.
    Someone at work mentioned that the Infiniti place over the mountains (3 hours in summer, 5+ in winter sometimes) had a reputation for selling good used sports cars, coupes, convertibles, etc. I hadn't really considered an Infiniti as the dealer was so far away but I have a soft spot for them as I used to sell them. Gave them a call, described the car and chatted about my needs. Long story short, $23,000 for the Hyundai, a G37x with premium and tech packages stickered at around $43,000 for $39,000.
    In short, isellhondas is spot on. The dealer will pay what the trade is worth to them. BTW, when I was selling, we would usually offer the "poor" condition price on KBB regardless of actual condition unless it was something we wanted for the lot. If the trade value was really the hot button issue, we would bump it and grab back money elsewhere in the deal.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    I just checked my PenFed target price for my area is $21,293. So, is about $1,000 more than what i have = no savings at all. I wouldn't mind if they were willing to go as low as i got, but othe than that, no point. I will let u all know what i do at the end. Waiting for dealer to respond, thanks.
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Brian, i m not using PenFed for that purpose, but i just checked and the price dosen't vary at all between PA and MD where i have the offer from. So, not sure if it is worth the shot. But hey, we have nothing to lose to see if they can come down in pricing.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    I never trade my cars back to the dealers. I keep my cars in great condition and well maintain. I'm sure some people do get a good trade in.. but most people do not. Just the way your business works.

    Buying a new car is one of the worst investments you could make. Depreciation values/// repairs. Then to short change yourself on a trade in crazy. Unless the vehicle is a mess/ needs work or you dont like to sell on your own trade it in. Take what you can get.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Thanks.......... didn't know how it worked with pen fed

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Me either, I am just learning. Also, keep in mind that the other thing is that once u seal the deal. The dealership has to fax them the buyers order. Then they mail u a check that can take a few days 3-4. Unless u pay them the $15 for next day shipping for the check.

    In that topic a question for all and perhaps isellhonda can help. If I show up to a dealer on the 28th (end of the month). I make the deal, I give a deposit and leave because I now have to wait for the PenFed check for like 4 days or so. Would that deal be considered under the end of the month? Or will it technically be under March? Just curious to see if that might lead to a better deal.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited February 2013
    If the deal is RDR'd (the car is sold) on the 28th than it'll count for February.

    I've never heard of PenFed but it just sounds fishy like so many other Johnny Come Lately finance companies that have come and gone.

    MAKE SURE they issue a CHECK and not a DRAFT. A draft comes with strings attached and they can be near impossible to fund.

    I do have to chuckle about buying a car on the last day of the month being the way to save the most money. Dealers will often tell you things that encourage that myth such as..." Hey, it's the last day of the month and we are three cars short of making a bonus"!

    Sometimes that's true but usually not.

    Again, when you see an interest rate that is way below what other lenders are charging you should really be paying attention.

    No free lunch....ever!

    Good Luck!

    EDIT: Read the Yelp reviews on Pen Fed and other review sites.
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