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Comments
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
1. On EVERY car buying forum i have been on, Invoice price has always been what the dealer pays the manufacturer PLUS destination. Look at the main Edmunds page (Not the forum). Research a car and at the end they list invoice price as what dealer is known to pay the manufacturer for the car PLUS destination fees. This is the same on Truecar, carsdirect and most all other sites. Doc fees are not listed at this stage. That right there IS ALL i was saying. When talking about invoice price ON THE FORUMS, FOR THE SAKE OF CONSISTENCY, leave it at what dealer pays plus destination fees. That's it. Nothing more implied than that!
2. On post 31061, i clearly state that OTD is what matters the most. Matter of fact here is a direct quote: "However, you can and MUST consider Doc fees when talking about OTD prices. "
I am not a "newbie" when it comes to buying cars. In over 20 years of doing this, only a hand full of times did i find a dealer willing to budge on Doc fees. How do you make them eat some of that fee? Well, in my experience, you have 2 choices: (a) Ask them to reduce the selling price of the car by the same amount. Most dealers will resist this and many will let you walk instead of reducing it. (b) Load up on accessories and get them for "free" or at least a reduced price. In my experience, most dealers WILL do this. Therefore, if a dealer does not bend on a $400 Doc fee but you are able to get $300 in accessories for "free", you essentially just paid $100 for their Doc fee.
Please lets move on from this. I buy multiple cars a year based on OTD pricing only. I do my research here and other places and know how much Doc fees are. I know exactly how much i am willing to pay OTD based on all factors i.e invoice, doc fees, etc. However, when i am on a forum talking about how much below invoice i got, i stick to convention and use what the dealer paid PLUS destination to come to that figure. For the 4th or 5th time, i hope this explanation ends this debate. I know Doc fees must be considered when talking about the final OTD price. I just don't agree that a varying rate like Doc fees should be used on the forums when comparing how much under invoice members are getting.
Some people have no choice, based on geography, but to pay higher doc fees.
Don't like it? Buy from a state that caps the fees, work to get the fees capped in your own state or negotiate the price to minimize the hit.
Moving on....
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Well said..... as long as fx can secure that same selling price of 24,500 who cares how he arrived at that price. His system may work very well but seems alot more work getting that final OTD number instead of lowest selling price first, with doc fees already in the mix.. I find and this is just me buying like that leaves dealerships to many openings for game playing and to time consuming for me. This is what makes these forums like no others. Use what works best for you that helps you obtain the lowest price possible.
OTD pricing is doc fees, your states dmv, and taxes, NY/NJ has a small state tire recycle fee of 7. 50 and 10.00
Once i agree on price with any dealership with doc fees accounted for in my price.
This is my next question to dealers on the phone
Outside of your doc's, dmv, and taxes do you have any other chargers? Deal is now complete.
Fxguy wants to move on not realizing his posts will help some people in here get a better deal.
FX............. thankyou for sharing. your points are well taken.. There is no right way and wrong way to buy. Use forum tips and advice to your advantage to make the best deal.
Just imagine all the older folks, uneducated buyers in Florida paying that $699 doc fee/ admin charge with out a fight.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I'm wondering if I can add a warranty tomorrow? They offered a 200.00 warranty for (think 5 years?) for any damage I might do to a wheel. (I tend to scrape them on curbs.) Does anyone know?
All the discussion on doc fees? Doc fees are standard, I don't think the dealer is making a dime on this, so what's the concern?
I paid 699.00 as a dealer fee, that seems hefty, but the Honda dealership I've now bought two Accords from has a set price (like CarMax) and they don't negotiate.
Learned that I good deal with the EX-L 4 cylinder with leather at 26,882.00, so I'm pleased.
Also, I HAVE 5 DAYS TO RETURN THE CAR! Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? I asked why and they said some people have 'buyers remorse' or think they can find a better deal etc... I think that's amazing. They sold 15 Hondas yesterday by the time we left at 5 p.m.
Any ideas about buying the wheel warranty after the fact?
Thanks everybody, I LOVE my new Accord!
Kit
I would also like to read the fine print on that 5 day return policy. That is way too good to be true. There have to be strings attached.
What exactly makes up the $26,882?
I do not want to burst your bubble but I bought my Alabaster silver EX-L a couple of weeks ago for $24,998 with an additional $500 discount called flex cash (for financing through Honda). My dealer doc fees were $298 here in MA.
I read up a lot of info on this forum for nearly 2 months before pulling the trigger.
Enjoy your ride.
I know doc fees in NY is cap at $75 and NJ is no limit from $300 to $500.
I see many posts indicate the OTC price is what we care about and I agree. Does anyone know what are the typical DMV & other fees charge by NY or NJ dealer.
I am in Florida and I cannot seem to get a 2013 for less than $27,800 OTD plus I can likely get the flex cash. This includes dealer options. I have talked online to many dealers in town and out of town. Our tax is 7% and the only way to get around doc fees (they are high here about $599-$899) is to negotiate a better price. Can you both break down your deals with sale price, taxes, fees, tag/title etc. Also, were there any dealer options in your EXL 4 cylinder? This would be so helpful to me. The best deal I have been offered on a 2014 is $28,600 out the door with mud guards, side panel protectors, mats, nitrogen tires, trunk protector. I would appreciate your help! Thanks!
To better help you, can you break down your price by providing the following information as follows:
Sales price:
Doc fees (dealership with the best sale price):
Any incentives?
Cost of dealer add-ons:
Title and registration fees:
Do you want the car with specific dealer add-ons?
Have you specifically asked dealerships whether they have flex cash for the 2013 models? You might be better off negotiating a deal at the end of the month on a 2014 model.
If you have not already done so, read up previous posts on this forum on how to get the best deal. You can apply some of the advice I posted in this thread #31033 (http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef006d2/31032#MSG31032).
Good luck.
This is a 2013 Accord EXL 4 cylinder. I really want the 2014 so I am trying to negotiate this deal first and then push for the 2014 for just a few hundred more. I am unsettled about this purchase so I keep waiting.....maybe for the end of the month. I have already had one dealer offer $28,619 OTD for a 2014 and it included (wheel locks, nitro, door guards, mats, trunk tray, mud guards and OEM tire change to the ones we prefer).
FIRST OFFER FROM THIS DEALER on 2013:
Base Price: $24,266
Protection Package: $1695 (Splash guards, wheel locks, cargo tray, nitro, pin-striping, door guards)
Tax 7%
Tag (not sure exactly)
Dealer Fee $599
Color we want and tires changed to the OEM tires we want
I told this dealer that I could get this price all day long for a 2013 and he came back with $28,000 OTD instead and that he could shave off probably a few hundred dollars more. I can also get the flex cash off the $28,000 so I am at $27,500 with flex cash for now but still negotiating.
Correction, the dealer just left me a voice mail and he said the $28,000 OTD (see break down) includes the $500 flex cash. He did say that he thinks they won't walk away from a few hundred dollars more but that is it.
So, I am OTD I guess at $27,700 ish and that is about all I can seem to get out of these dealers.
ps. I realize that the option price he quoted is crazy and I think I need to ask him to delete them and then just pick the ones I want at the price I feel comfortable with.
You stated your base price for a 2013 Accord EX-L was $24,266. Does that price include the $790 destination fee? If you are not sure, ask the dealer. If it includes the destination fee then that is $2133 below an invoice price of $26,399. If it does not include the destination fee, then that is only $1343 below invoice. That is just an okay deal at this time of the year.
For the protection package, you did not say whether you wanted those options or if they came with the car already. If you want them added, you should negotiate the sale price with the dealership.
As for the other fees, again you need to ask the dealer to list them for you instead of just an OTD price.
"...I can also get the flex cash off the $28,000 so I am at $27,500 with flex cash for now but still negotiating..."
Did the dealer confirm that they have flex cash available?
Are dealer doc fees that high across all Honda dealerships in Florida? How many dealers have you reached out to? Are you dealing with sales managers or internet sales managers?
"...I really want the 2014 so I am trying to negotiate this deal first and then push for the 2014 for just a few hundred more...."
The above statement is a little confusing. If you really want a 2014 Accord, why not just negotiate the price of that model year instead of focusing on a 2013 model and hoping to get a steal on the 2014?
If you go to http://automobiles.honda.com/accord/ and build a 2013 Honda Accord, you can see the price of some of these accessories.
Splash guards - $104 (MSRP)
Wheel Locks - $56 (MSRP)
Trunk tray - $139 (MSRP)
Door Guard - $95 (MSRP)
I was not able to find any pricing on nitro and pin-stripping but they should not cost much.
So if I tabulate the total price of those 4 accessories, it comes to $394.
The nitro in the tires and the pin-stripping should not come to $1301 ($1695 - $394). Am I missing something?
Even if you add all season floor mats, they only cost $143 (MSRP). You should be buying those accessories at dealer's cost, if you want them added to the car.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
The protection package probably includes body side moldings too. The MSRP is for the parts and not the installation so you can't just look at MSRP for a price comparison, but we all know the mark-up on these things. I agree the package price is crazy, you could offer 1/2 if they are things you really want or pick and choose.
As much as I tried I couldn't squeeze a $1 off any options I wanted so I gave up with the dealer and the things I can buy over the internet I will and otherwise wait for a "sale" at the dealer if there is something I really want and try to negotiate then. Once I got the car, I realized the accessories I wanted I could live without and will probably get the weathertech floor liners instead of the honda mats for better protection against these new england winters.
Let us know the breakdown of the 2014 offer. Get them to give you the breakdown, saying OTD doesn't help much.
Just to add a few more points. You are correct about the accessories not including the installation prices, but no one should be charged installation for wheel locks, cargo tray and floor mats. Installing splash guards and door guards should not cost that much.
With regards to Flex cash, I think one contributor had stated that Honda was not offering any on the 2014 models.
I bought my OEM all season floor mats on Ebay for more than $20 less than the invoice price my dealer was offering. I also got free shipping, so check out Ebay or other online sites for deals on genuine Honda accessories.
Btw, how is your car? The only thing I do not like about my car is the ride. I think Honda needs better tires for the EX-L model. I will most probably replace them with a different brand when the time comes.
I like the car alot. I saw a warranty in my owners manual for Michelin tires and thought I had Michelin tires....until I saw I had Goodyear Assurance tires. Agree for the price the tires could be better. How long should those tires last? Probably something we could have negotiated, but I don't notice much. The ride is 10 times better than my old car.
I noticed 2 things. The fingerprints on the touchscreen drive me crazy (especially in the morning sun). They said to just use anything you would use on a computer screen to clean it. And there is no good place for loose change (there are places, but not anything officially for loose change).
If you don't like the ride, are you disappointed in your purchase? isn't that the most important thing? It took me a few days to acclimate to the change but now I love it.
I love the car with all its features, such as Forward Collision Warning (FCW), Lane Departure Warning (LDW), and all the cameras. I also enjoy driving in Sports mode. I have no regrets about my purchase. The Goodyear tires can be replaced so it is not a big deal, but I do notice a stiff ride once in a while when driving on bumpy roads.
Depending on your driving and braking habits, tires should last anywhere between 25,000 to 50,000 miles (I saw some info online about it). I am sure we could have negotiated that too but I am happy with the price I paid for the car.
Yes, a passenger in my car mentioned the stiff ride too. I didn't really notice enough to care.
I don't regret my purchase either. I love it.
You can browse the smaller technology manual for basic info about some of the features.
I agree, I should just focus on the 2014 so I have been at it all day. I was just hoping for a big difference for the price of the 2013 and I am just not getting it. The inventory on 2013s is pretty low.
I have negotiated with 8 dealerships. Some in my town, some outside. I have worked with both store managers and internet managers. Our dealer fees range from $599-$898.
Thank you for looking up the options. I found that earlier today too. I have two offers on the 2014 and I am finishing up the third. I had to go back to one of them. Once I have them all I will break them down and get the stamp of approval or not from you guys! Thanks for all of your help. I love this forum!
I've been reading the forums with interest and soaking up the information. Many thanks for all of the good stuff.
I will buy an Accord at the end of this month using multiple bids with internet sales. I'm still waffling between the EX or the EX-L (I'm a bit cheap, although I do like the leather seats). I'll figure that out by the weekend, I hope.
I am curious about getting a 2013 versus 2014. Conventional wisdom would suggest that the 2013 should be cheaper, but it sounds like inventory is low enough that the 2014 is only marginally pricier. Has anyone in the Los Angeles area received bids on both model years in the past couple of weeks (for either the EX or EX-L, ideally both)? If so, I would appreciate hearing about your experiences.
More generally, what advice would people have regarding bids? Should I ask dealerships for 2 bids, one for a 2013 and another for the 2014, with an explicit statement that I'll buy purely on price unless the 2 cars are within $500 of one another? Or, assuming the 2013 is still cheaper, should I just ask for bids on the 2013 to keep everything simple? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Ride is perfect to me.. Had friends say "its really smooth and is it a V6??because it fast!"
After my break-in period ill use (S) and paddle shifters to enjoy its full potential.
Your target price to buy a 2014 should start at 500 below.. See where your dealerships stand. Worst case they counter with invoice price.
2013 Accord 1400 to 2k below should be your target price on a 2013.
Contact dealers now hoping you could get a good price on a 2013. Negotiate with all dealerships thru this month til months end unless you get your targeted price to buy sooner.
If you get 1000 below invoice on a 2013 Accord opposed to Invoice price on a 2014 model you should go with the 2014 model.
1500 or more below on a 2013 model you should consider buying otherwise the 2014 will be the wiser choice.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
$28,269: Invoice (includes destination)
$27,250: Purchase Price (includes destination)
$599: Doc Fees
$27,849: Total
Here is the Out the Door breakdown:
$27,250.00 - Vehicle Price
1908.86 - State Tax
599.00 - Doc Fee
122.00 - Title Fee
0.00 - Splash Guards
$29,879.86 - Total Price/Drive Out
The second closest dealer came in at:
$27,700: Vehicle Price (includes destination)
$349: Doc Fee
$28,049: Total before tax and title
I price shopped 11 dealers over two weeks in metro ATL and even Greenville, SC as they seem to have lower doc fees for some reason. The dealership I bought this from started out at $29,267 so it took some work to get down to this number. They are manufacturing the car next week with arrival to the dealer around 10/2. White with beige leather. I'm hoping the crew in Marysville has an awesome week next week. Thanks for everyone's help on this board.
2014 Accord for $420 below. Plus $ 67 dollar mud guards for free.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Sparkndutch, I live on the west side, although travel to the east side of L.A. wouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the note about low inventory. Who did you visit - or better yet, who do you think still has the most inventory and felt the most amenable to bargaining? Any dealerships you'd absolutely avoid?
Brian, thanks for the price points for the 2 years. That's a really helpful place to start. My plan is to start calling at the end of this week.
As a side note, I had a great experience with an internet dealer when I bought my 2010 CR-V. It was zero BS and zero hassle (price quoted was price paid, no additional sales pitch when I showed up, and I learned after the purchase that he fought off a regular salesman to reserve the car for me). If he's reasonably close to bottom, I'll probably buy from him again and let him know why.
Thanks again. Any additional tips and info are definitely welcome.
I'm from Santa Clarita, so I was negotiating with dealerships north from the Palmdale/Lancaster to south San Fernando Valley.
I bought mine from Palmdale since they only had the color exterior on Sport trim level left. Great service and a killer deal!
I would highly suggest checking out Galpin Honda in San Fernando, speak ONLY to Chris S. he's the Internet Manager and was very helpful and I was close to buying from him but the color I wanted was sold literally a few hours after I left the dealership to sleep on the price (was going to buy the next morning lol)
I would ABSOLUTELY AVOID AutoNation Honda in Valencia. Had such a bad experience that I'm drafting a huge letter about the horrible service I received.
If you do end up going to Galpin Honda in San Fernando just tell Chris S, Enrique "The Marine" referred you to him. Maybe could get a free oil change = WIN-WIN! Lol
Are you going to wait till the end of the month to purchase or are you going to pull the trigger sooner if you get a good deal on the 2014 model?
If I do go with Galpin, I'll definitely mention "The Marine."
I can tell you one thing, once you drive a V4 powered Honda, you will never want a V6, or an I4. The 1983 (yes, 30 years odl by now!!!) Honda Magna that I had the pleasure of owning with a 6 spd sequential transmission (yup, seuqntial 6 spd in 1983!!!) went from 0 to 60 mph in 3 seconds!!!!! New cars like Viper, Corvette, and Porsche are just getting into this 3 seocnds to 60 realm. Honda was there 30 years ago!!!!
To this day, I still regret selling it. Honda does not make them anymore, and ones in good condition are selling well above their 1983 sticker price.
So, if you see a V4 powered Accord, just get it. You will not regret.