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Comments
28399.45 before taxes & tag
27,691.00 car
699.95 dealer fee (outrageous)
8.50 fee for something else
Thanks
I was going to say if you can negotiate the doc fees and lower it by a couple of hundred dollars, then you will have a great deal. Sometimes, dealers may not want to budge but I would give it a try. You are right; nearly $700 for doc fees is outrageous.
The 2014 buyer should be happy about this. Note theses area's where pricing is good.... Use it as your Negotiating leverage against other area dealers and out of state dealers. Tell that high volume dealership you will cross over the county line to buy from xxx dealership this is what he is selling for.
Last Oct 2012, til around April or May 2013 we started to see pricing at 1000 below invoice on a more consistent basis.
Guys all post should have what City your considering buying in. This helps move the board quicker for us to see regional pricing.
Have we seen any new pricing info on a 2014 model from NEW York, Or New Jersey yet??????????????????????
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
So, if you are in NYC and buy the car in NJ, you will pay 8.75% sales tax based on where you are registering, and will pay $300+ delaer fee based on where dealer is located.
If this is your first time buying a car in NYC, check your insurance. I haven't lived in NYC for over 10 years, but when I did, at the time, full coverage for a brand new 1999 Civic EX was $5,000/year, and that is with discount for parking under the building in a secured garage ($1500/month garage rent).
Owning a car in NYC is a pricey proposition.
Since there were only minor changes to the 2014 models (and a slight price increase compared to the 2013 models), and 2013 models are still in demand, do you think that is affecting dealer pricing for the 2014 models of at least $500 below invoice this early in the year (in some areas)?
It would be interesting to see what the pricing would be next April on the 2014 models.
You posted on tflats post he was at 852 below invoice. Correct.
Doc fees were 699 bringing his deal to 153 below invoice. Dealer lowered sale price of car to compensate his very high doc fee's .
Huskerfan was correct in saying if he was a dealership he would want to be located in a high doc fee area.
This is still a very good deal... Tflats.... secured a below invoice price taken back the dealerships high doc fee charge and cutting into the dealers hold-back on the 2014 model.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Did he/she say what state they were located to incur such high doc fees?
You are right. With pricing this good this early in the prior year will result in alot more sales for Honda... Honda may outsell the Camry next year at this rate. With honda's limited production this year its still pretty close in volume sales.
The Camry might be more than 1000 dollars less to Manufactor than the Accord. This results in toyota's willingness to sell alot cheaper and grabbing more sales.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
thanks in advance.
The doc fee in OH is $250
The best quote for Accord EX-L 2013 is $24,500 so far,
If dealer is not lying you have a good deal. Make sure when going over deal that destination charge of 790 was no excluded from that quote. Ask for all OTD pricing before you proceed to finalize this deal. Buying a 2014 is the right move.
Like leasing a vehicle you roll everything into the lease except the first payment.......... WHY??? if car is totaled or stolen you wont lose that money you put up front.
Same applies with the 2013 model.. If you total or car gets stolen Jan,1 2014 you will get the value of a 1 year old Accord not a 3 month Accord.
So How much below invoice is it worth buying a 2013.. I think 1500 below invoice may offset that cost of depreciation of 1 yr.
I would want close to 2k right now if i was buying a 2013 model this month.. Thats just me thou. i dont know how others feel about this.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I just noticed at the bottom of the e-mail that this price included ALL rebates, but I may not qualify for all of them. Time to make a phone call.
Thanks
OTD consists of
Doc fee
your states dmv charges
your states taxes
This is for the most part all your otd fee's.
Ny and NJ add a state recycle tire fee of.......... 7.50 and 10 dollars Some states may have small fee's like this.
Know your fee's???? So you dont get ripped off..
Know every dealers doc fee charge before you make your offer to buy. If you dont know how to go about doing this just ask and we will explain a easy way to learn dealers doc fee prices.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I'm new to this thread and am thankful for the good information. How do I go about learning dealers doc fee prices? I also live in Florida. Wouldn't all the dealer doc fee prices be the same? Once I understand this, then I'll need to tackle the various warranties that being discussed. Thanks for all you help!
Basically I am interested in knowing what is considered as a good price for
1) 2013 EX
2) 2014 EX
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
OTD consists of
Doc fee
your states dmv charges
your states taxes
This is for the most part all your otd fee's.
If only this were true in every state. :-)
Here in Colorado, the registration fees are not part of the "OTD" price when you buy a car. You have to make a separate trip to the local Motor Vehicle office to obtain your plates. The total amount paid includes the registration fee and an 'ownership tax', which for year 1 of registration is 2.1% of 85% of your base MSRP and decreases from years 2-5.
When I moved here 20 years ago from California, it was a bit of a surprise to learn this after I bought my first car. I was used to having everything rolled in at the dealer.
I don't know if other states set up their registration the same way, but it may be a bit of a shock to those who do to learn this.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
While it is true the dealer must show the doc fee on every contract, the reality is everyone does not pay the doc fee. The doc fee is nothing more than a part of the selling price of the vehicle. The selling price includes all dealer costs plus dealer profit. Only way to combat this scam, it is a legalized scam, is to reduce the selling price to compensate for the doc fee.
If permitted by state law, most dealers will use the doc fee tactic to make a buyer believe the price of the vehicle is less. Does anyone really believe it costs the dealer many hundreds to process a few pieces of paper?
Florida dealers are notorious for raising this scam to amazing levels. Check out Earl Stewart on Cars for information on how Florida car dealers have perfected this scam.
Truth is doc fees are legal due, in large part, to the large amounts of money dealers contribute to our elected officials. Does anyone believe those officials are working to protect the car buyer?
If a dealer quotes a selling price of $23,300 plus a dealer fee of $700, the dealer is really quoting a price of $24,000. That dealer is hoping the buyer will negotiate the $23,300. Smart buyers know better.
I do agree that doc fees are pure profit for dealerships, and to counter that we (buyers) have to negotiate a rock bottom sale price.
Apart from Brian125, I have not come across a lot of other forum contributors who were able to negotiate a rock bottom sale price and also avoid paying doc fees. If you are one of them, ken117, I might have to reach out to you in 5-10 years when I am ready to buy another new car
Pricing depends on a number of factors such as your location, supply and demand in your area, dealers inventory, etc...
My advice would be to read some of previous posts on how to go about negotiating your best deal and start reaching out to as many dealerships in your area now. If you call dealerships, ask to speak to the internet sales manager or sales manager (They are the decision makers). Do not let a sales guy trick you into coming into the dealership to get the best price. If they start playing games, move on to the next dealership.
If you are going to be emailing dealerships, here is the info you are interested in when asking for an online quote:
1. Sales price including destination fee (but without any incentives)
2. Dealer documentation fees
3. Title and registration fees (should be the same across dealerships, but you still want to know what it is)
4. Any current incentives
5. OTD - Out The Door pricing - It will list the price of the car, plus dealer fees, title and registration fees and taxes.
It is always best to be an informed buyer so that you can get the best deal possible.
Good luck and let us know how your search is going.
The minor effort the dealer expends to process these third party fees in minimal and nothing more than a service the dealer provides to customers as part of the overall selling approach.
With the advent of the Internet and sites like Edmunds, car buyers have become very knowledgeable about invoice prices, holdback, and incentives as well as the overpriced items dealers offer in the F&I office. As a result, dealer profits on the sale of new cars has fallen.
To combat this loss, dealers concocted the dealer fee scam. They hope buyers will concentrate on the dealer quoted selling price but ignore, to some extent, the dealer fees. Smart buyers really do view such fees as a component of the selling price.
Anyone posting a suggestion such fees are legitimate is most likely a dealer or a dealer advocate. The thing to remember is ALL dealer cost is part of the selling price. Any cost a dealer attempts to separate from the price is best viewed as a questionable dealer attempt to deceive the car buyer.
Personally, the first time I encountered a dealer fee was about 20 years ago at a Nissan dealer. I did not pay it then. The last vehicle I bought was a Ford, this year in Virginia. That dealer had a $500 dealer fee. After we settled on price, the dealer mentioned the additional $500 fee. I told the dealer I would walk if the deal was not adjusted to account for this fee. I am sure the sales person knew I was serious. The sales manager spoke with me and reduced the selling price by $250 and increased the trade value by $250.
No buyer should ever pay an additional doc fee without, at a minimum, making the dealer believe the buyer will walk if the price is not reduced to compensate for the doc fee. In most cases, the dealer has invested time on the sale. In most cases, the dealer will not let the buyer walk over the doc fee. In any case, what would be lost?
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Someone posted earlier that with sites like Edmunds.com, more and more car buyers are becoming knowledgeable about invoice pricing, dealer hold backs, flex cash and other incentives. Hence, dealers need to find another profit stream. If doc fees were capped in all states at not more than say $100, then dealers would not be getting bad rep. Although states like NY cap doc fees at $75, most states like MA do not have any cap.
To new Forum contributors, check out this article for info about doc fees in your state (scroll to the bottom of the page): http://blog.truecar.com/2011/07/26/which-additional-fees-should-i-pay-at-the-dea- - lership-what-is-the-doc-fee/
Here are my final bids (narrowed it down to three dealers) on the 2014 Honda Accord EXL 4 cylinder (MSRP $29,060 including destination). I think I am going to go with dealer A if you all approve of my deal. The car will be at the dealership today. These three bids were very close. I was able to secure $500 flex cash on the 2014 with Honda financing. It is taken off at the bottom under the OTD pricing.
2014 Honda Accord EXL 4 cyl blk/blk
(MSRP $29,060: Includes Destination)
Honda A Honda B Honda C
Base Price $25, 872.82 $26,000 $26,043.53
Tax 7% $1,662.58 $1,668.92
Est Tag Transfer/State Fees $263.50 $220.75 + $57.00 elect tag
Dealer Fee $898 $699 $599
Dealer Options/Perks Included:
Door Edge Guards yes no no
Nitrogen In Tires no yes yes
Mud Guards yes yes yes
Body Side Molding yes yes no
Wheel Locks yes yes yes
Trunk Tray yes yes yes
Standard Mats yes yes yes
Pin-Striping yes ? yes
Tinted Windows $100 ? yes
Tires switched to OEM Michelin MXV4 no yes yes
Finance:
$500 Flex Cash Available (Honda Finace) yes ? yes
USAA Dealer Rate(.50 off best $1.99 rate yes no yes
Other:
Deposit Required To Get Car no ? yes
Car available on lot now yes no no
Total OTD price before flex cash $28,696.90 $28,619.00 $29,000
Less $500 Flex if Honda Financing Used $28,196.90 ? $28,500
Money from recent referral $100 check n/a n/a
Payments
(using Honda Financing)
2.74% at 78 months ($28,196.90) $395.06
1.99% at 66 months ($28,196.90) $451.26
(using C1CU Financing pre-approved)
2.74% at 78 months ($28,696.90) $402.06
1.98 % at 66 months ($28,696.90) $459.26
*Note: I am going with a longer term since we had a car totaled and need to replace it but we are in the middle of building a house with a mortgage pending*
Bill
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Thank you very much for your comprehensive response. Lots of useful information here and I will follow your guidance. To date, I've contacted 3 dealers in long island, NY and none willing to offer a competitive price with all asking me to come into dealership to get better pricing. It came to the point, where I was questioning why bother with the internet as the only thing they do is take your information and then talk you into coming in the dealership. I will try to reach as many dealers as I can to see who has the most competitive price and if I can get any to give me a bottom line price without coming in. I will update everyone as I make progress and if someone has a local NY area dealer offering a good below invoice price, please post here.
Thank you
Your listed OTD price includes the base price of the car plus dealer doc fees, tag and title fees, and sales tax. Hence, I am trying to figure out how much you are being charged for all these add-ons in order to tell whether you are getting a good deal. The only price I see is $100 for window tinting from dealer A.
Am I missing something here? BTW, did you try asking any of the dealers to reduce their doc fees?
I am sure Brian will provide his input soon.
They will not negotiate dealers fees in Florida other than just working on the price. I have found that with 8 dealerships. Here is the response from this dealer on our deal too for some side info:
"Invoice on the car before any accessories is $26,650.10
Your purchase price WITH accessories is $25,872.82
Hold back on the car is $989.45 so in essence your are paying $212.17 above true dealer cost before any accessories which is less then 1%. We are in business to make a profit even if it's a small one"
The MSRP for some of these options on Honda's website (without installation cost) is as follows:
1. Door Edge Guards ($95)
2. Mud Guards/ Splash Guards ($104)
3. Body Side Molding ($225)
4. Wheel Locks ($56)
5. Trunk Tray ($139)
6. Standard Mats (do you mean all season floor mats?)
7. Pin-Striping (no price listed but I hear it is an inexpensive option)
8. Tint for $100 extra
Total without tint = $619 (assuming MSRP and no installation charges). You could try and negotiate a better deal for the dealer add-ons, but I would like other forum contributors who have more experience to chime in and offer their feedback.
The USAA sales price is good deal since it is $1350 below invoice, before the atrocious $898 doc fees. Try and see if the dealer would lower the sales price of the car and/or throw in some accessories for free to counter those doc fees.
2013 Honda Accord EX-L, no NAV. I lost the notes I took, but it's $355 a month, all fees, taxes, etc are in the lease. I only pay the first month payment of 355 at signing. Thoughts?
DEALER C:
Hello......,
Below is the real numbers on a 2014 Honda Accord EX-L CVT:
MSRP: $29,060.00
Dealer Invoice: $25,609.00
Destination: $790.00
Actual Cost of Vehicle: $26,399.00
Hold Back: $$559.90
In order to sell this vehicle for $28,500 OTD the starting price is less than the actual cost of the vehicle.
Sales Price: $26,106.74
Tax: $1,605.76
Tag: $188.5
Dealer Fee: $599
Total Balance: $28,500.00
Also, we are charging zero for dealer options.
In our previous quote we just discounted the vehicle more to cover cost of dealer options. In the above numbers we took them out of the equation.
DEALER A:
.......,
We can go round and round on the numbers but I can't do any better then I already have. You're omitting labor charges to install the equipment, you're buying the car for less then the invoice minus the hold back combined and USAA doesn't calculate labor charges or dealer installed accessories.
I've even tried to help you and even giving to you for $500.00 less the we spoke about which is $28,166.90 out -the-door since you can't use flex cash on the 2014's. I'm sorry but I have no where else to go!!
First off moesbo relax it is only Sept 18th do not rush this deal.. Sit back and wait a week before you start negotiations up again. At the End of this month is the 3rd quarter end for car companies and most likely you will get the best deal last 2 days, last day of this month. Play the game!!!! you have 3 dealerships that are close in price. Make your best deal with one of them.
Your problem is you have a 2014 model vehicle with alot of added accessories if i read correctly.
Dealer A........ it seems you have lost leverage with him. You are going about negotiating the wrong way with him which will lead to a no sale from him.
When you negotiate a deal in the middle of the month its best to leave dealer with ......... this is my price to buy right now.... think it over, call me if you want this sale. i would mention your considering traveling out of state if no local dealers meet your price .... then wait til end of the month to re start negotiations.
At the end of the month if dealership is saying this is my bottom line moe you either take it or leave it.
Dealer A- has vehicle with splash guards, window tint, door edge, truck mat. paper pin stripe, regular mats are included in price.
Dealer A- knows for a fact he could herb out that vehicle to a walk in store buyer thats clueless on price. He has the upper hand and leverage on you. Wait til the end of the month to get some pricing leverage back.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Thanks
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I bought the 2013 Honda Accord EX 4 door sedan tonight at New Rochelle Honda. I may not be be getting a good deal like others did ... but I learn a lot of technique, fees (destination, doc fees, flex cash ... OTD etc) that I should be aware of during the shopping process.
Car price: $23,100 with destination included.
tax 8.875% $2,050
doc fees $75
plus DMV fees ??? (will know on Saturday when I pick up the car)
The price also include wheel lock, trunk tray and one oil change. I try hard on the weather floor mat but they can't. I pay cash so no flex cash for me.
This dealer by far has no pressure on asking me to buy other stuffs. They just give me info and their price on other stuffs like extended warranty and Lo Jack.
I have been visiting, email, phone calls and contact so many NYC Honda dealers in the last two weeks. I am glad the search is over.
I have a 2003 Honda Odyssey for over 10 years now and we are very happy with it. I hope the Accord will bring us joy for the next ten years to come.
Thank you all.
I'm glad you checked them out.
Enjoy
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
You can read more about dealer hold back here: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/
Keep the lines of communication open with all dealers and then name your price at the end of the month.
For future reference, if you plan to reach out to more dealers make sure they list the price of all the accessories and dealer add-ons separately.
Good luck.
Fyi, stating the monthly payment is of no help to anyone without providing the sales price of the car that was used to calculate the lease payment, and also proving the fees that were included in the calculations.
Although Honda is not offering any flex cash on 2014 models, you might be able to get a good deal at the end of this month.
Did you try getting internet quotes by going to some of the dealer websites? If dealers ask you to come into their dealerships, put them on the spot and ask for their BEST PRICE that would entice you to buy a car today. If the dealer still wants you to come in, hang up the phone and move on to the next one.
On the other hand, if the dealer takes the bait and names his/her price over the phone, make sure you get all that info in writing with their OTD price listing the following info:
1. Sales price of the car without any incentives
2. Dealer doc fees (I believe they are capped at $75 in NY)
3. Title and registration fees
4. Any incentives?
5. OTD price
There are few forum contributors who have bought cars in NY recently. Just search some of the previous posts for the names of dealers who are prepared to offer the best price.
After you have gathered all the info you need and are ready to buy the last 2 days of the month, when reaching out to dealers you should say something on the lines: I will buy today for $XXXX below invoice. It will put the ball in their court and show that you are a serious buyer.
Good luck.
Congrats on the purchase and enjoy your new car.
Thank you. You've helped many people here and hopefully i will be able to get my car soon. I will wait until inventory rises in NY.