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Comments
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Shopper pit dealers against the other dealers in their zeal to not pay one more nickel than they have to.
So, some store will play dirty and give "quotes" that they know they can't sell a car for.
The "smart shopper" has spent, literally weeks on the phone or going from store to store.
I was always upfront and open with my customers and once in awhile when I was asked if I could match or beat some ridiculous number that some other store had given them I had to be SO CAREFUL or I knew I would never see them again. I knew most wouldn't give me the satisfaction of saying " I told you so" even though I would never have said that.
I had to say..." Well, if they will REALLY sell you that car for that price with no last minute add ons or changes, then you should really buy it there"
" Now, if you find out they lied to you or made a mistake, come back and see me. I'll be happy to get you an exceptional deal"
The sad thing is quite often a weary shopper would just cave in and go ahead and buy from the store that lied to them.
" OK, you got me....I'm sick and tired of the fight, just sell me the car"
I do have to say that while I NEVER ONCE lowballed a customer it was tempting and I can see why it happens.
Thanks, Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
I've dealt with shady salesmen and dealerships before, so I hear you. Did you have a backup dealership in place that you could reach out to?
From my personal car buying experience, pitting dealers against one another did not work for me, since most dealerships were firm on their price. Those who offered to match or beat another dealer's price by $XXX never had the lowest price and always played games.
At the end of the day, a shopper needs to figure out the market price of the car they want to buy, and when they are ready to deal offer a "reasonable" BUY TODAY price. That trick worked for me and that's one of the best advice I have gotten from being on this forum.
I have a question for you, since you used to sell cars and Hondas. Why do some salesmen think being deceptive is a way of doing business?
The sad thing is quite often a weary shopper would just cave in and go ahead and buy from the store that lied to them.
I walked out of two dealerships when I was ready to make a deal, after they had lied to me. I would never cave in and buy from a dealership who is dishonest, even if they had the lowest price.
Do not beat yourself up too hard. Information is power.
Use the advice on this forum to obtain a good price from the higher volume dealership. Do not let them know that your first choice dealer played games with you, but let them know that you are ready to BUY TODAY.
Let us know how it goes this time. Keep your head up
I'm just gunning for the low price for the sport of it, and because if I CAN save the $250 or $500 then I'll feel like I "won" the game
When you Ask dealerships for prices and there best quotes.... You get answers and prices like you have. Most of those quotes have rebates/incentives applied to that number to deceive you in thinking its a good price. Dealers want you in that showroom especially a woman with no buying experience.
When you have a target price to buy........Your Telling each dealership
I buy today for this price plus any rebates and incentives that apply to me.
Then you ask.... Do you have flex cash if i finance. If dealer says no.. You tell him well x honda down the block is offering flex cash so you would need to be 500 cheaper on your vehicle to compete with them.. This is how you negotiate. On the phone thru the internet manager. Make your list of dealerships and play the game. As you go down your list cross off all the lying and dishonest dealerships.... There will be alot .
Now you and EVERY Remaining DEALERSHIPS ARE CLEAR ON Your PRICE and what it takes to get your deal done. Not your way which is a constant guessing game in price and details.
If you are in a state where there are limited dealerships you still buy the same way making your best deal out of the few dealerships you have to work with. Supply and demand will de a factor in your price unless you want to travel out of state.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
You asked...
" why do some salesmen think being deceptive is a way of doing business"
It's because they get tired of customers being deceptive, lying and showing no respect for the time they spend with them. They quickly become jaded and learn that in many cases, a handshake and loyalty mean nothing.
They learn to stereotype people and how to ferret out the serious from the flakes.
When they get too jaded and burned out, they leave the business.
In other words, they respond in kind.
I am not surprised by that statement.
I will always be honest with any salesperson I deal with, and I would hope that they will treat me the same way. I can recall agreeing on a deal with a dealership in writing a couple of months ago while searching for a new Accord. After visiting the dealer the next day I was told that the car in the color combination I wanted was sold the previous day (That's one of the most ridiculous lies I had ever heard from a car salesman). They thought I was just going to fold and take whatever color was on their lot. I refused and decided to get up and walk out without any regrets. I am glad I did.
I do not enjoy all the games being played by some of these sales guy. I do understand that those who have been burned in the past by some unscrupulous individuals, feel that by doing the same to prospective customers it would even things out.
Unfortunately, that sales guy and dealership who lied to me has lost my business forever. I will make sure to tell anyone in the market for a new or used Honda in the Boston area not to do business with them, even if they had the lowest price.
Otherwise, why would it be a "ridiculous lie"? A high volume store like the one I worked at can often sell 20 new cars a day or even more.
We used to have a saying..." It's either SOLD, or it's not"
We rarely would hold a car for someone because experience taught us otherwise.
" Hold that car, I'll be in tomorrow to buy it!"
So, later that day, another customer who looked at it before comes back, cash in hand to buy that same car"
Do you sell it to the guy standing there or do you tell him..." Ah, I've got someone who "says" he is coming tomorrow to buy this car so you can't have it"
What would YOU do?
So, it's best to say..." I'm sorry but we can't hold a car for you and I hope you can understand why this is our policy".
Most of the time, that would light a fire under the first person who would suddenly figure out a way to rearrange things so they could come earlier.
On used cars, it was tough. " I can't hold this car for you (while you continue to shop) and there is a good chance it's going to get sold quickly.
Rolling of eyes...." Well, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be...I'll just take my chances"
I can't tell you have many "meant to be" shoppers returned only to find the car they really wanted had sold!
Sometimes I felt like saying..." You didn't believe me, did you?...I guess this wasn't meant to be"!
I was nice pleasant and played stupid. They treated me like i was a moron..
Why was i treated like this......
The salesman and his manager worked me over they both lied about price incentives and just about everything i asked them. They have a special deal for me if i buy today...
R you sure isell.. about your comments and your brother and sister compadres conduct and practices. Never seems to change nice or not..
I went in there to check out a vehicle/ pricing/ info . If i did not know better i would say i was treated with mis information and lies like always.
Pays to be nice. Wait til nov,30 they will deal with the real brian and not the herb.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Before going into the dealership, I had called and spoken to the general sales manager and informed him that I was coming in the next day to close the deal. I specifically asked him if the car was on the lot and he said YES.
If the car (in my color combo) was actually on their lot and sold to a cash buyer that day, they could have called me and informed me about it. They had my contact information, since they were emailing and calling me to find out when I was going to come into the dealership. Instead, I wasted nearly two hours (an hour driving to the dealer and another hour at the dealership).
Another ridiculous thing happened while at that same dealership. It was with regards to flex cash. The sales guy was trying to tell me that they could not guarantee flex cash since it could take time to "locate" the car in my color combo, and I had not signed any paperwork yet. I will tell you why that was a BS statement. They had already run my credit and they knew I was a serious buyer. Anyway, after I walked out of that dealership, I immediately got in touch with my backup dealership. I spoke with the internet sales manager and one his sales guys took my personal information over the phone (credit application, etc..) and they were able to guarantee the flex cash discount before it expired. Guess what? They were also able to locate the car for me in the color combination I wanted in one day.
If the first dealer really wanted my business, they would have done the same. I came in a few days later to sign the paperwork and pick up my new car. I was in that dealership for less than a couple of hours. The finance guy did not try to push me into buying any extended warranty plans. The staff I dealt with was very professional. They did not play any games and treated me with respect. That's why I would always recommend that dealership to anyone looking to buy a Honda in the Boston area.
I have learned my lesson. You can NEVER give any car salesman the benefit of the doubt.
The big-volume dealer I'm talking with now in northern Illinois is offering this for the 2014 Accord EX-L: $25,499 He has already added in $790 for Dest. Fee and subtracted $500 Loan Incentive. So is his base price $25,499 - $790 + $500 = $25,209, or $1,441 below invoice. OR should I include the $790 and think of his price as $25,999, or $651 below invoice.
I feel too stupid to come up with a number to tell them is my price. And what about accessories? Are they making big profit on those and should I be asking for discount there? If they agree to a base price of $25,000 but then charge me the maximum for things like floor mats, am I just fooling myself that I'm getting a good deal?
Where do I find the dealer's actual cost for accessories?
much thanks for the patience of anyone who responds.
If this cant be done you have to drive from one dealer to the next sit down with these sales folks who most of the time know less than you about the vehicle your buying and put up with let me get my manager. Hopefully you get a decent guy like isell that makes this process less hellful.
Overall i say its a 70/30 dishonest industry
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
2014 EXL invoice= 25,860
dest/charge.............790
total......................26,650 invoice w dest charge
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
26,650..............invoice w dest/ charge
25499.. dealers .price w dest included
Your at 1151 below invoice price..
if the 500 flex was included in this number then like you posted your deal is at 651 below invoice. Nice job
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I didn't do anything special to get that price. I just asked for their best price. BUT NOW, I want to come up with my asking price, right? If he has offered the 25,499 which DOES include his subtraction of $500 for incentive, would it be too expressive for me to propose $25,000 ? This takes me back to the issue of accessories - how can I get those for the best price? Or does one always have to pay the invoice on accessories?
Always include the destination fee in the price of the car, when figuring out whether you are getting a good deal or not. Brian is correct.
My only advice at this stage is to make sure that the dealer has the car in the color combination you want on their lot. If not, find out whether they can locate the car for you at no extra charge. Never settle for a second or third choice color on a 2014 model at this time of the year.
Good luck and let us know how things go.
I do not want to sound mean, but there is a lot of info on this forum on how to go about getting the proper information when reaching out to dealerships for their best price. Brian and I have written a lot of posts on this subject with very valuable information.
Before providing a counter offer price, make sure that the dealer's best price included the destination fee. As for the flex cash ($500 loan incentive), I hope you are aware that you would have to finance the car through Honda Financial Services. Hence, if your credit is not the best you might be stuck with a high interest rate. I am not making any assumptions here on your credit score, but I just want to give you all the info that will help you make the best financial decision.
Do not worry too much about the price of accessories right now. Your main focus is to agree on a sales price of the car. Once you have sealed the deal, then you can negotiate on the price of accessories. What accessories were you looking to buy? All weather floor mats? You can get them cheaper online.
My dealer was offering OEM floor mats at MSRP, so I ended up buying them brand new on Ebay at a huge discount. They came from an out of state dealership.
btw, my credit is exquisite. I don't like being forced into a loan, but that $500 is too much to pass up. I just heard a piece on the radio this morning (NPR) that because interest rates are so low, one doesn't need especially good credit score to get a car loan.
Check this out: http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/honda/accord-sedan-pricing/2014/. Scroll down the page and there is a table listing the TOTAL Factory Invoice price and MSRP (with the destination fee included).
As far as the search feature on this site, I hear you. Sometimes, I navigate to previous pages by clicking the page numbers at the bottom. If I am looking for something I wrote previously, I search for my name "bluemkn57cars" in the search box at the right of the page next to "Search This Discussion". If there is a specific post you want to search for, you can enter the post number at the top left of the page in the box next to "Go To Msg #".
I hope that helps.
I put in Accord V6 and it claims that 28,843 is a "great price"....actually anything LESS THAN 29,499 IS A GREAT PRICE. Excuse me? Anything less than $1000 OVER invoice is a "GREAT PRICE"????? Their standards are a bit lazy.
Actually I suspect they are kind of a shill for the car dealers.....like an alternative "funnel" into the internet side of the dealers but at an even better price. Think about it....someone can just contact a dealer in a vacuum and say "give me a good quote" and the dealer knows he has to be pretty competitive. OR, they can go to some "independent" website first that looks very scientific and says "our algorithms have determined that anything less than $29,499 is a GREAT price, and wouldn't you know that we have 3 dealers in your area who would offer 28,800 TODAY, so if 29,499 is a GREAT PRICE, and these dealers are offering 28,800, that is a REALLY GREAT PRICE....just click here and we'll use our muscle to convince the dealer to sell you the car at 28,800.
And lots of people probably say...sweet, that is below sticker, and this looks very official as an independent pricing service, so I guess that is probably as good a deal as I can expect.
So just as a point of reference to all this, I got over 12 quotes back in 1 day when I contacted the internet dealers directly thru their websites, and I'm guessing 10 of the 12 were already well below this 28,800. In fact many were 1000-1500 lower.
I expect to buy tomorrow at a price that will be off the left side of that "bell curve"
So, a long way of me saying TAKE WHAT TRUECAR SAYS WITH MANY GRAINS OF SALT
Just IMO
i agree with some of your points. Web sites / car sites like true car, Edmunds are good starting points to see pricing. Any info collected on price and dealership helps to get you a better deal. Some of these sites are just a guide or starting points for the few who know how to buy vehicles... As for others its a great way to get a decent deal. Especially if you know nothing about new car buying.
Unless you like to go from one dealer to the next and waste your hard earned time in life listening to these car people spew all there nonsense there is a easier way to get to your bottom line price and buy a vehicle today..
Its called email/ phone online buying with direct talks with the internet manager or his team....... Hogan is
Getting 12 quotes from contacting online dealerships internet managers. dealing directly with them weeding out the good from the bad dealers.
And here is the best thing about buying this way....your sitting in the comfort of your own home letting dealerships fight for your business. You pit one dealer against the next til you get your target price. This is business your playing by the car manufactorers rules that they set up.. Use pricing and the abundance of dealerships to your advantage.
This is how you play the game today. Take the middle man out of the sale.
good luck
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
This forum and a lot of online research helped me negotiate and strike a good deal on my new car a few months ago. I would hope that some of the newbies on this forum would absorb some of the great info and advice being offered here.
I dont think you will get another 500 off that price.
I think you should try to get dealers closest to you to match the high volume dealership. Unless this dealership is close by. Its either added accessories or lower price... cant get both..
Instead of getting more money deducted off your good price. i would call that dealerships internet manager and tell him for his price of xxx plus your added accessories installed at invoice price you will buy that moment. Make dealer commit right then and there on the phone yes or No.. Tell him you will leave a credit card deposit showing him your serious to buy . If he declines your offer tell him you are going to think about his price and get back to him. try to do this via email so he has your info.
If dealership agree's and he is not sending you a faxed buyers order/ bill of sale to sign.. you make dealer sign that your credit card deposit is refundable.
Your almost there............. Now you have to close this deal..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I parked next to a white one at the grocery store today, and it just has a stately, classy, solidly built quality to it. I mean, my car is really attractive. It is red with tinted windows, spoiler, fog lights, push button start, and on and on, but I think the Accord looks better in some respects.
Anyway, what kind of real prices are you finding. especially if any of you live in the DC area. I might trade mine in.
Lastly, I want to know if any of you owners are having ANY regrets on the CVT. I have a 6 speed automatic, and the one thing I love the most about my car is how creamy smooth the powertrain is. A manual trans is out of the question at this point in my life, and I can't swing a V6 model with the traditional 6 speed.
Thx! Call me Chris
Soon you will see the relatively honest ones vs the scammers. Here are some tricks they'll try..
...give a really low quote and then the asterisk will say "includes all possible incentives " which means they are taking off the military discount and the college discount. Of course when you get there they'll say that you don't qualify for those. Most dealers don't go this underhanded but a few will
...give a price but the asterisk says it does not include dealer accessories so if you don't know to ask, then when you get there you'll find out they've got wheel locks and splash guards for only 500 more and that wasn't part of your quote.
...play games with your taxes ....in my area certain counties have lower taxes but you pay tax for where you live not where you buy the car. But some dealers will just show their lower tax even though they know where you live.
I thought I did a good job thee years ago but this time came even easier with all the internet stuff. Very nice to just email dealers with questions from my smartphone while riding the train to work. The less time I need to actually spend at the dealer the better. And truly if you just go to "submit an inquiry" on each dealers website you'll get some pretty good quotes right away. If you don't want to invest a lot of time that's fine, but just take 15 mins and click on each dealers site, enter your name and requested car, and within one day you'll have several really decent quotes. Could just buy at that point and you'll have saved lots. If you want to keep pushing you can too but at least do the first part
my way is faster and cuts thru the bs. my way i'm buying that day. I leave no stone un turned with price /incentives etc.
i usually dont fish for pricing i make dealers meet my target price.
Doing your homework and prep work is the key to making great deals.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
brian125 had said on here that “2000 below invoice on the 2013 is a good starting point”—and since I beat that and then got financing incentives on top, I’m quite pleased. The ideas you all mentioned were very helpful, so thanks to all of you. No doubt, supply and demand mattered too, so thanks to Lady Luck as well!
As you folks see my numbers are very accurate with pricing. i'm sure there will be similar deals near the end of this month into Dec.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
They should have held the car for you if they said they would do that.
And, I kinda resent your implication that a car salesperson can NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt.
When you are trying to scrape the bottom of the dollar bucket, you will come up with some scum at times.
I resent your statement that I was trying to scrape the bottom of the dollar bucket.
My backup dealership sales price was a $100 more than the sleazy dealership who had lied to me. So before making such outrageous comments, I would appreciate if you get all your facts right.
You may not agree with my statement about car sales men, but having dealt with a lot of shady and sleazy car salesmen recently I stand by my comment. Not all car sales men are bad people, but I feel like you can never let your guard down when dealing with them. They are at a dealership to sell cars and help their employer make a profit. Most of them will do whatever it takes to get to that point, even if it means deceiving a potential customer.
At the end of the day, when I walk into any business to spend my hard earned money on goods and/or services, I would hope that I am treated with respect and not lied to as if I were born last night.
PRICE: 26,999 (included the 500 flexcash) +TTL. This IS with destination. I believe it to be a great deal.
So a few days ago I made this offer to Dealer 1. Salesman checked and called me back and said "we have a deal". We went through all the numbers including OTD, and we both agreed. There was no confusion.
So when I show up today to buy it, the guy says "I'm gonna try my best". Huh? Try your best at WHAT? So his boss the sales manager is writing up the form and says "why did he cross out 790 destination? This price needs to add destination. I said NO, we agreed. And she shrugs and says OK and keeps writing it up. So it's all written up, I fill out all my credit apps etc, and then they take the papers into the "corner office" to get finalized. So I wait. And I wait a bit more. Then the woman comes back and says "I talked to my manager, this price is IMPOSSIBLE, I'm sorry that there was a confusion on the destination charge. Nobody will sell you this car for 26,999. It is impossible. I tell you what, I will split the charge with you...add 400 bucks. I said No No NO NO NO and looked at the salesman who is now looking sheepish like he knew all along this was going to happen. The funny thing was, two other dealers called me this morning and I said I am ON MY WAY to buy the car at 26,999, but if for some reason it falls through I will call them. So one of them TEXTED me a note that said "we will match that price". So I go talk to my greasy hair manager who says "I'm sorry, I can't sell you the car for that price. No dealer is gonna sell you the car for that price." So I whip out my phone and show him the text. Amazingly, he didn't care. So I walked out......and will vow never to do business there again.
Called the other 2 dealers back, and made doubly sure if I came in I wasn't gonna have a rehash of this very unpleasant experience. Went to dealer 2, and lo and behold he did sell me the car as he said he would. There are actually car dealers who will hold their word! Awesome! My faith in humanity is restored.
So I have the car, I LOVE it....awesome awesome car and a great deal to boot. I'm still deciding whether it it worth it to go on a personal vendetta against the slimeball dealer by posting their sleazy story in reviews on Yelp etc. Not that it will probably save anyone, but man was I hot.....my wife had dropped me off so I didn't even have a car! (I thought I would be driving the new one home) so I had to walk up the street and wait at a restaurant while she came back. But I would have gladly paid MORE to any other dealer rather than reward that BS behavior. I didn't do anything wrong here....he called me and asked if I was ready to buy, I made him an offer, he checked and called me back 30 mins later and then we agreed all the numbers, and then they pull a BS bait and switch. Amazing. It's no wonder why that industry still has the stereotypes. Because in some cases THEY ARE TRUE!
Had my choice of colors, I went with Hematite. The whole process went really fast. Started requesting the very first quote via honda.com at 10am today to finishing the the paperwork at 5pm. Good buying experience.
I was actually wanting to buy closer to the end of December. Do you guys think it will be better towards the end of the year (or at least around the same)? :confuse:
I did not try to negotiate down any further, but did respond enough to clarify about the destination and incentives.
Oh and if anyone wants the dealer info let me know.
Again - congrats and great job!
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Interestingly it was the SAME dealer three years ago but different salesman who said Come on over,we have your odyssey in stock in the color I wanted and the magically when I got there oops, I checked our inventory and we had it coded in the computer wrong. And the kicker there was the same wolf manager came over and said "well why don't you switch and get a different color...why are you so set on just one color?"
They were so cool at the testdrive phase that I thought the last thing was a fluke, but two strikes and you're out for good.
Yeah I'd like to give my advice on driveaccord but somehow one of the mods over there decided to ban my account. Still not sure what the crime was but this guy had it out for me from the start for some unknown reason.
Sorry for the lack of clarity -I was meaning 15% off of MSRP. Do you foresee the December/end of the year sales to be better?
And this was Spreen Honda, which doesn't appear to have bad reviews here or on the web (unlike the dealership by me which has one star on yelp). Staysi was the Internet Sales Manager emailing me.
Thank you
Florence
I am saddened that you won't be on the other forum. I was following more than one of the threads/topics where you were contributing with what I thought was valuable input. In my opinion, I honestly didn't see anything from you that was out of line and quite frankly saw some posters who were very unpleasant and amazingly are still there. But I can reap the benefit of your wisdom here, which is awesome!
Enjoy your new ride!!