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2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • dleung1dleung1 Member Posts: 10
    Anyone here know what the current rate is ?
  • ystressystress Member Posts: 25
    The internet manager/salesperson did not tell me over the phone that a certain vehicle was available only to find no such vehicle on the lot. The internet mgr/salesperson didn't harrass me over the phone about my low Honda survey scores. The internet mgr/salesperson didn't try to low ball my trade(98 Accord) using the excuse, " oh I thought you said civic". No, isellhondas, that crap came from a "salesperson". Internet managers I've dealt with actually LISTEN to the CUSTOMER, something that has been severely lacking in America lately. Salespeople play games, period. Again I reference the article on this Edmunds site regarding a reporters undercover expolits as a car salesman. Hey, I love Honda's, ever since dad came home with a brand new Honda CB 750 & later a Honda 600 coupe, the first car Honda had success with in the US. If people on this site have complaints about their cars or sales experience, this is the place for them to write about it. We're all not here to bow to the salesperson and Honda as our lord & and savior.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    I understand why $22k OTD might sound ridiculous, but I've successfully negotiated what were improbable deals, like $23.5k OTD with mudflaps, trunk net, roof visor and wheel locks for my 03 EX V6 coupe way back in March 03. And more recently, $19.5k for a pre-owned 2000 BMW 323ci (market: $22k) for my son.

    Anyone who buys a depreciating asset like a car needs to hedge against depreciation as much as possible. And the dealer needs to unload, so that's a factor in higgin's favor.

    When targeting "just the right price," what negotiating room does one have ?

    One can't get prices for a new 2003 Accord at this time; that's why pricing for a used 2003 with 100 miles was used for baseline reference. Having this kind of info on hand during the nego is critically important in my experience.
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    Thanks! As I said, it doesn't hurt to try, and I WILL try. The numbers / pricing for a new 2003 Accord was from kbb.com. It will be my wife's car, and she likes the Solara V6 as well.
  • kad153kad153 Member Posts: 22
    Purchased back in early November. MSRP is 26890, invoice is 24244 (including destination). Price I paid was 24294 including destination, the wing spoiler (~$500), the auto day-night mirror (~$300), and wheel locks (We first agreed on 23k + destination for car, than added options I wanted). Tax was $1457.64 (6% in NJ), registration was $96.20, doc fee of $142 -- for an out the door price of $25989.84. 1.9% financing and I was done. The car came with 11 miles on it, and has been trouble free.

    Now, I know I have heard about 3% holdback, and other good deals, but remember I got my car on November 8th. How did I do? Please - honestly is what I want - if I didnt get as good a deal as I thought, please let me know.
  • matthew633matthew633 Member Posts: 26
    I, too, encourage you to go for it. Just purchased a 2004 CR-V for $500 below invoice. Not sure if the $750 cash back you refer to is "dealer holdback" but if not you may want to check this, too. Just a couple of suggestions if you decide this is the car...go in person, tell them you want to buy a car that day (if that's true), take a copy of the invoice and whatever other detail to justify your offer. Remind them this is a 1-yr. old car, etc. Tends to be best to go at the end of the month but not sure if this applies in your case.
  • jelly_admnjelly_admn Member Posts: 9
    my details i didnt put were 4dr auto 2.4L 2004 EX. Paid 19,837 that included dest.

    jelly_admn
  • rshapiro2rshapiro2 Member Posts: 2
    Is this a four door or two door? What is the color? Where is your location?
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    You're welcome, btw. A lot goes on behind the scene in a dealership (some in the buyer's favor)- hence the suggestion to negotiate assertively.

    It may not work all the time, but there's power behind sitting face to face with the dealer, telling them in no uncertain terms that it's a done deal if the terms are right (ref matthew633's comment).

    My last tip on this particular deal: inform dealer the 03 involves owner downtime because of various bugs of the car. Case in point, I've been to the dealer 4 times so far for interior noises and front brake problems, and they've not been resolved yet.

    Good luck.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm glad it worked out for you. I would like to think that the majority of salespeople are not as you described. I could be wrong, I suppose.

    I know I don't do the things you described and I am perfectly capable of being an "Internet Manager" whenever needed.
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    It's a coupe, silver color, I'm in the south suburbs of Chicago.
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    Here are the figures for my 2004 Accord EX V6 Coupe with Automatic Transmission, Leather, Side Curtains and Navigation:

    MSRP is $28,500 plus $490 destination for a total of $28,990.

    My purchase price was calculated as follows:

    Invoice is $25,377 plus $490 destination for a total of $26,131. I deducted $855 holdback, added local advertising & profit and made a telephone offer of $25,377 to the Internet Manager. The order was accepted for an in-stock vehicle.

    I immediately drove over to complete the paperwork (with no pressure to add ANYTHING). I actually changed my mind and decided to lease based upon the negotiated purchase price.

    I'm happy. The dealer, Mahwah Honda in northern NJ, is happy. I love driving the car and especially enjoy interacting with the Navigation system.
  • zhelderzhelder Member Posts: 42
    Congrats, Blane, you got a phenomenal deal. I bought my car at Mahwah Honda too, EX-V6 Navi sedan. I paid a bit more ($26500 incl. destination) but considering this was my first new car purchase and negotiation and the research I did at the time (Cars Direct wanted $27441 at the time and other people on the board seemed to be paying about 27K) I thought I got an OK deal. After reading this board regularly for the past two months, however, I feel a lot wiser now and will be much better prepared for future car negotiations. I did think the experience at Mahwah Honda was a positive one, and pressure for add ons was minimal. The staff was friendly and helpful. I would definitely consider buying there again, and next time I'll be even better prepared to negotiate a deal. BTW, the car is phenomenal. Enjoy!
  • sleepystevesleepysteve Member Posts: 11
    2004 honda accord 6speed manual coupe with nav.
    msrp 28990
    invoice 26131
    price paid 26181 with mats
  • askaniaskani Member Posts: 8
    Purchased a 2004 Honda Accord LX 4dr Sedan (Auto) from Hillside Honda (Queens, NY) on the 30th of December. MSRP is $20,100; Invoice is $18,093; I paid $17,300 (included destination). I used fax-attack method to search for a 2003 Accord. Settled on price came in and saw I was getting a 2004 instead. Either way I thought I got a good deal. In the dealership they were offering 2004 Accord LX 4dr Sedan for $17,999 + destination.
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    I was offered plus tax, title/registration, doc fee ($50.00), $24127 (destination included). Dealer is in Chicagoland area.
  • desmonsmdesmonsm Member Posts: 48
    I was all set to purchase an '04 Accord EX-L 2.4L automatic (satin silver) this past Saturday. I'd been working with a dealership in Frankfort, KY (Honda of Frankfort), and we had agreed on the price of the vehicle ($22,300 OTD with mud guards, wheel locks, cargo tray, and all-weather mats). We'd also agreed on the price of my trade-in: $12,500 for a 2002 black Ford Escape XLT 4x2 fully loaded minus moonroof, 43k miles.
    I'm to meet with the salesman at 2pm, so I call about 1 to let him know I may be a few minutes late. The individual who answers the phone says that salesman no longer works at the dealership, and neither does the Sales Manager who'm I'd worked with regarding the trade-in! WTF? Basically, in the last 3 weeks these 2 guys have left the place! Here's my question: must the dealership honor the offers that were made on their behalf (ie $22,300 OTD and $12,500)? Thanks for your help guys.
  • sr_shahsr_shah Member Posts: 16
    Hi Kad153,
    I too am considering 04 EX-V6 and live in NJ. Could you please tell me which dealer did you buy it from? Any other dealers you visited/got quotes from?

    Thanks,
    ss.
  • gatrhumpygatrhumpy Member Posts: 126
    Blane,
       I'm curious. Where did you get that figure for the invoice for the car? Invoice for that car is listed as $25,551. What is the percentage of factory holdback that you use? Is it 3%? Did that figure that you quoted to us factor in taxes? What was the OTD cost that you got? Thanks.
  • ltmarksltmarks Member Posts: 28
    I don't know how you possibly got that deal. for the same exact car (28,990 msrp) in Boston the dealer laughed at me. His "best" offer is $27,000. of course I know he will come down a little, but I can't see $25,377. That means he is giving up almost the entire holdback.

    Anyone have other experiences in Boston or MA?
  • jc123jc123 Member Posts: 4
    Purchased a 2004 Accord EX V6 sedan (MSRP $26,880), (2.9% interest) Jan. 2, 2004. Paid $24,550 including auto day/night mirror and destination charges. I known some on this forum have made much better deals, but I'm satisfied that I did my best ( I spent over 2-3 months researching )and so far, I love the car!!! Thanks, for all the information , that helped me make my choice. NW Missouri
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    gatrhumpy:
    ltmarks:

    Sorry for the typo in my post #3541. It should have read:

    "MSRP is $28,500 plus $490 destination for a total of $28,990.

    My purchase price was calculated as follows:

    Invoice is $25,641 plus $490 destination for a total of $26,131. I deducted $855 holdback (3% of MSRP), added local advertising & profit and made a telephone offer of $25,377..."

    Here's where you can find the invoice price for my 2004 Honda Accord EX V-6 2dr Coupe with Automatic Transmission and Navigation:

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/honda/accord/100346474/prices.htm- - - l?tid=edmunds.n.mipmake.pricetable.num11.1.honda*

    Regarding your questions about taxes and OTD, those factors are immaterial to comparing deals in different states. Tax rates are different, so there is no point in my indicating mine since it won't necessarily mean anything where anyone else lives. OTD may mean something else to you than it does to me. That is, you may or may not have a tradein. I didn't, since I sell my cars privately. You may or may not have purchased optional equipment or services. I didn't.

    The only way to legitimately compare deals is to ignore all factors other than the bottom line you and the dealer are willing to agree upon for a vehicle. Everyone, all over the country can relate to that figure. Only then can you discuss local taxes, registration, tradein, options, etcetera, since those are local variables.

    ltmarks:

    Your dealer may have "laughed" at $25,377, but the deal was real. I'm driving it. Work the numbers with other dealers. You'll get a much better deal than you've described. It's best to shop on the last few evenings of the month or quarter. Even better if the weather is bad and customer traffic is light. If they want to meet their sales figures, they'll deal.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    You say "Invoice is $25,641 plus $490 destination for a total of $26,131. I deducted $855 holdback (3% of MSRP), added local advertising & profit and made a telephone offer of $25,377" So 26,131 - 855 - 25377 =101 local advertising and profit?

    How did you determine that local advertising and profit are $101?
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    Well, hard as I tried, the best I can do was $21,988 plus tax, title, and doc fee; and had them throw in 4 mudguards. I tried everything including getting up to leave, etc., etc. I left a fully refundable deposit to give me time to digest this deal further. Here are my numbers:
    Invoice: 23,304.62 MSRP: 25,900.00
    Destination: 460.00
    3% dealer hold back (MSRP): 777.00
    Dealer cash back: 500.00
    Additional 500.00 off to move it.

    So, 23,304.62 PLUS 460.00, LESS 777.00,
    LESS 1000.00 (2 x 500). FINAL PRICE=21988
    Does it make sense??
  • sbake1sbake1 Member Posts: 2
    I bought a 2003 LX Sedan V6 tonight for $19,995 including destination. I went after 2003 EX sedans last week and almost bought one for $19,898 but the dealership lied about the mileage.
    It is for my wife who wanted a car under $20,000. I wanted the side airbag, traction control, front/rear disc. The major things she lost in not getting an EX are the moon roof and alloy wheels which she does not care about. The V6 lx seems to be a good deal as it includes a lot of convenience features of the EX and some the EX 4cyc. does not have - 8 way power seat and traction control and a V6. It has the side airbags, 6 CD changer, steering mounted audio controls, security system, 16 inch wheels. It suited out needs.
  • kendridkendrid Member Posts: 97
    That offer is 83% of MSRP. That is a pretty good sale no matter what you are buying.

    You have an incredible offer on the table - just look at the other posts. Take the offer, get the car, and enjoy it.
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    z71bill:

    The $101 was a starting point. I was prepared to go higher, to perhaps as much as $350. That step just wasn't necessary.
  • johnnycakejohnnycake Member Posts: 3
    In my youth I and my friends made grievious errors when buying a new car. Here is a list--

    1. Entered the dealership in a fear-induced rage, just knowing we would cheated.(anger distorts your thinking)
    2. Had little idea about what would be a fair price.
    3. Felt sorry for the salesperson (did he/she feel sorry for us?)
    4. did not know EXACTLY what car we wanted.
    5. did not realize that every car on the lot is a WASTING ASSET--every day worth less and less.
    6. Bought into the threat that "...this deal is for right now only, will be higher tommorrow."
    7. Bought the first model year of a car.
    8. Paid top dollar for cars that were in high demand: e.g., PT Cruiser, VW Beetles in the early 70's; HONDA Odessey, etc. (think about the guy driving a first model year lemoney PT Cruiser which he paid $2000 over invoice for and didn't even get the color he wanted)
    9. Got the car for a good price but got reamed on the 'back end': finance, undercoating, window etching, stripes, extened warranty.
    10. Forget our muliplication tables: when the finance guy said, "...look for just 14 dollars extra a month you can get the sunroof that your wife wants..." we took the bait, not realizing that $14 X 60 months of our 5 yr loan would add up to about $900.00 (interest) for a $490 sun roof.
  • isaacjsonisaacjson Member Posts: 2
    hi guys
    i just purchased 04 accord coupe.
    i was offered a extended warranty of 7 years/100K
    for $885 with $0 deductible. I purchased the Xtended warranty knowing if i have a change of heart i can cancel it in 60 days.
    should i keep the warranty?
    thanks in advance.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    If you have an extended warranty to sleep at night, than the going price is less than $800 for a zero deductible 7 year/100,000 mile Honda warranty. Personally, I would save my money. I'm a mechanic and it would be extremely rare for you to need any repair during that period of time. Regardless, I would still at least wait 24,000 miles or two years before I would even consider buying the extended warranty, because there is no penalty, it will still cost the same price. Even if you wait just shy of 36 months or 36k, there is only a $60 dollar additional charge. Bottom line, if my car was sound near the end of the basic warranty, I would bank the money. Chances are (95% or better) that I will have all my money plus interest in the bank 10 years after I bought my Honda, especially if I do all of my required maintenance. The Accord is a well made car and I doubt you will be replacing anything but tires, wiper blades, brake pads and maybe rotors in the next 7 years or 100,000 miles. After about 10 years or 110,000 miles, then you could possibly be expecting to pay out money for other repairs, but it may be many more miles or years than that. I keep cars for 13 to 15 years and I have yet to have a failure that would have paid off with a factory warranty. The good news is most Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans will make it till a 100K without dipping into your wallet. Even if your car needs minor repairs, it will most likely be less than the money you shelled out for the warranty. Just make sure you service your car by the manual, not the dealer's recommendations. This will save you a lot money and your car will last you a very long time. Also, I recommend following the severe maintenance schedual in your owner's manual regardless of your driving style. Happy motoring.
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    No one can tell you if it is "worth it". Only you can decide based on your previus experience with Honda automobiles, or any automobile for that matter. However, the price ($885) with $0.00 deductible seems excellent. Good luck.
  • sleepystevesleepysteve Member Posts: 11
    I was quoted $1064 for my 2004 6speed manual coupe
    I passed on this because you can always purchase it later.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,514
    The price seems excellent. However, I agree with bd21. Just wait. You can buy the extended warranty up until the day the basic warranty runs out. Many, many things can happen before then. (job changes, car totaled, etc.) One other thing to keep in mind: If you rolled the warranty cost into your financing, you won't get a refund. It will be sent to the bank to reduce your principal, and your payment won't go down, you'll just pay off your car sooner.
    I disagree just a little with bd21 about the likelihood you'll use the warranty. I've had 7 Hondas, and I love them, but I think they are not quite as bulletproof as they used to be. I think $800-900 is quite reasonable for 64,000 miles of extra warranty coverage, especially if you will use most or all of those miles during the warranty period.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • sr_shahsr_shah Member Posts: 16
    Hi All,
    Looking to buy 04 Accord EX V6 this month end or next month. What is everyone paying. So far, I have seen mixed numbers. Someone paying as low as 23.5k and other as much as 25+.

    I am trying to figure out if I should start negotiations with invoice price or invoice - holdback. Will that be too aggresive?

    Thanks for any tips,
    SS
  • rbrrbr Member Posts: 113
    I got the 7yr/100k extended warranty on my 2004 V-6 Sedan w/Nav for $945. I purchased it when I bought the car because it does have other benefits beyond ordinary warranty coverage that run from the time of purchase, the most important of which for me was rental car reimbursement (translated -- a loaner car, at least at my dealer) on any warranty repair of one-tenth of an hour or more. It also comes with "AAA" type benefits for travel and other stuff if you have a major breakdown.

    I also bought it because I am risk averse (smile). I realize that, statistically speaking, over the entire group of people buying these warranties that Honda is collecting more in premiums than they are paying out in claims, but all that is going to be meaningless if there is a significant problem with my car after the warranty expires. Also, if you are planning to sell the car yourself some day before the end of the warranty period, you will likely get a premium from a seller who knows that the car is still covered under a factory warranty.

    Conclusion -- unless you are strapped for cash, my advice is to keep it. BTW, you can cancel after 60 days, but you get a pro rata refund, less any claims you have made I believe. Check the back of your Honda Care application for more information.

    Hope this helps -- congrats. on the car.
  • sleepystevesleepysteve Member Posts: 11
    I am in the Valley Forge Pa area and paid about
    $50 over invoice for 6speed manual coupe
    Msrp 28990 price paid 26181.
  • matthew633matthew633 Member Posts: 26
    Good you're planning to go at month end. I started with the invoice less dealer holdback but make sure you bring a copy of the invoice showing the numbers. I ended up paying apx. $150 more than this for a CR-V but the dealer came down apx. $500 under invoice. This wouldn't have happened if I started with the invoice price. Dealer #1 didn't want to work with this but the next one did. Never hurts to ask if you can back up your offer and if the dealer wants to sell. If you read the "CR-V Prices Paid" forum you'll also see quite a range in prices paid.

    One thing I would do differently is buy the accessories on line. Much cheaper even with shipping added.
  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    I am in the process of acquiring a brand new 03 Accord Coupe V6 auto. for agreed price of $21,988 plus tax, title, doc fee.. Thinking about leasing it, NEVER leased a car but I know our driving habits (miles driven, etc.) Can anyone give me input as to what I should be looking at if I choose to go this route. THANKS.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,514
    I assume thats for the LX-V6? If you are planning on leasing, you may find you can lease the EX-V6 for not much more, as the EX usually has higher percentage residuals due to higher resale values. AHFC has special lease incentives on V6 Accords right now.. For specifics, post a message on Lease questions discussion on Finance, Warranty and Insurance board. Car_man will help you out with the info you need.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,514
    I just re-read your post.. Its a 2003? You won't want to lease it. Leasing prior model year cars is usually not a very good deal.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

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  • higgins7higgins7 Member Posts: 24
    Thanks. It is a brand new (zero miles) EX coupe V6 (no navi). 21998 plus tax, title, doc fee. Thanks again.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,514
    Even for one model year old.. If this is the car you really want, I think you'll be better off buying it. Before you agree to any lease deal, ask them for the payment on a 2004. I've got more advice if you are planning to lease, but I'll save it for now. I just turned in our 3rd straight Accord lease, yesterday.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    A whole lot better place is on our Finance, Warranty & Insurance board. Follow that link to see a list of all the discussions underway. As kyfdx mentioned, one that you want to be sure to drop by is Lease Questions - Ask Here.

    Good luck!

    :)
  • brianl0202brianl0202 Member Posts: 26
    i bought a 04 EX V6 just about a month ago. I got the coupe, not sure if u are looking at the coupe or sedan. i paid 24,900+tax and tags and doc fee. this included a spoiler plus dealer installed options-mud flaps, wheel locks, trunk tray, and window etching (which costs extra if you want to register the etching or something which i didnt do). I live in south jersey. i probably could have done a little better on the price but was pressed on time and couldnt negotiate any longer.
  • sr_shahsr_shah Member Posts: 16
    Thanks all for your responses. I think it will be a good idea to start at invoice - holdback and settle at invoice, +- few hundred.
  • timayetimaye Member Posts: 12
    It was a nightmare today at Crest honda, this time it wasnt the salesmman, but it was the manager, for the pass couple of month ive been in contact witht the dealer, they offer to sell at one dollar above invoice but when i came in is a differnt story. they offer for a v6 ex 28,000 not including tax n title with the 9% taxes it will run close to 30g. we wasnt happy with the price so the manager came in to talk, he was tryin too hard to convince us about the price but it didnt work. never gave him a attitude but i was on the offensive, he tooked it the wrong way then went off piss [non-permissible content removed] hell then another manager came in and try to confuse us somemore with the pricing of the car. we got tired so we offer 26,000 out the door. he ask arent u goin to pay taxes?? we like that is a fair price. then he ask me how i came up with that price. i was liek come on i dont need to get in deep but this is the price im willing to paid for this car only, he got piss too becuase i woudnt agree with him. so we decieded to leave and he didnt even borther to shake my hand when i reached out. can someone tell me is 26 grand tooo less or somthing/??/ can somebody tell mee??? thanks to the attitude of the manager crest honda of nashville will never have my family and friend business ever again, they better change the way they do business...
  • ral2167ral2167 Member Posts: 791
    what did you base your $26000 out the door on?

    was it based on the actual invoice of the car, with a profit added? (in other words, how much research did you do ahead of time?)

    or was it a number you just decided you can afford?

    thus far, i'm not much sympathetic to you. but things change. show me you're being reasonable with the $26000 out the door figure.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    Your price looks OK if: 1) sales tax is 6% and TTL is $200, more or less, and 2) negotiation is end-of-month. $26k OTD is roughly $200 over invoice under these parameters.

    As is the nature of highly competitive businesses like car retail, there's almost always month-end pressure to meet sales quota, especially for volume models like the Accord.

    Thus, it's to the buyer's advantage to time the purchase at month-end. This simple strategy worked well for me over the last 14 months, buying 2 Accords - the first at invoice, the second $900 below - when TMV was substantially above invoice.
  • kad153kad153 Member Posts: 22
    I recently posted the following message on here (a few days ago), and have not gotten a single response. I am looking to purchase a 2nd accord pretty soon, and was hoping for some advice...

    ----------------------------------------------
    Purchased 2004 EXV6 Accord in early November. MSRP on car is 26890, invoice is 24244 (including destination). Price I paid out the door, including everything, was $25989.84. The car itself was 24294, which included destination, the wing spoiler (~$500), the auto day-night mirror (~$300), and wheel locks. We first agreed on 23k + destination for car, than added options I wanted. Tax was $1457.64 (6% in NJ), registration was $96.20, doc fee of $142. 1.9% financing and I was done. The car came with 11 miles on it, and has been trouble free.

    Now, I know I have heard about 3% holdback, and other good deals, but remember I got my car on November 8th. How did I do? Please - honestly is what I want - if I didnt get as good a deal as I thought, please let me know.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Thanks
  • skiatlskiatl Member Posts: 20
    I purchased the following the last day of Dec:
    2004 Accord Coupe EX V6 Auto Mud Guards & pinstripes w/o Nav
    23,936
    25,900 OTD w/7% sales tax

    Did my online priceing with two dealers. No hassle, went in with price in hand...test drove it...bought it...paperwork in an hour...best new car buying experience ever.

    Oh yeah...the XM radio is the greatest!
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