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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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Comments

  • edwardh5edwardh5 Member Posts: 130
    who makes the wal mart super tech filter??

    Champion?
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    The Waldomart boxes at least imply that Champion is the maker. I hope it is true. Champion makes very good filters for people who change their oil frequently, so the "research" would indicate.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Went to Wal-Mart and compared the AC-Delco filter for my Elantra with a Super Tech. The AC-Delco appeared identical, down to the tell-tale one large perimiter hole that the Tech 2000 had. The independent filter studies indicate that this is one way to always tell a Champion Labs filter. Does Champion crank 'em out for AC-Delco? Maybe only for the odd brand or non-GM cars?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    and they said that the telltale sign for an AC-Delco filter is five large (equal sized from the looks of it) holes. Sure the filter I saw had six with one larger. My hypothesis is that AC-Delco makes the most popular sizes of filter and rounds off the line with others which are made by Champion Labs.
  • gasguzzgasguzz Member Posts: 214
    I've made the same comparison between the diff brands on our car applications. Yes, there are several instances where the end caps/construction are identical between the brands. That tells me that the Mopar article subjects a specific filter, and it's particular manufacturer. So, does a specific brand stick to a particular maker across the board (?) - I don't think so. However, there are discussions here and elsewhere that makers may conform to specs required by the brand-name. Or, the Walmart filter may be of a quality manufacturer but made to Walmart specs.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    makes two filter lines at the most. They do tout their Lee Maxi filter as a premium and their Lee filter as OEM. If memory serves me right Bosch is also one of their premium lines and Deutsch a little lower quality. They seem to have gotten a hold of various brand names like Bosch and STP, even though they are not related to the primary manufacturer. Interesting licensing. I also see or used to see STP motor oil even though the STP/First Brands web page made no mention of the product. I suspect that brands like that have been passed around plenty over the years.

    I doubt if Wal-Mart writes a separate specification that is lower, it wouldn't make production sense. A company like Champion makes money by making as few changes as possible. Somewhere else (in the last day or two) I did read that Champion also manufactured for AC-Delco. Certainly the Super Tech and AC-Delco filters looked completely identical, although I was unable to cut one apart in the store :>

    I suspect that most of the private brands they sell whether Super Tech, STP or whatever are identical and the lower level line. You could check the boxes and see if they have the quality comparisons with Fram as far as filtering. For most uses, I suspect these filters are plenty good enough. At least they are all metal and not cardboard, something Champion Labs makes a big deal about on their web page.

    I'll continue to insist on Anything But Fram, even though the boobs at Wal-Mart often ignore me.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Surely you are right on the "specifications" thing. If a brand name owner went to a filter manufacturer and made meaningful demands for specifications, the costs would likely be prohibitive for any distributor wanting to be competitive. Now, a brand that can command outrageous prices for a filter, as seems to be the case for Mobil 1, these rules of competition take on a new bent. I don't fall for the hoopla of Mobil 1 filters, or others of that ilk.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    is the same as AC. The Super Techs I saw had

    O-Rings seal. Also the efficiencies of AC apparrently is not very good (SuperTech is 98%/94% Single Pass/Multi-Pass.)


    http://www.pureoil.com/faq.htm


    Also, not arguing that Mobil1 isn't overpriced, but they do have the Fiberglass Media which is a depth filter vs Paper which is a surface media.

  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    "AC Delco Duraguard PF60
    This filter is very much like the Deutsch unit, which is similar to the Bosch filter (manufactured by Champion Laboratories). It has the Bosch cartridge design, but uses a different filter element (similar to other AC Delco elements). Like the Deutsch filter, the backplate has 8 round inlet holes with one larger than the others. The AC Delco catalog lists the PF56 as an equivalent filter, but I could not find it to test."

    So maybe there's not two different levels of Champion Labs filters after all if Deutsch and Bosch are the same. And, maybe AC Delco does specify a different filter medium, meaning that Champion Labs may make some, but not all of their filters. I still think that they might make GM filters themselves and farm the rest out to Champion Labs.

    I couldn't find any more references to the test quoted in the Pure 1 web page. It's interesting that they have the Fram filter listed as the second best, after their own.
  • gasguzzgasguzz Member Posts: 214
    Yes, Csand. My case in point is that my AC-Duraguard application have identical markings/construction with the Mobil-1 x-ref (apparently the diff is the filter media). So it is quite possible that the manufacturer may make one configuration among several brands, but I wouldn't take that as a given.
    I can also understand the marketing dynamics in how Champion can make a "Walmart" filter just by repainting it.
  • ocelot1ocelot1 Member Posts: 101
    I used pureone for about 5years before I found this new ACDelco filter I was impressed by there testing they reported. Its a all synthetic filter media With a steel mesh backing. www.acdelco.com I like pureone but I think I've experenced a couple of weak( anti drain back )valves, on occasional startups I here lifter noise.I use the chevron synthetic 0w-30 5w-30or 10w-30 which ever I have on hand. I would'nt mind some comments on their site?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    True, Champion may just repaint the same filter and sell it under STP or whatever but some manufacturers, like Baldwin, make the guts of the filter to specs and they will differ inside based upon the brand they are making them for. So, outside may look similar but unless you gut them open you will never know.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    WHOSE IS BEST, AND WHY--
    I nominate (hoping for pro/con discussion) the WALMART house brand filters, SUPER TECH, as a candidate. Reasons:
    1. Manufactured by one of the most reputable makers.
    2. Universal availability.
    3. Backed by an outstanding American retail chain.
    4. No bad publicity to mar acceptability.
    5. The prices make these filters a fine bargain.
    True, they may not be for everybody for every application, but overall, what is more optimal in value for the consumer?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    from a number of sources. AutoZone sells the same thing as an STP at about the same price. Formerly AutoZone had Deutsch and Wal-Mart sold STP.

    If you like dino oil and don't want to change your own, Wal-Mart will do it with Tech2000 (Quaker State) for under $12. That's a pretty good deal. Only problem with that is that I constantly have to fight with 'em or they'll put a Fram filter on instead of a Tech 2000. Next time I'm going to put a big NO-FRAM sign up on the instrument panel.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    But their efficiencies are not as high as Pure 1 and Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is probably the best because they use Fiberglass media and apparently the construction is super heavy. Walmart might give you your money back if the thing destroyed your car. Probably it(Supertech) is the best value for the money. But I hate store brands because they can change suppliers and I really don't know what I am getting.Couple of bucks extra is a small price to pay for a top line oil filter. Again I'm not knocking it. You asked.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    A small time parts chain was selling phony oil which failed to meet any kind of standards in counterfit bottles. Did the same with filters if I remember correctly (this was probably ten years ago.) Always thought at the time that at least a chain like Wal-Mart can be trusted to control their suppliers. This is another reason why I would trust a large gas retailer who doesn't refine (like QuikTrip) to a mom and pop gas station with a major brand. The more control in the supply chain the better. Besides who's going to counterfit a "SuperTech" box? Do agree that they can change suppliers on short notice. Think K-Mart's filters used to be Purolator, don't even know if they sell a separate Penske line anymore, don't think so. Primary problem would be if they started selling Fram. If Quaker State supplies oil as Tech2000 and Quaker State filters are Fram, this could happen if the bid to Wal-Mart was right.
  • edwardh5edwardh5 Member Posts: 130
  • edwardh5edwardh5 Member Posts: 130
    wal mart is into "cheap", not necessarily best value.
    As a result I think they would change suppliers in a heartbeat.
    try writing their national HQ about a problem - they don't answer.
    why did they creat "supertech" except for low price?
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I would answer by saying that Walmart contracts to have a good manufacturer supply their good product with a Walmart brand name on it so that Walmart can sell that product for less money while not jeopardizing the manufacturer's relationships with other retailers of that same filter.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    tboner--

    I don't hot-rod in my 95 Contour SE MTX (rarely above 5k RPMs). I use Mobil1 5W30 and the Motorcraft FL820S filter, and change both every 5k miles (thinking about bumping that to 6k) which is about 4 months for me. How much of a risk do you really think it is, to be running the 820 filter?

    I always heard the 820 was a great filter-- Pure One quality at a Motorcraft price (I buy them at WalMart for $2.97). That's why I use them.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    The Isuzu brand filter I use for my 98 Trooper says "Made in USA" and "Filtech Inc." on it. I see a few positive comments about Filtech-made filters (some or all of Honda's OEM filters, etc.). Just wondering if there are any more comments out there about Filtech-made filters.

    Jake, the expert Isuzu mechanic on the now-defunct Ask Jake forum at www.itog.com (Isuzu Trooper Owners Guild), always swore by genuine Isuzu oil filters.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    As they are so inexpensive why not cut one open and look at the consturction?

    I sort of concur though that Wal-Mart is into price more then quality and it make sno difference who makes the filter it is what is inside and the quality of the inside parts.

    So for $2 cut one open!
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    Well I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV, so if you drive like 90% of the public does, you are probably fine with the Motorcraft filter.

    I tend to see the redline (7K) several times a day when I'm out playing in my SVT Contour and I've been know to try to do better than double the recommended speeds in exit ramp corners, so I tend to believe the higher flow ratings of the K&N are better than the superior filtering of the PureOne/Motorcraft unit. Of course this is my weekend fun car, I drive the '87 LeSabre M-F for my work ride.

    I use 5W30 Mobil One and the K&N 2010 every 5K miles or 6 months, mostly because I can sleep better at night.

    If I still blow an engine due to oil starvation... Well, that's simply an opportunity to mate the 3L Duratec bottom end with the SVT heads and have an even more powerful SVT 8^)

    Hope this helps.

    TB
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I also checked out the K&N filter and after thinking about it, I believe the high flow claim is a bogus issue. The flow you get in your oil system is a function of all the resistances in the flow path. Certainly the filter is one of those elements. But I m guessing it is not even the major one. The back pressure is caused by the bearing clearances, delivery points and lengths of drilled ports and oil gallerys. So while it sounds good that the filter can pas 12 gal. per minute. Its not really the determining factoy. Its like getting a 200 foot long 3/8" I.D. garden hose and then splicing in a piece of 3/4" hose and expecting the flow to go up. In my humble opinion a Pure-1 or Mobil 1 with the higher efficiencies and changed more frequently are the way to go.
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    The Motorcraft filter FL820S seems to be rated at only 3gpm. So if the pump is rated at much more than that (12+ GPM if I recall) then that is a significant obstacle. While I agree there are other obstacles in the engine, the oil has to reach there in the first place. So I feel better knowing the oil filter will not be most restrictive point in the oiling system.

    I don't believe that the K&N will increase the potential oil flow to the top of the engine. But I do believe that a restrictive oil filter can prevent ever reaching the maximum flow in those other areas.

    TB
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    The Wal-Mart filter is the standard Champion Labs unit. The Mo-Par study cut a number of them open, they are all pretty much alike. Of course in those days Wal-Mart was selling STP which has now moved over to Auto Zone. My assumption is that there's no difference in any of them.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Thats true..and I guesss its best to error on the side of being conservative. The trade off is the filtering efficiency. Like any engineering problem there is usually no one "perfect" solution. And neither one of knows if the greater flow outweighs the possible slightly extra wear due to less filtering ability. The fact that the K&N has fiberglass filtering media makes your argument a little stronger than mine. It does have fiberglass, right??
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    thanks for the feedback. With my driving habits, I don't think there's any need for the higher flow rate of the K&N filter. I'll probably stick with the Motorcraft.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I was at Wal-Mart today and noticed the signs on the shelves said "Champion Labs Inc." in smaller type, above the "Super Tech model #xxxxx" text. I saw signs for several different filters, and all of them said 'Champion Labs.'

    BTW, the Super Tech ATF said "Quaker State" in small type above the "Super Tech" text. $4.17 per gallon - not bad.
  • pittdppittdp Member Posts: 7
    I have always used Mazda filters on my rx7 and my new protege 5. Should this be fine or should I go with a different filter? I am going to be using Mobil 1 with the protege 5, would the OEM filter that mazda sales be fine or should I go with the Mobil 1 filter?
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    Quoted Shamelessly from their website:


    "What makes K&N oil filters better?

    The K&N Performance Gold® Oil Filter has been constructed from the ground up to satisfy the high performance needs of race car owners and drivers, as well as the average vehicle owner who wants the very best oil filter available. Our oil filter's efficiency rating meets or exceeds the requirements of high performance automotive engine builders. The heavy duty construction provides over 550 PSI hydrostatic burst*, and helps reduce the risk of rock and stone damage.


    The real quality isn't just on the outside... the inner filter element traps contaminant as small as 10 to 20 microns in size. We use metal top end caps instead of paper to ensure that no unfiltered oil can get back into the system. The solid construction allows for oil flow rates between 12-16 gpm (depending on filter size), and is unaffected by racing fuels. All K&N Performance Gold® Oil Filters are manufactured to exacting engineering standards. They are covered by a limited warranty to be free from defects in materials and workmanship when installed and replaced using engine and equipment manufacturers recommended service interval.


    *Based on HP-3001 performance test"


    http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm


    So I dunno if it is Fiberglass or an "enhanced paper element" but I do know that it will not be the element that prevents oil from getting to the top of the engine or into the bearings.


    Yes, I have made the conscious decision that even dirty oil readily available is superior to ultra clean oil that cannot be pumped to the parts that need it.


    TB

  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    My experience has been that regardles of the OEm filter that Mobil 1, Pure One and Amsoil are better filters. So if you are going with Mobil 1 why not go all the way.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Probably even Fram would be able to clain a lot of these points. This one cracks me up::"... the inner filter element traps contaminant as small as 10 to 20 microns in size. " Any filter (even Fram) will trap those size particles. The question is with what eficiency- 5%, 10%. Notice they did not reference standard SAE single and multipass tests? Again - having said that- its probably a good filter.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilter-fram1.txt


    I had looked at the MoPar study on a number of occasions, I forgot just how bad the confessions of the Fram engineer were however. Scary stuff, indeed. I'm going to paste this to my dashboard along with a large sign instructing the Wal-Mart flunkies to use their own brand oil filter and to keep the Fram stuff off my car!

  • acuraowneracuraowner Member Posts: 57
    I used Fram filters for a very short period of time (I wish other filters had those handy dandy grips) and the difference was very noticeable. Even if my car had sat for only about 30 minutes I had horrible valvetrain noise for a few seconds on startup. My car had never done that before and I didnt know much about the construction of oil filters then. Ever since going back to getting my oil changed at Texaco Xpress Lube no more noisy valvetrain on startup.

    Anyways, I read on some MR2 website that Toyota filters are even worse then Fram filters. Does anyone know who builds Toyota filters? Also does anyone know who builds Honda filters?

    Thanks
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Sorry, I can't help you with Toyota filters.

    Honda filters are either very good or sorta poor. The made-in-USA Honda filters are made by a company called Filtech. These are EXCELLENT. I'd use these above just about any other brand of filter.

    There is also a smaller, lighter filter made in Canada which is ... with God as my witness ... a Fram filter cartridge in a higher-quality canister ... probably assembled by Fram. Yes, I cut them open and saw the cardboard and all!

    >:^O

    I now use Hastings filters (LF-402, I think) instead of OEM Honda because my usual outlets for OEM parts have switched over to the Canadian filters. <:^(

    --- Bror Jace
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I mailed Amsoil a letter yesterday specifically asking one question. Since we know that Hastings (actually Baldwin as Hasting sold out years ago to them and are only a marketing name) manufactures Amsoil filters and Amsoil consistently publishes data on how their filters are better then Hastings I asked them specifically to verify if the Amsoil filters (manufactured in the same plant) are made to different specifications and use different components then Hastings. I have seen some people claim if they cut both open they are exactly the same inside.

    I will post their reply when received. By the way, Amsoil rates their filter first follwed by Mobil 1 and Hard Driver (very close 2nd and 3rd ratings, I mean very close to Amsoil) followed by Hastings followed by Pure One.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Those SuperTech filters at Waldomart are looking better and better as the flim-flam surfaces on the illogical claims...
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    The Isuzu brand filters I use for our 98 Trooper say "Filtech Inc." on the outside. Can I safely assume that this filter, like the OEM Honda filters made by Filtech, is quality filter?
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    I use the AC PF52 filter for the Chev 4.3 v6 motor, I normally buy them at Kmart for $2.50 when they are on sale , normally less than $3 anyhow...

    I was just at Walmart and was looking at those Supertech filters and compared it to the PF52 at Walmart...Comparing the 2 filters for that motor surprised me! other than the color of the can and the size/number of the oil inlet holes( the Supertech had the normal Champion signature 1-large inlet hole bigger than the others..)..the 2 filters are the same inside, looking at the 2 they are identical when looking inside oil outlet hole. The AC PF52 sold at Walmart is NOT the same as the AC PF52 sold at Kmart or other places. If you really want the AC filter go across the street and get it from Kmart, If you want it from Walmart just get the Supertech , its the same(at Walmart anyway) and only costs $2, oh yeah, they sell Fram too, get the supertech!

    I found a page that has a comparison photo of the AC PF44 and the UPF44(Ultraguard gold version) BIIGGG difference , also $2.50 vs $10...

    check it out


    http://www.cau-llc.com/acdelco.htm

    see y'all

  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    The PF 52 can be substituted for the PF 47 if there is room. The head and threads are the same on both. The GM 3.1,3.3,3.4 L are all on the bottem of the block and there could be too much of the filter hanging down. I'm sure they will fit in the 2.2 4 cyl variety. I'll find out. Pure One has an equal for the the PF 52- I believe its PL 25111, don't quote me on the #.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    How can this possibly be two different filters simply because it is sold at different chains. If it si AC, I would find it hard to believe, the guts are different depending on where it is sold? You imply that AC alters th especifications depending on who the mass merchandiser is
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Some time ago, I noted a difference between STP filters between Walmart and Autozone. I concluded that the Walmart filters were part of the "old stock" and the Autozone STP's were part of the new batch used to replace Deutsch. I didn't CUT into any of them.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Apparently multiple manufacturers are fairly common for OEM type filters...

    This is on the separate web page for Mopar filters, it links to the overall study:

    http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy-mopar.html

    "3549957
    I purchased this filter from two places, to prove a point. The point is that Mopar filters are like a box of chocolates; you never know what you are going to get. In fact, this seems to be true of many OEM and some clone-brand filters. I purchased one filter from my local dealer and the other from a nearby store that stocks some Mopar parts (Murray's Auto Parts). Though the Mopar part numbers are the same, the filters are completely different. You can identify the manufacturer of a particular filter by looking at the backplate. See the AC Delco, Champion, Fram, Purolator, and Wix sections for the details on what to look for."
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    That's what I'd guess.

    Buy one, use it and cut it open afterwards to see if the innards look like they are well constructed. An OEM filter may not be the best ... but it won't be damaging/dreadful.

    --- Bror Jace
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    Just tellin it like I see it, the thing that surprised me most was that the PF52 is a filter for a common GM motor.... I would not be as surprised if it was an AC filter for a non-GM motor, but anyway, I will either get the AC PF52 from Kmart, or get another brand from somewhere else, If I have to get it at Walmart I will save the $.73 and get the Supertech....probably not a major difference especially at that cost.......HHMMM at that cost I could probably start changing filter every 1000 miles and just top off the oil.....Just kidding....like CSANDSTE quoted from the MOPAR article...looks like any brand can have multiple manufacturers , in this case Walmart may have worked a CHEAP deal with AC.
    I don't really push the oil anyway, change every 3k, even cheap filters should handle that.
    And when my wife wants to go shopping at Walmart, I say ok, I'll be in the sporting goods/auto department...looking at filters....
    and pointing some serious prayers towards NY and Washington DC
    see y'all
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    Who makes the Castrol oil filters, Kmart has them on sale this week-they any good?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    This would be from memory but my guess would be that they're both Purolators. I couldn't tell any difference between Penske and Castrol the last time I was in K-Mart. The filtering medium might be different, but I doubt it.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    The cannister for the Super-Tech (welcome to Wal-Mart) filter's appears to be the same as -would you believe- Mobil 1. There is a "Y" stamped on the inlet/outlet head and the inside looks the same. Including the bypass valve. I suspect that the cannister/guts for most filters are either made my Champion or Hastings Pure one's are different-hard to tell who makes 'em.

    BTW I noticed that some of the Pure-One filters call for a relief presssure of 10-14 pounds in some filters which have no visible bypass valve. Whats up with that???
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Seems every time we turn around, somebody is dropping info that further agrandizes SUPER TECH. Mobil 1 similarities? Maybe we should move them up to near the top of the class...
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