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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?
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Comments
Jodar96
You lucky dog! Being able to get the best filters made for those prices should be a crime!
mcalcankiller
You're absolutely right about Fram filters. They're junk, stay away from them. Mobil's and Purolator's filters are the best, even better than OEM.
Fwatson
As with oil, you get what you pay for with oil filters. $3 filters are not equal to, or superior to $10 filters. There isn't a $3 filter on the market that will compare to Mobil's or Purolator's filters.
As you obviously refuse to believe the results of the minimopar and other tests, there is no way to convince you otherwise. Good luck with your $10 filters.
Lets see, at $7 difference and about 200 filters, I have saved, in todays dollars, about $1400 with not one split case, nor engine failure.
I will go with my 43 years of car ownership experience and stick with the excellent Wix and Champion $3 filters.
2. Some brands (AC) aren't always what they seem. Some companies make part of a line and farm the rest out.
3. OEM suppliers aren't reliable, Canadian Honda OEM's are Frams.
4. Apparently the Mobil 1 has a better filtering medium, and it's been described as a better filter (as far as heavy construction) in MiniMopar and Acura (I think) studies, but the stories of splitting are troubling.
5. I agree w. fwatson that there are plenty of good low cost Champion and Wix filters out there, although KMart's dropping of Wix for (gag) Fram is a loss.
6. In the case of Fram, you definitely don't get what you pay for. No Fram is my only rule in life.
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
Since those filters are using thicker sheet metal for the can, it is possible the crimping machine cannot handle that thickness properly when sealing the edges...sometimes over-engineering can be as bad as under-engineering. They are not worth $10 to me, but as with everything else on here....if it makes you happy, use it.
If anyone busts a filter (any filter) due to over-pressure, they have other problems to worry about. The busted filter would have just been a symptom of another problem,,,like a stuck internal pressure relief valve at the pump...
Any filter that filters at too fine a level starts decreasing flow at higher rpm, and does it more as time goes by as it gradually starts plugging up...definitely NOT good for using in extended drain intervals.
Personally I would rather have higher oil flowrates rather than having ultra-clean oil at lower flowrates.
I've read several oil filter tests, and they all said Mobil and Purolator make the best filters. None of them have said Wix and/or Champions were as good.
Like many, I'm frugal, but I won't scimp when it comes to my oil or filters. Those who use $.95 oil and $3 filters are just asking for trouble. You might as well take the money you're saving by buying the cheap stuff, and put it away for for that certain premature engine, or car replacment. I don't get 200+K miles out of my cars by running the cheap stuff!
zr2rando
I don't now why so many people are making such a big deal about the Mobil filter splitting. It was one, isolated incident, which under the same conditions, there isn't a filter made that wouldn't have split.
You are very adamant in your opinion that only $4 oil and $10 filters will keep a car running. I understand you wanting to put the best oil and filter made on your car and commend you for it. I also realize you have read numerous online lab tests that have convinced you of these opinions. I know you will never agree but it is POSSIBLE that other regimens will work just as well - only time will tell.
You can put a concrete bridge over a 2 foot wide creek too,
don't need to, but you can if you want....
Millions of people have. Confusing price and quality only wastes money. I keep my cars until they are no longer worth more than $1500. So far in 43 years I have had one Renault Dauphine that the engine failed. That had nothing to do with the oil or filter. It had to do with a piece of crap engine that was good for about 20000 miles. I have not counted how many cars I have had in my life, around 20 I would guess. But that is the only one that had engine failure, and I have never bought a so called premium filter, or high priced oil.
That said, Mobile 1 is a Champion filter, as is K&N. Contrary to your experience, the oil filter tests I have read have all rated Wix and Champion filters as excellent, and go out of their way to recommend them.
It's your money, spend it as you wish.
I'm sure the Mobil1's are good filters, but as always, high filter efficiency has a cost----it shortens the service life of the filter because it DOES catch more particles...unless it REALLY has alot of extra media in it, it will clog sooner. It may do a better job, but it WON'T last forever(3-4k miles may be no problem but 10-15k miles???)..it will start bypassing when it causes enough back-pressure and then the filter game is over until it is replaced anyway...
Are you serious? I guess I'll be as nice as I can and respectfully disagree, as several others have done already.
"Mobil 1
M1-301
Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which inproves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is NOT a fake. It is definitely a unique design.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.
I have received many reports of these filters failing at high pressures. It seems that the seam where the backplate crimps to the case can split."
From the North Texas Acura filter study
http://ntpog.server101.com/reviews/filters/filters.shtml
"Comments:
The Mobil 1 appears to be of excellent quality. The Bosch, Mobil 1, and STP appear to all use identical materials and construction, with only the Mobil 1 having a different filter media (appears to be coated- darker color). I can't comment on the effectiveness or any additional filtering or benefit to the Mobil 1 filter, though Mobil 1 claims it's more effective. The pleat seperation/uniformity appears better than the or Bosch filter. The Bosch, Mobil 1, and STP bypass valve utilizes a stiffer spring than any of the others and a rubber seat/seal which should help prevent leakage. Check out the last pic for a shot of a used Mobil 1- this is a 1 month old filter with 1000 hard miles and conventional (non synthetic) oil. Let this be a reminder to you to change your filter regularly!"
I went so far as to cut open each(WM and ST).Needless to say,I'm using a $1.78 Walmart(with fiberglass in media).Since the filter is only $1.78,I'll need a new engine even sooner than the $3.00 filter users(bottgers wisdom).
They are as good a quality filter as any I have bought in the last several years (I cut them all up to check'em too)...which means I've been getting ABF filters (Anything But Fram!!)...I do the 3k change thing with Havoline/Chevron oil. Some things require High $$$$ parts, some things just require VERY routine attention, which is what I put oil/filters/grease in that category.
Only thing I can actually say good about synthetic oils is that it gives everyone a new bar to check out ....ever see a deer walk up to a fence, sniff it, then jump it?
see ya
I don't understand logically how these things work-- Does a lower dipstick reading at time of filter change explain why less oil came out when the filter was removed?
I am running Mobil 1 5W30 in this vehicle and Purolator Pure One filters. The oil had about 3,500 miles on it. A filter change can't hurt and might help. With 3,500 miles on the oil, I was either going to do nothing at or change only the filter. So changing the filter in the middle of the oil change interval is a more costly approach than simply letting the filter go the same 6-7,000 miles as the oil.
Consider:
1) The vehicle is running synthetic oil; and
2) All synthetics should be worshipped because they are the only oils that will protect your engine from blowing up; and
3) ALL synthetics can safely go 10,000 miles in ANY vehicle without the need for oil analysis.
Therefore, I thought it was smart NOT to change the oil at such a premature interval (3,500 miles). #s 2 and 3 are straight out of your playbook, bottgers. Can you smell the sarcasm?
Seriously, I think changing a real synthetic such as Mobil 1 at 3-4k miles is overkill and that 5-6k miles is safe without oil analysis, but I'm not convinced that it's totally safe to leave a filter on for 6,000 miles or so. That's why I changed the filter.
Do you think you're getting your money's worth with an $8 Fram filter?
You ignore 90% of what people post on these boards.
Key point: removing the filter and not starting the engine doesn't change level-if that makes sense.
Is there any logic to this: the amount of oil in the engine (crankcase?), as indicated by the dipstick, has an effect on how much oil is in a horizontally-mounted filter?
I'm just trying to figure out why I got so much more oil out the first time I replaced the filter vs. the second time.
SuperTech is the least expensive full syn I've found. I use it because it offers the benefits of full syn without having to pay $4 a quart. It may not be as good as some of the $4 oils, but I'm sure it's at least as good, and probably better than most of the dinos.
On the contrary, I don't ignore any of the posts in here. I just find it hard to agree with them when 90% go against everything I've taken in over the last 10 years or so about motor oil and filters.
I change oil on our fleets trannys on a regular basis and always see lots of irony crud on the pan magnet, usually takes 3 brushings with varsol and then blown off to get it all off.
Of course magnets don't catch dirt, but with a tight air intake of clean air there shouldn't be much coming down past the piston rings, right?
Probably, the greatest oil filter in the world can't save an engine that has a dirt leak, even of the smallest nature. Gets to another question of what usually wears out first on the engine.
I would say a lack of compression on one or all cylinders would cause the most chagrin for the auto owner, this usually being a valve face to seat problem, a) normal wear out b)lack of resetting clearances causing burning c) poor part quality d) dirt leaking into the intake air.
Same dirt would affect piston rings and wear them to the point of causing a poor seal, causing low compression, poor power, oil burning, etc. How many people actually drive a vehicle till it developes a piston/main bearing/rod bearing knock from natural wearout?
What am I trying to get to? Find a good oil and a good filter, but don't forget all the other stuff like air filters and tubes, buy a quality engine to begin with, and maintain the valve clearances. To bad all this can still be wiped out by a sudden water pump or heater hose failure that cooks the alum. heads to warpage, etc.
Sorry for the rambling....
So,which is it gonna be?Your credibility is in question.
Maybe now we can get back to gaining valuable information from this forum.
I have seen metal on a drain plug,but I assume it collects the "fall out" from a long period of non-use(overnight).
I suppose cutting open a filter would tell?
adc100:the last Champion made SuperTech I got says on the box that it has a special "fiber-enhanced" filter media.I'm not saying it's the same as in a Mobil-1 filter.It's unlikely that it is the same.Nonetheless,it's impressive to have this media in a $1.78 filter!
bluedevils: There is no difference in the operation of the horizontal mount filter. Remember the filter is above the level of the sump and oil must be pumped from the oil pump into the inlet (little holes) and comes out the larger hole on its way to the bearings, etc. Problem with the horizontal filter is that you can check the dipstick level at night and in the morning the antidrainback valve under the holes leaks and your dipstick level in the morning can be higher. But in a perfect world the filter stays full and works just like the vertical mount. Another problem with horizontal mount you really can't fill them up with oil before screwing it on. I really think that engines with vertical mount filters last longer. (Speculation on my part) Notice how the engine clatters for want of oil every time you change it? Yet another reason not to change oil so frequently.
Later
Al
bottgers:"Whatever blows your dress up".I'll happily use my Chevron SL.There.You can have the LAST WORD!
Go longer, now that is where quality may pay off. Every 3000, I believe it makes no diff what you use because you are getting it out of there before any dirt or wear material builds up and is significant enough to cause premature engine failure and before the oil begins to break down from heat, shearing, etc..
I'm due to change the oil and filter this week and I think I'll cut the filter open to see if it snagged anything in 6 days. This really doesn't cost much and you re-use the magnets over and over. If it does catch anything the particles would have to be small enough to pass through any space that is between the casing and the filter element or pulled from the filter element itself. Just a thought.
If there is, it would also be interesting to know the particle sizes of this metal, to see if it would have passed through the filter media, back on another merry pass through the bearings, cam surfaces, etc.
It probably would be of the most use to have extra magnets in the oil pan, to catch all the settling metal when the engine sits still. However, too much hassle to remove pan occasionally to clean them. Hey, why not an oil pan with a removable bottom?
I have a 223 cu in straight six '57 Ford PU with 208000 miles on it (never overhauled, or even a valve job) that has had nothing but inexpensive filters, and for most of it's life Quaker State oil. Now it has Supertech in it, and a Motorcraft FL-1A filter. That was what WalMart had on sale at that time. I had the heads off, and removed and cleaned the oil pan about a year ago. There was no sign of metal particles anywhere, and the cylinder walls are smooth and shiny. It burns no oil, and has only a slight weeping at the back of the rocker arm cover. Even the rear main seal is leak free.
The only real leak is from the rear seal on the 3 speed transmission. That will be a very simple repair.
LOL, that brings back a lot of memories. Yes, they also rusted out. The whole front suspension fell off mine. Oh well, it didn't make much difference, the engine was shot again anyway. When the engine broke the first time, my father in law came out to tow me in with his late '50s Chrysler 300. He must have been totally crazy, because that was the only time my Renault got past that magical 55. In fact according to my mother in law who was riding with him (I was in the Renault) he was going more than 80. I was never so scared in my life.
I have also noticed the "simca" in your name. Another gem. You must have been a real glutton for punishment.
Quote frule:"Just think how long that truck would've lasted with synthetic oil!:)
Plus if I had used KN or Mobile 1 filters I'd never be able to wear it out.:-)
I remember our neighbors'Dauphine(baby blue) breaking down:) and four guys carried it to their back yard to "fix it up"!
Plywood floorboard!My '59 Studebaker Wagon had a cardboard floorboard(removable for summers-heater worked year-round;didn't heat worth a damn except in the summer).
It was quite the babe-magnet,with it's "vinyl tape" reupholstery job(previous owner used red,white,and blue tape in alternating strips on all seating surfaces).Ah,the good ole days!
As I recall, the Renault Dauphine was a mid 50's phenomenon, right? Mine was old and wasted when I got it in the late 60's.
And you know what? If the French import the current iterations of these wonder cars, I'll look with an eye toward buying. Some of us never learn!
Oh, yeah! The Caddy had one of those nasty cans with removable oil filter elements. What a mess! The pragmatic French didn't waste time with filters, as I recall...
The Dauphine however, was a four door sedan with conventionally opening doors, unlike the "suicide" doors of the 4CV. The wheelbase of the Dauphine was six inches longer than the 4CV, and the overall length of the car was 12 inches longer. The drivetrain arrangement was nearly identical to that of the 4CV (rear engine, water cooled, in-line four), but the engine capacity was raised from 760cc to 845cc, and the horsepower was increased from 19hp to 32hp. 0-60mph time was calculated by Road and Track magazine to be an amazing 32 seconds!
Over the years that the Dauphine was produced (1956-1968), a few "high performance" options were available. For the 1957 model year Amedee Gordini engineered a version of the Dauphine with certain engine modifications that increased the horsepower about 20%, from 32hp to 38hp. In 1961 the Gordini Dauphine's horsepower was upped again, this time to 40hp. The Gordini Dauphine had special trim and a special green & black steering wheel to distinguish it from the standard Dauphine.
The Ondine was a luxury version of the Dauphine sold during 1961 & 1962.