Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

amorales · December 2001

CHAMPION LABS is the best. I use Mobil 1 and AC Delco PF filters. BTW i used Fram filters by Allied Signal for over 25 years with no PROBLEMO. Hmmmm.

gjo · December 2001

Who makes the best filter? Until there is some better data to judge efficiency ratings vs. micron ratings. Beta ratings and iso code for particle count/size might be a start with flow data also. Yes there are SAE tests, but we have tests, single pass and multiple pass. Oil filter manufactures use modified versions in their ads, so no apples to apples comparison tests for the consumer. My opinion on Mobil 1 filter too expensive for what you get. I had two filters with bad anti-drain valves. According to ACDelco test on their web page the Mobil 1 is the second worst oil filter on oil flow. Oil has to go thru the filter first. ACDelco might have been the best filter with their synthetic filter element, but due to poor marketing and poor distribution (PEP boys only?) it was due to fail before it started. It had high flow and great advertised efficiency rating. Pure one is one of the best filter deals out there. Not real expensive, flow equals a standard filter and a web page link I came across had it better than Mobil 1 filter in SAE efficiency rating. With the silicon anti-drain valve should help seal all the time. Until someone will independently test all the oil filters on the market with a full array of tests the consumer will just have to muddle thru advertised data (which must be taken with a grain of salt) and hope for the best. If someone can prove thru a battery of tests that an oil filter is superior to others on the market, I will buy in a second at just about any cost.

csandste · January 2002

stated that the Mobil 1 filter was constructed better than the other Champion Labs filters and still there were reports of failures. Too much pressure IMHO.

I find the $11.99 Wal-Mart dino fill a good value, but insist that they replace the Fram with a Super Tech. Anything but Fram and I'm happy. Don't really think the Wal-Mart Champion Labs filter is better than a Penske (Wix) from K-Mart, but think both of them are very good values. I do think the Penske is the same exact filter as the base Castrol for less money. Filtering data is the same for both filters.

The original MiniMopar study (removed from most sites) was critical of Champion Labs for having flimsier media and some rust. Remember the older Champion Labs filters as having a slight bit of surface rust but that has been cleaned up for a couple of years now and the media looks just fine to me. Our filtering media expert has been careful not to recommend brands of filters but did state that the media in the SuperTech filter was first rate, so I'm happy.

I'm disturbed that so many OEM filters (i.e. Canadian Hondas) are in fact Fram. All it takes is seeing one of those filters cut apart (they are displayed in many AutoZones) and you can tell why anyone should be nervous.

I usually hang large signs over my dash before going into Wal-Mart stating "NO FRAM ALLOWED, use SuperTech."

wain · January 2002

anything built to wal mart specs is bottom end.
wal mart sells on price.
if its not a national name brand, look out.

adc100 · January 2002

Their SuperTech is a very good filter-made by Chambion Labs with a 98/94% efficiency.

zr2rando · January 2002

Remember that high efficiency usually results in lower flow rate and quicker filter blockage (like the example of the air filter in your house, stays clean for a while then starts getting dirtier faster getting more and more efficient and finally stopping all the way up), unless the filter has extrapaper to accomodate a longer service life it would start bypassing fairly early in life. Not saying the Supertech is a bad filter (I'm sure they are way above Fram in all respects), but it is probably worth looking at (cutting open after use to see how well it is put together and how much paper/pleat depth etc)
Champion may make good filters but they probably have different quality/defect levels for each of the various generic customers they build for,,,Walmart may only require 1/xx defective and someone else may require 1/xxx defect rate, customer would probably never know. They are probably VERY good for the cost (same thing for Kmart generic/Penski/Wix-Castrol..), but I would not use them for extended intervals.

etech · January 2002

Is anyone using the Bosch Premium Oil Filters?

http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/Filters/PremiumOilFilters/

They seem to be a middle of the grade filter somewhere between the $2 regular paper filters and the $10 and higher premiums. I saw them for sale for $5 at AutoZone the other day. They use a mix of paper and synthetic fiber. They advertise the case as being stronger.

A post on another board said the paper element is good for filtering around 20 microns, the paper and synthetic around 15 microns and the full synthetics down to 10 microns. I realize it is more complicated than that but as a rough estimate it seemed applicable.

Does anyone know which Bosch would cross to the MobileOne M1-301? For $8 less I might switch to them.

gjo, lower flow of the high efficiency filters is one of the reasons I am using a oversize filter on my Jeep. The larger size should help with both flow and time until plugged.

csandste · January 2002

for crappy products? Their filters are pretty standard Champion Labs products identical to STP, Lee, Deutsch or a host of other Champion Labs brands. I think Champion Labs and Wix are two of the better filter manufacturers. I use a 4000 mile change interval and any standard filter should do fine in that environment.

Their oil is standard off the shelf Quaker State. They don't set up special refineries to blend private label products with inferior specifications. They are still ILSAC2, not ILSAC3, but I suspect that is just a matter of working old stock out of the distribution system.

I'm always amazed at the people who will order the name brand oil change at Wal-Mart and then specify Quaker State, turns out that they're paying an additional $5 for the identical product.

zr2rando · January 2002

builds to contracted specifications. Wix and Champion both probably make the product to a certain minimum quality level. The company (Kmart/Walmart) that buys the product would just contract a certain minimum quality level to get a certain minimum price...I would imagine the manufacturer has their own minimum quality level to suit all buyers and just maintains that level above any contracted minimum....these days sadly nobody seems to overperform....
I doubt that Walmart would purposely contract for crappy products....I'm sure they would contract for a minimum price though..they know who they are competing with..
2 people running through the woods being chased by a bear, Jeff says to Jack do you think we can outrun him? Jack says to Jeff,,I don't know I only have to outrun YOU!
Catch my drift?
I'm sure they both are good enough, if one gets a little better, you can bet the other one will too.
later folks
Rando

csandste · January 2002

Champion Labs stuff, which happens to be a pretty good filter. They could switch suppliers at any time and the SuperTech filter could be Fram. But, this also happens with OEM makes, witness the varying types of AC filters at K-Mart and Wal-Mart. Bet you that AC makes a certain amount of filters for GM products and farms the rest out to the lowest bidder. The same with Honda of Canada which does use Frams.

From my point, my only no no is to avoid Fram oil filters at any price. I agree that Champion Labs higher end products (Mobil, Bosch?) probably have better filtering media, but think that high filtration has a certain risk itself. Sticking with a 4K oil change should minimize filter troubles anyway.

Same with oil. Wal-Mart's house brand could be Valvoline at any time rather than Quaker State. Depends on the low bidder when they let the next contract. In my mind it's no big deal as long as I don't greatly extend the drain interval.

I do think the new SL/ILSAC 3 grades will be a big improvement since they will have a synthetic component.

tsjay · January 2002

Guys, without going into details or revealing who I have talked to at Champion Labs, just let me say that there is no reason to worry about the quality of the Super Tech filters. They are as good as any out there in the same price range.

tom

rbruehl · January 2002

I recommend K&N oil filters if you can find them. They are probably the best filter built on the market.

http://www.knfilters.com/

csandste · January 2002

etech's comments about Bosch filters having heavier duty construction match the Minimopar? comments about Mobil filters having especially heavy duty construction but having some reputation for failure.

Are the construction of these filters being beefed up because they're premium, or because a heavy filtering media puts more strain on the filter itself?

You may have addressed this earlier, but I'm getting forgetful in my old age.

Thanks Tom.

armtdm · January 2002

Very pricvey and the nut on hte end INHO is more detrimental then beneficial. It was a real pain for me the one time I tried that brand as I use the wrench that fits over the entire end cap.

brorjace · January 2002

rbruehl, you're gonna have to do better than that in order to convince the people here in this thread. Quite a knowledeable and experienced group we have here and we're all aware of the K&N oil filter as well as the companies reputation.

I also found that welded, stamped-steel nut on the back to be a hinderance rather than a help. I think it was 25mm ... and I had a hard time getting the filter off with a 3/8" socket. An end cap wrench on a faceted canister gives you more grip.

--- Bror Jace

tboner1965 · January 2002

...but I can get most filters off with bare hands as well.

They go on hand tight. They come off the same way, just a bit harder.

And I use the K&N on my SVT Contour and Mazda MPV. (Same engine block, same filter!)

TB

armtdm · January 2002

This has been discussed on this board somewhere but I always use a wrench to trun at least one or two turns to assure the seal. I have seen too many fitlers leaking at the gasket due to quick lubes hand turning the filters. To me a few turns is bettter then going back in to tighten it later. To date I have not overtightened, ruined any filters.

As to K&N, the one time I did use it I saw no difference in my oil analysis results as compared to my standard use Amsoils, or Pure Ones I normally use. And, more expensive! I personally believe, although this has been debated on other boards, that their air filters do nothing to either improve HP. mileage or filtration. In fact, my oil analysis over years and several cars has shown that in this rare case the OEM air filters work better then any aftermarket. Not true of oil filters but for me it is in air filters. I have tried the K&N, and Amsoil foam filters and both do nothing and eventually fall apart from cleaning.

tboner1965 · January 2002

It has been flow tested to be at least 12-16gmp according to K&N.

The Motorcraft filter that came with both the Contour and the MPV is only tested to 3gpm. It may flow more, but is only tested to that level.

Since we've noticed a correlation between long right hand sweeping turns, high rpms (but not over redline) and oil starvation related failurs in the 2.5L Duratecs over at Contour.org, I believe it is better to ensure the oil filter flows as much oil as possible than it is to have very clean oil that can't get through a very effective, but restrictive filter media.

While I don't know if the oil filter is the choke point, I'm ensuring my filter will flow more than the oil pump will pump.

FWIW,

TB

wain · January 2002

My complaint about K and N is that they have not sent the filters to an outside independent testing lab.

Its all marketing hype.

probably same for other filter makers too

tboner1965 · January 2002

the flow rate is hype. The filtering claims certainly could be. But flow is flow. And given Ford/Motorcraft only claim 3gpm...

I'm not relying on a comparison to an unnamed brand in filter efficiency for my decision, but the raw numbers about strength and flow.

I have no reason to doubt those claims. Independantly tested or not.

TB

armtdm · January 2002

Buy a Ford and Buy the Best, Ride a Mile and Walk the Rest!

I have the Mercury version of your Contour, 4 cyl though. From what I have read the filter is not the problem with the oil starvation problem, more of an oil pan design flaw where the pump cannot suck up any oil due to the angle of turn!

tboner1965 · January 2002

The guys with the better baffled pans have faired no better. I think the SHOshop makes an aftermarket baffled pan, and there have been failures with cars so equipped.

It seems at say 5500+ RPMs (7000 Redline on the SVT) that there is less than 8oz of oil remaining in the pan.

The oil is staying in the top of the engine.

Roush ran one on an engine stand with an oil pan with a "window" and there was virtually no oil in the pan at high RPMs.

So even the best baffles can't help when the oil can't get back in the pan.

I run about 1/2 quart extra, 6.25 quarts total, figuring that once the engine starts, since so much oil is held in the heads (DOHCx2heads) that I probably won't have any problems with frothing the oil.

FWIW,

TB

tsjay · January 2002

I don't know why the Mobil 1's have such heavy construction. I know Champion Labs makes Nascar filters for Mobil 1, so maybe Mobil 1 wanted to market racing type filters for the public.

I was given a Nascar version of the Mobil 1 by a business contact of mine at Champion Labs, and, man, you ought to see that thing! It is MUCH bigger than even the old fashioned full size auto spin on filters before they started downsizing them. It is heavy too! This filter would have gone to Rusty Wallace's team, or could have at that time been used my Jeremy Mayfield's team. Mobil 1 was Mayfield's sponser at the time I was given the filter.

I don't think there is any need whatsoever for an auto filter to have that heavy shell and all that.

No, the paper should not put more stress on the filter and require the heavy construction. The by pass valve should relieve any excess pressure long before the filter should "blow up."

tom

58vw · January 2002

Mrdetailer, post 16 or thereabouts, commented in passing that adding a pre-luber might mean the engine "would never wear out."

Would Mr. Detailer or others comment further?
I just spent a fortune on a 2002 vw eurovan weekender which must last me forever, so I am interested in long-term maintenance

Thanks

58VW

alternator · January 2002

I wish all oil filters had the hex nut on top (per K&N), or a hex depression in the top serving the same purpose. Surely everyone has or can cheaply acquire a suitable socket to fit either.

Where filters are located in nearly unreachable places, the problem is not getting the filter off, rather it is in mounting the new filter!

Usually you cannot reach such a filter except with a "cap" type remover. If you use that remover to slightly tighten the filter beyond hand-tight (and few people have the hand strength to tighten a filter securely), then the darn remover is usually wedged tightly onto the filter and cannot be removed by hand (and there is no space to reach it with any tool that might be used to pry the remover off of the filter. I have often had to leave the remover attached to the engine until the next filter change!

Is there any better solution?

armtdm · January 2002

When that cap wrench cannot be taken off reverse your socket and give it a slight pull (as if taking the filter off) and the wrench will lossen up and it comes off easily. Leaving that cap wrench on could be dangerous on some models if it were to come off

alternator · January 2002

armtdm: I appreciate your reply and I have tried that. However, the remover sometimes seems to wedge itself slightly crooked on the filter and just will not come off.

I'm going to try putting a piece of wax paper between remover and filter to see if that will help (putting a little oil on the outside of the filter didn't help!). Will report later. I still think the hex nut on top is the elegant solution, but not at K&N price.

brorjace · January 2002

58vw good luck with that and let us know if you build and mount one. I have only heard of these for brand new motors (at time of initial assembly) and turbos to cool the bearings.

Like I said, I really disliked the K&N 'nut' ... after thinking how handy it was. You get better, more secure contact with an end cap filter.

I apply my filters by hand ... and then tighten them BY HAND as hard as I can. Less than 50% of the time can I remove them by hand. Only once has one loosened up on me between changes.

When I use an end-cap wrench and it remains on the filter after I remove it, I toss it against something hard ... like a pile of firewood and it pops off. Oil spillage is minimal.

You could also pop it off easily enough in a vise by grabbing the wrench and tapping the filter with a mallet or block of wood.

My brother once got a Fram filter for his Chevy V8 hot rod. It was a truck filter, I think. The base was the same spec, of course, but it had to be at least a foot long! >:^O

--- Bror Jace

adc100 · January 2002

Finally got around to putting a K&N filter on my Sentra. As I mentioned above, I did the research and found one that had over twice the filtering capacity. That plus the advertised high flow rate of the K&N ought to give me a great deal more flow and for sure a great deal more filtering. Wish I had an oil pressure gage to see the difference. Well-no matter-It has to be a good thing. Too bad you have to do these kind of things when the manufacturer sacrifices benefits in the name of one size fits all mentality. Now my engine is only a 2L, but the 3.5 high performance Maxima engine also takes the same midget filter-ridiculous.

altenator: If you are going to stay with the K&N Why not just go with a K-D band filter removal tool. Its my second best removal tool and must be used for the K&N. It has a 3/8 female drive to tighten and remove any filter that ever lived. If you need more information I probably can find it on the web somewhere. The tool # is 2380. Maybe they changed the # as I have mine now for 25 years. Its removed an awful lot of filters. (never failed on one yet)

Al

gregb882 · January 2002

I just changed the oil & filter on my 2002 Explorer and went from a Motor Craft #FL-820S to a PureOne PL-24651. I noticed that they look a lot alike! The inside hole pattern, the hole shape and the inside crimps look exactly the same. The only inside difference that I could see (I didn't cut it apart) was the color of the gasket and something deep inside that looks like a small valve (perhaps a relief valve?) in the PureOne that wasn't in the Motor Craft. Outside they look quite different, though. The PureOne has a knurled end where the Motor Craft has a hex end. Does anyone know whether the same company makes them? Thanks.

vidtech · January 2002

motorcraft filters are made by purolator.they are made per ford's specifications.

gregb882 · January 2002

Well, that explains it - even if they are to different specs. Thanks

tsjay · January 2002

I am pretty sure that Champion Labs makes the original equipment Motor Craft filters and Purolator makes the after market Motor Craft filters.

tom

gregb882 · January 2002

The filter I was comparing was an after market Motorcraft so it still seems reasonable that it looked a lot like the PureOne. Thanks.

bluedevils · January 2002

How do you tell them apart? Is the FL820S sitting on the shelf at Wal-Mart an "aftermarket" filter? What defines it as such (or not)?

tsjay · January 2002

The filters break down as listed above.

The "Engine Plant" filters, as the name of the category implies, go straight to the engine plants and are the filters that are on the new vehicle when you first buy it.

The second category of filters, OEM Replacement, are the ones at the service departments at dealerships.

The third category, after market, would be the Motorcrafts, for example, that can be bought at an auto parts store or a discount store.

tom

wayn1 · January 2002

Where the heck are you getting this information from? I've been working on cars for 30 plus years and this is the first i heard of this!!!!

zr2rando · January 2002

how it even matters where he buys them, Kmart/Walmart etc

tsjay · January 2002

Hi, Guy. I work for a paper company that supplies filter media to all the major filter manufacturers. I'm the technical director for the paper mill where I have worked for 27 years.

If you get a chance, you can read some of the older posts in here. Maybe some of the stuff will be interesting to you.

I am not an expert in filters, but I do know a lot about the filter media: I design a lot of it.
And... I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

c ya

tom

alternator · January 2002

If I knew how to reach the board host mr shiftright, I would ask him to please change the title of this discussion to "Oil Filters, Whose Is The Best, And Why?". The English language is tricky isn't it?

to brorjace: I have never tried K&N oil filters, I only admire their "nut on top" feature (I would not spend so much on a filter seeing how little agreement there is about any significant advantage of one filter over another).

At the moment my present concern is just finding the location of the oil filter on my new 2002 Mazda Protege's 2.0L engine (it has to be on the underside, but is it hiding behind a shield or what?) Advice would be welcome!

brorjace · January 2002

alternator,
If I feared that oil starvation was a problem in my car, I might appreciate the high-flow rate of the K&N. But since that does not appear to be the case, I'll use singificantly cheaper alternatives ... that will protect my car just as well, I'm sure.

As for the Mazda, have you checked between the motor and the firewall? A common place for tranverse-mounted imports. If you look VERY carefully, I'll be you can see a sliver of it from above. Although it would help if you knew what color the OEM filter is supposed to be.

--- Bror Jace

paul29 · January 2002

Oil filter is at backside of engine towards firewall, it is just under intake manifold . I change my own and has to be taken off from below, same 4cyl. engine as in a 626 The filter is very small , if you need a new filter wrench I would suggest a band type with a pivoting handle . Have fun.

adc100 · January 2002

This, in my opinion may be better than the band type for you on this aplication. It works well for me on Cavalier and Sentra which have the same stupidlocation.

Tool #63600

http://toolsource.com:

alternator · January 2002

Thanks brorjace, paul29 & adc100 for such rapid replies. Amazing! I have owned five Cavaliers in a row (still have a '96 Cavalier second car) and always changed filter from above (with difficulty of course), but I now understand why I can't see the filter from above on Pro. I looked at tool #63600 and will certainly order one if I have any problem at all during my first oil change. I only have 350 miles logged so far. Thanks again.

adc100 · January 2002

Order the tool anyway. You won't be sorry. It makes the Cav job a piece of cake. You can probably buy the tool locally if you look hard enough. But that is a tremendous price. That tool is really beefy. Its spring loaded, so you just slide it in the approximate area of the filter with the 3/8" drive ratchet on and slide it on. it then locks up when you turn it counterclockwise. It can't be used to tighten the filter though.

Better link:

http://toolsource.com:888/ost/lisle/

ocelot1 · January 2002

I found a sight that sold nippon filters I ordered some they were cheap 3.59 each they also had boch filters for 3.55 each I figured for 4.00 I'll cut one open and take a look. www.foreigncarparts.com (The site) Tony

ygriega · January 2002

To tsjay:
Your "breakdown" of Motorcraft (Purolator) oil filters was a perfect example of Internet nonsense and myth. You work in a paper plant. So??? Care to provide us with some actual documentation to support your claim?

tsjay · January 2002

No, actually, I don't. If you have read my previous posts, you will see that if I don't know something, I SAY I don't know. If I state something for a fact, I know what I'm talking about.

You can take it or leave it. Obviously, you are gonna leave it. Suit yourself.

I don't just "work in a paper mill." I deal directly with the filter makers' engineers to develop filter media.

Just ignore my posts, if you don't believe what I post. Others here have appreciated my insight on filter media and on what I do know about filters.

tom

zr2rando · January 2002

I second that motion by Tsjay, and Ygriega , you may want to go back and read through most of this thread, there are actually several posters that have given some very helpfull info about filters, it's always good to see some of the different points of view
see y'all
Rando

tsjay · January 2002

I don't know what I did to deserve that personal attack. I have said many times in here that I do not pretend to be a filter expert, but I DO know lots about filter media. If I didn't, my company would sure be paying me a lot of moeny for nothing.

A lot of things that I know are not for public consumption. I would not betray the trust of our customers by posting confidential information on the internet. That would be very unprofessional and unethical.

Thanks for your support, ZR.

tom

Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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