Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

armtdm · August 2001

I don't think that there is any difference in filters of the same brand where you substitue a larger size (longer housing) with more media in terms of flow etc. If the thread matches and the gasket matches I believe all filters of a specific brand are created equal inside as they are made for multiple applications, some vertical some horizontal etc. Purolator is simply CYA in their statement for fear of a larger filter perhaps hitting a belt or pulley or hose and causing damage so they cannot suggest using a filter other the the recommended OEM replacement for the car. I have used larger capacity Amsoil filters for years on several cars with no problems of any kind. I have done this on Maximas, Isuzus, Mitsubishi, Chev and Toyota. If there is room for the filter and the threads and gasket matches they work fine!!!!

adc100 · August 2001

I have done the same thing. No product manufacturer will ever give you the go ahead to use something that isn't specifically recommended by the another manufacturer. Product liability/lawyers etc. More flow and less pressure drop is a good thing-period.

gasguzz · August 2001

the mechanical (thread/gasket/clearance) fitment. Agreed. My question is how have you determined a NO-PROBLEM switching to a NON-SPECIFIED filter. By valvetrain noise (or by ear)? What about filtration performance through scientific analysis. "If there is room for the filter and the threads and gasket matches they work fine" - the clearance and liability factors are quite obvious, but how do you know it "works fine" TECHNICALLY?

adc100 · August 2001

I have done it. I noticed no abnormal operating characteristics. It stands to reason that a larger filter will have a lower pressure drop and therefore deliver more oil which is probably a good thing. I can think of no reason why bigger is not better. Don't forget different brands of filters will have different media as well as different amounts of surface area. Also the differential pressure will change as the filter media filters out dirt. The oil pump may pick up dirt on the intake screen and deliver lower amounts of oil. I had a screen 90% plugged due to the dealer gooping up a warped oil-pan instead of supplying a new one. The vehicle operated in an oil starved manner for at least a year. Through it all the bearings survived and after 140,000 miles the vehicle is still on the road. Bottom line-its not that critical. (IMHO)

armtdm · August 2001

My Amsoil rep recommended the larger size and I respect his opinon as I know that he attended many of their courses and I feel he knows their product line. He seems to have a reference chart with larger sized filters if the engine compartment has the room. Second, I do oil analysis at least once a year and I have seen no difference in the analysis with the larger filters. I have done this on at least four different engines with no apparent ill effects. As noted above, if you use different brands of filters I am sure that each has a different flow rate, media, pressure etc. and the oil pumps seem to compensate.

spokane · August 2001

I agree that a larger filter can only be better if size is the only difference. However, are there situations in which an alternate filter can have a different relief pressure setting for its by-pass valve? Complicating this issue further is the fact that some filters don't have by-pass valves because a by-pass is built into the engine. I once measured the relief pressure-differential to be ~11 PSI on an automotive oil filter but don't know if this was typical. Has anyone seen any published specs for the by-pass relief settings?

gasguzz · August 2001

Thanks for post 55. That clears it for me when switching filters WITHIN the same brand. Swapping to larger filters is common, but your investigation does more than say-so.

newcar31 · August 2001

What do you think of me using a Motorcraft filter instead of a Mazda filter on my 2001 Mazda Protoge ES 2.0L? I read somewhere in a oil filter study that Motorcraft filters are the same internally as the purolator pure 1 filters. Unfortunately, they don't make pure 1 filters for my application, but they do have a motorcraft filter that cross-references to my car. Any suggestions?

gasguzz · August 2001

Navigating through the Fleetguard website their FAQ stipulates a BPV setting based on OEM specs. In my case, my Honda's oil filter application is set to 7.8psi. Now, doesn't this indicate a possible difference in BPV settings by going to a different size filter? Question is, would the different setting be significant enough to affect filtering adversely? I would say probably not.

mrdetailer · August 2001

I'll be the Motocraft and Mazda filters are the same. Ford tries to keep components the same when possible. Motocraft have a good filter standard.

spokane · August 2001

Thanks, Gasguzz, the Fleetguard data does show some of the pressure-relief settings. In a few cases, I noticed that two filters were listed for one engine application. When listed this way, you would surely be OK with the larger filter. However, if choosing by capacity and thread/gasket fit only; don't you agree it would be possible to select, for example, a filter that has no BPV when your vehicle needs one?

armtdm · August 2001

there is a filter made that does not have a anti drian back valve or by pass valve. Een the cheapest do, may not work as well but all do contrary to waht dealers tell you.

What filters do not have one if you know of any. Since filters usually can service many different engines they need to be made with both valves.

kyleknicks · August 2001

what's the difference between the two?? i went to advance auto parts and they had both cut open and i couldn't really tell the difference between the two. take into account that i'm not a filter expert by any means.... so i'm looking for other people's opinions.

and does $6 sound like about right for a PureOne filter? thanks, Kyle

adc100 · August 2001

Check out this link- it has been posted many times. Look under "purolator". The differences seem to be the number of pleatrs and the fact that the Pure One has a synthetic filter media vs paper for the conventional unit.

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

john319 · August 2001

Correction, the pure one does not have a synthetic filter media. That site said it HAS it but in reality it does not.

adc100 · August 2001

Yea, I'm sure you are correct. I wondered about that too. Looks like paper to me.

brorjace · August 2001

Oh, and before I forget, the Castrol Max Pro filters are (I'm 99% certain) made by the Gard corporation who also make the WIX filters.

--- Bror Jace

spokane · August 2001

I believe most filters do have by-pass valves, however one exception is the very popular GM 3.8L V6. The correct filter for this engine has no by-pass valve because the engine has a built-in by-pass valve which connects the oil inlet and outlet passages. Examples of filters for this application include Fram PH3387 and PureOne PL10111. Accordingly, it would be dangerous to select this filter for use on an engine which had no built-in by-pass valve.

I agree that all automotive oil filters do seem to have anti-drainback valves. As indicated by several people, some designs are much more effective than others.

mdecamps · August 2001

Let's not forget these filters. No one has mentioned them yet, but they use synthetic media and have much better single-pass efficiencies than Mobil 1 or Pure 1 filters. Check out the AC Delco website. These are some impressive filters! 98% single-pass efficiency at 8-10 microns.

kyleknicks · August 2001

well, if the pure one filters doesn't have synethic media, i really dont know what the difference between the pure one and the regular purator premium filter. if the only diff is the number of pleats.... well, the regular one cost $2.69 vs $5.99 for the pure one. am i missing something??

mrdetailer · August 2001

Therefore allowing more filtering.

wtd44 · August 2001

I really can't justify spending the extra money for the pricey filter, when the regular one does everything the vehicle needs. Detergent oil successfully carries a lot of contaminants that are circulating in the engine. The bigger and therefore more harmful particles are captured by the filter, as you would desire. The tiny particles are unlikely to hurt the engine until the oil becomes "saturated" and can not suspend and circulate any more of them. You must change your oil and filter before that point is reached. If you fail at this, the bypass filter does its job. Go back to where I used the word "justify." Sometimes I just do things that I cannot justify. The other day I bought one of those AC Delco filters for my Pathfinder. It better be good! I paid $6.00 for it.

adc100 · August 2001

Paying a few dollars more per filter only amounts to 10-15 bucks a year. Hardly a lot of money compared to the cost of a vehicle and also to the amount of gas money on an annual basis. Besides GM did a study and found compared to a 40 micron filter wear was reduced by 50% with a 30 micron and 70% with a 15 micron filter. Thats a lot of wear savings for a relatively small price.

0patience · August 2001

I know you folks would like to beat this subject to death, but from my stand point, why?
I see hundreds of oil sample analysis a year and we have machines that are in the $100-200K range and see extensive oil analysis.
We run Fleetguard, Wix and NAPA gold filters. (Wix and NAPA are the same filter).
You will find no FRAM or Purolator on these machines as the manufacturer has recommended we not use them.
We aren't talking about only a few thousand dollars if these engines need to be replaced, It can get rather expensive, so everything is tracked to make sure there isn't a problem.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of the brands of filters, as most of them meet the minimum specifications of the manufacturers, but unless you are working your vehicle in extreme conditions, you ain't gaining that much.

scamp11 · August 2001

but how do you change oil filter without draining oil? Or do you drain and refill?

brorjace · August 2001

I don't have a problem using a $5-6 filter as opposed to a $2-3 one.

Why? Because I only go through (at most) 3 filters per car per year. So, if I save $2 per filter, that amounts to only a saving of $6 per year. That's insignificant when you look at the total cost of keeping a car on the road for a year.

Plus, if I'm gonna leave an oil filter on my car for 5-6 months, I want to be sure it's well constructed ... and doesn't use cardboard as a structural component.

--- Bror Jace

adc100 · August 2001

removing the filter doesn't drain the oil pan sump. Only a little will drain out from the top of the filter to the main oil gallery, but thats about it.

rcarboni · August 2001

Very good points. Filters with poor construction have been known to fail as the previously posted study has pointed out. Also, some filters have a higher potential to leak at the anti-drainback valve as was also stated. These issues seem to be important no matter when the oil and filter are changed. The issue of filtration may have more importance for the longer drain interval.

wtd44 · August 2001

I think it's a good idea to carry a list of the filters that are acceptable to you for each of your vehicles. This makes it easy to grab them up when you see sales going on. Wouldn't you agree that it is gratifying to put a bargain on your garage shelf, awaiting the next scheduled change? I do not doggedly stick to a brand-- I buy any of a selected group, and do so by price.

scamp11 · August 2001

I haven't heard any mention of them. They run about $5 at Autozone.

csandste · August 2001

The German (not the MoPar) oil filter study reports that Bosch filters for the most part are Champion Labs.

http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy-german.html#72150

If this is the case it's probably like any other Champion Labs filter (not great, but a lot better than Fram). i.e. Lee, Super Tech (Wal-Mart), Champ, STP, etc.

They also state that some German OEM filters may be mixed in.

csandste · August 2001

My long web citation keeps me from editing the above post. I was going to add that you should be able to pick up a variety of Champion Labs filters for $2-$3. I do notice that the above mentioned study gives Bosch more filtration area than the other Champion Labs filter (Deutsch), so maybe it is worth a bit more.

wtd44 · August 2001

Apparently the Champion Labs outfit is prolific. From what I have read, they make a very good filter. Autozone used to feature the Champion made Deutsch line. They are switching for no reason known to me, over to the same filters with STP painted on them. They are all good, I must assume. If you want a premium house filter when visiting Autozone, they offer the Bosch line.

csandste · August 2001

because Wal-Mart stopped carrying STP filters and started carrying their own house brand (Supertech). Maybe there was a warehouse full of STP branded filters sitting around some place.

Come to think of it, before Wal-Mart sold STP filters they sold Lee filters.

All of these filters are made by Champion Labs and all are about the same except for Bosch which seems to have more filtering material.

All are much better than a corresponding Fram filter, although I have to beg Wal-Mart to put their filter on rather than a (crap) Fram if they do an oil change.

adc100 · August 2001

looks like a good quality. I believe someone a while back said it was made by Champion???

BTW does anyone have any experience with using a larger than stock filter on Nissan products-The Quest V-6 and Sentra for sure use the mini-mini filter.

Thanks

armtdm · August 2001

On my previous two Maximas (that also had the thimble sized filter) I went with a much larger one and just barely had enough room to get it on and off but it worked fine.

adc100 · August 2001

application that it was used for???

wtd44 · August 2001

You might look at the Bosch filter for the Pathfinder. It is about twice the length of the Walmart cannister. Both have round section gaskets, as I recall. These both are recommended for Nissan V6 3.3 liter engines. Bosch filters are sold by Autozone.

adc100 · August 2001

I'll do that.

renonevada · August 2001

Carquest oil filters are made by WIX. They have two lines: the Blue (name brand) and the Red (OEM-type) filters. The Blue sells for about $5.50 and the Red one sells for about half that. Anybody know about these two?

Also, has anyone seen a cross section of the popular filters, i.e. WIX, Fram, Purolator, STP and GM? There has to be a display of the internals of these filters somewhere.

wtd44 · August 2001

You're behind the power curve!:^)
You should do some archive reading in this thread. What you want to know is likely in it. NAPA sells Wix filters as the Gold and Silver lines, probably like the Blue and Red lines you specified. NAPA counters often have cut away displays of several filters of several brands.

csandste · August 2001

Here's the famous MOPAR study. This is why I say ABF (anything but Fram).

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

armtdm · August 2001

on dislplay because anything out there beats a Fram. I have seen numerous displays or "Our filter and the leading competition"cut open and shown side by side Leading competition is always a Fram so that the filter being pushed by the parts store always looks great by comparison.

csandste · August 2001

I notice that Wal-Mart (Super-Tech) filters talk about 40% (or something) more filtering capacity than leading filter. The test is always run by Champion Labs which, if I remember right, has used the same verbage on all of their filters at one time or another. Saw a similar claim on the more expensive Fram filter, here they must have been comparing to their base line.

adc100 · August 2001

And their Single and multi-pass efficiencies are 98% and 94%. That compares to 98/96 for Mobil 1 and Pure One. I was wondering whar Amsoil Filters are???.

Check this out:

http://www.pureoil.com/faq.htm

AC's are 33% efficient on multipass whoooaaa. Not even as good as Fram.

Also noticed now that Pure one is now 99.7% efficient on single pass. Box says 98%

rcarboni · August 2001

... at what micron size is the 98% efficiency rated? You notice they say after that the efficiency at 10 microns is 86%. Still very good. I have been using Pure One for a few years now, and analysis has always come back good.

Funny though, that they song-and-dance their way around the extended drain question:

"Can I go longer intervals between oil changes with PureONE?"
It is recommended that you change your oil every 3,000 miles, or according to the owner's manual. The PureONE filter is designed to give you optimum protection over the life of your oil change.

adc100 · August 2001

My well thought post went away....grrrrrrrrr

Anyway yes 3000 mile cop out. They are up front with their ratings though. Probably because they fell they are the best. Probably a toss-up between them and Mobil 1. I use both.

Don't knot what the microns are for those tests. Maybe someone knows the particulars. It's in accordance with the specific SAE test specification (I know that helps you alot!!) If I don't get caught tonight with a gin and tonic- I'll check.

armtdm · August 2001

I use Pure One on one car, change the oil once a year and filter at 6 months but car only puts on 8-10,000/year. I use Amsoil filters for all other cars but for some reason the Amsoil filter on this one car leaks at the gasket, tried a few times with different filter but it leaks. So Pure One is it works great analysis fine.

Not sure of Amsoil filter ratings. they are made by Baldwin who owns Hastings. Actually Baldwin purchased Hastings several years ago but kept the name for the reputation and marketing of filters. Amsoil says that theirs are made by Hastings but after several discussions with Baldwin they admit to being the same company. Also, Baldwin makes multiple different brand name filters under different specifications (as does Champion etc) but they refuse to discuss which they feel are the best!

mrdetailer · August 2001

Didn't list Mobile One filter. Is it just as good? Possibly better? Deliberate oversight?

But with that comparison I clearly will not use the New Fram ex/2 filter. I was at least considering it.

adc100 · August 2001

Mobil 1 uses the fiberglass media either as a layer around the paper or by itself. I can't really tell.Fiberglass is a much better filter media.

Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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