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Comments
Even with that, though, it should average out after a few tankfuls.
I used to work for a company that made fuel systems for OEM and evap system problems accounted for a LOT of our repair parts (almost as much as fuel pumps).
I've seen what can happen and I would never top off. But do whatever you want.
Oh, and with respect to "illegal", anything that messes with emissions is generally illegal to some extent. If you mess up your evap system it can result in added emissions (since the evap system is no longer vented properly) or in extreme cases of topping off you get overflow of gasoline which is also an increase in emissions.
When I worked in the fuel tank business, the plastic tanks made by the company I worked for had ever increasing permeability standards that practically counted emissions of single hydrocarbon molecules through the tank walls, necessitating different plastics technology to prevent the emissions due to molecules seeping through the tank walls. It sounds minor, but multiply it by the millions of cars on the road, and even a slight improvement in emissions makes a big impact, which is why messing with anything that affects emissions is against the law.
Try BITOG and snoop out the oil filter section - there's a handy list there of filter manufacturers. As for Fram part numbers, Fram is so ubiquitous in the marketplace that many independent and store brand filters carry the Fram numbering convention for convenience. I have 30-odd "Castrol" oil filters for my '03 Hyundai Sonata that I bought on closeout for twenty-five cents per when K-Mart was in deep doo-doo. Though they carry a Fram number, they're actually made in Gastonia, North Carolina by Wix. (There's only one oil filter plant in Gastonia...)
Like Doohickie says...keep topping off if you want. One of the purposes of these forums is for us to try to help each other when we can, and I think that is all we are trying to do. To be honest, I had never heard that topping off posed any kind of a problem until we bought our Elantra in November of '01, and saw that in the owners manual.
Heaven only knows. Some dealers charge for 5W-20 and then squirt 10W-30 from their pressure dispenser hooked to a bulk oil drum into anything that drives in. (Though I personally still use 10W-30, ask me why I refuse to entrust oil changes to my dealer or a "gypie boob" shop...) Regarding 5W-20 vs. 5W-30, both behave when cold as a cold 5 weight oil would. When hot, though, 5W-20 behaves as a hot 20 weight oil would. Predictably, hot 5W-30 behaves as a hot 30 weight oil would - a bit more viscous than the former. Some believe the extra viscosity in 5W-30 oil also lends a bit more wear protection. I used to believe likewise, but now I'm not so sure. I now suspect 5W-20 motor oils carry additional extreme pressure additive to compensate for their reduced hot viscosity. One inspection picture on BITOG of a disassembled Ford V8 out of a state trooper's totaled 2001 Crown Vic patrol car at 237,000 miles revealed a still visible cross-hatch pattern in the cylinders from the final cylinder honing tool operation at the time the engine block was machined. This was a car run exclusively on 5W-20 Motorcraft synthetic blend motor oil and had extended periods of idling with commensurate fuel dilution. The main and connecting rod bearings were still within factory specs for new bearings. The piston ring lands were not carboned up and piston skirts showed more of a polished appearance than what could be considered scuffing. There was no sludge, and only a minimal "gold" discoloration from varnish. I don't recall whether the oil change intervals practiced at the department maintenance yard garage were noted, but 5W-20 seemed to be holding up to arguably severe service.
2694, 1racefan
Thanks to both of you for the info. I never noticed it in my manual, yes, I think it is there, I just must have missed it. I guess I am just a creature of habit. I will try my best to change to stopping with the "shut-off" from here on out. Do you think I will be OK at this point? 6000mi on my Hyundai. Would the same thing apply to my 2002 Merc Sable with 27000mi on it?? I appreciate the sharing of information for the betterment of us all. Let's face it another little bit of gas in the tank at the time isn't that important. Again, thanks..van
Seriously, you may or may not have gummed up your evap system already. Either way, you're better off doing the right thing from here on out. *If* it becomes a problem down the road, and it looks like it was a one-time thing, they are more likely to cover it under warranty. But if the evap system is totally full of gas, they're gonna give you a harder time.
On my own Elantra, I got really good mileage on my first tank.... in fact, far better than any of the mileage after that first fill (which was done by the dealer when I picked up the car), at least for quite a while. Eventually the CEL came on and it turned out to be evap-related. The dealer I took it to (not the same one I bought it from) asked me if I topped off, and I honestly said no, but I also showed them the gas mileage record and explained to them that *really* good mileage on the first tank might have been due to the purchasing dealer over-filling it. They cut me the benefit of the doubt and fixed it under warranty. I eventually had two other warranty repairs for other evap issues. But because I had a reasonable story, the dealer that fixed it was really good about it. Since then, the car has been pretty good. (Except for a dead battery, this series of problems have been the only problems I've had with the car.)
It would be best to do things right from here on out. If you have problems down the road, honestly tell the dealer "I never top off" (as long as you don't use past tense, you're being honest, right? )
It's never a bad time to do things right. Sometimes, not all the time, not doing it right will screw up the car. The sooner you stop bad habits, the better chance your car will have a long and happy life.
Here's what I found: the cross-hatch honing pattern from the factory was still plainly visible in all cylinder bores, there was no visible carbon build up on the rings, nor on the top of each piston, the oil pan was clean with absolutely no sludge build-up anywhere, and in viewing the bottom end, the crank and bearing caps were clean, and piston skirts were also clean with only a slight yellowing due to varnish. The oil pick up tube mesh filter was perfectly clean with no residue. The oil change interval is 3K or 3 months, and I've always used a Purolator PureONE filter, or a AC filter before the PureONE became available. I was impressed.
One other thing re. 5W-20 and 5W-30 . . . both use 5W base stock. The 5W-30 uses more VI's than the 5W-20 formulation. VI = Viscosity Indexer, and the more VI's an oil uses, the more potential for varnish and sludge build up over time. VI's are used to increase the viscosity from the base stock viscosity level, in this case 5 weight, to a higher viscosity level such as 20 or 30 weight. The higher the viscosity, the more VI's used in the base stock.
To phrase this another way, a local petroleum engineer here at the University of Illinois told me years ago to choose an oil with a minimal swing or range, i.e. which implies fewer VI's used. Actually, he's a great fan of 10W-30. He states that the move to 5W base stock is primarily driven by corporate CAFE requirements, and the need for improved fuel economy. I've used 10W-30 in an old 1985 SAAB 900 since purchase in April 1985, and it doesn't use any oil, and it's never suffered any mechanical engine failures. It's currently over the 200K mark and still going strong.
I worked for a company back in the late '60s and early '70s that used only straight 20W oil in their cars, typically Chrysler products with the 318 cu. in. OHV V8. None of those engines required any major maintenance, even at the 500K point. Normal wear and tear items, yes, but no rings, rod or crank bearings, etc. A straight single weight oil such as 20W uses no VI's whatsoever.
When you are driving, still remember to turn your head for a head check before you change lanes. You could still have a blind spot.
I'd guess 80% of drivers of both sexes do not know how to adjust their mirrors correctly.
Betsy just rolled 75,000 miles with no problems, so of course I continue to be very pleased. This is a 2001 GLS 5-speed, and we are enduring our second (relatively mild) Portland Maine winter.
And congrats!
condition has existed for last 10,000 miles-getting no better or worse.
Help..
Or perhaps on the input side- Throttle position sensor maybe?
Might have to do checks on several components before finding the answer.
I have no check engine light on
Lots of parts on newer cars are like that.
Sounds like you are in the 20% anyway.
And good luck to any of you who try to attain the perfect mirror settings in moving traffic.
Hyundai dealers
Kia dealers
Mitsu dealers
Chrysler (including Dodge) dealers (some old Chryslers are Mitsu-based)
The gear shifting seems much smoother now, but the car goes into 4th gear only around 45-50 MPH, and the RPM drops to around 2700 RPM in 4th gear from 3000 RPM. Is this RPM on high side for 4th gear?
Flush the auto transmission fluid - he has the SP-III fluid, since some of the Mitsubishis also use this (I flush the tranny every 30K)
New spark plugs and wires (I have never replaced the wires, but have replaced the plugs at 30K intervals).
Getting power steering fluid flushed (I have never done this).
Having radiator flushed, and getting the upper and lower hoses replaced (I had the radiator flushed at 50K, but hoses are original).
I was wondering if I should go ahead and replace the thermostat at this time as well?
I figure with the car having 90,000 miles on it, this should be all it will need (except oil changes) until I hit the 2nd timing belt replacement at 120,000miles.
Definitely. Since they're working around the hoses anyway, it's a minimal impact. And if that's the original thermostat, it's cheap insurance.
Now I got to figure out how to get rid of the sweet smell coming from the vents when the heater is on. I don't think its a heater core issue, since there are no leaks and no fogging up of the windows. Any thoughts on where I could/should look for a coolant leak?
Sorry, but I bet that's EXACTLY what it is- bad heater core. Depending on how acute your sense of smell is, the sweet smell can come a while before the green slime starts accumulating on the windows. And leaks start within the blower assembly; you won't see leaking outside that for a while.
With the new 2007 Elantra being more technolgically advanced that the 2006, with electric steering, Anti Lock Brakes,
Tire Press Monitoring, etc....will the new 2007 Elantra be
more costly to maintain over a 10 year period that the 2006
would be??