Honda CR-V Maintenance and Repair

stevedebi · July 2004

I don't think undercoating will help. It is possible that the tires are causing some of the noise, and switching them might help.

However, the CR-V has a VERY high cD, around .49, and you are going to get some wind noise no matter what. SUVs are high profile.

icvci · July 2004

what else do you need? the SAME service is performed on all cars. why should a CRV catch on fire and an Accord NOT catch on fire? why should a CRV catch fire and a Taurus NOT catch fire?

They don't? Unless you can prove to me that under the EXACT same circumstances an Accord or Taurus wouldn't catch on fire, I don't see how you have a legitimate argument.

justin · July 2004

are you kidding? i mean, really. PROOF is needed?

the Washington Post wrote an article on the Honda CRV. not an Accord or Taurus. sure, a Taurus can catch on fire after an oil change. an Accord too. but the CRV has the thoroughly documented problems, and Honda is the company with the epidemic on its hands. so it stands to reason that the CRV is the vehicle that has a design defect or a product quality issue, or both.

i think you know that since the CRV is catching on fire at a much higher rate than car XYZ, that the problem is with the car or its parts, not a person working on it. the media would just as easily pounce on another car if it was on fire as much as the CRV....

edunnett · July 2004

Seems your tinting questions got buried in the fire discussion. I just had my Subaru tinted and did some research beforehand so wanted to give you my experience.

First of all, to reiterate someone else's comments I think the factory tinting is always going to be better in terms of long term viability. After market applications of tint can be prone to peel, bubble and turn purple due to either a sloppy application, poor tint product, or the owner not caring for it properly. Don't believe that "dealer applied tinting" is the same as "factory". Many dealers will have aftermarket tint put on select cars and mark up the sale price accordingly. I'd rather pick my own tinting shop then pay the dealer to. That way YOU have the warranty and control the quality.

If you do go aftermarket, the average price seems to hover around $50 per window for a good quality job. I paid $225 (asked for a discount) to do 4 side windows and the rear view window.

Search around and get references for a reputable shop. I called my dealer and asked who they send their cars to, also read local car forums and asked friends. (the same company was named by all three sources so it was a no-brainer for me).

Research the tint brand names. You want a high quality product with a warranty attached to it - my shop used Madico tints - Madico good notes on the better business bureau.

Know about the window tinting laws in your state and know how much tint you want. There are some web sites that have charts but your shop should also be able to tell you. Most states allow a good amount of tint on the rear windows but none on the front. The tint amount is reflected in terms of percentage of light that can pass through. 5% is limo black, 20% is dark, 35% is medium, 50% is light. I got my back windows tinted to 20% and the tint looks the same shade as on my husband's factory tinted CR-V EX.

After getting the tint, don't ever use an ammonia-based cleaner (windex) on the inside of your tinted windows - it can break down the glue that keeps the tint on. Dont roll down thos windows or use the defrost on them for several days until the glue has thoroughly dried. Try not to scratch it loading cargo - that won't be covered on warranty. Save your warranty card!

Hope that helps.
Elissa

icvci · July 2004

I find equally entertaining (and dumbfounding) that, after what amounts to at the very least 300,000 oil changes 32 resulted in oil leaks, 22 of those leaks resulted in fire, 14 of which were thoroughly investigated and can be traced back to technician error, people still think it's a problem with the vehicle not the techs.

I'll give you that perhaps some element of these oil filters makes them more prone to failure. I won't give you that it was the CR-Vs fault those filters failed or the CR-Vs fault that the techs failed to check them.

justin · July 2004

"I won't give you that it was the CR-Vs fault those filters failed or the CR-Vs fault that the techs failed to check them."

If the problem is the filters, then you are right, it isn't the CRV's fault. It is Hondas fault. If the problem is that the technician failed to check them, then it isn't the CRV's fault. But it is still Hondas fault.

What you aren't understanding is that a technician is not going to ONLY forget to check a CRV filter. They will forget to inspect a filter on other cars as well. But only the CRV is igniting as a result of technician mistakes in disproportionate numbers compared to other makes.

It all goes back to Honda. They case isn't helped by their other recent problems with recalls. Their perceived quality is not so good anymore, and will continue to get worse until they step up and do/say the right thing. Lets all hope they step up so our resale values don't keep decreasing...

Isn't this boring yet?

chong · July 2004

Hi, Edunnett:

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.
The dealer recommends a local shop and from what I have heard,
they are doing a really good job. They are using llumar from http://www.llumar.com/.

Thanks again.
Chong

icvci · July 2004

Maybe their perceived quality isn't so good with you but, their actual quality and reliability have been quite good with me.

I never said Honda had no fault in this fiasco. Obviously if the fires result from a service done at their shop, they are stuck holding the ball. And, if they approved a part for their vehicle that fails they again are at fault.

What you aren't understanding is that a technician is not going to ONLY forget to check a CRV filter. They will forget to inspect a filter on other cars as well. But only the CRV is igniting as a result of technician mistakes in disproportionate numbers compared to other makes.

I understand all of that. Additionally I understand that short of holding each technicians hand, there isn't much more Honda can do. If you want 100% certainty that you car is never going to catch on fire, I suggest you drain the fuel and oil, then remove the battery.

theracoon · July 2004

The "I don't care" statement comes simply from the fact that I don't drive any other Hondas...

When this first came up (posting #1326) I said: "Why are CR-Vs - only CR-Vs, and only 2003 and 2004 model years, and only after the first oil change - more susceptible to catching on fire than 1) any other Honda model, 2) any other model year of the CR-V, and 3) any other oil change besides the first?"

To me, these statements appear contradictory. Either you are interested in whether there are other vehicles that catch fire after someone incorrectly installs an oil filter, or you aren't interested.

And I'm asking you to take a more critical approach and not assume that it's just the technicians.

And we're asking you not to automatically assume it's a design defect, and therefore Honda's fault.

The fact that the NHTSA closed the investigation shows that they, at least, aren't concerned that it's a defect in the vehicle that requires a safety recall. Honda has stated that they are still investigating to determine why it appears that only 2003-2004 CR-Vs sometimes catch fire after an oil leak caused by an incorrectly replaced filter.

kathgip · July 2004

Hi Stevedebi,
You said that the CR-V has a VERY high cD, around 49......what is that? I am not a car techie, so bear with my ignorance. Also, I have Bridgestone tires on my car......what are the best to cut down on road noise? Thanks for your input.

edunnett · July 2004

Oh good - I've heard Llumar is very good product also. Good luck!
Elissa

stevedebi · July 2004

Coefficient of drag. It is a number that represents how much drag an object creates as it passes through air. A solid wall would be a cD of 100. The lowest cars have around .26.

What a higher number means is that the CR-V is pushing the air in front of it, rather than sliding through the air. Thus you hear more wind noise, and use more fuel. And in fact, fuel efficiency decreases drastically over 55 MPH, due primarily to wind resistance.

Want to get over 30 MPG in your CR-V? Run it on the interstate at 55 MPH for a tank full of gas...

theracoon · July 2004

Want to get over 30 MPG in your CR-V? Run it on the interstate at 55 MPH for a tank full of gas...

I can attest to this! My best ever tank of gas was 31 MPG at 55-60 MPH with out running the air conditioning in my '99 EX 5 speed.

cybernut04 · July 2004

To me, these statements appear contradictory. Either you are interested in whether there are other vehicles that catch fire after someone incorrectly installs an oil filter, or you aren't interested.

Fine. I'm absolutely fascinated by other vehicles bursting into flame, and my only wish is that the media did a better job reporting these, especially when they happen on the same model, the two most recent years of that model, and (only?) after the first oil change. I love it when the stars line up just right and we can attribute a string of "coincidences" like this to a technician doing what they do on a variety of cars every day.

"And I'm asking you to take a more critical approach and not assume that it's just the technicians."

And we're asking you not to automatically assume it's a design defect, and therefore Honda's fault.

A week ago (posting #1338) I said: "I acknowledge that some of these fires may have been the result of carelessness on the part of Honda technicians, if the "Honda defenders" on the forum can concede the possibility that there might be something else going on here that has contributed to the problem." But I guess that fell on deaf ears (or, I should say, some deaf ears - one person acknowledged the possibility, and for that I'm grateful).

I have found that my reluctance to say it's just, merely, only, solely the technicians grows stronger day by day after reading the posts of a few people here who insist there is no possibility other than the technicians. I find myself trying to match their stubborness with my own, and that's silly. Of course, I'm doing it again here, aren't I?

The fact that the NHTSA closed the investigation shows that they, at least, aren't concerned that it's a defect in the vehicle that requires a safety recall. Honda has stated that they are still investigating to determine why it appears that only 2003-2004 CR-Vs sometimes catch fire after an oil leak caused by an incorrectly replaced filter.

And that was one of my questions that caused a few people to jump down my throat - I asked why it was only the '03-'04 CR-Vs. Honda says they're still investigating because they don't know why it's only those model years of the CR-V, and people don't have a problem accepting it. I say something about it only being those models and years, and have the nerve to say I thought it was a design problem and not solely the fault of the technicians, and it seemed to me that some people really dug their heels in and bowed all the more frevently to Honda. Do you see a contradiction here as well?

What I said a few days ago remains true today: "My only concern, my only concern, is that I can be reasonably confident that our CR-V will be no more likely that any other vehicle out there to catch fire after its first oil change. I don't think that it's outrageous to expect a new vehicle from a manufacturer noted for their quality to not catch fire after an oil change."

theracoon · July 2004

I said: The fact that the NHTSA closed the investigation shows that they, at least, aren't concerned that it's a defect in the vehicle that requires a safety recall. Honda has stated that they are still investigating to determine why it appears that only 2003-2004 CR-Vs sometimes catch fire after an oil leak caused by an incorrectly replaced filter.

You said: And that was one of my questions that caused a few people to jump down my throat - I asked why it was only the '03-'04 CR-Vs. Honda says they're still investigating because they don't know why it's only those model years of the CR-V, and people don't have a problem accepting it. I say something about it only being those models and years, and have the nerve to say I thought it was a design problem and not solely the fault of the technicians

The last sentence is the one I have a problem with. There were (apparently) no changes to the oil filter or exhaust system location between the 2002 and the 2003 models. There have been no reported fires for 2002 CR-Vs after an oil change. (so far, at least). Since the design is the same for all the 2002 through 2004 models how can it be a design problem? Honda doesn't know, so they're continuing the investigation.

Until we know for sure, stating that it must be a design problem is convicting Honda before the facts are known. That's what I have a problem with. You've judged Honda to be at fault without knowing the true cause of the problem. All you're doing is speculating. JM2C.

justin · July 2004

its like the movie "The Ring"...;)

all one has to do is break it down in the most basic and simple terms.

technician A (Jiffy Lube) works on Ford Mustang, Chevy Malibu and Honda CRV. Honda CRV catches fire.

technician B (Sears Auto) works on Toyota Camry, Nissan Sentra, and Honda CRV. Honda CRV catches fire.

technician C (Honda dealer) works on Honda Accord, Honda Civic, and Honda CRV. Honda CRV catches fire.

don't people get it yet? do people really think that all the techs out there are only going to make mistakes on CRV's? even if that were true (which it isn't), it is because the CRV was DESIGNED out of the industry standard, therefore making it a trickier job to do basic maintenance. it could very well be that the tech is stupid and can't read filter directions for the extra special CRV oil change, but HONDA SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT TO BEGIN WITH.

all cars get oil spilled on hot exhaust components. only the CRV catches on fire much more than the rest.

varmint · July 2004

Hi Cyber,

Yeah, I understand that you are concerned about your own situation. Your "I don't care" statements illustrate that fact. This makes plenty of sense.

My problem with your previous postings is that you seem to be saying that the lack of fires in other models can only mean that there is a defect with the CR-V. I don't see how the evidence supports that, especially when you have no idea if there has been a problem with other vehicles. Thus far, the only evidence we have points toward this being an issue with technician error. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

"And is there any information out there to contradict my claims?"

Well, that's the point now isn't it. I could claim that the fires were caused by the Tooth Fairy. Do you have any evidence to contradict that claim? A while back, Juice offered the theory that the fires were actually sabotage committed by Lee Iacocca. Do you have any evidence to contradict that claim?

You can claim anything you want. Feel free to sponsor a National Fire Speculation Day with a parade and everything. But if the claim doesn't have some basis in fact, I'm not going to take it seriously.

"And I'm asking you to take a more critical approach and not assume that it's just the technicians."

Yes, I believe that there could be more to this. I do not believe that we have all the answers, yet. But, thus far, the best/only information we have points to the Technicians. I am not going to fabricate theories to fill in the missing pieces.

varmint · July 2004

"all cars get oil spilled on hot exhaust components. only the CRV catches on fire much more than the rest." - Justin

That's not true at all. Oil spilling is among the most common reasons for automotive fires.

Sine you seem to know so much... Do me a favor and tell us all what the rate of fires to oil changes is for the CR-V. Then tell us what the rate of oil changes to fires is the for the rest of the industry.

varmint · July 2004

"Hi Stevedebi,
You said that the CR-V has a VERY high cD, around 49......what is that? I am not a car techie, so bear with my ignorance. Also, I have Bridgestone tires on my car......what are the best to cut down on road noise? Thanks for your input."

Actually, the cD for the new CR-V is about .34 per square inch. I'm not sure where the number .49 comes from. Even the 1st gen CR-V had a .41 or .44 cD.

Other than that, I agree with the above comments.

Here's something to keep in mind. If you ever find yourself comparing drag between two vehicles, you should know that the cD represents drag per square inch as an average. Thus a car with more square inches is going to suffer from more overall drag than a smaller vehicle with exactly the same cD.

As for tires, I'm told that the Michelin X Ones are reasonably quiet, but there are plenty of other tires with good reviews. Check online at Tire Rack or Budget Tire. Both offer reviews and customer testimonials.

kyfdx · July 2004

A lot of the noise in the CR-V is road noise. They have very little sound insulation underneath the passenger cabin. A quieter tire will certainly help, but it is always going to be a relatively noisy car on the highway. I just turn up the radio.. Just got back from a 1500 mile trip and survived.

regards,
kyfdx

justin · July 2004

have no way to come up with the info you request. confused as why it is needed. of course spilled oil causes fires on any kind of car. i agree 100%.

its just that the Honda CRV enjoys a much "better" repuation for having more than its "fair share" of them.

like i said, if a RAV4 was igniting more than the CRV, the CRV wouldn't be in the news, the RAV4 would be. therefore, a reasonable person would most likely understand that yes, indeed, the CRV does catch fire more than the average car.

i am not saying that Honda is evil. every company makes mistakes. it is a pattern for Honda of late though. oh how the mighty have fallen. (including my Accord resale value because of transmission recalls and crappy brakes and the "stigma" of engine fires on Honda vehicles). there was a time when a Honda Accord with 50k miles was worth more to some than a brand new Hyundai Sonata. i miss those days....

kathgip · July 2004

I just got my new CR-V 2 weeks ago, so I won't be needing an oil change for a while. However, when the time comes, do I have to go to a Honda dealership for the service work? Can I go to a Jiffy Lube or some other fast lube place? Now I am nervous. Thanks for the help.

icvci · July 2004

You're completely over the top.

the "stigma" of engine fires on Honda vehicles

22 fires creates a "stigma" of engine fires for all Honda vehicles???

22 fires in which 14 (more than HALF were thoroughly investigated by Honda and PROVEN to have been caused by technician error?

every company makes mistakes. it is a pattern for Honda of late though. oh how the mighty have fallen.

Last time I looked, they were still way above average in Consumer Reports reliability ratings and the JD Power dependability study.

Do you have evidence that any of the documented fires occurred after an oil change from anyone other than a Honda dealer?

justin · July 2004

what do you mean? i have no idea - i can only base my opinions on what i have read. i would HOPE that the majority of the fires were after oil changes somewhere OTHER than a Honda dealer. that would make Honda look even worse if Jiffy Lube does it right, but their own Honda trained techs can't.

to that end - where is this "PROOF" that 14 of the fires were caused by the technicians? i mean, this is HONDA claimng they have proof, right? you understand my point? would HONDA investigate and find themselves at fault? not a chance. they can't admit anything other than perfection.

if the NHTSA wasn't in the back pocket of certain car makers it would indeed be interesting to see what their findings were if they investigated the same vehicles that Honda claims they did....

on the flip side of all this, a new or used CRV will be a bargain to buy! and you can safely assume that the 05's will NOT be igniting. Honda can't afford anymore bad press or recalls.

theracoon · July 2004

You don't have to take your CR-V to a Honda dealer to have normal service work done. It will not void your warranty to have someone else do your oil change. Remember to keep any and all receipts so you can prove that you had the service done in case of a warranty issue.

Recalls and warranty work have to be done by a Honda dealer.

stevedebi · July 2004

Varmint-
Where did you get your number? I got mine off of a different car forum site, but have been unable to confirm or deny the number. Considering that the 2002+ CR-V appears (visually) to have worse Cd than the Gen1, I would have thought it would be more than that. Good news though...

icvci · July 2004

i can only base my opinions on what i have read.

And you read that there were fires after oil changes at Sears and Jiffy Lube where?

i mean, this is HONDA claimng they have proof, right? you understand my point?

It's all a big consipracy... oh brother.

if the NHTSA wasn't in the back pocket of certain car makers it would indeed be interesting to see what their findings were if they investigated the same vehicles that Honda claims they did....

So the NHTSA is protecting Honda???? Get real. Is it too much to ask that you start basing your opinions on something factual?

varmint · July 2004

[I] "have no way to come up with the info you request. confused as why it is needed."- Justin

You seem to be suggesting that the CR-V is more fire prone than other vehicles. But now you are telling us that you don't know the rates of fires for either the CR-V or other vehicles.

Lemme put that another way. You are claiming that A is greater than B without knowing the value of either variable.

The only evidence you've offered is what you see/hear in the news. I guess if it isn't in the news, it never happened.

And you want me to be suspicious of Honda!?!? LOL!

isellhondas · July 2004

CRVS have always ben a "bargain" to buy! Tremendous value andf great cars. You seem to imply that values are suffering now? Not so!

And you keep talking about "crappy brakes" on Accords? Seems like these problems are isolated to very few, especially you!

I know...I know...you never had brake problems on any of your other cars. Still, I would love to follow you sometime!

varmint · July 2004

The .34 number comes from some of the original reviews of the new model back in 2002. It was mentioned in several. I'll see if I can find active links.

justin · July 2004

icvci:

do you understand that the point are you making is actually making HONDA look worse? you are saying that were no documented fires when Jiffy Lube or Sears changed the oil. so, that means that ONLY Honda technicians are incompetent? how does that help a consumer to feel better about Honda in general? the Honda dealers send their techs to Honda training classes. see Hondas Owner Link website. it explains why "Honda Dealers Know Your Honda Best". according to you, they know better than anyone else how to get your car to be a bonfire in the winter....;)

varmint:

you don't understand a really basic piece of this. i can't explain it any clearer than this:

Honda CRV's (exhibit A) catch fire.
Generic Cars (exbihit

catch fire.

the news media is talking about Honda CRV's catching on fire MORE than the industry standard (whatever that standard may be). it wouldn't be "news" that Hondas are catching fire if EVERY OTHER CAR was catching fire just as much. come on now, you understand that, right? please say you do....beginning to wonder who i am typing at here

someone else here has to understand my point, right??? it is NEWS that the Honda catches fire because it catches fire MORE than car XYZ. otherwise, car XYZ would be on Fox 5 News, NOT the CRV. no actual "numbers" are needed as proof.

icvci · July 2004

This just in, WE DON'T HAVE ANY WORD ON WHERE THE OIL CHANGES WERE PERFORMED JUSTIN!

I'm not trying to make Honda look good. They do a great job of that themselves IMO. I'm trying to prevent posters who don't have all (or even any) of the facts from creating an atmospehere of fear and mistrust.

justin · July 2004

posters here can't create an atmosphere of fear and mistrust. Honda took care of creating that atmoshere already.

icvci · July 2004

Do you even own a CR-V? Or are you just here to fan the flames?

edgeta · July 2004

I get it ..."fan the flames"...
I pick up my new CRV today. Told the manager if it catches on fire, he has to rewax it.

icvci · July 2004

Enjoy it edge.

andrelaplume · July 2004

I was going to suggest that Edmund's pull all the email related to fires and create a new forum. I could have swore that was done with the sludge issue in the Toyota area...though now I can no longer find that topic....Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

kathgip · July 2004

I am new to this whole chat thing....but I find it interesting and enlightening. Seems to me that in the 35 years that I have been driving, there have been several other times that cars/trucks have had serious issues which did or did not warrant a recall by the manufacturer. A few years ago some truck or SUV had problems with a gas tank catching fire. My point is that these things get resolved and eventually everyone forgets about it. And we, the consumers, do not even remember which cars were in question. And resale is not affected. With a car as strong and reliable as Honda, it will be a 'non-issue' in a few months, and the company will be as strong as ever. And if a person keeps a car for 5-7 years, it really is a non-issue. We have short memories. Just some food for thought.

hkjcrv · July 2004

That would be nice... it's kind of tiring to keep reading the same arguments over and over again. People are never going to agree on this issue, why keep discussing it OVER AND OVER AND OVER?

deminin · July 2004

Honda will soon be installing a fix for its oil fires. They will be lining the passenger compartment with asbestos.

justin · July 2004

i have had several Hondas including my current Accord under recall for tranmissions that lock up and faulty brakes. i keep up on Honda issues - can't help it. plus, living in DC area, you can't go anywhere without hearing about the CRV fires.

kizhe · July 2004

Do you actually own CR-V?

justin · July 2004

"Do you actually own CR-V?" - Kizhe

No. I do not actually own CRV. haha. I haven't even driven one since I test drove that and my Accord in Sept of 03. What does that have to do with Honda fixing a safety issue?

kizhe · July 2004

So you choose to buy Honda Accord 03 but not CR-V 03 (test driven both), if I understood your post correctly?

justin · July 2004

exactly. i always liked the idea of a SUV that gets good mileage and has a nice cargo area. at the time, what stopped me from getting the CRV was the interior. didn't like the column shifter and the look and placement of the radio. but i liked the outside much better than the RAV4. but hated the Camry when compared to the Accord.

since i knew i wanted a Honda or Toyota (coming from VW), it ended up being the Accord. turns out, neither would have satisfied me.

isellhondas · July 2004

How some little thing can sway a shopper to buy or not buy a car. The location of the shifter and placement of the radio for example.

What bothers some shoppers is a plus for others.

kizhe · July 2004

isellhondas: <<.. What bothers some shoppers is a plus for others... >>
Exactly! I liked position of the shifter, radio,
and passage between front seats!

isellhondas · July 2004

" Oh, what a nice color"

Next customer....

" Oh yuck! what a crappy color"

Or...

" I don't like the way the tailights look"

It's amazing sometimes.

justin · July 2004

i hear my Accord is ugly from the rear a lot. obviously, i don't agree....

i think the CRV is very attractive from the outside. i think the interior felt "bus-like" to me, if that makes any sense. i really liked the RAV interior, but on the outside it might as well be a Pontiac.

i am done with picking strange colors too. i had a 98 Altima in "nutmeg" which most people called poo brown. at trade in time all i heard was "what IS that?" not good. i liked the brown color a lot though.

kizhe · July 2004

Whatever color you got - somebody will not like it.
Whatever you say, state or write - somebody will not like it (and maybe demand apology).
If you believe that your statement rules out misunderstanding - somebody will get it wrong. This phenomenon is very familiar to politicians, lawyers, lovers and married couples... . :-)

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