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SUV vs Minivans

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Comments

  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    Not to be too nit picky Aterixeira, but how often do you lose air out of all tires uniformly? I've never had it happen in my life. Normally it's just one tire going flat.

    Yeah I'm sure the new system is better, but the old system worked for 99% of the problems most people deal with.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I respectfully disagree.

    In fact CR had an article about putting Nitrogen in the tires. With regular air in the tires each test tire lost something like 5 psi per year, and with Nitrogen it went down to about 2-3 psi IIRC.

    But it definitely showed that all tires lost some air over time.

    We should all check the tire pressures manuall at least as often as we change oil. Many people don't, so the sensors are a good idea.

    I add air to my cars a couple of times per year. They do slowly lose pressure.
  • twin01twin01 Member Posts: 8
    I have spent the last week test driving different vehicles to determine which will fit our needs. (We have 4 kids, west-central IN, unplowed roads...) I drove both the AWD and FWD Sienna, GMC Acadia, Toyota Sequoia, Honda Odyssey and a 2007 Buick Terraza. I think I have narrowed it down to the Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sequoia. The Sequoia handled the best in the snow, but the Odyssey is more practical in all other ways. I will negotiate the best price on each and make a decision. I may keep the old Venture around as a back up, but after almost eighteen years of marriage, four kids, numerous moves around the country and driving this minivan for 10 years, my husband is breaking down and buying a new vehicle for me...
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Congrats. Before negotiating on the Odyssey, check the "prices paid" forum here, and at odyclub dot com. (there are some good incentives on them now)
    Good luck!
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    Did you like the FWD or AWD Sienna?
  • twin01twin01 Member Posts: 8
    I drove both the FWD and AWD Sienna on a snowy morning. The AWD was better in those conditions. My wheels spun with the FWD model (and I wasn't trying), but not with the AWD version. My main reason for not going with the Sienna was the run-flat tires and lack of a spare. Since I will most likely stick with a FWD van, I think the Odyssey was more comfortable to drive and more spacious for the kids in the back.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Ody is a good value, with strong incentives right now. Enough to pay for a 2nd set of rims with snow tires. Just a thought.

    The Sequoia is brand new and will probably sell for closer to list prices.

    The unplowed roads make this a tough decision, though. Good luck with whatever you choose.
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    Wel this is a suggestion, it's what we did. we own an AWD Sienna and we put on 4 redular tires and carry a spare in the rear well on long trips(200 + miles)and keep in the garage around town. You would love the Sienna more than the Odyssey, trust me. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The AWD Sienna does sit nearly an inch higher than the FWD ones, so you get more ground clearance to boot.

    Given the spare fits in the rear well, the only trade-off is that you can't fold down the 3rd row while it's there.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    I drove both the FWD and AWD Sienna on a snowy morning. The AWD was better in those conditions. My wheels spun with the FWD model (and I wasn't trying), but not with the AWD version. My main reason for not going with the Sienna was the run-flat tires and lack of a spare. Since I will most likely stick with a FWD van, I think the Odyssey was more comfortable to drive and more spacious for the kids in the back.

    Maybe I'm crazy but you might want to consider the easiness of driving/maneuverability of the two of them. I'm going to start looking for a mid-sized SUV soon which I know my kids will drive some of the time. IMO kids have a little more trouble driving minivans than SUV's. The wheel base length and size of the minivans is tougher for new drivers.
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    I'm :) 17 and enjoy driving a minivan, actually at my school their are several kids that drive their parents van.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, the Sienna is large, but remember the other models being considered are also large, in some cases longer and more cumbersome than the van:

    Sienna 201"
    Acadia 201.1"
    Sequoia 203.9"
    Odyssey 202.1"
    Terraza 205"

    The turning circle for the Sienna is much tighter than any big SUV's, in fact it's tighter than the turning circle for my old Forester (which is 2 feet shorter!).

    For manueverability, the Sienna is a good choice from that list of candidates.

    The Kia Rondo and Mazda5 are smaller, but may be too small, plus no AWD for either one. Maybe that new Dodge crossover? I forget the name.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    I have side damage thanks to the wheel base!! They just can't seem to get that wide turn down for a while. Up the curb is a common phenomenon when driving with someone under a learner's permit in a minivan.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, which van do you have again?

    A lot of factors affect the turning circle - wheel/tire size for instance. Also, AWD vs. FWD, or 2WD vs. 4WD.

    It's a good idea to try a U-turn during any test drive to see how manueverable a vehicle is.

    We test drove an Expedition once and while my wife did love it, she had to get help to park it. We ruled it out right then and there.

    Thankfully, while the Sienna is still fairly big and wide, the turning radius is very tight. Surprisingly so. You can easily fit a U-turn in an average sized street, even some smaller ones.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    A tighter turning radius would exasperate the problem. Even more passenger side door damage due to turning too narrowly. Up over even more curbs when making a right hand turn. Things change a lot when the kids get older.
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    As a 17 year old i can tell you it is much easier driving our Sienna compared to my aunts Lexus GX 470 or my cousins Mercedes SUV. I like to drive the GX but i can feel how top heavy it is in turns and prefer our Sienna.

    to me minivans are far more practical than an SUV.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    I think this is one of the better topics we've discovered -- do teenager drivers prefer SUV's or minivans. However, I don't think we are getting a fair sampling here. Of course from mother's point of view the safety is huge. Not sure which are safer SUV's or minivans though. None of my boys think about practicality though.

    In my family the consensus for the teens is :

    1. 1995 Taurus SHO -- they fight over who gets this one.
    2. 1995 Ford Explorer (no longer have - yes the one that could roll)
    3. 2000 Town & Country minivan
    4. 2002 BMW (5-something series) Shocked that my kids don't like to drive this. They claim that the the car doesn't "glide". When you take your foot off the accelerator the transmission applies drag and slows it down.

    :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I see what you mean.

    Teens should be trained to make wide turns. Especially when parking.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    Teens should be trained to make wide turns. Especially when parking.

    And until they learn, people should use all available resources - like 160,000 mi Chevy
    Ventures to effectively equal one of these:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_- - - - cars/top_ten_urban_vehicles_feature/the_beater_feature
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Beaters are awesome! Every family should have one.

    Makes no sense to give a 16 year old a brand new car. Let them get some experience on a beater instead.

    The problem is a lot of those beaters are used SUVs that the parents handed down. You just hope the kids drive those behemoths safely. I'd never let my future 16 year old drive something like a Suburban.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    When your kids get that old you will find you are on a double edged sword. You hate to give them something new because chances are high they will smash it and your insurance skyrockets with a new car. OTOH the older cars often don't have the safety features like side air bags that the new ones have. You hate to give them a big SUV like a Suburban because they are harder to handle and they can roll. OTOH there are so many SUV's on the road that if he does get hit and he is in a Civic - the other guy driving the SUV is going to inflict a disproportionate amount of damage to him and the small car. No easy answers here. Sometimes I think giving them the old minivan keeps them from showing off in their muscle car and going fast. May not get the chicks but they will be alive.

    BTW - I hate to make you jealous but I now have 2 beaters :P
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    It's a wonder any of us survived driving as kid..Gosh I remember driving a Dodge Coronet that had seats that only went half way up my back with seat belts I never wore. I believe the Dodge pick up truck and Plymoth Fury 3 had better seats, but not much else. They were all RWD and we drove in a lot of snow and ice with them. I totaled a pick up once with no seat belt or airbags and somehow made it out with out a scratch.

    No doubt you want your kids driving as safe a vehicle as possible, but the only vehicle that's truly going to do that is a tank.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am jealous! ;)
  • highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    agree with the need to consider the multiple needs or family requirements when considering a vehicle.

    1- space
    2- fun and drivability factor
    3- safety
    4- fuel efficiency
    5- practical usage

    OK>...I am in Hong Kong now...and this is one of the top stories.

    A Hong Kong family , a newly wedded couple ( Willian Ha, Clara Ng, her parents, and her 25 yr old younger sister Flora), all went on vacation toAuckland, New Zealand. They were driving a Subaru station wagon. Somehow , they lost were weaving, and hit a SUV Pajero ....... 4 of the 5 people in the station wagon died...with Clara surviving with severe injuries. The neighbors in the surrounding area came to help, but could not even determine the number of people inside the station wagon, due to the severity of the collision and damage to the vehicle. Rescue workers had to pry out the other bodies.

    IN the SUV, there were 3 people on a fishing trip. One 67 yr old had a shoulder injury, and the 12 year old girl had a broken arm. All 3 survived.

    You make your choices, and live with it. I think a minivan and suv are both safe choices....though SUVs may rolll over. IN collisions, the survivability of your loved ones will be generally higher when in a minivan or SUV.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, you don't exactly cross-shop an Impreza wagon (they did not specify the model) with a full-size Pajero SUV, which weighs about double, and probably costs double too.

    And I can't imagine that a Suzuki Samurai hitting a Cadillac DTS head-on would fare any better.

    This is a clear case of mass wins. Can't ignore the laws of phyics.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter from a large local newspaper is looking to speak to recent minivan buyers and minivan shoppers that ended up purchasing an SUV or crossover. If you’re interested in speaking to the reporter, please contact Jonathan Wahl at jwahl@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than July 3 2008.
  • amamtaniamamtani Member Posts: 2
    Hello all,

    I have just started my search for a 7 passenger SUV, and am trying to decide between the Acura MDX, BMW X5 and Audi Q7. I know they vary a bit in price, but I have only started looking and want to keep my options open. My key considerations for selecting an SUV are a) drive/handling and safety, b) at least somewhat comfortable third row seating, c) price. With that in mind, I have the following questions:

    1) Acura MDX seems to win in most categories that I care about - drive is pretty good (I am sure BMW is slightly better but MDX meets my needs); 3rd row seating seems slightly more roomy than X5 (although it is still pretty tight back there); and its the lowest priced. So what could "drive" me to purchase a X5?

    2) Is there anything good about the Audi Q7? The third seat is no more roomier than it is for MDX. Price is almost 40% higher than MDX. I am sure its good in driving and safety, but not that much metter than MDX, is it?

    3) Are there any other SUVs I should be considering? I have thought about the Lexus GX470 but haven't test driven it yet. Also, I have considered some of the larger SUVs (Sequoia, Escalade etc.) but am not keen on muying too big a SUV. Also, I would prefer to buy a Japenese or German SUV.

    Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    There's not much activity there (you could resuscitate the discussion!) but you may want to try the Large 7 passenger SUVs discussion.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the MDX is the best choice if you'll actually use that 3rd row, but also consider a loaded up Mazda CX9, which just got a new 3.7l V6.

    I would suggest an Enclave but you said Euro or Japanese.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    You might also consider the Mazda CX9 and the Mercedes GL class. If you are willing to at least look at something other than Japanese or German, throw in the Buick Enclave, Ford Flex, and Hyundai Veracruz. All of these should compare nicely to your original list.

    Following tidester's suggestion, you may also get some more feedback in the Crossover SUV comparison thread.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is looking to interview owners of a 2007 or 2008 minivan, SUV or crossover that is loaded with two or more high-tech features such as a navigation system, DVD player, heated mirrors, parking sensors, rear view cameras, iPod connectivity, radio data system, Bluetooth, satellite radio, tire pressure monitoring, universal garage door opener, Sync, etc. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com before Friday, October 10, 2008 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your vehicle.
  • smusichsmusich Member Posts: 3
    We're shopping for a new family car. Have a van now (mazda MPV FWD) and love a van. But we need better rough weather (snow) control. We're looking at the Sienna AWD van but now thinking about going the SUV direction.

    Does anyone have info on the difference between AWD and 4WD?

    Thanks
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We probably have too much info. :)

    4WD & AWD systems explained

    You'll find some details about the Sienna's AWD in the Toyota 4WD systems explained discussion.

    If you aren't using winter tires on the MPV, you may want to research that. I drove FWD cars in snow country for a couple of decades, including minivans, and did pretty well with studded tires. They aren't legal everywhere, but winter tires like Nokians may work for you.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The catch with the AWD Sienna is you have to get those dreaded run-flat tires. They cost $800 a set, are lousy, and don't even last. Google it and you will find tons of complaints.

    There is no room for a spare because the driveshaft takes up that space (FWD models have it underneath).

    I own a Sienna, and I'm a fan of AWD, but I passed.

    Get FWD and snow tires, or get something else.
  • bjudgebjudge Member Posts: 2
    Can someone please help me! I have a 2001 Dodge Caravan SE, 3.3L 6 cylinder engine -- with 133K miles, but drives like the day I bought it. The most reliable car I've ever owned. I can find no suggested replacment schedule for the "timing chain" (not "timing belt" like the 4 cylinder engines have). If I ask the dealer, they'll probably just tell me to replace it. But does it really need replacing? And when do I do it??

    Thanks so much
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Timing chains don't ordinarily require scheduled replacement and I don't see any replacement requirement in the Edmunds Maintenance Guide. They can wear, but your van wouldn't be driving like new if your chain or sprocket were worn. Enjoy the ride!
  • bjudgebjudge Member Posts: 2
    Thanks so much for your response!
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    My 1982 Ford Travel van E150 broke a timing chain (350V8) at 278,000 kms, in 1993 and screwed up the piston timing and the cost was too much to bare so dumped it in Ford dealer's lap and used what I gaught ($750) for a 1 year old 1992 Ford Taurus, long-stoke. I currently have a 214,000 kms 2002 Honda Odyssey and replaced the timing belt (V6) and water pump at 154,000 kms. The book ways to replace the belt at 168,000 and inspect the water pump; but since the pump is in the same area it is wise to replace at the same time (no use spending double the money if the pump goes lateer). By-the-way a FWD Minivan makes more sense to me for the great cargo space over any vehcile; exvept a gas-guzzling FULL-SIZE van.
    :shades:
    Ontario, Canada
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's still a pretty long interval. Let's see, 278k km is 164k miles. A lot of vehicles don't last that long.
  • jayhawk70jayhawk70 Member Posts: 56
    I know this is a late response, but just want to add that our 96 Grand Caravan has never had the timing belt changed or serviced, and we are at 236,000 miles.

    Biggest service expense we've had was a transmission that needed rebuilding at 140,000 miles. That cost $1500, and the transmission has now lasted almost another 100,000 miles since the rebuild and still working fine.

    All other problems were sometimes irritating, but relatively inexpensive and easy to fix. Two O2 sensors, 1 Manifold Air Pressure sensor, and a couple of window regulators. (did the window regulators and the MAP sensor myself).

    In 45 years of driving all kinds of vehicles, there is nothing like a minivan for all around usefulness. Hauls an amazing amount of stuff and/or people, and in great comfort. Great for long distance trips, or short runs around town. Hauled kids to all their activities as they grew up, then moved their stuff to college, apartments, etc. Hauls lumber, including 4x8 sheets of plywood for home improvement projects, and many other bulky materials.

    Cannot see any rational reason for a family getting an SUV unless you need to tow something big or if you live in snow country and cannot find a minivan with AWD. (of course, these days, they call a minivan with AWD a Crossover...)

    --jayhawk
  • mnrep2mnrep2 Member Posts: 200
    I have to second your sentiments about the "lowly" minivan! We don't have kids but have always owned one because I demonstrate equipment. Except for a full size suburban, there isn't an suv out there that can carry the cargo a mini van can, and still offer low 20's mpg, while offering a car like ride.

    I don't carry equipment around as often as I used to but we will still always have one minivan in the fleet. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    there is nothing like a minivan for all around usefulness

    So true...

    I just got back from a family reunion in Florida. The amount of people (up to 8 at any given time) and especially luggage that thing carried was incredible. And it handled the payload well, no bottoming out, and nothing had to go on the roof.

    Coming back from Florida to DC it carried 6 people and their luggage, and almost all of the luggage in the cargo area (up to the ceiling). Everyone was comfortable so no compromising. We had about a dozen suitcases, 2 of them oversized.

    The utility can't be beat.

    Oh, and they watched movies coming back. No asking "are we there yet?"

    We hauled coming back (dad hit 90 at one point) and had lots of weight, so mileage was just 24 mpg or so. I usually do 27-30 with a lighter load and at more prudent speeds.
  • mlezukemlezuke Member Posts: 1
    I am currently a mother of two, a one year old and a six year old. However, I will have a new addition to our family in several months. We will have two full size car seats and a booster seat. I will also have two strollers and a pack and play. Therefore, i have come to the dreadful conclusion that at the age of 28, i need a minivan. I am having a hard time deciding which one to choose. We put about 20,000 miles on my car every year. I like the idea of stow and go seating, would like a rear entertainment system, automatic doors, and a few bells and whistles. I have always driven foreign cars (my last two were a VW and a honda) but I am not opposed to domestic (my husband is a ford man). We would like to stay around 20,000 or less whith less than 30,000 miles. Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you want to carry all 3 kids in the 2nd row, your best bet is a Toyota Sienna.

    The Ody is the only other van to even offer 8 seats, and there's no way it will be wide enough for an infant seat, a child safety seat, and a booster, all 3 side-by-side.

    Better still, in the Sienna you can position the middle seat forward, so you can reach the baby from your seat. The older kids would sit outboard. Plus you would still have 99 cubic feet behind that row, i.e. tons of space.

    In any other van you'll need the use the 3rd row for that 6 year old, and he/she will feel cheated.

    Tip: get power doors, they're great (LE 8-passenger w/pkg 2 or higher).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    In any other van you'll need the use the 3rd row for that 6 year old, and he/she will feel cheated.


    In my family, my cousins in a similar boat here. The family now has a 2001 Navigator, with a 3 year old, 5 year old, and an 8 year old. Since he could put on his seatbelt, he's LOVED finally being on the third row, being the "big boy: all by himself. All he has to do is walk between the captains chairs, just like in a 7-passenger minivan, except in today's minivans, the rear seat accomodations are MUCH more comfortable than the back of an old Navigator.

    Just a thought; it may actually be preferable to have the two captains chairs in the 7-passenger Sienna or the 8-passenger Odyssey with the removeable center 2nd row seat. That way, he/she can get back to the 3rd row without having to move a carseat/booster seat to move the 2nd row chair out of the way for them to get back there

    Both the Odyssey and Sienna are nice vans which are aging relatively gracefully (the Odyssey debuted in '05, while the Sienna debuted in '04 and has gotten a new powertrain in the last two years). Putting that many miles on a van, you might also consider the Entourage or Sedona with their 100k warranty. If you're grimacing a lot about checking out a minivan, I'd suggest at least looking at the Chevrolet Traverse/GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook/Buick Enclave by General Motors. They are the roomiest crossovers, offer similar economy to the vans (while still not having the amount of room as a minivan), and lots of luxury options.

    Ateixeira won't lead you astray; he has an 8-passenger Sienna and loves it. I've put many miles on an '05 Odyssey and love that it handles like a 120% Accord; very carlike and feels smaller than it really is. The Sienna wins in the engine-department, while the Odyssey is simply the better drive of the two.

    Happy hunting!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is besides the Sienna the best 2nd row I've seen was in the Navigator's clone, a plain old Ford Expedition. It also has 3 individual seats for the 2nd row.

    When you don't need to put passengers in the 3rd row, you have SOOO much more cargo space.

    A friend of mine has 3 kids and traded a Suburban with a 2nd row bench for a Chevy Traverse with captain's chairs. She must always use the 3rd row for one kid, so her cargo space is less than half of what it was before. She's had trouble adjusting to packing so light for trips.

    The Ody is a lot bigger than a Traverse, so that may not be a problem, but check it out carefully, take the kids with you, ask them if they are comfortable, make sure you still have enough room for gear.

    We chose our Sienna democratically - both kids and even the nanny had a say in our purchase. Everyone voted Yes for the Sienna. Other vehicles got 3 or 4 votes, but nothing else was unanimously liked by all.

    I vetoed the Expedition because of horrible gas mileage and because it drives like a truck!
  • grumpyoldguygrumpyoldguy Member Posts: 5
    Looking at the soon-to-be-released Nissan NV2500. This looks like a $45,000 vehicle. I LOVE the size. I was thinking about buying Dodge Sprinter but it's reliability is questionable. Does anyone know is there are plans to make a basic plain-jane cargo version of the NV2500? Hopefully, I could get one for around $30,000. I want to be the NV of the neighborhood!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I missed the concept stuff last year, so this is new to me.

    Looks like it's possible that Nissan could start making them in Canton next year. NY Times

    They may wait as long as they can to see how the Ford Transit does.
  • grumpyoldguygrumpyoldguy Member Posts: 5
    NV2500 is not to be confused with the NV200 (which is Nissan's version of the Ford Transit) NV2500 is TWICE as big and at LEAST twice as pricey. The "Transit" type vehicle are okay I guess. There are MILLIONS of them in Europe already. Perfect delivery and maintenance vehicle for their narrow streets and alleys. May not catch on here though. More comfortable mini-vans can carry just as much junk when rear seats are removed. We'll see.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, there's a rumor that the NV200 could come to NA too. Just rumor though.

    The NV2500 looks like a Chevy Avalanche that ran into one of those old utility company crewcabs with all the doors hanging off everywhere and quadrupled the cubby holes.
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