Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

90gs · April 2005

Okay, here we go: I feel I've done some researching and I would like feedback. The following is a list of what I think I want. I'm posting it b/c I want feedback before I spend all this money (i.e. if I'm planning on spending too much or the part I'm planning on buying is crap).

Suspension.com
FRONT ENDLINKS
16-8104
$15.00

Suspension Techniques Anti-Sway Bar
(Rear, Part#51135) Bar Diameter: 3/4"
$183.18

15" OEM rims: either Si, GSR 5-spoke or what about the '04 Civic Ex: are those OK?
$200-300
on Falken- 205/50 - 15 duh! w/ good speed rating
$250-350

90gs · April 2005

oh yea plus the: Neuspeed front upper sway bar $100

& do I need a camber kit? I only dropped my ride an inch on the Tokico non-adj gas shocks & springs.

garados · April 2005

You probably won't need a camber kit as your drop isn't too aggressive, but I'd recommend it, just so you can get a proper alignment.

Well, I don't show up here for a few months and you guys make a grip of posts :P Oh well, doesn't matter. Looks like everybody's doing well. The miata is treating me nicely, but I haven't been able to go out and auto-x it because of lack of events locally. Hah, I sat in a turbo beetle, and when I got in, it reminded me of my old integra *sniff* and then I got into the miata and felt bad when I pressed the gas and that little 1.6 didn't do anything but make more noise :P

Alright y'all, take care and drive safely.

Phoy

only1harry · April 2005

My post was deleted because they 're saying I 'm not supposed to recommend friend's shops or whatever. Too bad. 2 pages of typing for nothing.. I did get a notice to edit it, but I didn't see until a couple of days later.

In any case $183 is too much for an ST rear sway bar. This vendor on line has it for about $40 less: http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com. Give him a call. I thought they made the 22mm rear sway for you car, but I could be wrong. 19mm is fine too.
Front endlink bushings are what you want so if you got the part# off the suspension.com site than it's the right one. OEM rims in good shape will cost you $300, not $200 but you might get lucky. Make sure the '04-05 Civic EX rims are at least 6" wide like the '99-00 Civic ones or all the other Integra ones. If you can't find the Falken Sport Azenis 205-50-15" (the 215 model), you should get the Kumho MX which are not as expensive as the new Falken Azenis 615. Get a wheel alignment after you install the tires. You want a little toe-out in the front (-0.04 each side) and 0 toe in the rear. There 's nothing you can do about the camber unless you get a camber kit. Most camber kits correct your camber and give you more positive camber. You don't want that. That hurts handling. You want as much negative camber as you can get. Being dropped 1" gives you a little extra negative camber. So you don't need a camber kit because your camber is not dramatic enough to hurt your tires. Besides, camber doesn't kill your tires, toe does.. unless you have 3+ deg. of neg. camber which you don't. A little negative camber is a good thing. If you look at the wheel alignment printout you will see the factor range for camber. It usually goes well into the negative range. My Integra's factory specs go up to -1.5 deg. When I was dropped 1" a few years ago, I had -1.5 and -1.6. When I dropped the car 2" it went to -2.3 on one side & -2.4 on the other. That's pretty much what I wanted (2.5" would 've been ideal but it was close enough). If you don't have at least 1 deg. of neg. camber you will be "rolling" your tires, meaning you 'll riding on the sidewalls during hard cornering which is not good.

90gs · April 2005

Okay, so I'm sold on the Neuspeed front sway bar/ST rear sway bar/OEM rims w/good tires and no camber kit. I've been talking about bushings and the two most common complaints are #1: They are squeeky #2: They are useless #3: They are hard to install (something like, compression, idunno). Also, do I just want the front end links? do I want poly eurethane? They have sets for ever piece of susp. getup I could even imagine!Please address these issues Harry, also I'd like to hear from anybody that has personal experience with BUSHINGS. Again, I appreciate the help, I've learned so much about supension this month [SNIFF] [SNIFF]!

turbodude84 · April 2005

I have been reading alot of your post. There has been some interesting read to say the leased. I just want to show you guys our shop car..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/Krazedadidas/dspics024.jpg
It has been turbo charged and a few Top Sercerts parts..
Later Derek

only1harry · April 2005

I never said anything about a Neuspeed front sway bar. I recommended a Neuspeed front upper STRUT bar, aka: shock tower bar, aka: front upper tie bar. It connects your front shock towers together to reduce some flexing and stress when cornering. A Neuspeed black front upper tie bar goes for about $100-110.
'94-01 GSRs came with this from the factory. I 'm not sure about '92-93 GSRs which is your generation Integra. You might want to look into installing an Acura '92-93 GSR upper (shock tower) tie bar if they made one.

Leave the front stock sway bar in. You just need to install polyurethane end links on your front sway bar. Go to suspension.com and order the Energy Suspension front sway bar endlinks. Do NOT get a whole new front sway bar. You don't need it. If you have bad bushings or your mechanic tells you that they 're pretty worn out (the car is pretty old and the rubber bushings tend to deteriorate over time), then install Acura OEM bushings. I wouldn't put the polyurethane in if you don't race the car. Polyurethane bushings also squeak after some time and need to be lubricated again. Just replace the lower control arm (front & rear) bushings with factory ones. You 'll be able to feel the difference. The car will feel tighter and have a new car like ride and feel to it. Handling will improve as well. Bushings is labor intensive and your car has a lot of bushings. The control arms have to be removed in order to press the old bushings out and the new ones in. I paid $600 for labor for the front lower control arm bushings, front lower & upper control arm bushings, and shock bushings all around. That's a total of 20 bushings. It litterally took them most of the day. I had it done at a local Porsche race shop 2 mi. down the road that does this stuff blind folded.. It was $70/hr labor (last summer) x 7.5hrs + tax. Not only did they have to take of the control arms and put them back, but they had to take off all the shocks too, plus my rear lower tie bar connecting the 2 control arms together had to removed, etc. Believe it or not I paid less to have my tranny taken apart to install a Limited Slip Differential! (at a Honda race shop 100 mi. away). Was the $600 worth it? Not at all. Did the poly bushings make a dramatic difference? NO. A slight one? yes. They 'd probably help more in road racing maybe, but for autocross which is racing at lower speeds or for the street, not worth it at all. The most noticeable thing is a crappy ride. My advice is do bushings only if you have to and install factory ones since your car is a daily driver, and you don't use it for any form of competition racing. Also don't expect to find too many people here with polyurethane bushings. It's rare to find someone like me on this forum. Those people frequent the hardcore Honda/Acura technical & race forums. They won't even talk to you there if you ask these basic questions and your post will be locked. Because your questions have been asked 30,000 times many years ago, you absolutely have to use the search feature to search through thousands of archived posts or you will be treated like dirt. I 'm still here because I started here in '99 before I went into racing and started modding my car, and I guess I 'm a creature of habit. I still visit other Honda/Acura 'fanatic' forums but I only participate or post in the racing section and let me tell you that's a tough crowd too, even for me

only1harry · April 2005

Hi Derek,
Unfortunately your shop car is not doing anything for me. Side skirts, front lip/spoiler, JDM or g2 headlights on a g3 teg, body work, and big wheels are just extra weight to me. If that's what you 're into then great. It's not me. I like sleepers. This car is a cop magnet. It sticks out too much but it's probably good to have a car like this to attract younger people to your shop. Here 's a pic of my car in action when it was lightly modded 3yrs ago and only dropped 1.3".

http://photos.yahoo.com/vtecharry

driftracer · April 2005

like on my son's cars (Talon TSi AWD and 240SX), if it doesn't make it go faster or autocross/drift better, it doesn't go on the car. No bling-bling, no goofy body kits, etc.

I've had that discussion with several of my sons friends - a couple have Integras, a few Civics, and RSX-S is in the group. Many of them are loaded with 300 lbs in stereo gear, radical body kits, cheap (HEAVY) 17-18" wheels from Ebay, and other useless garbage - they've added maybe 10-20 hp in mods, but are slower than an old lady driving a stock Civic LX auto 4-dr because these guys are driving around with a 500 lb weight penalty.

Do the math!! Power to weight means EVERYTHING.

only1harry · April 2005

It's funny you mention the stereo and such. Many kids show up to autocross for the first time and fail tech inspection for having 100+ pounds of loose subwoofers, speakers and amplifiers in the trunk of their 110hp cars (ok maybe 111 with a Magnaflow muffler and 4" exhaust tip or an axle-back only exhaust). They 're not fastened down securely. Sometimes the loose stereo equipment is in the back seat or rear floor. Do they really want to race and take high G turns with those things loosly tied down with some string and a wire? What are they thinking? They also have the 17" wheels that weigh 24lbs each and we sometimes find lateral movement in the ball joints because the extra weight of these wheels puts a strain on them as well as all the suspension components. In addition the big wheels alone make their cars slower. When I tell them they 've added 90lbs of unsprung weight on each corner they look at me like I have 3 heads. So we fail them and tell them to go home or see a mechanic.

But what 's really hillarious is that sometimes these cars (Civics, Sentras, Huyndais, etc.) with the spoilers, sideskirts, wings, 17" wheels and custom exhaust tips but with a $1200 stereo, are automatics!! They come to race without a manual transmission! Oh and the tires they put on their shiny new wheels are All Season cheap S rated ones with a nice soft sidewall..

I 'm glad when I was a teenager in the early 80's we didn't have too many 4cyl. cars around. I 'd probably be doing the same thing. My teenage muscle car was a '71 Nova 350 SS with a 4-sp. My mechanic just put some Crane cams in the motor and I installed new Cragar 15x8" chrome wheels on with 245-55-15 Dunlop Qualifier white raised letters and that's all you needed back then. Well my mechanic did replace the intake manifold and put a bigger Holley carburetor on it too. Our cars looked good back then, especially when they had the power to back it up. I had a stainless steel dual exhaust that had the most beautiful exhaust sound (melody in my ears) and almost 400 ponnies under the hood. That Nova was light. Barely 3100lbs it smoked everything at the light. I had a great power to weight ratio. I used to have Corvettes, Z28s, firebirds and other V8s for breakfast. Most Dodge 440s I was able to keep up with or beat them but I had to really work at it. They were fast but my 4-sp. with my Hurst shifter (hmm, I guess I did more mods that I thought..) was build for the 1/4 mi. The only car I lost to in the 2yrs I had the car was a GTO with a 454 that was worked and the guy estimated he had between 500-550hp! Ah those were the good old days.
Look at me now with an Integra. What was I thinking?? :confuse: Well it does outhandle my old Nova

driftracer · April 2005

is almost a verbatim account of our tech inspections every week....scary, and true.

Here's a REAL funny...my boys and I always get a kick out of some kid with a bonzai body kit (usually unpainted), stock or cheesy aftermarket wheels, stickers galore, and LOUD exhaust, in an automatic Cavlier, Neon (or even a Civic)...

We look, then listen as they accelerate, hearing the slushbox shift, and start laughing.

This morning, my wife and I were in my Ion Redline (modded) and were at a light when a young guy in a wanna-be street touring (as described above) version of an older Saturn sedan came flying by, cutting the corner - radically loud exhaust, and when the car shifted (almost said "he", but that would be wrong)...we heard the slushbox moan into the next gear....my wife said "we do these idiots do all that stuff to an automatic car?"

I looked longingly into her eyes, and told her that I could tell she'd been married to a hard-core car guy for 20 years (next month, on the 18th)...

kallieg · April 2005

I recently undid the spark plugs on my GSR and i then realizd im not sure which one goes where.. I dont dare start my car incase they are plugged in the wrong area. Is there a picture or something that will show me where each one goes. I need help with that ASAP!!! email the answer to me @ im_simply2cute@yahoo.com. Thank you.

turbodude84 · April 2005

The shop car was built to get noticed. It bring a lot looks at my booth when we are at a event. The car is just for show but my partner that is a few or 10+ years younger that me thinks other wise. The first week we turboed it the motor went lean and burnt the #3 piston. it was all do his lack of perfection.. Which is ok with me its not mine. I love sleepers as a matter fact I love a modified car in any sense of the word..
Later Derek

turbodude84 · April 2005

I tried your yahoo acct. but it bounced back. The firing order is 1,3,2,4
Later Derek

only1harry · April 2005

I 'm not sure you 're asking for the firing order but the order they go back in? You took them off the car to inspect them and want to know how they go back in?

All 4 plugs are the same and it doesn't matter which one you put where, unless you 're talking about the ignition (spark plug) wires? They are labeled 1,2,3,4 according to the cylinder they connect to.

only1harry · April 2005

That's nice that your wife speaks the same language and looks like is into motorsports and proper car modding. My wife wants nothing to do with it and thinks it's a waste of money and time to autocross race. And I know she is not alone. Most of my friends' wives think along the same lines. It's rare that you see a couple come out to race together or one of the spouses just hanging out and support the other..

How do you like the Ion Redline? It weighs about the same as a Prelude (VTEC base model), has 5 more HP, and 44 ft-lbs more torque so I must assume it's pretty quick like sub-7s 0-60? Have any major car mags road tested it yet?

I like that the Redline runs on regular gas and not premium. It hurts my wallet everytime I fill up the GSR at $2.43/gal for premium/super. Gas mileage is not bad on the Redline either. My wife's '01 Altima (155hp) which only weighs 60lbs more than a Redline had an advertized mileage of 22-28 and we rarely got over 25 on the highway. It also had 15" wheels (more economical) compared to the 17"s of the Readline. I bet if the Redline had 15 or 16" wheels with 205-45-16 or 205-50-15 tires it would get 30mpg or more. How do you like it so far?

driftracer · April 2005

and runs MUCH better on premium - you can use regular, but guys have done dyno tests and have shown 12-15 hp drops on regular - no thanks.

These guys showed HORRIBLE times in their testing....

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0405scc_redline/

Many Redline owners have done 0-60 in 5.5-6.0 and quartered at 13.5-13.8 on drag radials, 13.9-14.5 on street tires. The only thing I don't like, well two things - the Recaro seats are too narrow for my "no longer a 32" waist" body, and the car gets an unusual amount of attention - not something I'm used to.

I get around 26-27 on the highway, and I don't baby it or drive like someone's grandma.

only1harry · April 2005

The car is fast. I 'll have to see the time slips for the 13.9s on street tires though

That's Mustang GT territory. It 's really amazing that a 205hp car is this fast, especially for $21K. It does have lots of torque though for a 2900lb car. That's what makes it fast. I hope the 4cyl. motor will last for many years with this much supercharged power. I 'm hoping they 've made internal engine modifications to handle the power. Is this an all new motor from Saturn or did they take an existing one and added a supercharger?
The same goes for all sports/race seats. They 're usually advertise 34" waste. It's the only reason I haven't put one in my GSR yet and I 've been asked a thousand times how come I 've been racing without one for so many years. Well I have a 35" waste and have sat in hundreds of other people's Sparco, Corbeau, Shroth, Recaros, Racetech, Momo, and a dozen other brand name (and non) seats, and they all had a very tight fit. I always wonder how comfortable they 'd be driving to some of the more distant racing events 80-90mi. away. Actually a couple of very expensive ($800-900 each!) top of the line reclineable street/race seats were 36" waste and they weren't too bad. You do want a snug firm fit but nothing that stops your circulation or cause you discomfort. I don't how some of these guys with nice new M3's, 911's, STI's, S2000's, EVOs, etc. put these aluminum or fiber glass race seats in their cars with almost no padding at all! It's like sitting in a metal shell and my butt and back start hurting me instantly or 1 min. after making contact with the seat. That's just crazy. Last weekend I actually hurt myself turning around to tell the guy "nice tight fit" (which is true but I didn't tell him I hated the seat and the design). My elbow hit the edge of the seat which wraps around you and runs down along your ribs and your side. It was bare metal about 1/8-1/4" thick. But these are the hardcore race guys that come to win and go to the extreme in all the mods allowed in their class.
Ok back on topic. Anyone have any Integra questions? hehe

90gs · April 2005

"I fill up the GSR at $2.43/gal for premium/super."
Oh please Harry, I'll send you an e-tissue

I live in San Francisco and on a good day Premium is $2.97/gal. Regarding the guy w/ the racer chick: Marry the woman! If she's into cars, and you're SURE she's not really a man, that's a keeper.

Back to cars: Harry, how do you feel about the MUGEN rear trailing arm bushings, I guess it's similar to OEM but the rubber is a little stiffer. I'll stay away from poly but do I need to replace these arms? How can I check to see if they need replacing? Is that gonna be a waste of money? Also I read another forum (i know, unloyal) and they were saying that ENERGY SUSP. motor mounts (I think poly) were the best $36 ever spent. Is there any truth to this?

90gs · April 2005

He did marry her, okay, I can't read. Good job. Coming soon for Harry, motor questions! Once I order all the susp. equip. I'm gonna want to start building up the engine the right way. I'm riding the GS 1.8 w/ 147,xxx on the motor & chasis. I want to go either VTECH head or swap to GSR motor/tranny (readily available). Keep in mind I'm in CA wi/ strict smog cert. so I want to be as legal and reliable as possible. I also probably dcan't lose the car for months on end for a big build. I'm looking at spending maybe 1-5000 on the engine. I know you suggested I/H/E but is that compadible w/ all b-series? How do make this car really fast/reliable? BUT Susp. is more important right now, I just wanted to throw that out there.

only1harry · April 2005

Examine your trailing arm bushings with a strong light. If you see cracks replace them with OEM or Mugen. It's not easy to take those out. Some remove the whole trailing arm to get them out easier, but it's not necessary Many people have said that the Mugen TA (not T&A come down you all) bushings look & feel exactly like OEM. Noone knows for sure if they 're stiffer. A couple of people said that they suspect Mugen took the Honda/Acura bushings and sprayed them with stuff to make them stiffer. I forget the name of the chemical. They 're very expensive so I 'd think twice about them. Road racers buy the (not street racers, we 're talking about the track) Mugen ones more than anyone else but most hardly notice a difference over the OEM TA bushings. Don't forget road racers spend enormous amounts of money on their cars.

Polyurethane motor mount inserts, like Energy Suspension, are useful for a change, BUT they 'll make your car VIBRATE like anything, and some people have even gone back to OEM rubber. What the ES (or Prothane which are stiffer and I wouldn't recommend) motor mount insert help with is launches. You get less wheel hop and have better launches. They also help with torque steer and will aid the car stay straight or on course. At idle though or like when sitting at a light, your steering wheel, dashboard and the interior will be vibrating, screeching and rattling. When you put your hands on the steering wheel it will look like you have Parkinson's disease. There are pluses and minuses for every mod. I would not recommend them unless you have an aftermarket clutch (like I do) which really grabs and kills your stock motor mounts (like mine), unless you plan on drag racing at the light or do any form of formal competition racing. Just because others have them it doesn't mean it 's the right thing for you or your car. Some people get really annoyed with the vibrations. If you plan on adding over 20 HP to the car (at the wheels), then you 'll probably need them to eliminate the much unwanted torque steer.

Your motor will have to be rebuilt because of the high mileage and that's when you 'll have the chance of putting perforance parts in it. You 'll have to find a good Honda shop that has rebuilt or modded many Honda motors unless you plan on doing everything yourself. It can get expensive but I 'd rebuild the B18B ('94+ LS/GS) or the B18C (GSR) motor, not your B18A. These engines can be reliably modded with the right parts for an additional 40whp but it 'll run you more than $5K. If $5k is the most you can spend, then I 'd just do some head work or valvetrain work, like titanium valve springs, cams, cam gears, fuel controller, etc. and add a supercharger with 6 or 8psi of boost, or a small turbo with 5-8lbs of boost. The problem with that is, you 'll want to increase the boost and you 'll be spending a lot more money modding the motor (if you don't blow it).
Garados here knows about modding motors. He rebuilt his GSR motor. He owns a Miata now but he still visits once in a while I don't consider myself very knowledgeable in the subject of building motors and could only tell you what I 've read (which is a lot but..) which I don't like doing too much unless I have first hand experience.

Finally, if I were you and knowing what I know now, I would not put $5K into that car. I usually don't say this to too many people but it's a 15-16yr old car and unless you 're serious about racing it to make use of its full potential, I woudln't do it. You wont' get anything back for your investement when you 're ready to sell it. Furthermore once you start modding the motor, there's no stopping. You get addicted. You 're always going to want more power and you 'll end up spending a lot more on a "old" car. If you 're not happy with the acceleration and want a faster car, I 'd take the $5K and use it as a downpayment on a faster car, especially with the strict emissions laws CA has. You 'll have trouble passing inspection especially because in the least you 'll need a free flow CAT or a straight pipe to help get the most out of your engine mods, plus aftermarket ECU (computer) and other stuff. Here in NY they now made cold air intakes illegal because of the possibility of hydrolocking! The state thinks it's unsafe..

macrace · May 2005

I have a stock 95 GSR with 112K miles on it.Daily driver not raced or modded. Runs great but I'm starting to get a grind on every shift from 1st to 2nd. Other shifts are fine. I don't think the clutch is the problem,I'm assuming my syncronizer is going bad. What is the recommended course of action? Replace with a rebuilt trans or have the existing one rebuilt?Will changing the trans fluid help temporarily , I hear Redline is best? Worried about the domino effect, if I pull the tranny for rebuild or replace then I probably should replace stock flywheel with a light one and replace the clutch too? What's the estimated time frame until this problem gets to the point where I absolutely must do something?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2005

You can live with bad synchros forever if you are careful. Many race drivers are taught to drive without synchros at all.

I'd rebuild your unit, and completely replace the clutch, pressure plate, throwout, pilot bushing and real main seal, and resurface the flywheel as long as you have it off AND if it needs it.

Lighter flywheel is fun but you'll have to learn to shift a bit differently (you can't be as lazy).

No, redline won't help bad synchros I don't think but no harm done. Redline is a good product. It might give you smoother shifting when the tranny is cold.

only1harry · May 2005

I had the same problem around 32k mi. with '99 GSR. Grinding when going into 2nd gear. I wasn't surprised because I mishifted a couple of times while racing or I would often bang 2nd gear in hard and fast while the adrenalin is running after launching the car when racing. Sort of forcing them in and I 'd get some grinding once in a while if I shifted to fast (and at 8100RPM too).
I replaced the tranny fluid with Redline because I heard how "great" this fluid is.. The griding went away for a couple of weeks and then came back and it kept getting worse!

Spoke to a few other Integra owners I race with, and most of them said to go back to Honda OEM Manual transm. fluid (MTF). I did that and the grinding went away. Honda Fluids are very good and work well. According to Honda they 've done much R&D to develop these fluids to work with our cars. If Honda MTF is good enough for the NSX then it's good enough for my car. 15k mi. later and a lot of racing and hard launches & shifts, and so far so good. I plan on replacing it again this spring/summer. I do it once a year. It's relatively inexpensive and can save you from costly repairs. As your tranny and car get older you need to replace all the fluids more frequently. The same goes for me since I primarily race the car.

So go to the dealer and get your tranny fluid flushed or go buy 3 Qts of Honda MTF and do it yourself or have your mechanic or Jiffy Lube do it. When you just drain it, it takes 2.5qts. If the Acura dealer does a real flush which means they push Honda MTF through the tranny until all the old one comes out, then that might take them 5-7Qts but most dealers or shops don't do that because it gets costly and customers complain. So see if you can find someone to flush all the old broken down contaminated black fluid out of your tranny. Remember you need to bring many Qts of fluid with you for a complete flush, otherwise 3Qts is enough to refill (but only about 70% is drained from the drain plug with the car perfectly leved/horizontal) the tranny.
FYI:
When my tranny was off the car and taken apart to install an LSD, 99% of the fluid was naturally drained (my tranny was in about 300 pieces on a work bench), and it took about 3.3Qts to fill it up. I would also stay away from redline. Other Integra owners told me they 've had rough shifts or grinding was introduced when switching to Redline. Stick with OEM fluids especially since your car is not modified.

If your synchros are bad and they need to be rebuilt, I would install a new clutch but I wouldn't go with an aftermark one (like the ACT I have or others). If I had to do it all over again, I 'd install a Type-R clutch (and pressure plate) with a lighter flywheel like the ACT Prolite 8.9lb chromoly one, or the ACT Streetlite 12lb one. Stock flyhweel is 16.7lbs so you'll be able to tell the difference with even the 12lb one. The car will rev faster and be a little quicker since you are freeing up power previously lost before it got to the wheels. The Type-R clutch & pressure plate costs the same as a GSR one and it's a perfect fit. Since your tranny is going to be apart to get rebuilt (if the Honda MTF doesn't help), it would be the best time to install a Limited Slip Differential (throw out bearings will have to be replaced anytime you open up the tranny - there are 2 of them). You should be able to find used Type-R LSD's on the web from racers that have installed better (like clutch type LSDs) ones or aftermarket ones. I 've seen them being sold for as low as $200. I paid $850 for a new Quaife for comparison sake. Let us know how you make out.

himiler · May 2005

Hiya, Harry -- it's been a while!

How do you like your LSD? I remember you were going to go with the Quaife. Did you have to modify your approach to cornering (like I had to with my Lude)?

garados · May 2005

I guess I'm the resident engine builder =P Anywho, if you have any questions about what to do or what kind of parts to get and why things are done, let me know. BTW, if anybody's looking for a b18c1 with 15k miles on it, let me know because I still have mine =P

For the rough grinding, I'll go along with harry and recommend honda MTF. I don't think I've ever had a problem with shifting when I had honda mtf in there. Hmm, wonder if mazda transmissions and honda mtf will survive together...

only1harry · May 2005

Hi Himiler and Phoy.

Himiler,
Do you still put 100K mi./yr on your cars? hehe
Yes, you do change the way you approach (we call it corner entry in the motorsports world) corners with an LSD to maximize your speed or minimize time. You also have to ease off the accelerator (get your food accustomed to) in some instances because the tires grip more and don't require as much gas or if I floor it, the outside tire seems to have too much torque and will spin. That's something I 'm still getting used to even though I 've had the LSD since July '03! Technically when racing your don't want the tires to spin at all (maybe ever so slightly is ok) exiting a corner because you lose precious hundredths or tenths of a second. My car never spun any tires before with the open differential when I exited tight corners at slow speeds. Now it does because the LSD distributes the torque better between the two wheels. Without the LSD the torque goes to the inside tire which doesn't have good contact with the pavement and leaves your outside tire which is more important and has good contact, torqueless.
What do you drive these days?

Garados,
You 're da'man!
I take it you have some Honda MTF and are thinking of using it on your Miata? It probably wouldn't hurt as long as it is for a short time. I wouldn't run too long on it. Did you do a custom alignment on it yet to get it ready for the auto-x season? Adjust the camber as far as it will go (negative)!

What did you have the timing set at on your GSR after your rebuilt it? I have mine at 20 deg. now and the engine sounds rougher. More friction I guess. I did get 2 more HP at the wheels, but I don't think it's worth it especially since I only got 0.8 ft-lbs of torque more with it. It's more torque I want, not HP. I 'll drop it back down to 18deg.
I also think I 'm going to readjust the valves and increase the clearance a little. I have them all at .03mm (or is it .003mm can't remember) now which is the lowest allowed in the range and it feels like I 've lost power. Most of them were at .05 before and the car was faster. I can't believe a small difference like that would make a difference so it could be my imagination but I don't think so..

Oh I autoxed a Miata 2 weeks ago! It was at my local club's test & tune non-points event. The winner of each class at the end of the day takes 1 or 2 runs (time permited only 1 run that day) in the same car to see who is the fastest and that person takes a big trophy home for a year and then hands it over to the next winner and so on. The car was a '96 Miata (1.8L) completely stock with some crappy all season tires. By the time I got to drive it 10 others had driven it and the brake calipers were smoking! The brakes were fading really bad because we were doing the runs back to back and it was pretty fast course where I almost redlined 2nd a couple of times so the brakes took a beating and didn't have time to cool off because someone else would jump in the car and go. The clutch wasn't in great shape either because everyone was burning rubber at the start. I wasn't used to racing a RWD car but I forgot how well they handle. The turn in on the car was really good and the tail would come out in the slalom or everytime I turned the wheel. Half way through the course I started getting used to it and learned to keep my foot on the accelerator more to straighten it out (I do the same with my GSR). The slightest ease off the accelerator when the car was not in a straight line and it would come around (of course I was going very fast and making very quick transitions). I was sideways a couple of times but quickly floored it and saved it. The Miata would actually recover quiet well and fast! It was a fun car to drive even if it were 2.5-3 secs slower than my car (I was on street tires too that day). I came in 3d overall and there about 15 drivers competing. One of them was Pat Salerno who is a 2-time National Champ and had also had many 2nd place finishes at the National Championships in Topeka. He got a 41.1 with 3 cones compared to my 42.4 secs with no cones (which means I beat him if you add the 6 sec. penalties he incurred)!! And he is used to racing all kinds of RWD cars. That's all he races. Vettes, Porsches, Z28's and has raced many Miatas before. It was my first time auto-xing a RWD car in 3-4yrs! The last one was an older '86 MR2 which I liked as well but the Miata was better. So Pat's 41.1 with 3 cones is actually at least a 42.0 without cones so I was less than half a sec. behind a National champ

Another National level driver (he 's come in 4th and 5th many times at Topeka and has won Northeast Divisionals and even the Pro tour I think) took 1st place with a clean 42.1 He was another RWD car racer. 2nd place was 42.2 from a Northeast Divisional champ, so I did very well considering the expertise I went up against.
So I think my next dedicated auto-x car might be a Miata! A little underpowered for my taste but with good tires, good wheel alignment and a bigger front sway bar (front sway bars are legal in stock classes for RWD cars) I know that car could have easily been another 2 secs faster on that course. With some Konis or Bilsteins 3+ secs faster. Count your blessings that you have a RWD car to race with now Phoy! Leave FWD behind and don't look back. It sucks. Stay in C Stock so you don't have to spend tons of money $$ to mod the car for CSP or STS2 (SM2, etc). The car can be made very fast in CS. Just do the shocks (don't go cheap on the shocks, get Konis!!), front sway bar and a good alignment and you 'll kick butt. And don't get disappointed. The more you do it the faster you 'll get. I 'm jelous. I want a Miata too (but I 'll settle for a Type-R so I can race D Stock, hehe)!!

90gs · May 2005

First: MUGEN TA's are $130/pair, Tell me how much OEM would be and where I can find them online for cheap. I'm gonna be propping up the car soon for the wheels and I'll check them then, they run perpendicular to the axle right?

Would I notice a diff. w/ OEM rubber motor mounts? cuz I don't want my own personal vibrating seats (as you so intricately described). But I guess that's somnething to be saved for motor swap time.

Alright so I have been coming to terms with the fact that this car may never really be as fast as I want it to be. but I am still greatly inclined to mod this car because even stock I like the way it rides. Gas is cheap (relatively) maitenance is low and the insurance I pay for with spare change I steal from homeless people. Given my situation, the tight CA smog restrictions, 300-400 a month budget for the car and a strong inclination to keep this car (although I am still open to getting a diff. street car to mod b/c I'm finding out now I should have put Koni's on instead of Tokico's b/c they are supposedly 10x better, I dunno. Maybe you can suggest something, but here's the thing. I really want it to be sleeper. Sleeper all the way. With someone pulling up to you at almost every othjer red light. I don't mind losing to an SC400 if I'm in a 15yr old integ. Plus it's that much more gratifying when you smoke a GTI in 1990 GS, HA! We've actually half considered getting another car b/c my girlfriend's becoming more independant now. Are Honda Hybrids modifyable?

I'm still convinced I can spend less than half the cost of a new car, say 10,000 (ok so now I'm stretching my engine budget to 8-9g's) and make an older car way faster than a new one. Open any suggestions from anyone (even though I'll probably just listen to Harry!), GSR motor, GS/VTEC - I know I'm gonna have to swap the motor out sooner or later b/c the person before me got a head gasket job done after it overheated so the thing burns oil like crazy. But you say B18b or c, huh. Remember reliability is important too. And as far as an investment, I'm not plannin on getting a single dime back. Cars are the best money pit ever invented, they do nothing but lose value the minute you buy them and they continue to suck on your wallet like a teething baby. For me it's a quality of life issue. I enjoy driving and the convenience rather than something else a few thousand would buy me. :shades:

90gs · May 2005

Hey Garados, where are you located, I might need a swap soon? Also, in ref to the thread about the shifting, ever since I bought this car it doesn't want to go into 3rd from 4th. I just got in a habit of almost shifting into 2nd and then popping it into 3rd. My girlfriend says she'll ease it into 3rd and that works too, eeee- wont... ...make... ...joke... ....trying, okay moving along, I thought maybe it had to do w/ the gear box, but than I read about this guys 99 gsr. Should I be worried? what would fix it? Do i need to fix it?

garados · May 2005

Well, I'm in Albuquerque, NM. As far as what's going on with your transmission, I'm not too sure. Honda trannies are notorious for dumping 3rd gear synchros (thankfully I dodged the bullet on that one *knock on wood*), so that's what may be happening to yours. What you can try, when you shift, is to be in 2nd, put it in neutral, pop the clutch, then shift it into 3rd, and see if it grinds then. What that does is spool the transmission and have the gears going at the right speeds to mesh nicely. It's the same process the synchro does, it just takes a split second where this method takes a little longer.

Harry: I've already got koni's on there now, a roll bar, I'll be putting some azenis on spare wheels, and I'll be getting 5pt harnesses and a front sway bar in the near future, and I'll be off for my first auto-x this season on the 22nd of may! I'm excited ^_^

As for the advanced timing, I kept mine at about 16* and messed around with vtec engagements and fueling. I always had my car running rich, just because I'm paranoid. Anyways, I'd recommend staying at 16-18* just because beyond that, like you noticed, there really isn't much of an advantage, and also I believe 93 octane is needed ~20*.

so, here's a link to a picture of my miata. It's really big, so 56k beware ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/garados/profile.jpg

and the integra *sniff* in it's racing gear :P
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid110/p7550ddf11199eda8047fa76a168611e3/f917a1c3.jp- g
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid110/p5fc1317a0a0fc41ce7af27d3a913c23e/f917a1c1.jp- g

only1harry · May 2005

That's right I remember now. Your Miata had Konis on it when you bought it. Are those OEM wheels 14"? I don't remember what year your Miata is, but these wheels look like the '90-92 OEM wheels that were very light, 10.9lbs! That's good for auto-x. Put the largest tire you can put on there. Try and do the front sway bar before your 1st auto-x. You won't regret it. You might even want to look at later model front sway bars, like the Miata R's, etc. I 'm sure you 're frequenting Miata forums so see what front sway bar other autoxers are using. So this is a 1.6L? That would mean you 're racing in E Stock. Man, beware of those '90-93 MR2's in ES. They 're fast and handle good too. They also start at 130hp.. Good luck. Another mod you can do in ES is free flow CAT and exhaust (not much else). I heard that's very important for the 1.6L Miatas. They give you noticeable power increase. Another thing is I see in stock class Miatas is the small 4pt. roll cages. Their owners tell me that it stiffens up the chassis and helps in auto-x. Make sure at the next auto-x event you ask the Miata guys a lot of questions, but make your own conclusions. Look at their cars carefully. Look under their cars, ask them what mods and what aftermarket parts they 're using (especially if they 're in your class and kicking your butt). You should also inspect your bushings since you have an older car. Installing fresh OEM bushings can make a huge difference. I just installed front LCA Honda OEM bushings on my '01 Civic EX, and it made a noticeable difference in handling and ride! They had small hair cracks in them and I had noticed deterioration in handling. It was well worth the $190 the dealer charged to have the bushings replaced. I was there for brakes and other stuff so I let them do it, normally I don't have any work done at the dealer but they had a great sale on brakes and brake fluid flush. Of course I provided my own Brembo rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads. The HP+ pads I had on the Civic lasted 90k mi.!! But they were a little too much for a daily car. That's another thing you should do while getting ready for racing. Fresh pads or rotors and pads. The Hawk HP+ are awesome! I use them on the GSR too. More aggressive than the Ultimates but squeal at times and are a little noisy, not too mention they dust like crazy, but well worth the $$. Keep us updated on the mods and progress, ok? This is the Speedshop forum so we can talk about any car's mods.

90gs · May 2005

okay, Garados, but it only has the problem going from 4th to 3rd, but you're saying manually shift it into neutral and THAN put the clutch in? or wait, you mean put the clutch in, shift into neutral, punch the clutch once more, and then put the clutch in to shift into 3rd?
Just out of curiosity how much do you think it would be to fix it? If I go GSR (motor & tranny) it'll be fixed right?

I might be in NM this summer on business, I'll post if it would be at all reasonable to check you out down there.

Also: On this 15yr old car would it be reasonable to have the dealer do all or some of the BUSHINGS? What would be a reasonable price to pay to improve the handling. I know "reasonable" and "dealer" don't normally go in the same sentence but responses are appreciated.

garados · May 2005

yeah, clutch in, neutral, clutch out then in, shift into 3rd. This goes both ways, from 2-3, that's all you do. from 4-3, when in neutral, blip the throttle so the rpm's are in the general vicinity of what they'll be when you're in 3rd at the speed you're going. If you do the entire swap, then you'll have to check to see if the tranny is in good shape, and if it is, you're problem will be fixed.

Harry: I already have the 4pt roll bar in there now and i'm planning on getting the eibach front sway bar. a local miata place is selling it for 150 and i'll install it myself. it's the same on the spec miatas use, so i think it'll be a good investment. oh, about bushings, i jacked up my car to install the roll bar and there was about 1/2" of play in the rear swaybar-to-subframe mounting bracket bushing thing. perhaps some new bushings for the rear would be good. for the front, all of the bushings look to be in good shape, i checked the lca bushings and they looked to be in excellent shape. it's just the rear that's in bad shape.

I'll see if i can get some pics of car currently. I just need to mount up my 15" azenis on the front and I'll be ready to go!

only1harry · May 2005

I called the dealer out of curiosity a couple of years ago to check on the pricing for new bushings (installed) and they said $1100-1200 for all suspension bushings. You might as well install NEW front and rear upper & lower control arms for less (they all come with bushings). Parts for my GSR on 2 front control arms and 2 front upper arms is around $630. The 4 rears are much cheaper, around $360. The front upper control arms don't have bushings but your balljoints & boots might be in bad shape. These are discounted prices from www.acuraautomotiveparts.org. Then all that's left is the upper shock bushings. The point is, it's not worth going to the dealer, especially Acura. A Honda dealer or a local Honda race shop would be cheaper, but you will pay a lot for the OEM bushings. They 're not cheap like ES.

I paid the Honda dealer almost $200 to have lower control arms (LCA) bushings installed (on my Civic) and then I realized for the same price I could 've bought new arms that come with new bushings. The labor would have been probably half to install 2 new LCAs because they don't have to take out the old bushings and press new ones in. The dealer overcharges anyway and usually doubles the actual amount of time spent, or goes by the "book" hours.

90gs · May 2005

Okay so if I got this pair of MUGEN Trailing Arms (TA) for $130 and had a shop replace 'em they would just have to do the whole arm right, no pressing out of BUSHINGS, right? I imagine labor being maybe $200, is that correct?

PS Garados, I tried that and it didn't work at all, Is my car gonna implode!?!!?

only1harry · May 2005

The trailing arm bushings are just that, bushings, not trailing arms. They are imbedded in the trailing arms. They 'll have to take out the old ones and press in new ones. Why do you want to do these? Are they bad? cracked? Yeah labor will be more than $200 because they 're a pain to get the bushings out. Some shops take the trailing arms off the car to do it because it's harder to replace them with the TAs on the car. I would only do them if it's absolutely necessary. It's a good amount of work to remove them and re-install them and it usually takes 2 people when putting them back on. Also on an old car like yours, bolts will definitely cease or break while removing (the head of the bolt usually breaks off and/or the threads are busted). Dealers don't have most of these fasteners in stock (especially local mechanics) and your car may sit in the garage for a few days unless you have a well stocked hardware store (with metric bolts) or fastener shop close by with the exact diameter, length and thread pattern. Your LCA and other suspension bolts will not come off easy and will need to be destroyed for sure.

I had my rear LCA bolts brake the 2nd time I replaced my suspension (and mine is only a '99). The first time in early '00 they came off fine. Car was only 1yr old. The 2nd time in '02 after 60 race events, it was a totally different story. They wouldn't come loose and they had to break them and drill them out. I started freaking out because I was 60 mi. away from home at a race shop in NY City and it was Sat. late afternoon. Luckily for me the race shop I went to, built Honda/Acura (real) race cars, fabricated chasses, installed roll cages, and did lots of suspensions, etc. They had an abundance of all the metric hardened steel bolts found throughout our cars (grade 8 & 10) in different sizes. I never thought 6-7 buckets of hardened steel fasteners would be such a pretty site. They didn't even charge me. Acura LCA bolts are usually $8-12 ea.!

Anyway here 's a pic of your rear lower, upper, and TA arms. The TAs are the "big ones". Can't miss them

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp

Are you sure Mugen makes them for your car? I thought they only made the '94+ ones which I think will also fit '92+ Civics. They actually don't make any parts for our cars. They only make some parts for the Type-R ('97-01) which happen to fit some of our cars. It's possible the '90+ TAs are the same as gen3 Integras. If that's the case, then Acura dealers do sell OEM TA bushings but the part #s are usually not advertised. I 'll try and get the Acura part # for you. They 're less than $40 ($100 less than Mugen) and according to some they only started making them 3-4 yrs ago because people were complaining they had to pay $500 for new arms when the bushings broke.
Honestly, I would not worry about those right now, unless you can verify that they 're in bad shape. If you were competing with this car, and you had taken care of everything else (larger rear sway bar, front sway bar end links, a good tune-up, etc.), I 'd say go for it, but that's not the case.

only1harry · May 2005

Not sure why the link didn't work. I copied and pasted the URL that was showing in the address bar. Must be linked with something else.
Anyway, you can put in your car model, year, etc. and then select "rear lower arm" in the component section.

90gs · May 2005

The link works fine- and thank you btw for that resource. I was actually underneath the car yesterday (looking at these things we talked about) and that "lower control arm" not sure why some call it a trailing arm and others not, and it looked fine. The MUGEN TA i was looking at was from redshift and you might be right they dont make one for this year.

Why I was so concerned with it, i dunno, other ppl, which i realized didn't know what they were talking about said I should change it. What I'm more interested in his having a tighter feeling car (not to the point where every bump on the road my head hits the ceiling) but to the point where the car feels, not so old and loose, that's why I wanted to go after the bushings before I did the bars.

Lets put it this way Harry, now that you know my pref. so well: if you had $800 to blow on the suspension right now, where would that money go to?

garados · May 2005

i don't know about harry, but I'd blow it on a couple of things. 1st would be a swaybar upgrade, like suspension techniques. If you do front and back, that'd be about 300-350. That' leaves you with 450 or so, and I'd put that towards adjustable shocks such as tokiko illuminas (had them on my old teg) or koni yellows (have them on the miata). I highly recommend both of them, i'll leave it up to you on which one you choose.

Oh MAN!!!! I put on a 24mm adjustable front sway bar (Eibach) on the miata, and it freakin rocks! Turnin is so much better, the car is much steadier on flat and bumpy corners, and the car doesn't feel as if the back end is going to whip around. It really is enjoyable and much more confidence-inspiring. To tell you the truth, i bet it's right there with my old integra in terms of handling. I think that when I put the 15" azenis on there, it will definitely be comparable to the integra.

90gs · May 2005

Okay -thank you - what about the Red Konis (non-adjustable) b/c I just dont see myself bringing this car to the track or ever finding a need to adjust them but then again what do i know about susp. cuz im asking you guys all the q's - i mean when would i need to adjust? also - if answerable - how much better are the non-adj KONI's vs. non-adj TOKICO's ? Yellow KONI's vs. white Tokico's? I meanm isn't a gas shock a gas shock? how can it be that much better? EXPLAIN!

The TA's look fine - I guess bars it is - and depending on response to above, maybe i'll upgrade my Tokico blues - otherwise I'll just save the money like Harry says and save up for my '97 Viper + the gas for it. Thanks guys

garados · May 2005

shocks have different strengths that may be better for what you want to do. I found that the tokiko whites (illuminas) didn't like a 2inch drop AT ALL. once i raised the ride height, they were great in damping the ride. It was really nice. I can't really comment on how the yellows take to drops.

the illuminas can handle about 350-400 lb/in springs while the yellows can handle up to 500 lb/in springs, if I recall correctly. So, you see, if you were to get some stiff suspension, the yellows would be a good choice. If you're just going to be a daily driver with a mild drop, then the reds or blues would be a good choice as they're basically stock replacements, but they can handle a little bit of a drop and a little stiffer spring rate.

01tegguy · May 2005

Hello to the recent posters (it seems like 90gs, harry, and garados are the only ones left)

I just found this site and your postings last night and its gotten me excited about my car once more. (In truth I'm always excited about my car, but reading your posts have rejuvenated my excitement, it's almost a weekly thing, even though I haven't done anything to my car). I have '01 gsr with 23k miles on it (i put 12000 of those on it myself recently, since i bought it last september) and I've been reading around on all aspects of the teg since before I got it, including the general physics involved with general parts, though suspension has been something lacking in my "vocabulary". I decided to post here because of the patience there seems to be on this site as compared to some others (where, as harry said, they can be rather brutal). I'm usually a reader and not a poster, but maybe I can add a few more angles to the questions? Maybe I'm just blindly hoping that I can add something to what's left of this thread.

I have recently started becoming interested in autoxing since a few weeks ago when I was reading about it on another forum similar to this one. I'm not so sure I can spend the time, or rather, the money on autoxing yet, but I might plan on watching a few sometime soon.

I plan on posting here in the very near future (maybe tonight?) with some possibly thought provoking questions. And just out of curiosity, are any of you located in washington state by chance? I don't see too many nice tegs around here. Lots of tegs no doubt, but most of them look like they're in terrible shape and driven by people that don't know how to drive a car. (I can't say much for myself as I haven't taken my car to the limits quite much as I know some of you have, but I'm above average)

Suspension talk is great. Seems like this thread is running nicely, and I look forward to conversing with all of you (or maybe just the three of you =p) very soon.

Devin

stever · May 2005

Welcome 01tegguy - there's probably a bunch of folks lurking and learning as well. But it's always more fun when more join in, so post away.

Steve, Host

garados · May 2005

nice of you to sign up and start posting with us. If you have any questions, let us know. I guess I'd be the engine expert and Harry would be the suspension guru, although, I'm not too shabby in that department either :P *rubs fingernails against shirt* So yeah, hope you enjoy posting here. Hopefully your questions will be answered in a timely fashion.

Take care,
Phoy

only1harry · May 2005

Welcome 01tegguy!
Sorry I 'm on the east coast.

I have one advice for you already even though you haven't asked anything. Don't just watch auto-x, participate! Watching and asking questions if good too but the sooner you do it the better. Don't have to spend any money at all. Just go pay the $20-30 to register and have fun. You 'll be slow at first, and yes, you 'll think your car's handling stinks, and that your tires s*ck (they probably do), but just do it. It's a lot of fun. For me it's a hobby but I also try to come in 1st every tiem so I autocross every other weekend because there I have 6-7 clubs within an hour's drive (NY/NJ/CT area). I go through race tires (at $600/set) like I go through Cheese Doodles. It can get expensive if you let it and if you are very competitive, but it doesn't have to be.
BTW, the advice we give to 90gs for his '90 Integra also applies to your generation Integra so take notes

only1harry · May 2005

2 things more than others make the car feel "old & loose" as you describe it. Shocks and bushings.
Front and rear (rear is more important in FWD cars) sway bars will make the car feel less older & loose but not completely. It 'll make the car feel tighter in the turns and take flater, faster turns and sweepers, etc. So definitely start with sway bars like I 've told you several times. If you go with a better front sway bar, then there 's no need to purchase ES poly end link bushings because that's for your stock front sway bar.

Bushings naturally wear out over time and with mileage and give that "old car" feel. Basically take the "tightness" away. New shocks can also restore some of the tightness for a while until they settle and sag and the valving starts deteriorating and the oil breaks down.
So the sway bars first, and then I 'd recommend just replacing the front & rear lower control arms or just the bushings for the lower control arms. New arms come with new bushings already pressed in, but either way they will give you that tight feel. Replacing the entire lower control arms will cost you very close in labor as if you replaced the bushings alone, so why not get whole new arms? Then you 'll need a good wheel alignment. When you 're ready for that I 'll tell you what alignment settings to get.

only1harry · May 2005

Finally broke down and bought the Skunk2 upper control arms and the rear Ingalls camber kit (rear upper control arms). $265 total with shipping (from lightningmotorsports.com). Went to my favorite shop, got them installed today and dialed up the camber to -2.8 deg. front (each side) and -1.8 deg. rear. This is negative camber and not recommended for daily driving. This increased my (negative) camber by at least 1/2 degree at each corner. The difference is noticeable. Not a lot but the Falken Azenis Sports, my street tires, felt better planted on some 90 deg. turns and in one of the highway ramps where I had the chance to gun it. The real test will be at tomorrow's auto-x race.

The rear Ingalls arms came with Polyurethane bushings (you have your choice, rubber or poly). The Skunk2 front upper arms came with the ball joint and boot and it's the new design (we 'll see how they hold up under racing conditions) so the install was pretty straight forward since you don't have to take off the old ball joints from the factory arms or anything. Well not much else to do now on the car that's allowed in my class, except for intake manifold, throttle body and ECU (computer) which I don't plan on doing, mainly because the ECU is required to get power out of the other 2, and spending $2,500 on an ECU plus several hundred $$ on the dyno (for tuning) for an extra 10-15hp is not worth it to me. I also toe'd in the rear tires a little for better/faster turn in and I can tell the difference that made too. I may sacrifice some speed in the slaloms with toe-in, but faster cornering should make up for that. We 'll see. Now if I can only leave the car alone...

garados · May 2005

you're so secretive

Just tell him that for daily driving, to get everything set to 0 and if he wants to auto-x, get about 1.5* negative camber up front and 1* in back, 0 out the toe (okay, maybe a little bit of toe in) and caster, and call it a day :P

But I'll have to agree with harry. sway bars will make the car feel completely different. I can say that it's truly the case, especially with my 93 miata with the new front sway bar. The old one had 160k miles on it and probably had the stock bushings too. The car feels as tight as my integra did, so I'm really happy about that

Take care guys

only1harry · May 2005

I told you a bigger front sway bar in your RWD Miata will make a world of difference. Takes a lot of that sudden oversteer and tendency to loop around away, and makes the car more neutral and faster.

It's still unfair though that the SCCA rules allow a front sway bar upgrade in RWD cars, (in the stock classes) but not a rear sway bar upgrade in FWD ones. Oh well it's getting late and I dont' want to start bitching

Yes, -1.5deg. front and -1 rear is fine if you want to come in 3d or 4th. I go for 1st. You know me.. -2.8/-1.8 baby!! hehe BTW, you 're right. Tokiko Illuminas and Koni Yellows don't do well at all with a 2" drop. 1.5" max. My car is only lowered 1.5" right now. Any lower and I hit the bumpstops when going over bumps or dips on the street. This is why I 'm sending the Konis out to get them shortened by at least 20mm which is recommended by Koni. I 'll push for 25mm and see what they say

Aha, so I do have some more modding to do. I forgot about short body conversion

What's next? Convert them to double-adjustable? Maybe that 'll be next year's mod.. Or maybe I can advance the timing to over 20 from TDC and blow the motor. There's always something!

01tegguy · May 2005

if I were to only upgrade my springs (I think quite a bit on this has already been covered here) and leave the shocks stock (as they probably wouldn't need to be replaced for a while) how long do you think I could go before I would need ("need" as far as traction is concerned) to put new shocks on?

And while on the topic of shocks... As shocks work as dampers against the springs, I'm guessing that stronger shocks will let there be more feel to the road since the car will stop bouncing from the springs much sooner. If the shocks damp the springs TOO much then I would guess that the car would probably be too stiff and actually lose some traction. Am I correct in these assumptions? If I am (or even if i'm not), what kind of shock specs should somebody with a teg be looking for with a stock weight car? or a lightened car? any favorite companies?

Another question I have about handling is on the topic of tire size on front wheel drive cars. Does anybody have any experience with this on a teg? I know that the amount of wheel space on a teg is minimal (unless you get a wide body kit, or custom flared fenders) but has anybody managed to get wider tires in the front of a teg? Wider front tires should theoretically give front wheel drive cars more traction, just as rear wheel cars have wider rear wheels. I have read that some are doing this to their front wheel drive cars for two traction reasons: to get better launches and to improve turning (mainly to reduce understeer on fwd)
I understand that a larger traction patch would also slow the car down going straight, but I think thats worth it for a more balanced corner execution. IF somebody by chance DOES have experience or is educated enough to know the effects that this would have on the rest of the car then I have more questions:

at what point in the cars engine upgrades would the other parts of the car need to be upgraded? (such as axles, clutch...) after an added 30 hp? 50hp? I guess this question would rely on the specs of the parts on a teg, but as I don't know them, the question is out there.

with a few engine mods would wider tires give enough extra traction to hurt a lightened (say 12lb) flywheel? (during a launch)

last but not least for now, have any of you been to team-integra.net? they have a couple guys on there that do great tech articles and there really is a wealth of knowledge there for anybody interested. The articles go from teg specific to parts specific, where the physics involved with the parts is explained.

That's a lot of post but hopefully it can be answered eventually. Take your time and take care.

Thanks,

Devin

Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

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