Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

chem123 · October 2001

CJ, also check out the SSR Competitions (Tirerack.com). For wheels weights:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cvlocas/wheels.html

Harry, have gone back and forth with Tirerack about the center caps. So far, they have offered a discount price of something like $26 for all four center caps. I'm not giving up yet, though .

cjhannan · October 2001

I like your taste in wheels. I saw a set of the SSR competitions on a vtec Civic at the southeastern divisional event in August -- they are a reaallly nice looking wheel. They're also one of the lighter wheels out there, but with that they also come with a high price tag (around $300/wheel if memory serves). At that price, I'd probably go with my favorites -- Volk TE-37s!!! But I'm really not thrilled about dropping $1,200 on a set of wheels, so I'm going to keep on looking...

chem123 · October 2001

How do you like the O.Z. Superleggera? 15x7 is $200 per wheel but only weighs 11.0 lbs. The Kosei wheel in the same size is 13.5 lbs but is only $139 a wheel. The 9.2 lb SSR Competitions in 15x7 are $299. Volk TE37 are around $310 each and weigh exactly the same as the SSRs.

wiwang · October 2001

Do you guys know if a AEM CAI will void my warranty? and is it worth installing if my car is less than 6 months old? how hard is it to install for someone with not much car fixing experience (i've changed the oil filter on a camry before..hehe!) and also, i've read about 10-15hp gains from a CAI...but does that require the installation of a freer flowing exhaust as well? how much more hp would an exhaust add?

Thanks in advance for any info!

cjhannan · October 2001

Sounds like you definitely know your data about wheels! The OZ superleggera look OK, but too similar to my stock GSR wheels to tempt me. For the $$, the Kosei are a great choice -- about 1.5 lbs. lighter than stock and you get an extra inch in wheel width. If I'm going spend the big $$, I'll probably go with the Volk's -- they're only $11 extra per wheel, plus you get the choice of a few colors, and as far as know the SSRs only come in the darkish gunmetal gray.

cjhannan · October 2001

As far as bolt-on performance value for the $$, the AEM CAI is the way to go. As you mentioned, it can give you 10-15 hp at the wheels and you'll definitely notice the difference. As far as your warranty, it depends on who you ask but I'd say it probably would void your warranty because car dealers are always looking for ways not to fix things at their cost. I installed mine after 50k miles so the warranty had already expired. Then again, I bought my '97 GSR in late '99 w/ 41k miles so I didn't have the same dilemma as you. Another intake option you could consider is the Comptech Icebox. It's supposed to produce similar performance gains as the AEM plus Acura dealers sell and install Comptech products. You'd have to double check with your particular dealer if they recognize Comptech as factory authorized replacement parts so that your warranty would still be in tact.

chem123 · October 2001

I believe the dealership still has to prove that whatever was modified caused a problem and then the warranty will not cover it. As far as difficulty installing, it will make it a lot easier if you take the passenger-side front wheel off and jack the car up. You basically will have to cut some metal tubing and connect hoses. Good luck!

wiwang · October 2001

Thanks for the info guys. I'm just itching to go ahead and get and install the CAI. do you think an exhaust is needed?

chem123 · October 2001

Just be careful with the install if you are doing it yourself because it can get pretty involved. As far as exhaust, it depends what your goals are. Back when I was this [] close to getting a 01 GS-R I figured my first mods to be AEM cold air, ITR rear sway bar, Bridgestone RE730 tires, Tsunami front lip (love how it looks

), and eventually Koni adjustable struts with Ground Control coilovers. Of course, I planned to do most of these after a couple thousand miles on the car with the first mods being the intake and sway bar. When I got tired of the stock tires and suspension, I would replace those. Wheels would have come sooner or later and I probably would have gotten some Koseis or gone for the Rota Slipstreams. My goals were pretty much handling, a little power, and a little appearance. Just make sure you kinda map out what you want it to be in the future so you don't wish you had spent the money on other stuff.

wiwang · October 2001

Funny you mentioned front lip spoiler...I was planning on getting one as well. where can i go to buy one? how do the Tsunami front lip look? i want to mod my car to look a little different than the others, but i also dont want to look too rice boyish. i was also thinking of some side skirts or whatever you call those...the factory black ones are a little plain...and i wish they were red to match the body color. oh, also, i wanted to get a mesh grill thing on the car. I read somewhere that someone actually made their own before using the screen door screen material...any thoughts? is it hard to make and install one on my own?

In terms of goals...i was planning to up the power and handle and appearance a little. Im not planning on auto-x or street race, but i'd like a little more oomph. I plan to get the AEM CAI, probably an exhaust, a rear sway bar (probably comptech since i hear good things about it...but it's a little expensive...how's neuspeed?), and maybe a set of wheels later on. Then maybe some springs...but that's probably last cuz i think it'll look better a little lowered with bigger wheels...17in at most.

cyber_x · October 2001

...where on the car do you want the mesh grill?

If you plan to put one in the lower part of the bumper (the "mouth" part), that's easy to do on your own. It most likely won't look as neat as a pre-made one from GrillCraft or a similar company, but it'll only take a few dollars and maybe 30 minutes to do. What most folks do is buy some wiring from a hardware store and cut it into the appropriate size. Then slip the piece into the slot, bend it around the inside edge of the bumper, and fasten it on with small screws or adhesive.

Note: Don't use the screen door material. Use something stiffer that will hold its shape better.

Doing it this way won't look as nice as buying a pre-made kit, but it's cheap and quick.

Mods-wise, the most popular basic mods are the ins and outs - intake, exhaust, header. Combined, they'll give you some so-so power increase, but only at the high end, and you'll most likely lose low-end power. If you want to lower the car, then I'd personally recommend looking into some adjustable coilovers (just my opinion).

As for looking too riceboyish...unfortunately, the majority of folks consider pretty much any modified import (especially an Integra with grill, exhaust, aftermarket body kit, and lowering springs) a [non-permissible content removed] car.

chem123 · October 2001

I personally think you will get more smiles out of your car if you spend your money on more performance-oriented stuff which it sounds like you want to do. The Tsunami lip looks like this

http://www.groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=3171

I just named it off the top of my head. I like the OEM front lip best of all, but they are hard to find as Acura discountinued them a couple months ago. If you could get lucky and get one of those and then take your car to a body shop to have the black side skirts color-matched with your car, it would look great IMO. The "gutter-guard" mesh stuff has been done before. I don't like how it looks in many cases but you can always go to Home Depot and spend about $3 and play around with it on your grill. Suspension modifications are also a great thing because they enhance your handling over stock by a large margin and make your car look better as it is lowered. As hard-core performance is not your main goal, I would probably go with the Tokico Illumina Suspension kit (struts and springs $535 shipped). I would definitely not recommend getting just springs as they will wear out your stock struts fast and give you a bouncy ride and then you will have to replace the struts anyway. A Type R rear sway bar will cost you $100-$125 (with all the necessary hardware) and will take out a lot of the body roll. Exhaust is okay for sound and looks but don't expect too much hp from it. I personally think the stock exhaust looks fine on a GS-R. For wheels, look on tirerack.com to compare how several wheels look on your particular car. Then, get the Kosei K1 Racing wheels to be like the rest of us in this forum

vmaniqui · October 2001

Just an advice to folks in Northern California, particularly in Concord, to avoid dealing with Acura of Concord delearship. I had my windshield installed about 3 years ago by them and when i had it replaced again a month ago by Action Auto Glass, i was surprised to find out that the windshield metal frame has rust about a foot long. It was a result of the shoddy workmanship of Acura of Concord . They subcontracted the windshield work without my knowledge to Dan's Auto Glass. I paid them parts and labor and now they're pushing me to talk to the subcontractor. They would not even try to help me out and rectify their shoddy workmanship. AVOID ACURA OF CONCORD (Northern California).

thanks,
victor maniquiz
510-222-8313

only1harry · October 2001

I 'm been so busy with work. I was also away in Phily for a disaster recovery test with limited access to the Internet.
BTW, no I haven't upgraded to coilovers yet. I 'm still on my old H&R OEs which is why I 've been getting my butt kicked by another '00 GSR with GC coilovers and lowered about 2-2.5". This GSR also has a Comptech 22mm sway & tie bar combo.
I 've been loosing by about .3sec. to this guy who in pretty much a novice and this is his first season! I 'm convinced his setup and handling much better than mine although the guy auto-xes religiously and drives around to 3 different states to different clubs (NY,NJ,PA) and has done at least 20 events or more he tells me, plus auto-x school!
Anyway, this past Sunday although I lost to him by .3sec. (I drove the hek out of my car and actually PAX'd the lowest I ever did), in the fun runs I managed to exactly match his time of 34.35 so now I 'm happy to know that my car (and myself) can be just as fast as his. I 'd probably do better in his car given my experience but this kid (23yrs old) seems to be a very good driver. When I watch him drive I 'm like wow, that looks fast, but now I know what I look like when I 'm out there. The guy complemented me too and said the same thing, that when he watches me he knows what he looks like..
I 'm very comfortable with the H&R & the Konis that I 'm reluctant to get coilovers but I know I 'll have to, to be more competitive. If I can loose or be matched by a first season driver (however exceptional this driver may be) there 's no doubt in my mind that coilovers is the way to go. I 'll most likely get them in early spring in probably 400-450lb flavor. This guy has the regular street kit which if I 'm not mistaken are 350F/280R or 380F/300R. I 'll probably go with 450F/400R minimum.
Oh, I fogot to mention that about 3-4 weeks ago I had FTD for the duration of the day runs for the first time in my life!! That was shortly lived because in the afternoon the temps warmed up and the other faster cars started getting traction and of course beat my times like they usually do.
That felt really good though..

chem123 · October 2001

Met up with a bunch of honda-tech guys in DFW the other day and there were so many sweet GS-Rs. Of course they were all complimenting us little guys with the hatches and CRXes

. It was cool b/c one of my favorite GS-Rs was there b/c he just moved from San Fran. I had talked to him a lot before, but seeing his car was pretty special. Supersonic blue, AEM, Comptech header and exhaust, CTR intake cam, ITR exhaust cam, cam gears, CTR tranny(!), VAFC, B&M FPR, ACT clutch, ignition, Konis, Eibachs, Neuspeed upper strut/rear tie, JDM rear strut bar, Skunk rear sway, Dunlop SP5000, etc. A good 166 whp all told. Of course, the rear sway tore out and he had to have it reinforced. He is also planning on GCs in the future as the Prokits have gotten a little soft for him. All the other cars were pretty much modded in the same way. Only one car there with a $4k paint job and massive carbon fiber rear wing!

Oh yeah, if you haven't already, be sure to check out the December issue of SCC b/c it has a sweet feature on some awesome handling cars...a "g-test" if you will. I enjoyed it.

only1harry · October 2001

I 'm told I put down easily over 1.0g with my Kumho auto-x tires and I wouldn't be surprised if it were more. Considerably more, because this past weekend I drove like I 've never driven before (had good competition in my class) and when I got out of the car after having a realy good run, I felt dizzy like I had just stepped down from a rollercoaster where your brains are scrambled (actually your brain bangs up against your scull from the sudden turns) from the high G forces.
I saw the new Z06 Vette 405hp a few weeks ago up closed & personal. The guy let me sit in it (not much room) Now that's sweet! The mags said they got 1.0g on the skidpad with its factory street tires. That car was VERY fast but its driver was so & so. You could tell it had great handling and traction just by the way it was turning or by the way its driver would straighten it out easily when he realized was going too fast into a turn or to avoid wiping out (auto-xing). At the end of the day one of the club officials who is also an Evolution School instructor drove it in the fun runs and got 2 secs faster than its owner. That was about 1 sec. faster than my best. BTW, he took it for 2 runs. He did better with the traction control off.
I 'm really interested in the upcoming SCCA issue. I want to see what kind of g's they pull with modded cars and what kind of suspension they use. Thanks for that info chem..
I remember about 2yrs ago, they took a '99 Civic Si and put GC coilovers, Illumina shocks I think, sway bar, tie bars, etc. and got 1.01g on street tires! I think they were using Dunlop SP9000.

chem123 · October 2001

Already have it...my brother has a subscription

. The cheapest car in it (but not the slowest) was a del Sol w/ b18c5 engine, KYB AGX struts, skunk2 sleeve-overs (550lb F, 450lb R), front upper strut bar, and a rear sway. All cars were given a set of BFG G-force KD tires to even out the playing field a little. The two VW bugs (old-school, of course) were pretty insane. The crazier of the two weighed something like 1,700 lbs. and had 225 hp! There were also two 94 Supras, a lightly modded ITR, pretty stock WRX (didn't do too shabby), an RX7 (won the thing), 914 Porsche, and a Cosworth. Pretty sweet comparo. It was cool how the slower 60 hp bug could kinda stay with the 600+ hp Supras on the road course.

only1harry · October 2001

RX7? They 're pretty awesome! They do pretty well in auto-xing too. They 're really good handlers with just aftermarket shocks. That's all you need.

chem123 · October 2001

yup, it won!...and with just aftermarket shocks. What do you think about the setup on the del sol?

only1harry · November 2001

good

Haven't had time to pick up the mag yet..actually I keep forgetting

Why don't you tell us what G's some of these cars pulled?

chem123 · November 2001

10 WRX .872g
9 ITR .913g
8 del Sol .926g
7 Beetle .937g
6 Supra .948g
5 Cosworth .956g
4 Porsche 914-6 .985g
3 Supra 1.009g
2 Beetle (the insane one) 1.011g
1 RX-7 1.035

The slalom results were pretty close in the top part of the group with the ITR, more-modified Bug, one Supra, and the 914 all being within .1 mph (from 71.6mph to 71.7mph). The RX-7 got 72.4 mph

.

only1harry · November 2001

thanks for all those stats. That Beetle must 've had a lot of suspension mods. If some of these cars can do 1.03g on street tires now I know I can do 1.1-1.2g on the Kumho auto-x R tires. I don't know if that test is completely fair. I mean the Type-R takes 195-50 or 205-50-15" tires. The RX-7 takes like 245-40-16" or something like that. If you put that kind of rubber on an ITR it will probably hit 1g too..
The RX-7 is awesome. There are usually 2-3 of them that auto-x with me, lately I 've been doing slightly better than them or match them at worst. Of course all they have is adjustable shocks, but they 're very fast and nimble. I 'm very happy to keep up with them with my relatively soft suspension. I just got back from another auto-x event. An STS (modded on street tires) GSR with GC coilovers/konis & 22mm sway came close to my times (only .6 sec. away)! He had 400lb-F/350lb-R spring rates and lowered about 2.5" (a little too much drop for my taste). Really good handler. This car seemed like it rotated on a dime. Had the new Falken Azenis on as did many other cars. Everyone says that is a really good street tire and very sticky. My brother is buying them for his Type-R too. I hear they 're pretty inexpensive. This guy had faster times than at least 15 other cars with R tires. With the proper suspension setup street tires can work better than some cars with R tires and inferior suspension.

chem123 · November 2001

I don't know, I guess I don't hold too much stock in a car's skidpad. In fact, in any magazine I've read with a BMW tested, it always has a lower skidpad than the cars it is being compared against yet has a higher slalom. Having a good slalom seems to mean more because it takes into effect tires, suspension rates, chassis balance, etc. You can just have wide tires and have a great skidpad. Oh yeah, it was funny about the less modified VW in the article (60hp) that they had to give the Bug a 1/4 head start on the slalom so that it could get up to its potential speed that it could handle through the cones. The other, heavily-modded VW (225hp) of course had no such trouble.

cjhannan · November 2001

Hey guys, what's up? Doesn't look like I've missed too much. I've had some unexpected changes at work over the past few weeks that have keep me crazed and my home dial-up connection sucks the big whazoo so I haven't been able to surf for quite some time. All is well on my end. I finished my last two autocrosses with a 4th place (just one spot out of a trophy) and then a 2nd place with a trophy on last Sunday (our last event of the season) Woohoo! To my great surprise, I actually PAX'd 18th overall. Gotta love the index for STS -- I believe it's the smallest % for all classes. All I can say is that more seat time and the Evolution school helped me a bunch. It was a nice way to end my rookie year... More later, gotta run.

chem123 · November 2001

Does your rookie year really end already? How long is the autox "season"?

chem123 · November 2001

You guys know anything about this? Would an Si's rear brakes be a better fit for my EK than an Integra's? Or are the components relatively the same? Anything you know that could help (like where to look, what to get) would be great!

only1harry · November 2001

back CJ. Congrats on your trophy on the last event of the season!! Yeah you STS guys have like the lowest pax of all! I think HS might be the only one that 's lower, not sure though because they can still use R tires.
My Kumhos are starting to go and I can see a little bit of the steel belt on one spot but I have one more event this season and I 'm going. I want to run these tires to the ground anyway. This I think will be my 18th or 19th event this year but my problem is that I drive to the events on the Kumhos and don't ever take them off (too lazy). I could 've easily gotten another 5-6 events out of them if I didn't drive on them.
They don't grip like they used to anymore but I figure what the hek, I won't be racing for another 5mos so I gotta go

only1harry · November 2001

You really don't need to upgrade your Civic's drums to discs in the rear. My '97 HB braked very very well. Your car is light and can stop quickly. All you gotta do is upgrade the front rotors to Brembo OEM solid or slotted rotors, get some AXXIS Metal Masters pads, AEM pads, or Porterfield R4S (expensive) if you want ultimate braking power. I sold my car with 140k mi. on it and it still had the original rear brakes!
I think the rear Si and Integra brakes are the same. If you do decide to go that way, remeber you can use the Si or Teg hub/spindle, etc. but don't have to use factory rotors. Get Brembo ones, they 're cheaper!
BTW, my auto-x season is usually from the middle/end of March to the middle of November. We get a solid 6-7 mos so it's not bad. Now I 'm talking about 4-5 different clubs (2 of them SCCA). Some clubs start in May but run till Nov. Others start Mar-April but end in September, etc.
The only thing is, it's warm from May through August, but the other months can be cold and even get snow! It sucks for R tires. This weekend's forecast calls for high 40's to 50deg. To those with R tires, auto-xing in those temps, means it will feel almost like driving on ice! Very tricky and you have to restrain yourself so that you don't spin out or lose control of the car. November is definitely not my favorite month to race. You also have to work at the same time and freeze my butt off chasing cones that other cars knock down. The good thing is, not too many people usually show up in cold weather so there's time for more runs.

only1harry · November 2001

147 people showed up on this last auto-x event and the temps stayed in the 40's! I could not get any traction at all and since there were so many drivers, the tech inspection went on longer, started late and only got 4 runs.
It was so slippery (for those of us with R tires), I wiped out 3 out of 4 runs. I didn't go off course or anything and didn't even hit 1 cones. Just slided sideways and came to a full stop on a 180deg u-turn like turn. So I only had 1 good run which was so & so (in the fun runs I did almost a second better) but still managed to get a 1st place trophy in my class (only 5-6 cars in my class this time). Plus my club, the one I 'm registered with, took the "challenge cup" because we had the most points out of all the other clubs. We had 11 1st place wins compared to 8 of another club. So for the 3d year in a row our club gets to keep the big shiny trophy (gotta give it to another club if we loose next year, it's just symbolic..). So my season ended well even though I had 1 good run. The GSR & the Kumhos served me well with at least 17 trophies this year. Got by butt kicked twice, both times by other GSRs with coilovers but I 'll be ready for them next year :-)

chem123 · November 2001

So Harry, if you were theoretically upgrading the brakes on your old hatch what would you do? Brembo rotors, AXXIS pads, stainless steel brake lines? So the rear drums don't need to be replaced for faster stops? Will rear discs only give me less fade after many stops? Will be posting up pictures of my car probably within three weeks.

swinga7 · November 2001

Aem sells front big brake kits for around 5 hundred dollars. dont know how much the brembos cost. might be worth looking into though

your back brakes dont need to be replaced because thats not where you need stopping power. when you hit your brakes the weight of the car pushes down and forward on the front brakes..so better front brakes mean better stopping.

only1harry · November 2001

Brembo rotors (OE/factory diameter) with AXXIS Metalmaster pads. I have this setup on my GSR and works very well, noticeable difference!
A '98 Civic HB is very light and weighs a little over 2300lbs with A/C. All you need to do is upgrade the front brakes.
Brembo rotors cost me $26 or $28 each for the front (plus about $10-15 shipping for both). AXXIs pads are $35 for BOTH front including shipping! You 're talking about $100 for the whole setup with shipping!
You shouldn't need SS braided lines unless you do track events, road racing, etc.
If your rotors are in good shape, I 'd just replace the pads for now. You 'll notice a big difference. Just remember no matter what aftermarket pads you get, they 'll dust if they are any good. So rinse off the brake dust from your wheels once or twice a week.
The big brake AEM kit I think is way too expensive. It is NOT $500 for both sides. It's at least $400 PER side but comes with calipers & pads. You 'd also be adding more weight to the front wheels and that will have adverse effects on acceleration and handling.
I Know a guy who upgraded to Type-R brakes on his GSR. He said his car had slower acceleration and steering response got worse. It's the same as putting several pound heavier rims on your car.
Let me know if you want to know where I got the rotors. The pads you can get from the groupbuycenter. From Coximports. They always have sales on the Axxis. If you don't see it on the groupbuycenter give them a call. The price is always the same, $35 w/shipping for Civic.

chem123 · November 2001

for the help with the brakes! I think you are both talking about two different AEM brake kits. One uses OEM calipers while the other is a four piston caliper kit. The latter is really expensive. The cheaper one goes for under $400. Sounds like I will replace my rotors and pads with Brembos and AXXIS (I have heard their pads are better than AEM's).

only1harry · November 2001

although I 've never owned AEM pads, one of my friends I race with said he barely noticed a difference with them on his '98 Integra LS. I noticed a big difference with the AXXIS MM. These pads gave me much more confidence and now just slightly touching the brake pedal, puts a smile on my face

Almost feel like my brother's Type-R. I can't quite explain it. The car just decelerates much faster and sometimes I wait till I 'm a few feet behind a car before using the brakes. Before with the factory pads, I had to brake way earlier and paid more attention to keeping my distance from other cars. Now all that has changed..
Could be a combination of everything, Brembo rotors, pads, Goodridge SS lines, and fresh (Honda) brake fluid that were done at the same time. I know that the fluid & SS lines don't make any difference unless you 're racing on the track where you 're heating up your brakes & fluid really bad. Pads are supposed to be what make the biggest difference.

cjhannan · November 2001

speaking of Brembo rotors, do still have the ph. # for that place you ordered your rotors from -- Was it called Colletti, or something like that? My front rotors have warped slightly so it's time to replace them. I'll probably upgrade to SS brake lines, too. Where did you get yours from? Thanks.

chem123 · November 2001

Exactly what I was thinking! I looked up Summit Racing and saw that they have Brembo OEM rotors for around $32.95 (free shipping) although I could not find an application for either of our cars on the catalog page so the price is just kind of an educated guess. They also have Goodridge SS brake lines for $129.95. I really am not sure if these prices are good...just throwing them out there. Oh yeah, and Harry: I'm justing waiting for Beaks to come out with a reinforcement kit for the ITR rear sway and then I'll buy it and a roll bar to make for a sweet handling hatch! If the Beaks RK doesn't pan out, I'll probably go with the Suspension Techniques rear sway only as I've heard good things about their (19mm) bar. Let me know what you think.

only1harry · November 2001

Yes, I got the Brembos from Colleti Motorsports here's the info:
116C West Park Rd.
Dayton, OH 45459
Steve or Vinny
937-312-1532, 1533

I paid $28 ea. for the front GSR rotors & $24 for the rear. Shipping was $15-20 for all 4. Later I also bought 2 front '96-00 Civic Brembo rotors also from Colleti, $26 ea.
Paid $99.99 + $9 shipping (ripoff, the things weigh less than 1 lb) for Goodridge SS lines, the whole set. A&H & everyone else was $119-129.. too much. I can't remember who I bought them from, I 'll look for the receipt. They used to advertise on the groupbuycenter.. Let me look at my favorites folder.. I think I bookmarked it. Yep, I found them. Lightning Motorsports! $99.39 for all Acuras & Hondas. I remember it took me like half a day to find that price. URL: www.lightningmotorsports.com. Lightning's s+h charges are a little excessive but have really low prices. A&H that is one state away from me (in PA) wanted $11 to ship them, plus they were like $125. I don't order anything from them although many people on the East coast order from A&H. I think their prices are high as well as their shipping charges. Companies always make money on the shipping. I don't mind paying like $1-2 more than their cost on shipping because they have to pay for someone to package everything up & ship it out, but doubling the shipping charges, I have a problem with. You can go to ups.com, put in a vendor's address and your address, estimate the weight of the package, and it 'll give you the UPS shipping charges. Then you have a pretty good idea how much the vendor is trying to make on shipping..

chem123 · November 2001

Yeah...I thought the prices I found were a little on the high side

. Thanks a lot Harry! Oh yeah, what do you think about rear sway/roll bar plans?

cjhannan · November 2001

I appreciate all the pricing and shop information. I'm sorry to say, Harry, that I encountered the same brake bleeding snafu you did earlier this year. I decided to install speed bleeders on my car and do a thorough flush of the brake system with ATE Super Blue brake fluid. All was going well when suddenly I wasn't getting any brake fluid to move while pressing down the brake pedal. At first I thought that the speed bleeder were getting clogged b/c the original brake fluid residing in the master cylinder was gawd awful dirty looking. So I put the orginal bleed screws back on and that didn't help. Thankfully, I was attempting this with several other guys around who are for more adept at auto mechanic things than I. One thing lead to another and we determined that I had blown the seal on the master cylinder --- arrgggh! So, we swapped it out with a different MC from another GSR that belonged to a friend's sister. (I was up in Tennessee at the time and HAD to get back to work the next day. This happened late Sat. evening all the good part stores had closed). Any who, I still don't have a great feeling brake pedal and believe somehow I'm still getting air into the system -- I've bled the brakes one time since this all happened and got mucho air out of the rear brakes. That helped alot but now I'm getting a mushy pedal again. Not sure if we botched the re-installation job of if the MC we got of the other GSR was weak. I understand that a new MC from the Acure dealership is over $400 and is about $250 wholesale. I can pick up a re-built one of Napa, Auto Zone, or one of those places for about $85 (which includes the core charge) but I'm not sure that's the best way to go because I don't think it's wise to cut corners when dealing with your brakes... That's why I'm contemplating a total overhaul brake job that includes a new MC, new rotors and pads, and SS brake lines. Can you say expensive? I hate it when simple jobs go bad!

only1harry · November 2001

That sucks! I went through the exact thing with the MC. You have to be careful. I 've heard the MCs are different from one year to the next. They tried putting a '96 one first on my car and it was totally different. Then they finally installed a used '98 I think but that felt all mushy and had long pedal travel. Drove straight to the dealer but I was lucky mine was still under warranty and got a brand new MC. They also refused to install the ATE Blue. I don't mind, the S2K and Type-R use the same Honda brake fluid. If it's good enough for them and produces negligeable or no fading at the track, then it's good enough for me.
See if you can find an MC at a junkyard from the same model year as your car. I 've also heard that the rebuilt ones from major parts stores are not bad either. Good luck!
I hate to admit it, but from now on I 'll bring mine in to the Acura dealer when it comes to bleeding brakes. They did a great job with mine.

only1harry · November 2001

Yes, your sway bar options are fine. Anything is better than what you have now, or.. don't have I should say.

cjhannan · November 2001

What I learned from this episode is that you should ALWAYS put a block of wood under the brake pedal when bleeding the brakes so you don't push the brake pedal all the way to the floor. Funny thing about it is that I know several people with speed bleeders, bleed their brakes all the time while pushing the pedal to floor, and have never had this problem. But, they all have Type Rs -- must be something a whole lot different with the MC on those cars.

One more thing -- A group of us in the Atlanta area are heading to a "dyno day" on Dec. 1st. I'll be dynoing my car for the first time. Care to venture a guess about what kinds of numbers I'll see? Too bad I don't have any dyno runs stock, so I guess I'll just guestimate my stock whp at around the standard 140ish. I'm hoping to see 155-160 with the mods I currently have (AEM CAI, JDM 4-1 header, Carsound hi-flo cat, and custom 2.5" stainless exhaust with Magnaflow resonator and muffler). Should be fun!

chem123 · November 2001

sounds pretty sweet thus far but it kinda sounds like you are in need of a fuel pressure regulator to even out your air/fuel ratio. It would be cool to tune, too. I am definitely going to check out the autox events in my area come March as I will have my suspension all set by then, as well as the brakes and the car diet. With the autox guys, what is the consensus on keeping/taking out the power steering?

cjhannan · November 2001

Good point about the fuel pressure regulator, but I'm not going to go that route for two main reasons: first, I'm waiting to see the results from my dyno run to find out if I've got any dips or peaks in my power curves, especially in the torque curve. Having any irregularities here would suggest the need to do some tuning with a VAFC but I don't want to fork over the $$ until I see the results from my dyno runs. And second, fuel pressure regulators might be illegal in STS, though I need to double check on that one, while VAFCs are perfectly legal in STS. Besides, I'll be able to achieve the same results with ironing out A/F ratio with the VAFC over the fuel pressure regulator, plus I'll have the extra option of playing around with the VTEC crossover setting with the VAFC.

As far as consensus re: removing the belt to your power steering goes, I know a few guys that do this, but most of us leave it on because we daily drive our cars and taking it off would mean we have to work harder driving our cars around town,lol! There's one guy over at H-T.com with a '99 or '00 GSR and he's got the exact same set up as I do (except he uses a stock exhaust). He dyno'd his car and got ~160whp with the power steering connected and ~163 without it. So, there is a measurable improvement to be realized by taking it off, but it's such a small relative difference (~1.8%) it's hard to say what this would translate to on an autocross course.

Happy Turkey Day!

cjhannan · November 2001

I forgot to mention. The only adjusting I'll do to my car between my 3 or 4 dyno runs is to change the timing from 16 degrees BTDC to 18 degree BTDC. Many folks advocate doing this as a safe way to eek out a few more ponies but, again, it will only be about 1-3hp so the results may be negligible...

only1harry · November 2001

Yes, too bad you don't have stock dyno #s, but I think you should be very close to 160 if not over.
I know a guy with DCSports SS 4-1 header, Apexi (I think N1, 2.5") exhaust & AEM CAI on his '00 GSR. that put down 158whp & 119.6ft-lbs. This is on a '00 GSR with low miles, I think 10-12k mi. He doesn't auto-x, just visits sometimes and comes over & talks to me.
Now I know there are differences between '97 & '00. The exhaust & the intake manifold are different on the '00, even different than my '99, but differences should be very minor.
Since you have the free flow cat and most likely a better header and/or exhaust, I think 160 is very realistic. The only thing that might make a difference is mileage or the condition of the motor, valvetrain, etc.
Now the question that's been holding me back from getting a H&E, is that since I already have 152whp and 116.5ft-lbs with just the AEM, is another 6-7whp worth $1,000 + labor, for a good header & exhaust? Right now I can't bring my self to do it, unless my header or exhaust needed replacement. I have not seen anything that indicates that these 2 mods give the other person the upper hand in auto-x, because all of the Integras I go up against have them, and only the ones with coilovers & better suspension have managed to beat me. Even if they give the others a .1-.2sec advantage I seem to make it up on skill. So as it stands, I 'm not convinced or ready to spend over a grand on those, but what I have been thinking about lately, is a VAFC to lower the VTEC crossover. Now that should help me accelerate faster when exiting turns or on a low speed course where power early on and at lower RPMS counts a lot. Half the time or more, I 'm not in VTEC in 2nd gear or as soon as I hit VTEC I have to brake for a turn. It would be really nice to be able to get VTEC between 5-5.5K RPM. I can see my times easily dropping from such a mod. The downside of a VAFC is mucho tunning on the dyno and that means more $$. So that looks like it might be my next mod. I don't think it should kick me out of DSP. What does the book say CJ? I don't think it's a problem, come to think of it, I 've seen a CSP Civic Si with that mod.

only1harry · November 2001

I wouldn't do it. My '97 Civic didn't have it and it wasn't easy to steer at low speeds. 1-2hp won't help you much in auto-x. Or just try it and see if how you like it and how it feels. P/S is a power rubbing option I don't mind keeping.

cjhannan · November 2001

Harry, I understand your hesitation about getting a H/E. They can be pricey for the incremental hp gains you'll see, and what they do to improve your auto-x performance is debatable. The other consideration (which I didn't realize until I had them put on my car) is what they provide for everyday, around town driving. For me, my daily driving enjoyment has increased considerably because the car feels peppy-er, has better throttle response, and I simply love the new note at my tail pipe. Hearing the VTEC crossover now is a major kick in the pants, too. I know your GSR is not your daily driver anymore so this consideration might not appeal to you at all. To each his own...

As far as the VAFC kicking you out of DSP, I don't think it would. But my rulebook is at home and I'll have to double check on that for you. But basically, everything that's legal in ST is legal in SP, and the VAFC is legal in ST so that's why I think you'd be fine. Any way, if you'd like to move you VTEC x-over to 5-5.5K, you would be RAISING the x-over point, wouldn't you? I'm not sure if '97s are tuned differently than '00s, but right now I thought the GSR x-over is at about 4500 rpm. Now that I can hear it on my car, VTEC x-over happens at about 4600 rpm (as indicated by my tach) under WOT. Under 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, x-over is at about 5K. When I was driving home a few weeks ago from TN, I was able to play around with hearing the x-over on the freeway doing about 105mph by lifting or pressing the throttle to regulate the RPMs just above and below the x-over point (~4800-5000 rpm). That was pretty cool. So, please explain your thinking about having VTEC at 5-5.5.K. I'd like to hear what you know about that... Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

chem123 · November 2001

JDM 4-1 header: $400
Performance exhaust: $450
Listening to VTEC crossover on the freeway: PRICELESS

LOL...good stuff CJ. Sounds like I will keep my power steering on for the time being, thanks for the help guys. I am really curious what the SCCA handbook has to say concerning the future modification of my hatch. As much as I would like to modify my car to my liking, I don't want to get stuck in some "Outlaw" class just for one mod. Could you guys give me some insight on this matter? Like the organization of the classes, what mods most people have within the classes, and just the major distinctions between classes. Everything I've done has been bolt on, no crazy electronics, and haven't taken the head off for anything (hooray for SOHC power!). After I put the seats in and the Beaks reinforcement kit comes out for the ITR rear sway (of which I will then get), and then do the brakes (Brembos, AXXIS, and SS lines), I should be ready to roll. Of course, the other part of me says to autox first and then mod when I realize exactly what my car needs. Please tell me what you guys think and try your best at my "classes" question. Thanks.

cjhannan · November 2001

Well, I guessed wrong about the use of VAFCs in street prepared classes -- the rulebook makes no mention of using VAFCs or other piggy-back control devices as they do in the section on street touring. And, as you know, unless it is explicitly mentioned in the rulebook, then it's not allowed. This surprises me, actually. A good bit more is allowed in SP or ST (e.g., LSD, roll cage, intake manifold, throttle body, fuel pumps, etc.). So, why not allow VAFCs or other tuning devices? Makes no sense to me

Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

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