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Toyota Highlander vs GMC Envoy
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Comments
Overall, I like the Bravada. But in Japan its probably a piece of junk considering their quality standards.
I've never said that the Envoy couldn't be a better choice for someone else. I'm sure someone who needs to tow, wants to go off-road, and isn't much concerned about long-term quality could have a great time in an Envoy. As you said, you'd rather have cheap plastic trim and more horsepower and that's your preference. I'd rather have higher quality materials and a more than capable powered engine for my needs. I didn't peg the Highlander an SUV, Toyota did. You're right, its a high-riding wagon if anything but I don't want to go down the what's an SUV road. I really don't care how it gets classified. There is much worse than the Highlander being called an SUV.
Most of the posts I've made on this topic have been to hit home the fact that Toyota has been and still is (I and others believe)a producer of quality vehicles and that the Highlander is far more likely to be of higher quality than the Envoy. Heatwave3, you don't seem to buy that point even though its been shown that many industry experts agree with my point. You seem to believe that somehow the Envoy & comapany will be different from the vehicles GM has made in the past and I don't buy that. Even more now after car-sitting the Bravada this week than before. It is clear upon entry into these vehicles that one is put together much better than the other.
What changed my perspective was the purchase of a 2001 GMC Denali XL. After owning two previous Suburbans that seemed to need regular appointments at the dealer for service, this new GM f/s SUV has been of the same kind of quality or higher than my Toyota Avalon. I now have 16,000 miles and my only visits to the dealer have been for 5 oil changes.
I think your view of the quality of new models such as the Highlander and the Envoy are too premature. Only time will tell and my latest experience (which also needs more time to be proven) is that the Envoy will be as dependable or more so than a Toyota. Its also my opinion you get more for your money in the GMC that the Highlander. Buts that's just my view.
You appear to agree with me that its reasonable for someone to find the Envoy a better choice for their needs than a Highlander, which has been the main point I've been trying to make. The sales figures would suggest that more people have found it to suit their needs than a Highlander or RX300. That's neither good nor bad as both are good vehicles, just simply that one fits more consumer's needs than the other.
Heatwave, you said you only had that 2001 Dinali XL in for 5 oil changes but didn't you also have a problem with cold air coming into the driver and passernger floor area? I seem to remember you havingair leaking into the cabin around some sort of vent. I'm not sure but I think the dealer used some sort of epoxy or silly putty to fix that for you while you brought it in for one of those oil changes. Does buying a vehicle with past quality issues not tell you something? I guess all of those loyal GM fans like you and my Chryler Van buddy share some things in common.
My wife felt some cold air on the front passenger side and on the third oil change the dealer simply tightened the screws on the air mixer box which had a slight gap due to a screw being loose. Fixed in less than five minutes during the oil change. No epoxy and no silly putty.
By my standards this would be an excellent record for any vehicle, now 1 year old with 16K miles on it and no required fixes since those adjustments on the 2nd and 3rd oil changes.
I'm not sure if that would equate to having any similarities with your Chrysler friend. BTW do you think you could share an honest appraisal of all the service required on your Sequoia or should I go look it up?
Heatwave3: I still don't agree with your interpretation of sales numbers...Oh well.
I'm judging the quality issue on first impressions and reputation. The manner in which the vehicles are put together is a predictor. If you get in a HL and try to put a fingernail in the crevices of the dashboard you are going to have a hard time finding a spot where you can do that. You would not have any trouble doing that in an Envoy. How tight these vehicles are put together will translate into squeeks and rattles as time passes.
Just because GM sales stats are robust does not mean that people are buying Envoys and Trailblazers because they are the best in fit and finish. Rather, it would appear that towing ablity and other truck like qualities favor those folks while Highlanders (car like) ride and handeling favor others.
spdmtr5: I was using the 4wd in varying conditions.
fanman8: I couldn't agree more.
My view of the sales numbers has been clear all along. Consumers find a better value in the GM vehicles over the Toyota. People make trade-offs in all their purchasing and consumers have come to the conclusion that for the money they are spending they get more from it out of the GM products than the Toyota.
Since everyone has different criteria for "value", you might find it worth spending top dollar for interior plastic that you can't get a finger nail into, while others might find that irrelevant to them. These consumers might find that they are more interested in the total interior space, or the seat design or the radio or HP or some combination.
In the end, the only interpretation I have had of the higher GM sales figures is that consumer's find a better "buy" in the GM's than Toyota. Nothing more and nothing less.
While towing is not my concern, payload is and I'm surprised to see 1325 for HL vs 1133 for Envoy-perhaps because E is so much heavier to begin with. I'm also concerned about poor gas mileage in the E, although would expect the 800 lb lighter HL to be rated better than it is. Would like to hear some mileage feedback.
I have the air suspension and the ride is very smooth and the seats are very comfortable on long trips. As far as gas mileage, I get about 18.5 with about 60/40 highway driving. I think this is good, especially with 270 hp (I tend to have a heavy foot)!
I can't tell you which one is best for you, but the Envoy worked best for me! I have 12,000 miles on my Envoy and still love it.
Good luck
I took the family to Orlando from Maryland and no one got tired and the drive was very smooth both ways. The V6 has plenty of power and good mileage # compared to comp vehicles.
This is definitely the vehicle I was looking for power, room utility and comfort, did I mention affordable. Now if they could only quite that drum.
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-01/index.html
A Light off-road event in Southern New Jersey! Come enjoy the trails!
-mike
The Highlander is a Crossover.
Wanna compare a Highlander to a GM product, compare it with it's actual competition. The Buick Rendevous and Pontiac Aztek. I think you'll find that they beat the Highlander hands down.
gm_litogation: I didn't think the HL was the most attractive design Toyota ever made but the Aztec & Rendevous are to of the UGLIEST vehicles GM has ever produced. I can't compare because I wouldn't even allow myself to even consider them when I went looking for my new vehicle. YUK! Hands down, they win the ugly duckling contest.
2002 Highlander - Good
2002 Rendezvous - Average
2002 Astek - Marginal
http://www.highwaysafety.org/news_releases/2001/pr121101.htm
NHTSA Ratings:
2002 Astek
Frontal Driver ***
Frontal Passenger ****
Roolover ****
2002 Rendezvous - TBT
2002 Highlander - TBT
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2002SUVs.html
I'll take a little movement vs. injury anyday. Oh ya and you see all that paint on the dash of the HL, that's where the dummy's knees crammed into it. Also you might wanna check out the Aztek's ratings one more time, the only reason it got a marginal is the fact that the airbag fired late. GM claims this is an isolated incident, and I would tend to believe them. The RDV's airbag fired on time, it's the same unit that is in the Aztek.
Also one other note, remember when the Aztek's test were conducted a somewhat biased media attended the demonstration. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the wonderful Dateline "investigators" rigged the test like they did with the GM Pickup. I'm sorry, but until I see the test run again with out there investigators involved, I can't accept those results.
So when I say they are on par, they are, especially considering the RDV and the Aztek come standard with side airbags. You wanna keep going with this I think you should post in the other Topic. Other than supposedly accurate test do you have anything else you would like to provide.
Unless you are towing a boat or got one helluve a deal from GM or Ford, I cannot image why anyone would buy either of the two American products, other than sheer patriotism (for which I have done in the past, and am the proud owner of a totally unrefined SVT Cobra).
I found the level of refinement and quality to be worlds apart and the number of complaints and recall prove that out. Worse yet, wait five years and see what repairs you have made, what condition the vehicle is in and what it is still worth, before passing blind passionate judgement.
If you can't deal with the HL bland styling, do yourself a favor and drive a Pathfinder. More power, sportier design, decent build quality. If you MUST buy American, I praise your patriotism, but do yourself a favor and at least drive an Explorer that stands a chance in still having the doors attached a few years down the road.
As far as the Aztec, I'm not sure how they ever get anyone close enough to actually drive one. Our local newspaper tested a yellow one and ran the article under the headline "The Road Warrior meets Pikachu". Enough said.
Did you mean with the doors still attached while it was playing turtle with all 4 wheels up or down?
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/february/20020211_dai_toyota.xml
By the way, maybe you should ask Chevy owners about their trucks, I think you might find that they are completely reliable after 5/10 years.
That's all I'm going to say, for now, you wanna keep going lets do it, we can call it foreign vs. domestics lets see what happens. Well maybe we should just call it GM vs. foreign.
http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/aztek/gallery_exterior.jsp
I like the styling of the highlander and that of the rendezvous. And since we're on the topic, I like my friends Trailblazer (envoy)(he wants the license plate to read ‘Blazin’ and no he doesn’t smoke...do you think there's something wrong with him too?)
I see the 01's sometimes, but they aren't that bad too me. Again though the 02's are alot better.
Uh hey.. what are you talking about???
"I like the styling of the highlander and that of the rendezvous. And since we're on the topic, I like my friends Trailblazer (envoy)(he wants the license plate to read Blazin and no he doesnt smoke...do you think there's something wrong with him too?)"
tombarb3: I'm trying to understand why you would think the rendevous would "blow away" the HL in "overall apparent level of quality". By the way, that Toyota "reputation" seems to be well earned.
ehl3: I totally agree(except for the explorer part). I was sold on the pathfinder right up to the point when the Highlander came out.
gm_litogation: I've had an accident in my Highlander and I couldn't feel safer. In addition, only the parts that were hit had to be replaced. Unlike other vehicles that tend to get a horrible chain reaction of things that go wrong when they're in an accident. I won't mention any names.
Highlander 38-39%
Envoy 33%
Explorer 30-31%
Food for thought for the perceived build quality, long term quality and price discussions.
Friend called it a "Butch Minivan".
While Pathfinder is more Stylish. I just purchased a Higlander for 300 over invoice ! Toyota is finally dealing.
Does anyone have performance numbers for Highlander V6? ( ie 0-60 , Qtr mile etc)
Just have not told my wife yet...
STANDING-START ACCELERATION
0-30 mph: 2.99 sec
0-40 mph: 4.47 sec
0-50 mph: 6.34 sec
0-60 mph: 8.56 sec
0-100 km/h (62.1 mph): 8.99 sec
0-80 mph: 14.88 sec
0-quarter-mile: 83.6 mph, 16.53 sec
ROLLING ACCELERATION
20-40 mph (first gear): 2.7 sec
40-60 mph (second gear): 4.6 sec
60-80 mph (second and third gears): 6.8 sec
BRAKING
80 mph-0: 234 ft
60 mph-0: 130 ft
30 mph-0: 32 ft
FUEL MILEAGE
EPA combined: 19.8 mpg
AW overall: 20.0 mpg
HANDLING
490-foot slalom: 39.4 mph
Lateral acceleration
(200-foot skidpad): 0.72 g
INTERIOR NOISE (dBA)
Idle: 45
Full throttle: 66
1. Consumer Reports Magazine, besides JD Power they have a record of unbiased evaluations over 20 years plus...If you are wondering about the Motor Trend "suv of the year" award, count the # of full page GM adds in the magazine compared to Toyota and the fact that there is lot more GM readers/subscribers than Toyota will ever be able to match.
2. The NHTSA and other safety testing organizations.
3. Edmunds own review of these two vehicles (go to the Highlander and Envoy e-groups and look in the left hand column...
4. Browse through the two e-groups and look at what people who have actually bought these vehicles are saying....
The difference is overwhelming, what I see is that if you value overall quality of engineering and materials you will buy the HL. If you tow heavy trailers, or like gadgets over vehicle quality, the Envoy is for you.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Heatwave, this statement seems out of place for someone who's a stickler for "proof"! : )
Like you said in previous posts, both vehicles are still new and reliability has yet to be determined, although Toyota does have the better reputation when it comes down to it. However, my HL still runs as smoothly as the day I got it...and I've put it through a lot!
The distinction made (by GM litigation) between the triplets and the Rendevous/Aztek/HL is real, but only important to maybe 5% of consumers. Most of the folks buying the Envoy have exactly the same need for towing that folks buying the Aztek/Rendezvous/HL have. After you realize that, lets face it, the Aztek as currently designed is history, and the Rendezvous based on Consumer Reports is only going to be purchased by diehard GM loyalists. GM doesnt really have anything to compete with the HL, unless you put credence in publications which receive most of their funding from GM advertisements....