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Comments
stereo
My new approach will be via email, fax, and telephone.
Before I get involved in any negotiation, dealer must have the Sonata Limited Standard, Steel Gray in their inventory or in transit. At the initial contact they must supply the stock number and the VIN number. If they don't have the car there is no point in dealing with that dealer until they do. Dealer getting the car from another dealer is not acceptable.
My deal is straight: No trade in; no finance; no factory options; no dealer add on options-strictly cash.
I'm looking for a price of $18500 which includes the $1500 rebate.
What was the cost before rebates and trader in?
Any dealer charges preprinted on the purchase order?
Here is the low down.
$21,800 Vehicle (2007 sonata-SE V6 with moonroof,floormats,mud guards, (auto remote installed at dealership.This is a $450 item got it for much less)
$2,500 Trade-in ( 2000 Elantra gls 81,000 miles)
Total $19,300
$ 1,568.13 sales tax (8.125 in dutchess county)
45.00 processing reg.and title
12.50 waste tire fee
100.00 registration fee
10.00 inspection fee
Total $21,085.63
-2,000 Rebate-rebate is taxed in New York
Total $19,085.63
I can not give you the salespersons name, but try the 4th month of the year
MSRP $23,105(includes remote start +$450)
Dealer Invoice $21,398 (includes remote start)
TMV (true market value) $22,314 includes remote
The only reason I bring this up is that there are many variables that bring the cost of a car down that others cannot duplicate. If you stick to the bottom line price they'll sell you the car for plus TTT and then take out rebates, now that will give folks a true representation of what you REALLY paid for your car.
Your trade was truly just less out of pocket expense
1. Negotiated price (incl. destination)
2. Options (if any)
3. Rebates (if any)
4. Documentation fees
5. Tags
6. Sales Tax
I had three dealers respond to my request for a quote and it was a waste of time. The written word is subject to so much misinterpretation.
My deal is simple: No trade in, no finance-strictly a cash buy. It is my observation that OTD is a stacked deck against you. Sales people are so evasive in giving you the numbers you are requesting.
For example, I asked if the car is in stock and what the build date is. You think I was asking for the secrets to the Atom Bomb. I couldn't get a straight answer.
My purchase will be an out of state registration but they keep including their state (NY) sales tax and inspection fee in the OTD price.
All 3 dealers said they would take care of the documentation (TTL) but when pressed all I will get as far as documents is the in-transit certificate for me to drive the car to Vermont for registration.
I'm learning. If you deal with OTD, there is no way you can compare prices. As we all know, dealers can be quite creative when it comes to the fees they charge and the gimmicks they use.
It's my opinion whether you negotiate in person or via email, ask for the price of the car, then line item every dealer fee and you pay the TTL as a separate payment. It's less confusing that way. You have control how the numbers are presented to you. Make it simple.
I have tried both ways and because it's easy for me to walk, I prefer the in person confrontation.
I have seen the enemy and it's me.
My deal was the exact same thing (during the last week of Oct). Cash purchase, no trade in. I emailed 10 dealers that I was willing to drive to, asking for an out the door price inclusive of t/t/l, because that would be the check amount I was bringing. I told them the exact car & options I wanted (Sonata GLS w/ power/mats/flaps). A fairly common package for my area if the online inventories can be trusted. I did not care about the color.
To me, this was the simplest way to go. I could care less if one dealer was charging me some bogus $5,000 shimmy-shine fee, I only needed to know what to make the check out for. How they slice up their fees is irrelevent. Very easy to compare this way.
I ended up with 3 quotes for the car I specified. Not a good return. A few dealers never responded and the others told me to call (and said things like, "we will beat any price you get"). Not interested.
Two quotes were under my target price. I picked the lowest quote (which also happened to be at a fairly close dealer) and picked out my color at the lot. I brought my check and bought the car for the amount agreed upon. The sales manager (who handled the email request) had even printed out my email (I also had brought a copy) for the salesman.
I tried the in person approach with complete failure on another type of car. Those guys could care less if you walk.
Today I went to Plaza Hyundai in Brooklyn NY to negotiate in person. I had received an email from their internet department with a quote of $17855 for the Sonata Unlimited Standard.
When I got there the manager of internet sales greeted me and assigned me to a salesman. I then understood that this negotiation was going to go nowhere. The salesman knew nothing but was making outlandish claims about the good deal he was going to give me. The original quote of $17855 magically was bumped to $21899. It was a moot point because at the price I wasn't buying. And besides, they didn't have my color (steel gray) in stock. The manager then got into the discussion using the standard cliches which led me to
walk.
Which ever way you go it starts off with the lie of a low ball quote so that they can get their grubby hands on you in their den of iniquity. That is a mistake, you can't win playing in their den.
Of the two lousy ways to buy a new car, using email is the better way to go. At the rate I'm going, I'll probably reach 90 years of age before I allow dealers to fleece me. I've got 9 years to go to do it my way at my price. Good luck to me!
I get a new car every 2 years and I have been buying cars this way since 1997 and have never been disappointed.
Exactly, and that is why all figures should be disclosed. Email or Telephone quotes are virtually worthless for any great deal.
____________________________
Retail Selling Price
Invoice Price
Dealer add-ons
Rebates/Incentives
Trade In Price (If applicable)
Tax Paid & Tax Rate (If applicable)
Tag & Title costs
Miscellaneous State fees
************************************
And to get the most car for your buck, deal down, not up!. Test drive a loaded one. Instead of the Salesman trying to upsell you, you make it clear that the extras are nice, but NOT worth the Money. If they are low on available units, or if this unit has been sitting on the lot for some time, you will be amazed what your Dealer can do for you!
My experience at the dealer convinces me that they would rather deal with a "lollipop" client than with a sharpie. I was the only one in the showroom, they had ample cars on the floor and in their inventory, and yet they did not try very hard other than play the waiting game of salesman visiting manager.
I'm thinking of giving up on the Sonata but would it be any different with some other brand of car? I don't think so.
They are not to enthused if they can't nail you with the four square ploy. If you are buying a car for cash with no trade in, it leaves them little room to massage the numbers.
The only chance of getting my deal is to wait for the end of the month and hope to find a dealer that needs to meet a bonus quota. This is the concept in the package called THE FAX ATTACK ($35). Instead of emails, you send faxes two-three days before the end of the month.
The perfect time to buy a Car is when no one else is in the showroom, or the end of the Month, or if the Dealer sold a whopping 28 Cars for the month, including mine. That was in February, and I was going to cancel my sale because they couldn't produce the Car that was getting "worked on" at the body shop. So my loaded LX cost me $9200 & one junky 05 Elantra. While the Car had a MSRP of $25K, I got it for $18K, with $700 Tax paid. They gave me $13.8K on a trade that was worth $9.5K at the most. The Elantra didn't even cost $13.8K new. I also received $3K in rebates, although HMFC kicked out. They did want an extra thousand back, and my Salesman and his floor manager were not working there 3 days later after a total management change. So they needed that Sale for reasons unimportant to me, and I just said NO to the extra Grand. And by the way, the Sale was supposed to be for a loaded V6 GLS. When they couldn't find it, I said I'll take that loaded LX or just give me my Elantra back right now!. But please know, the original V6 GLS & price is what I signed for. :shades:
I went to the dealer, he then tells me that he is selling the car to me at $2000 + below invoice, and he wanted me to pay a couple of hundred more, when i asked him dont you want to do this sale and how he would meet the numbers, he said he just had to sell 2 to meet his numbers and he would cheat. I walked out.
I always wonder, are there so many people out there who are buying the car at a higher price that these dealers in NY and NJ really dont want to sell to people who are aware and knowledgeable about the market ?
anything could be wrong? the car had dents during transportation?
this is from a volumn dealer.
Hint: if you go for it, take your cell phone along and call them from your car when you drive up. Talk with them as you are walking into the store and confirm the car is for sale. That way they can't play "bait and switch" on you. Also, if the car is sold when you get there, tell them you'll gladly buy another GLS at the same price TODAY (if you are really serious), and they might sell it to you for that--it happens.
For an 07 Limited Standard, I got an email offer of 19576 OTD (plus TTL) from a dealer here in the South. I'm not really trusting that number since it sounds pretty good. I'm assuming he misread my email when I said BEFORE the 1500 rebate...
In the beginning of my research, before I discovered the power of the internet, another dealer offered 21600 before the rebate and fees.
My problem so far with the email hunt has been the incessant calls from the dealers because I don't pick up (scared of em). So then they call me just to tell me they sent an email...
I'm seeing if the nice dealer will match the cheaper price when I return my 24 hour test drive car tomorrow (it has wind noise above 60, but I still like it so far)and we'll see what happens.
And most importantly, before you make your pitch, you have to make sure they have the car you want in their inventory. Don't fall for the line that they will get the car from another dealer. This requires a deposit which effectively takes you out of the market and control of the deal is now in their hands.
It's all very discouraging. Well, there is always Cars Direct-at least there's no haggling.
If the price is $19,576 OTD, the price is EXCELLENT
If the $19,576 has taxes, title and tags added to it for around $21,100 on the road...the price could be much better
Have you ever seen the unreadable fine print in Newspaper Auto ad's. If small type could be transmitted by Computer, Car Dealers would do so. In the mean time we must assume his price does not include State Tax, Title, Tag, License, Dealer Prep fees, Doc fees, Dealer Aftermarket Sticker "Sport Package" items like Pin Stripes, Scotch Guard, Door protectors, & Gloss treatment which can add up to $1500. That is why prices posted here are so ambigious. The true posted price should be what you paid for the Car in its entirety, excluding any DIO & Finance charges.
MXT
D
I
O
Stands for Dealer Installed Options :shades:
Cars Direct Quote: $19802
Comments please?
This is better than any price I got in NYC and Long Island.
The only question I have is the destination fee of $650.
This fee is $600 on the Monroney sticker.
Does Cars Direct play the same dealer games?
If you are unfamiliar with how to get dealer costs, if you tell me what you are looking at, I will be more than happy to help you with your research.
Every dealer also has on their invoices "hold-back" fees and "advertising" fees. Hold-back can be up to 3% of the vehicle cost and advertising can range from $400 - $800.
I also negotiated each of these OUT of my deal as well. You can see them in VERY SMALL print on the bottom of the invoice which your dealer should have no problems showing to you if they wish to be upfront.
I never buy a car without first asking to see THEIR invoice so I can see all of my options regarding keeping more money in my pocket and not theirs.
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/financing/specialoffers/special_offers.aspx
The main reason I did so well on my purchase is I collected $3000 in rebates. Is seems $2000 ($1500 plus $500 Loyal Owner) is all you will see on the "Unlimited Limited", as there are no limits to the amount produced.
As far as "hold-back" fees and "advertising" fees. You can ask to see any invoice, however they print their own, unlike the Federal sticker. And advertising is a legit cost, although inflated. Holdback & Manufacturer Incentives of $1K or more is not for us too?.
I drove my LX for two weeks before I needed to finalize the Deal.(Known as Spot Delivery). I knew I would be asked for an extra $1000 as the financing kicked. We agreed to $500 on the phone, and then I just said NO. They could have accepted a used Car back, which then can be sold again as new under Federal law. But I had a really good day that day, and dealt with the 'new' Manager. Since I had a signed contract,(which means NOTHING, read the fine print), I somehow walked away with the $24,895 loaded LX for under $18K. And due to the trade (which was a BIG factor in my deal) I only paid $700 in Tax instead of $1500!.
2007 Sonata Limited Standard
Were there any dealer fees, doc fees, administrative fees, etc.
How did you get $3000 in rebates?
It's like asking someone how much do they have in their wallet. Knowing all these numbers, so what: They give you a quote, you counteroffer with your price which includes all the numbers you mention. The salesman looks at you as if you were crazy, the manager laughs and they wish you good luck as you walk out. I have been to 11 dealers (NYC)and offered $18500 (which includes the $1500 rebate)and I didn't get a nod, not even a rebuttal. The negotiation died on the spot.
Ha! The magic of numbers.
The Ultimate magic # is your Credit score. I didn't even have a Job, yet drove off with the new Sonata :shades: . While I have the 2006 LX, for 2007 there are only 3 Models available in North America.:confuse:
GLS
SE
Limited
My 235 HP LX is now known as the Limited with only 234 HP.
Rebates were as follows:
$1000 V6 Model
$1000 Hyundai Financing
$1000 Loyal Owner
If your polite, nice, and willing to spend at least 30 minutes making a deal, that typically goes a long way. It's when people come in with a chip on their shoulder and act like the price they want is "owed" to them that it becomes an issue. I just happend to witness this same thing the day I bought my car. Guy that came in was a total jerk. Came in with a stop watch...set it for 30 minutes and looked at the salesman and said you have 30 minutes to sell me this car for this price or I'm walking out the door. He walked out the door and I got to hear the inner rumblings of the sales manager and salesman as they discussed what this guy just did. Not the best way to make friends and have them "want" to sell you a car.
Just my thoughts and I may be totally off on this but things just don't sound right relative to your inability to cut a deal that acceptable to you and the dealer.
And on and on and on it goes. I guess I'm just unlucky-I never meet a nice dealer where he is not looking to pluck me. You are a fortunate person cableguy06-you have dealt with a nice, honest dealer. We should all be so fortunate.
If interested, the dealership I purchased from is in PA about 45 minutes North of Philly. Do you want me to see if I can work out something for you here? Only draw back is that you pay the tax when you register the car in NY.
Let me know as these guys were very honest and a gem to deal with.
This purchase is cash with no trade in so there are no credit inquiries involved in my multi-dealer visits.
I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence. I
want to buy the Sonata Limited Standard (base) and not the Ultimate Sonata. I have no need for a sun roof so why would this present a problem for me or the dealer-Hyundai does make this car and there is pricing for it.
In a few of your posts you called the base Limited the Unlimited Ultimate. While there is no such animal, if you don't want the Sun roof, your price should be even that much lower. If you can afford it, you should be happy with the Sonata, its that good.
Perhaps they charge more because people make more Money in your area?. I know it costs a lot more to live in your area. And an all cash deal is great, but not for Car Dealers. Usually they get a piece of the financing, especially when they divert you to one of their preferred lenders (where allowed by Law). Of course this wasn't the case with your anticipated purchase. I wish you the best in your quest for the Sonata. I would be so mad now, that I would probably buy a different Make, but always have regrets.
Since you have nothing but good words to say about the dealer it would help people in this forum, to consider this dealer if they plan to buy a car in PA.
Thanks
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited Standard (base model)
I've said this before, a different make solves nothing. It's the same dealers who sell multi-brands of cars so you would be dealing with the same management.
Remember, selling cars in America is a unique experience. It's the only product you buy with a special set of rules created by the industry to manipulate the deal.
I just bought an HDTV LCD. Called 3 discount dealers in the NYC area, chose the one with the lowest price and viola, it was delivered the next day.
Ha...buying a car is not that simple, deliberately so, how else can the auto buying public be fleeced. It's a conspiracy. I'm amazed how quickly the Japanese and Koreans learned the way of marketing American Style. I'm curious if cars are marketed the same way in their respective countries.
I bought my first new car in 1952 and 54 years later it's the same game-nothing changed other than we have access to more data but so do the dealers. The status quo-chalk one up for the dealers, it's still their game and they still control THE DEAL.
I have spent weeks on these forums and I still don't know who got the best deal or what the best price is. Maybe there is no such thing as a best deal. I realize that ego's are involved and for every supposedly good deal, how many of our forum readers have been ripped off in spite of all this new found knowledge. And once abused, difficult to admit.
I've been around the block a few times and I'm convinced that buying a car is a colossal scam. Doesn't it strike you as odd that dealer cost is so readily available and it's jammed down your throat as the "holy bible" to buying a car.
Name one other product where the dealer cost is published...name one. When is the last time you bought a major appliance and the salesman whipped out the dealer cost sheet. But buy a car and they plaster you with this number.
Kind of makes you wonder, just how smart are we that as consumers, we have allowed ourselves to be so manipulated.
Long live the automobile dealer-he truly represents the American Dream...FLEECE AND BE FLEECED!
Sal Liggieri
Bingo!
Someone else can always get a better deal than you got due to different circumstances based on timing, location etc. So my advice is, stop trying to get the best deal ever on a Sonata and work to get the best deal possible for you, right now, in your area, for the car you want, with the rebates that are available to you. Then be happy you got a great deal, if not the best-ever deal, and enjoy your new Sonata.
I got a quote of $18765 from Pugi near Chicago (mentioned on the forum). You won't know what the real deal is until they write up the order. But assuming that is the price you can buy for. You have to add in the time and cost of getting there and the time and cost of driving back-a distance of about 1000 miles. Even if you saved $800-1000 which I doubt, is it worth it? I don't think so. Will a dealer in NYC match this price? They would tell you to go to Chicago and buy the car and maybe wish you a safe trip.
Sal Liggieri