Fuel and Oil Additives

mrdetailer · September 2001

I've had the Jiffy Lube Treatment done on several cars. It puts an additive in the oil, runs a cleaner through the intake manifold, and puts a strong fuel injector cleaner in the tank. There should be nothing done that should have affected the regular engine coolant.

You might want to take it to a radiator specialist shop. They have a way to clean the inside of the radiator and engine.

mrdetailer · September 2001

The expensive treatment really seems to have done the trick. The Intermittent rough running, and dying have stopped. I can even pass other cars again. The engine has a lot more power. The mechanic recommends doing this every 30 -- 50 thousand miles, depending on the driving conditions.

almagg · September 2001

I had my fuel injectors 3-step cleaned at Jiffy Lube a few days ago.
Yesterday I noticed that the coolant is now diiirty. When I bought the car a few weeks ago the liquid was clean and clear. Did they do something not right?

mrdetailer · September 2001

the 3 step method puts one bottle into the oil pan then oil is added, the second feeds a solution through the air intake valve and the third is added to the tank. Nothing should have touched coolant.

I've used this process about 3 times, and liked its performance.

Take it to a Radiator specialist.

celianeron · September 2001

Do cleaners do enough to result in a clean looking tail pipe? My 89 Chevy Corsica only sees town miles, some 84K. With some cleaners and Chevron gas,it has a clean,no carbon, tail pipe. While, my 99 Ford E150 Van with 15K highway miles has a nasty black rimmed exhaust pipe. The Ford service manager says not to be concerned as no trouble light is activated. Anyway, I'm not running cleaners in the dirty Ford. This V6 seems to run rich. I look at others Ford vans for the telltale carbon. Is it time for gas cleaners?
Ron

trifivenomad · September 2001

swinga7 · January 2002

does anyone use fuel additives like injector cleaners and engine treatments? and do they really do anything?

stever · January 2002

Good question. I'm pretty skeptical with this stuff, but I do use Chevron gas with Techroline often.

Here's a link Does it matter which brand of gas I use? that sort of addresses your question.

And here's an article about modern fuel injectors.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

swinga7 · January 2002

does anyone know of anyone whose actually done tests with any of these products? like a consumer reports or something like that.

I use stp complete fuel system treatment every time I change my oil. (thats whats suggested on the bottle) and it feels like my car idles smoother but it just might be that I want to think that its idling smoother. anyone have any comments on this?

8u6hfd · January 2002

Once a year. Nothing beats it.

yzf · January 2002

Chevron's Techron additive (found in most auto stores and big retailers with auto sections like Target) is the only stuff I've found that really works - at least on my motorcycles. I've definitely noted increased fuel economy and smoother function. Things like that are very noticable in motorcycles because of the proximity of rider to engine. That and the fact that I tend to do all the maintenance on my bikes whereas the shops get the cars.

jmsintx · January 2002

BMW did studies way back when I was still young and hands down the Techron removed carbon from valves, pistons and opened up fuel injectors. Now, this was 10 years ago and there might be some that work just as well. I have used Techron since I can remember and have cured many a starting-rough idling problem.

ywilson · January 2002

I drove across country in a SAAB 900 I used to own. I used nothing but Chevron gas during the whole trip. When I got to Oregon the car was running better than it was when I left. I was familiar with the Techron in the fuel and I was convinced of it's abilities after my trip. I now use it in my trucks twice a year to keep the fuel system clean. I have no complaints on it's ability to do the job.

armtdm · January 2002

I use Techron once in a while and on three cars I put the concentrate Amsoil PI in every tank. Does it work?

Who knows,

Never had an issue with fuel sytems on any car in last 6-8 years but would I have had any anyway?

kirbstoy · February 2002

I've tried many of the cleaners available. A couple of weeks ago I tried a bottle of Texaco's synthetic cleaner. It seemed to have worked very well. The engine seems to idle smoother and start quicker. Just a thought...

s76drvr · February 2002

I've used Marvel Mystery Oil for years and have been very happy with the results. I do agree that Chevron's Techron additive is also good.

swinga7 · April 2002

regfootball · April 2002

whenever my old 95 tbird used to start to idle sloppy and hard and suck a bit more fuel, and run tough......one tank with concentrated additive and a long drive did the trick. Sometimes a second treatment was necessary. But then after that the rough idle was gone and the mpg was back up where it should be.

Never any related reliability issues etc.

I highly recommend a treatment 2 times a year.....

gregoryc1 · February 2004

Another reason to run an upper cylinder lubricant / cleaner in the fuel on a regular basis. Fuel system components (carbs, fuel injectors and pumps), need lubrication along with the valve guides and rings. In addition, the tips of the fuel injectors need to be kept clean. Any "baked on deposits" will alter the spray pattern on the injector. The fuel today is "dry" in terms of a lubricant. As I have stated on earlier postings, I use "Marvel Mystery Oil" (4 ounces to each 10 gallons of fuel) on a regular basis. I use this product because it is "reasonable in price", ($3.00 a quart K-Mart / $4.00 a quart in Pep-Boys), in my area of the country, and it does the job. I have used this product in all my Honda vehicles, (1997 Accord, 2000 Accord, 2000 Civic, 2003 Accord & 2004 Civic), and I have never had a fuel injector / fuel related / valve problem. YES, it is safe for the 02 sensor and the Cat converter. I also use this product in the fuel my 1999 MerCruiser 7.4 V8 marine engine and my 9 hp snow thrower. I have friends that use this product in the fuel of big oil injected outboard motors. I am not trying to start a debate over this issue, because I know that many people feel that this type of product is not needed, and a waste of money. I am just offering this information as a public service. My Honda dealer will add a fuel additive for the injectors at certain intervals of service. In addition, it is very important to use gas stations that pump "quality fuel", and sell "large quantities" quickly. Never purchase fuel from a station that is getting a fuel delivery. The incoming fuel from the tanker truck is churning up the tank in the station. You could be getting all kinds of contaminents in your vehicle's tank. -----Just my opinion. ----Greg

nw1997 · February 2004

Greg,

Great post. I totally agree with you in regards to using a quality grade gas. I mostly purchase from name brand stations, such as Mobil, Shell, etc. I also agree with you on not getting gas from a station that just got a delivery of gas. Now, getting back to Marvel Mystery oil. I have used that on our previous 89 Chrysler and after about 1.5 years I had to change the throttle body/injector and the O2 sensor. Not smashing on the Marvel Mystery oil, it may have been a fluke. From what I have read about the Mystery Oil is that it is great for vehicles with carbeurators, moving linkages, etc. However when we did receive our vehicle the dealership warned us not to use any additives in the fuel, cause it could damage the injectors. What they did recommend was to use a couple of tanks full of a high octane, high detergent gas to clean the system out. Next, I have read many posts about the rotten smell/odor, sulfur burn. It had not happen to us until I went from 89 octane to 87. I used 89 for about 4 tank fulls and wanted to see the difference with the 87 octane. Well I know now, my wife was in the car and it can make a person feel to throw-up. Well, thats my two cents.

imidazol97 · February 2004

The additives in all gasolines are supposed to be the same. If anyone has a statement from a major brand that they have a different, more effective additive package in their 91 92 93 octane I'd like to know.

A discussion on a knowledgeable car talk program said the premium fuel burns cooler in a car designed for regular, and leaves more residue than the regular fuel. In a car designed (compression-wise?) for premium it burns hotter and doesn't leave the carbon. They mentioned the temperatures involved.

The sulphur difference between regular and midgrade might exist. But I understand the sulphur smell is mostly from low throttle driving for a time and a buildup in the converter of the molecules; then with harder acceleration the converter is cleaned out. Therefore the smell occurs more when you start driving aggressively.

Was there a different in driving patterns when you had midgrade vs regular?

nw1997 · February 2004

imidazol97,

Actually, the car is still in the break in period. We got about 1000 miles on it, to me my break in period will be around 5000 miles. Then will I punch the vehicle and drive aggressive on occasions. I drove the vehicle the same way I did with the 89 octane, smooth acceleration, avg 55 - 65 MPH, nothing change. The Sulfur smell never happened until I put a tank full of Mobil 87 octane a couple of weeks ago. I will not do that again, I will use 89 or higher octane from now on. Many companies are stating that the vehicle runs OK with 87, but to me I believe its a marketing scam for people to buy the vehicles in these high priced gas wars. For example, my dad's CRV say's 86 or higher octane recommended. When we used the 87 we got about 200-250 miles out of a tank. When we went with the Mobil 93 Octane we were getting 300-330 miles out of a tank. Same driving conditions. How could one explain that.

gregoryc1 · February 2004

Just a point of information. Fuel injectors do have moving parts that need to be lubricated. I am not trying to sell anyone on the use of this product. But rather, I am just sharing some basic information with some "GREAT People" on this board. Four ounces of MM oil to each 10 gallons of fuel would not even be noticed. (Picture pouring four ounces of orange juice into 10 gallons of water. You would not see the orange juice in the water).---Greg

nw1997 · February 2004

Greg,

Doesn't the high detergent gasolines have there own additives that would lubricate the injectors., keep them cleaned, etc? From the dealership's opinion this would make sense. What does Honda state about adding additives to the fuel system? The only feed back I got was the use of dry gas, to remove moisture from the tank. This was the only additive I was told that could be used when needed.

gregoryc1 · February 2004

If you truly feel that way about the components of the fuel injection system, then by all means DO NOT use anything in the fuel of your vehicle. Fuel injectors are worth about $100.00 each. So if they malfunction, I will either have to have them cleaned,(if that is possible), or have them replaced. Either way that is an expensive / time consuming process. Now a quart of fuel additive (32 ounces) costs $3.00 to $4.00 dollars. At 4 ounces to 10 gallons of fuel, I can treat 80 gallons of fuel. Assuming the higher price of $4.00 dollars, the cost of this preventive maintenance per 10 gallons is 0.125 per ounce X 4 = 0.5. That is truly cheap preventive maintenance. At 4 ounces to each 10 gallons, you would not even see the product in the fuel. Anything moving needs lubrication. In the fuel system you have the electric fuel pump, the injectors, the intake and exhaust valves & valve guides and the piston rings in their grooves. No one is forcing anyone to use this product, and I am sure if you do some investigation you will find people who agree wil you and with me about this concept. So I guess it is a personal thing. In any case, I am just sharing some information from my experience and point of view. I have used this product in marine and land based engines for years, and I have never had valve or fuel related component problems. Now this might just be "luck" or it might be that products such as this really do something in the fuel. I guess the only way you will know is if you try it! ----Have a nice day. -----Greg

imidazol97 · February 2004

Greg. Since you seem to enjoy having a dialogue about this topic, I'll take an analytical tact.

In 120000 miles of typical driving I calculate about $272 spent on this fuel additive at the higher price you supplied.

If I'm driving a quality built engine, the injectors probably wouldn't show wear until 50% longer than the mileage I used (180000). If the gasolines are quality products with proper additives after the BMW influence in the late 80s, they have additives to stop the olefin formation during heat soak when the engine is turned off that clogged the injectors.

Most people are going to have traded their vehicle after 100K. The additive may work. The additive may not help avoid a problem that wouldn't happen anyhow.

gregoryc1 · February 2004

I enjoy having a discussion about this topic, because I see a lot of damage on marine engines because of the quality of the fuel today. A marine engine shows the wear faster, because it is always working very hard to keep the boat "on plane". (It is always going "up hill" and never is in a "cruising mode of operation"). For every 100 hours on a marine engine, that is equal to 10,000 miles on a land based engine. Marine inboard and I/O engines are suffering from valve and valve guide problems,(carbon build up), and the outboards are suffering from seized piston rings on pistons,--- both due to carbon problems related to the fuel,(not the lubricating oil). In terms of replacing fuel injectors on Honda vehicles, I would guess that the dealer does not see this service because either the customer is doing his / her own work, or they are taking this servce to a local repair shop, or a speciality shop. There are many fuel additives on the market today. If you look at a "trucker's web site" you will see that fuel additives are a major part of the trucking preventive maintenance industry. They must be using these products for a reason? ----Greg

imidazol97 · February 2004

"...injectors wear out over time, (lack of lubrication in the fuel)."

Can someone cite a Honda repair or Book of Honda saying injectors just plain wear and need to be replaced?
Can someone cite a Honda repair or Book of Honda saying injects need additional lubrication that the liquid fuels don't supply today?

"...small quantities of gum are present in gasoline..."

Can someone document for me that these are present in the normal, fresh high volume gasoline supplied from major brands? I'd really like to see the list of "gums."
Additives in gasoline handle the breakdown of the hydrocarbons left at the tip at shutoff in some vehicles. The decomposition of the moleculars leads to deposites at the tips. This was a problem in the 80s with BMW's injectors. And was fixed after BMW listed gasolines by brand that contained the necessary 'detergents.'

Today, not needed. Name brands, high volume, unleaded regular if that's what your engine was designed for.

gregoryc1 · February 2004

No manufacturer will admit to the need for an additive in the fuel. That would destroy their sales. Remember, once the vehicle passes 3 years or 36,000 miles, the entire responsibility of maintenance is in the hands of the owner of the vehicle. If a fuel additive is not important, then why are marinas in the New York / New Jersey area selling a fuel for both gasoline and diesel boats call "ValveTech"? This fuel contains an upper cylinder fuel lubricant. The fuel is being used in outboards, (2 & 4 cycle engines), inboard engines,(4 cycle), I/O engines, (4 cycle) and they have a diesel formula.----Greg

imidazol97 · February 2004

The thesis that auto manufacturers build to last only through warranty is contraindicated by Hyundae then. Since their warranty is 5 and 100k, they obviously would recommend additives for their engines. Anyone know that they do?

The thesis that a Honda is built to last only through 3/36 warranty goes against most people's opinion here that Honda is an engine company and build the best engines in the world. They would cut corners on their injectors so their engines aren't long enduring? Response?

Marine use has no relationship unless you plan to drive your car through high water a lot. Here in Ohio I try not to do that, so marine useages don't appeal to me. I hate being on a bridge over water, like the one at Washington's Crossing last summer over the Delaware!!! I always worry the bridge will fall.

inkie · February 2004

A CAS number is a unique number which relates to a chemical substance. They identify that specific chemical for reference and are copyrighted by the American Chemical Society. This society publishes many pages of CAS numbers which are used to identify chemicals in many industries.

Sorry everyone, I did not mean to start this MSO B.S. over again. I only showed the MSDS data to reveal the contents of MSO. This sheet was supplied by Marvel Oil Co.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2004

Someone asked if fuel injectors wear out? Yes, they do, like any device, they age from use.

swschrad · February 2004

I think wood alcohol (methyl or methanol) is one that raised some hob with GM injectors in the late 80s or early 90s. dissolved the enamel off the injector coil windings, and they shorted out and died. back then injectors were new, and over $200 each. the wire is better enamelled now

other than that... there is a federal standard for gasoline additive cleaners that must be added to fuel, and all brands sold will meet this minimum standard. there are something like a half-dozen commercial additives. this resulted from the old "BMW test" in which 4-bangers were run for 50,000 miles on a test bench... and the engines disassembled and all parts scoped and weighed, to determine the amount of gunk collecting and the wear. you had to use a BMW-approved gasoline to keep your warranty in those parlous times. that's when Techron got its gold star.

there should be enough cleaner in gas to handle the old BMW test as it comes from the nozzle.

if you gunk up the injectors, the on-car decarbonization kit method is preferred by all the tech writers I see in this neck of the woods. Two systems, 3M and Wynns, are generally mentioned.. in both, you pull the fuel pump fuse, connect the pressurized can of magic-gas with a measured but hellish amount of industrial-strength cleaner, and start the engine. when it runs out of gas and dies, you should be good to go if it was varnish/dirt deposits from aging and decomposing fuel gooping the inside of the fuel system. the cans of magic gas are supposedly in the $40-50 range, and the initial injector kit in the $100 range. these decarbonizers are supposedly OK by all major manufacturers for serious performance issues.

I would expect 'em to seriously stink up the shop and set asthmatics in the cloud outside the door wheezing. maybe not as bad as the cummins garage looked one night a year ago when I drove by as they were cleaning out a truck diesel... thought they had a fire, and hopped a couple curbs to get close and see if I should call the red-hats... and then I noticed, in the billowing clouds, pure hell coming out of the stacks on that truck's exhaust. I thought using the pour-and-stall method of cleaning the valves on older cars with liquid carb cleaner was a choker... this was pure evil. the 3M or Wynns systems should be someplace in between, from what I read, in attracting clean-air picketers.

I would be a little leery of doing this every 15,000 miles "because I can", due to the strength of the chemicals.

shipo · February 2004

Hey gang, we've been having a healthy row over in the Synthetic Oil topic regarding "Fuel and Oil Additives", and while it was a good discussion while it lasted, it seems that this is a better forum.

I have been following the additive argument for over thirty years now, and IMHO, due to all of the evidence supporting additives, which are anecdotal at best, the complete lack of readily available scientific evidence supporting additives, and my own personal research, additives like MMO and even Techron from a bottle for that matter are the same thing as Snake Oil.

Does anyone have any scientific information to suggest otherwise?

Best Regards,
Shipo

swschrad · February 2004

well, I always liked Cobra oil treatment and Diamondback fuel cleaner.....

oh....

those are snakes, aren't they?.......

shipo · February 2004

I just received a rather angry sounding E-Mail (I assume from someone who read this thread) calling yours truly a "Troll" because I dared to suggest that Tecron was Snake Oil. I think that I need to set the record straight.

I never said that Tecron was Snake Oil, I did however say that Tecron from a bottle was Snake Oil. So, what's the difference? To me at least, the difference it enormous. Chevron fuels with Tecron as an integral component of the fuel is designed by petroleum engineers to meet the standards set forth by the World-Wide Fuel Charter (WWFC). Said standards were developed by representatives from automobile manufacturers America, Europe and Japan, and their purpose is to assure consistent fuel quality standards around the globe.

All major motor vehicle manufacturers including those from Canada, Korea, China, and South Africa, support the Charter and agreed to its adoption as a means to achieve the following goals:

1) Reduce the impact of motor vehicles on the environment immediately through reduced vehicle fleet emissions;
2) Consistently satisfy customer performance expectations; and
3) Minimize vehicle equipment complexities with optimized fuels for each emission control category, which will reduce customer costs and facilitate the development of fuel efficient technologies.

Another way of looking at this is that, assuming all of the major petroleum producers selling gasoline in the Unites States adhere to the charter, adding anything to their specific formulations (ie. Tecron or MMO or anything else for that matter) is almost guaranteed to generate results other than the desired result, even if it's simply to thin out your wallet.

In summary, I maintain that the Tecron that is native to Chevron fuel is good. I also maintain that Tecron, MMO, KEM-O-PRO, AMSOIL P.I., STP, Fuelon, Gunk or any others of that ilk, added to gasoline that already adheres to the WWFC, is snake oil.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chispas · February 2004

You may want to step back, reflect again about
your statement, quote, "additives like MMO and even Techron from a bottle for that matter are the same thing as Snake Oil. Does anyone have any scientific information to suggest otherwise?"

1. Techron in a bottle has directions for usage.

2. Do you have any "scientific information"
yourself that could be presented ? Otherwise
you have no support.

shipo · February 2004

Actually I have all of the proof that I need. The manufacturers of two of our cars expressly state that additives should not be used. The third makes no statement at all (contrary to another post that claims that BMW recommends Techron). In fact, I have read many owners manuals over the years and I have NEVER seen a manufacturer recommend any additives.

I absolutely believe that with the collective billions of dollars spent on engine development by the world's auto makers, that if a product like MMO offered some benefit as either an oil or a gas additive that they would ALL recommend it. So far, after thirty years of looking, I have yet to see a single manufacturer even hint that any additives (other than say for cold weather diesel operations) could be helpful.

Just because some folks want to believe that adding stuff to their oil and gas is going to make their engine run better, longer and with less maintenance, and just because they claim that these things have come to pass because of the use of their favorite oil of snake, that doesnt make it so.

So far all I have heard on the "Pro" side is anecdotal evidence and marketing hype. On the "Con" side however, is the vehicle manufacturers with their billions of dollars of research saying in essence, "don't use additives."

I choose to believe the manufacturers.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chispas · February 2004

The publication, CONSUMERS RESEARCH BULLETIN went
out of business prior to the advent of the Internet.

I have only found reference to their volumes that
are stored in places like university libraries.
None of the texts seem to have made it to the WWW.

Anyway, they were the only commonly read research
that I can recall that actually did laboratory
tests on automotive products like motor oils and
additives.

For motor oils they would test the different
brands for adherence to SAE specifications, pour
point, ash deposits, anti-oxidation, and such
things. Then they would list the brands as
"Recommended", "Acceptable", and "Not Recommended".

I remember that Montgomery Wards' oils always
were not recommended.

When they occasionally tested motor oil additives
it was to see if they could find any kind of
benefits, or not. Then they gave their honest
opinion.

As I remember, there was only one occasion when
they were unable to find any kind of benefit.
This was a product called "Casite". They had
determined that it was "greenhouse drip", a
waste product from kerosine and diesel fuel
refining. I think Casite was marketed by a
company called "Hastings". Anyway, "Casite"
soon disappeared.

Even though it has been many years since the
"days of CONSUMERS RESEARCH BULLETIN", I still
maintain the attitude of being open minded,
not skeptical of every last one of the additives.

The ones that are popular appear to be beneficial
otherwise they would probably disappear like
happened to "Casite".

shipo · February 2004

Hmmm, well, that stuff is ancient history. Even then, I still get the distinct impression that the manufacturers themselves did NOT recommend any of the products.

Nuff said.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · February 2004

Fuel stabilizers for engines that aren't used on a regular basis make sense. My Generac generator even came with a packet of the stuff right from Generac. That said, it is my understanding that the automobile manufacturers work with the oil companies to make sure that any and all additives that are required for their engines are already in the fuel and oil before you put it in your car. That's what the WWFC is all about. That's what the various oil standards are all about.

If a vehicle manufacturer found that a certain product would produce superior results in their engines, say a fuel additive that smoothed engine idle, improved fuel economy and power, and produced less pollution, I'm sure that they would find a way to either promote it or put their own label on it and sell it to their customers. Things like BMW Synthetic (from Castrol, not the same Castrol we buy here in the US) come to mind. Then, right there in the Owner's Manual they can say, "Use high quality Packard fuel injection cleaner to keep your car as efficient and trouble free as the day it was new."

In fact, I just checked the Owner's Manual for my car and here is what it says:

Specified engine oils
The quality of the engine oil selected has critical significance for the operation and service life of an engine. Based on extensive testing, BMW has approved only certain engine oils.

Use only approved "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil."

If you are unable to obtain "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil," you can add small amounts of synthetic oil in between oil changes. Only use oils with the API SH specification or higher.

Ask your BMW center for details concerning the specific "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil" or "synthetic oils" which have been approved.

Do I still think that additives for cars is Snake Oil? Yup. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

chispas · February 2004

But, you and I have been talking to someone who
truly believes an additive must be recommended
by the car manufacturer ( like in the owner's
manual ) or it's ALREADY in the oil and gasoline.

It's like talking to a "brick wall".

Over and out....

shipo · February 2004

So, gas ain't gas. Fair enough. That said, I believe that gasoline purchased from any of the majors, Amoco, Exxon, Sunoco, Mobil, Chevron is essentially the same. I'm not even remotely suggesting that they are the same formulation; instead, I'm suggesting that they all meet the minimum spec of the WWFC. That being the case, no additives are necessary.

If a person is driving a nice car and fills up at Arm & Pit's Service Station, then I wouldn't bet a plug nickel regarding the quality of the fuel. So then an additive package might be needed. But what package? I'm surely not a petroleum engineer, and I'm sure as hell not going to ask my Father-in-Law, who could probably give me chapter and verse on what chemicals and how much to add. Again, it's probably better to skip adding anything and fill up at a name brand station the next time around.

Regarding BMW oil. It is made by Castrol to BMW's specification. If pressed, BMW will also tell you that one or two oils from Mobil (Mobil-1 0w-40 for instance) are also acceptable and meet or exceed the same rigid specification. Again, use the correct oil and no additives are needed. Don't use the correct oil and what do you add? As a preacher I once knew used to say, "Only the good Lord knows, and he ain't talkin'." ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · February 2004

When you said, "Tornado", do you mean the "TornadoFuelSaver/CycloneFuelSaver " from Scam-O-Rama, Inc., the company started by the Scam Brothers? ;-)

Yeah, I understand. The marketing certainly makes you itch to buy it, but then your rational side steps in and says, "What are you thinking?" ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

armtdm · February 2004

I also concur that almost everthing over the counter is snake oil. Up until a year ago I used only one additive, the Amsoil PI fuel additive. Now, does it work, really don't know. Never had an injector or fuel related issue in over 7 engines I have used it in, highest mileage is at 163,000 now. Would I have had a problem if not used, probably not.

Today, I also use the "Schaeffer oil" fuel additve Neutra, works great especially in small lawn equip and autos also.

Also use the Lubeguard red ATF additive when I change my ATF (use synthetic) No difference noted.

Also use a product by Schaeffers called #132 a EP Moly additive with 3 to 1 mix of a product called LubeControl(mail order only). (8 ounces total added at oil change) Does it work, well, on three engines so far I have had the lowest ever wear numbers on the used oil analysis from the lab, solids/soot down numbers better overall. I can't complain.

Finally, I have used the Auto RX. the first time, before the instructions were revised to go 1500 in the clean cycle and 2000 rinse with dino I stated that it did not work (500 mile clean cycle only back then) Now, yes, it does work as a great gradual engine cleaner and yes, in certain circumstances will stop/reduce seepage from seals. A ton of people have used this with great results in lieu of the harsh solvent cleaners that you run for 15 min at idle.

As you have probably guessed, all of these products were first used by members of the BITOG web site and results made known and after much soul searching I started to try a few. As noted, (except for Lubeguard where I see no diff in performance and maybe the PI also) the others have given me better results especially in the used oil analysis.

I won't recommend them as most people will say they are also snake oil, and one must go with whatever floats your boat so that you can sleep at night.

For me I am going to continue with the above; that is RX once every few years, the EP Moly and Lube Control at every oil change (use Amsoil synthetic) and the PI and Neutra. Actually going to try the Schaeffers oil in one car even though I have used nothing but Amsoil for 10 years the Schaeffers results seem excellent as a blend with lower cost.

so my two cents!

chispas · February 2004

Was a retired mechanic in Dallas....

He was a very brilliant person and held patents
for several automobile specialty tools....

His name was Clarence Allen, we called him "Bugs"....

He was helping me one day with repairs to a
restored 1940 Indian Four motorcycle....

He began to recall and relate some of the good
and bad things that he remembered when he used
to ride this type of machine when he was a young man...

One thing that he mentioned was all the older
motorcycles suffered because of the poor quality
of motor oil that was available in the "early
days"....

To help correct this problem he described how he
had added Oxydol powdered soap to motor oil....

He said it worked great....

This has got to be the most unusual motor oil
"additive" that I've ever heard of !!

swschrad · February 2004

he was making a detergent oil to suspend scuz particles and get some combustion products off the cylinder walls so they would drain. detergent oil is about all you can find now, unless you have contacts in aviation maintenance.

not only that, he got his cranks "whiter than white" with color-safe oxygen bleach crystals!

does YOUR oil have color-safe oxygen bleach crystals???

chispas · February 2004

You mentioned whiter-than-white crankshafts because of detergent oil....

"Bugs" was AMAZED that I'm running a chromed crankshaft on hard aluminum inserts for rod and
main bearings....

He asked, "Who did that for you ?"

I told him it was Paul Murray in Temperance, MI.

"Bugs" said, "You'll NEVER wear out that crank !"

That was 30 years ago. It still runs sweet.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2004

My view of additives is pretty straightforward.

They are PREVENTATIVE. They don't "cure" much of anything. All these claims about "freeing" sticky this and "reducing" that are about as valid as claims for herbal remedies. Yes, every now and then the patient "seems" to get better but you really don't know why.

If an engine is worn out it's worn out and no "Mystery Oil" is going to do anything about that.

chispas · February 2004

O.K.....

You want to make soapsuds out of things like I
write....

BUBBLE....BUBBLE....

GONE !!!!!

Fuel and Oil Additives

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