Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

varmit · September 2001

I'm a CR-V owner, but I've been following the rumors surrounding the upcoming Saturn VUE with interest. Since it's introduction, the press has been reporting that the VUE was designed with the CR-V in mind. A recent article mentions that Saturn even purchased about a dozen CR-Vs to use as test mules for the Saturn CVT. The Saturn brings to market a decent price, a V6, CVT, dent resistent doors, and a host of other engineering doo-dads to help compete with the former sales king.

The problem is, Saturn targeted the current model. A new CR-V will be in dealerships at about the same time if not sooner. Did Saturn improve on the design enough to compete with the new CR-V, or are they chasing yesterday's standards?

varmit · September 2001

For those seeking info:

02 CR-V first drive from Edmunds.
CR-V press kit.
VUE news.
VUE press kit.

artdecho · September 2001

hi varmit.....i'll definitely be checking out both vehicles, along with the santa fe (my wife's current fave, although i have reservations about long term durability and gas mileage). you already know i prefer the saturn's liftgate over the cr-v's awkward rear-door/spare tire combo. styling-wise, i also like the "less-cladding" look of the saturn (though the up-level part-painted bumpers on the top-of-the-line cr-v (&jdm)
look ok too). i expect the new cr-v may be quieter and more refined, and the new 2.4l four should be almost the equal of the vue's v6. the new cr-v also seems to have the edge in interior room. although the vue's 4 cyl/CVT combo could possibly get the best fuel economy in the class, i'm a little reluctant to be a guinea pig for GM's product development, as they seem to do most of their r&d after a vehicle comes out (and when they finally get it right after 5-6 years, they kill the vehicle). the SW300 with V6 gets about 24/34 city/hwy mpg (canadian gals.), so the vue may get close to this as it will have a five-speed auto. The cr-v reportedly will get 26/33.
Anyway, some interesting choices down the road
(along with the matrix & vibe on a slightly smaller scale). Can't wait to see & drive all of them.

dindak · September 2001

VUE looks very good to me. I think the Escape/Tribute, CR-V and VUE will be the top choices in the small SUV arena. Santa Fe looks kind of fat and bulgey (not very attractive) and I would never buy a Hyundia. Too many memories of Pony's rusting out and not starting after 5 years.

artdecho · September 2001

btw, i meant to say saturn LW300 (large wagon) when i was referring to gas mileage.
in regards to price, hopefully the vue will be competitive.....cr-v's run from mid 26's to mid 29's(se with leather)(2001) & hopefully that won't change alot with the 2002's. The saturn LW wagons run from just over 25k (4cyl/5spd)to 29k (6cyl/5spd). if the vue is any more than that, i feel it won't be competitive (i hope it will be somewhat less, at least at the top end, say 28-29k with 6cyl/auto and awd). (these are canadian$ prices, btw)

varmit · September 2001

Artdecho - I agree that the CR-V's 2.4 will probably run with the V-6 VUE in terms of acceleration. The CR-V has a weight advantage and it looks like it is still geared pretty high. The VUE's bigger engine does make a significant difference in towing, though. Not many people who are towing will look at small SUVs, but those that do will most likely pass on the CR-V.

Dindak - I have to agree with you on the looks of the Santa Fe. Hyundai went for "curvacious", but they ended up with "lumpy". From the side, it doesn't look too bad, but from any angle where you can see the back or the hood, it's not pretty.

Pricing for the CR-V and VUE look to be about the same. The CR-V is supposed to run from 19-23 (American $). So far I've seen the VUE estimated at "below 20K" to $23K.

varmit · September 2001

I doubt verymuch that the VUE will get the same mpg as the Saturn wagon. It's heavier, and probably a good deal less aerodynamic. Estimates published in a recent article were somewhere between the high teens and mid twenties. I don't have the source in front of me, but I think they wrote 17 - 24 mpg (US measures again).

Anyone know the emissions ranking of either VUE engine?

dindak · September 2001

Here are the fuel estimates on the VUE.

http://www.saturnfans.com/Saturn_Models/VUE/2002/fueleconomy.html

artdecho · September 2001

they don't look all that great....the 4cyl.awd with cvt is not even as good as the 2002 cr-v and the v6/5spd auto awd is about the same as a santa fe.

varmit · September 2001

I was a bit surprized as well. Looking at the specs, it seems that the AWD system adds a bit of weight. That might explain the difference between the base model and the CVT 4 cylinder. The highway figures for the lowest model aren't bad, but the figures for city driving are not impressive. The V6 looks decent, but I have to wonder if it's going to suffer from the same problem as the Escape (which rarely meets the EPA estimates).

I looked through the press material and I don't see anything about emissions for the VUE. I have to assume that if either engine were an LEV or better, they'd be touting it just like everybody else.

Based on the limited data we have here, I'd have to give the CR-V a better rating for it's engine. Compared with the VUE's ecotec 4, the CR-V has more power, gets similar mpg, and it meets higher emissions standards (LEV II). When compared with the VUE's V6, it loses in the power category, but it gets significantly better mpg and once again meets higher emissions standards.

JM2C

dindak · September 2001

At least for me, 1 or 2 MPG either way just doesn't matter much. I'm much more interested in comfort, space and utility. Honda 4 cyl engine is probably the better of the 2 but the Ecotec is no slouch. I've driven an LS and it's quite smooth.

diploid · September 2001

Who knows how the price of oil will fluctuate within the coming months...

dindak · September 2001

If you are that tight for gas money, you might want to consider an economy car instead of an SUV. Lots of small wagon choices out there also.

varmit · September 2001

Dindak - What type of utility are you looking for? Cargo, towing, off-roading?

dindak · September 2001

Mostly cargo, with good economy as we have a growing family. If we do go with an SUV, it has to be somewhat economical. Our one lease is up in the spring so that's when we will be looking. Base Rendezvous (probably too expensive), Escape, Tribute, VUE and CR-V are all on the list.

canadatwo · September 2001

The 2002 Forester will be an all new design.

Something else to consider if you are looking next year.

canadatwo · September 2001

varmit · September 2001

Given that the 2nd gen CR-V has more cargo capacity than the largest Soob, I don't think that the smaller Forester will be at the top of the list for those with cargo space as a priority.

dindak · September 2001

The big problem I have with Subarus is price. They are very expensive IMO. They seem best suited to those who go off roading and/or will really use the 4WD. I will likely get a 2WD 4cyl VUE/ Escape or CR-V.

varmit · September 2001

Top of the line Soobs are pricey, but they come with quite a few options. When the Forester came out, it earned the unfortunate label of "expensive" because the test mules were fully loaded. But, when you take a mid-level Forester and compare it to the EX CR-V, they come out pretty much the same in price and equipment.

Depending on what you want for creature comforts, the CR-V may force you into AWD that you don't want. The EX and SE models have RT4WD as standard equipment. Luckily, the airbags are at least an option on the LX model. I was afraid that they would only be standard equipment on the EX.

ateixeira · September 2001

Kanti: prices vary by region, but in the DC area you can get a Forester L for as little as $18,981 freight included from fitzmall.com, a local no-haggle dealership. They have autos still under $20k.

Keep in mind that even the most basic model comes with AWD, ABS, power package, A/C, cassette, roof rack, fog lights, floor mats, mud guards, etc.

True, if you load one up, the highest priced of the 67 they have in stock costs $24,146, but that includes a huge moonroof, leather, automatic trans, heated seats and mirrors, disc brakes, 16" alloys, side air bags, etc.

So don't overlook them just because they offer a lot of standard equipment.

-juice

dindak · October 2001

Base Forester list here for C$28,395 + freight. With auto which I would want add $1000. That's a lot of money for a small SUV vehicle. I also think it looks too much like a wagon which is why I prefer the Outback which is a wagon. The CR-V / Saturn will list for much less. Given I don't need 4WD and the prices, the Subaru is off the shopping list.

ateixeira · October 2001

Ah, Canada. Supply and demand for Subies is quite different there.

Since you don't need 4WD, be sure to check out the new Saturn's CVT. It sounds interesting, at least.

If wagons are on your list, check out the Protoge5 and the upcoming Matrix. They cost less to boot.

My dad and my cousin have Outbacks, and both are quite happy with them.

-juice

dindak · October 2001

Wow, do you own stock in Subaru?

Problem with the Outback is the same, too expensive. They start at over C$30K which is too much for a compact wagon. Subaru seems to have gone up scale in recent years. They need to have a lower priced entry level model.

ateixeira · October 2001

I wish I had bought some back in 1998, when sales were at 150k. They're now at 180k or so, and yes I've influenced several buyers.

Yeah, they dropped the Brighton models. Canada's line up has been different, though.

They had a Forester Dynastar edition ($400 for a bunch of extra stuff and skis or snow board), which was a good deal, so keep your eyes out for limited editions like that.

Subaru has made ABS standard on every car (at least in the US), as well as the torquey 2.5l engine. So yeah, they are priced accordingly.

What about an Impreza TS? Those offer good value. Legacy L too.

-juice

varmit · October 2001

The Outback is a nice wagon, but from a strictly functional point of view, it's only significant advantage over the '02 CR-V is the option of an H6. Without the 6, the base Outback and CR-V are closer competitors than the new CR-V and the current Forester.

Back on track... I read rumors that the CVT for the Vue will not be available right away. Has this been confirmed? Also, does anyone know the gearing for the 5 speed automatic? If it's geared aggressively, this could turn the Vue into quite a performer.

ateixeira · October 2001

Perhaps in size, but we'll see about payload. The old CR-V did not come close to matching what the Forester could haul, at least in terms of weight. My payload is over 1000 lbs, a figure hard to match.

You always bring up the CR-V's bigger size, but Consumer Reports fit a bigger box in the Forester. Also, Car & Driver fit more cases of beer in the Forester's cargo compartment.

More beer? Forester wins! ;-)

-juice

dindak · October 2001

Another issue with the Forester is simply it's looks. It's a very odd looking vehicle. I'm not sure I could live with it. The VUE, Tribute and CR-V all look better IMO.

Impreza/ Legacy not an options for growing family.

Seriously, do you own Subaru stock??

;-)

varmit · October 2001

Juice - You're a year off. This is an '02 CR-V topic. The new CR-V has 72 cu.ft. of cargo capacity. That's nearly ten more than the current Forester and about 4 or 5 (can't recall) more than the Outback. Honda is claiming that the '02 CR-V can fit two 26" frame mountain bikes in back with the wheels attached. I'd guess that the cargo bay has a more regular shape than the old model.

As for the current CR-V, more space is more space. While I've always considered the Forester's ability to engulf a single large object made it an even comparsion, there's still something to be said for having more cubic footage. Not everything has a regular shape. My backpacks for example.

keninplacitas · October 2001

My goal in going to this site is to gain further insight into Saturn VUE vs Honda CR-V. I can go elsewhere to learn about the Forester (I owned one once - it ain't much). If you folks would like to continue with the Forester discussion on this site (as in the last 14 postings), I'll be happy to share my personal experiences with that machine.

The one big benefit I see to buying the Saturn is that it's an American car made primarily with American built parts and it's manufactured in an American factory. Now I know this, over the recent past, has not been considered much of a compliment, but things do seem to be changing (for instance, the new Jeep Liberty is apparently turning people's attitudes around about American SUV car quality).

Let's hope the VUE helps Saturn maintain their reputation for customer satisfaction. If the VUE comes anywhere near the CR-V in quality and reliability, I'll seriously consider the option of buying one.

ateixeira · October 2001

Really? I find the CR-V kind of plain, the Tribute handsome, and the Vue kind of odd. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

I guess we'll have to have a "cases of beer" rematch. ;-)

Ken: someone mentioned the Forester, so I commented. It's not like anyone here has even driven the two vehicles in the topic, right? Competitors are relevant in every way.

I've seen the Vue in person, and crowd reaction was so-so. I guess they have a certain "look" to the Saturn line, it just doesn't do much for me. The L series was a bomb, though, and the engines come from that line. The platform is all new, so we'll see.

I've driven and like the Liberty. Huge leaps and bounds ahead of the Cherokee. We'll see how they hold up in the long term, though.

You have not had a single post in any Subaru related topic, you sure you own a Forester? Don't tell me you're a troll...

-juice

varmit · October 2001

Keninplacitas brings up a good point. I doubt very much that the average Honda dealer is going to give the customer service that a Saturn retailer would. Honda customer service is indifferent, overall. Saturn pretty much rewrote the rules.

keninplacitas · October 2001

Is a 'troll' someone who interjects say, Subaru stuff into, for instance, a VUE / CR-V discussion site? If so, I guess that's what I did. Tell you what, I won't do it any more if you won't.

Oh yeah, In answer to your last Forester comment, I owned a '98 Forester for a year (~18,000 miles). I got rid of it before it deteriorated any further from its 'new car feel' (squeaks, rattles, differential shuddering, etc). I didn't know about Edmunds.com in those days, thus no postings on the Subaru at that time.

diploid · October 2001

But we're all trolls here at Edmunds. Don't let the word get to you.

dindak · October 2001

Reaction at the Toronto Int'l Auto Show was all good w.r.t. the VUE. Big crowds and hype around it. It was also a top three feature in all the local papers. It's a bit different, but very attractive. The new CR-V is also very attractive. I was never crazy about the old model.

They had a good review of the Ford Escape on Autoweek TV (on Speedvision) last night. They didn't test the 4 cyl though.

ateixeira · October 2001

I was not the first person to bring up Subaru. I was also not the first person to bring up the Liberty.

Saturn will have its work cut out for it. According to CR Subaru ranks #7 among all manufacturers for long-term reliability, ahead of Saturn. Honda is better than Subaru, even. If you were disappointed with your Subie, I doubt a less reliable Saturn would do it for you.

C&D had a Vue preview, which was kind of interesting. 181hp ain't much for a V6, and why no manual tranny with the V6? They estimate 0-60 in 9.5s with city mpg in the teens.

-juice

dindak · October 2001

While I don't mind the Subaru comparisons, it seems clear you agenda is to convince us that Subaru is better than anything else. It may be better for you, but not everyone has the money for one and not everyone has a need for 4WD and lots of extra power.

keninplacitas · October 2001

Is it quite possible that, before buying a car, we guys tend to: First, Research thoroughly ... Second, Select the car we really, really want ... then Third, Put together our foolproof set of justifications as to why our chosen car is, by far, the most logical selection?

In other words, we buy the car that 'turns us on' then we justify it with logic.

The point is, you can beat us to death with your Subaru logic, but if the Subaru doesn't 'turn us on', there's no way on earth you'll get us to even think about buying one.

ateixeira · October 2001

I agree completely. You should never buy a car you aren't in love with. If you don't love it when new, imagine 60 months later when you're still making that last payment.

That doesn't prevent us from discussing the pros and cons of competing models, though. Competition improves the breed. I love checking out what's new so I know what to ask for in the next generation models. If Ford and Jeep didn't up the ante to 200hp+, you think Subaru would be planning on a turbo Forester?

BTW, my other two cars are Mazdas, and I purchased my Miata after the Subie.

Saturn is probably targeting the CR-V and Escape, to be honest. The Liberty is far more truckish, so they're after domestic intenders that would otherwise buy the Escape. They'd be glad to win over a few CR-V buyers, too, but I have a feeling that import buyers won't cross over so readily.

The Santa Fe is another option, and coincidentally its V6 has the same output. Hopefully the Vue will be lighter.

It's getting crowded in this segment.

-juice

dindak · October 2001

"It's getting crowded in this segment" - Ya, cause it's the fastest growing segment in the car biz.

"The Santa Fe is another option" - Nope. Ugly and made by Hyundia are the two big strikes against it. I have too many memories of broken down Pony's to ever consider a Hyundia.

varmit · October 2001

Competition does indeen improve the breed, but in this case we're discussing a specific competition. I think it has been well documented that Saturn was targeting the CR-V when they designed the VUE. They took into account the same things that Mazda/Ford learned the same way and put them into the design. That makes this particular topic a head to head match, so to speak. The current Forester, Liberty, or Santa Fe are not part of the picture.

ateixeira · October 2001

Interesting, I don't think they ever had the Pony model in the USA. I've seen them in Suriname, though. Wasn't that decades ago? The warranty isn't enough to erase bad memories, eh?

No doubt, Saturn designed the Vue with the former sales leader for the class.

Though I disagree about excluding any competitors in this class. CR-V won the JD Power APPEAL study in 2000, and then the Forester took over top honors for 2001. It's short sighted to ignore the small SUV that customers like best.

-juice

varmit · October 2001

Then go ahead and create a new topic.

corynat · October 2001

And here I was getting ready to throw the AMC Eagle Wagon into the mix.

dindak · October 2001

Hyundia is financial straits. I wonder if they will even be around in 5-10 years to honor the warranty. Doesn't matter, that big Santa Fe is UGLY.

ateixeira · October 2001

Wait a second, you were the one that told me about this topic!

)

I just read Bing's review of the new 2002, and I swear it's like Honda raided the Subaru parts bin. Here is a quick list of all the things from the Forester Honda has incorporated:

* antennae
* same cheap carpeting
* same cheap visor, they look identical
* LCD odometer
* 2 trip odos
* roof rails with rain gutters
* sunglass holder
* tether anchors
* power window switch and location
* cruise switch (must be same part #, identical) and location
* gas cap holder
* moonroof option
* 5 spoke steel rims

So I guess the Saturn folks targeted the CR-V, but it looks like the CR-V folks targeted the Forester, even though they'd never admit it.

-juice

varmit · October 2001

Oh brother... Do you really think that Subaru invented all that?

ateixeira · October 2001

No, but I'm pretty sure a Honda engineer spent a little time peeking into a Forester.

Any how, noone besides me seems to be saying anything at all about any vehicles, so there is no point in sticking around.

See you folks on the other, more active boards.

-juice

dindak · October 2001

"Here is a quick list of all the things from the Forester Honda has incorporated:"

I agree. You are pushing this Subaru thing a little too hard. Of course Honda engineers looked at the Subaru, much like it looked at everything else on the market.

"no one besides me seems to be saying anything at all about any vehicles"

All you are talking about is Subarus!

How much Subaru stock do you REALLY own??

dindak · October 2001

They just posted new VUE info on www.saturncanada.com.

It's a lot of fluff, but there are little bits of new stuff also.

varmit · October 2001

Fair review.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/2001-10-05-crv.htm

Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles