Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

dindak · May 2003

bgabel1260 : My old neighbor had a 2000 Accord. Who can you trust? Pretty much anyone these days. The difference between 1st and 10th isn't very big. Considering the $1000s you save on brands other than Toyota and Honda, it's well worth looking at most of the major name brands. Obviously Honda/Toyota have quality (but aren't even close to perfect) and their lead gets smaller every year.

icvci : Honda has had some fairly problematic launches lately, I really wouldn't bet on any new vehicle model. You are also obviously a Honda fan, but some U.S. brands have come light years since your Fiero.

icvci · May 2003

Like my mom's Crap-tera?

My sister-in-laws Focus?

My Neon?

My cousins L-Series?

Nah, I'll still take my chances. I agree, the Fiero was uncommonly bad (Thank goodness for a 62 month unlimited mileage warranty with a one time $25 deductible!) But, my Honda's have been VERY good.

I'd take a Honda flawed launch over a domestic debacle anyday. The worst Honda launch is 100X better than the worst domestic launch.

I really don't want to go there though. I'm tired of defending imports. Buy what you want (Like you wouldn't anyway.) CR, J.D. Power, and Intellichoice can carry their banner. Not me, not here.

vuefor2 · May 2003

The Vue was our first domestic and we have not been disappointed. Perfect for over a year. While I understand your mentality, the car business is not always about brands and more about individual vehicles.

I know if I had a bad experience I would feel the same way. That said, one needs to keep an open mind in life which is why we initially popped into the Saturn dealer and tried a Vue. The $$ savings and better customer service were the deal breakers for us when it came down to CR-V vs Vue. The reliability data I've seen does not back up your comments.

Nothing wrong with Hondas though, we have had 2.

varmint · May 2003

"varmit : Ya, the CR-V is a bit better but in the end it's not a big difference. Buy what you like, they are both good vehicles." - Dindak

Sorry, I wasn't intentionally plugging one vehicle. I was more interested in debunking an earlier comment about the VUE's reliability rating being based on the ratings of other Saturns.

icvci · May 2003

I should get one sometime. I used to be a die hard big3 guy. Little by little things changed. I never believed my friend when he said his Honda Accord and Civic were great. I asked him why he didn't support the local economy.

Then I came across an 86 Civic CRX DX with 32,000 miles. It was garaged and in great condition. My Fiero was (had been) near death with 168,000 miles (again, thank goodness for that warranty). I put 66,000 miles on the CRX before a Porsche 911 rear ended me and totaled it. It was the most pleasant 66,000 miles I had driven since I bought the Fiero. Never saw a dealer. I was sold.

I bought a Neon used from a family member. It looked like a good car. I'll leave it at that.

So back to Honda it was for me.

Anyway, I think the VUE looks neat, I'm just a little gun-shy when it comes to domestics. I did look at the Vibe when purchasing my Protege5 and would have bought one. But, there isn't a 5 speed to be found in Michigan.

Drove to work behind a VUE today, plate read 4VUE2NV. (Insert sarcastic remark here.)

dindak · May 2003

varmit : I know.

icvci : Funny thing is my parents bought us an 84 Fiero when we were in high school. It was a fun car but the 4 speed manual had issues. Not too bad considering the time period. I went with a Civic in university as American cars a bit shaky but we have now had 3 GMs in a row now and none of them have been any trouble. I'm not saying GM doesn't make any bad cars / trucks any more, but I am saying they have all of ours been pretty much pain free. Our latest an 02 Alero has been perfect for it's first year. While I would look at Honda again, with the incentives offered by other makers like Nissan, GM and a couple of others, I have trouble understanding the premium one has to pay to get a Honda sometimes.

icvci · May 2003

True, used Honda vehicles carry a premium.

I'm not sure that holds true for new ones though. I wouldn't have wanted anything more on our CR-V than what came standard and, it's a competitivly priced. Even at MSRP, I think they are a pretty good value.

varmint · May 2003

If "premium" means additional cost over the MSRP, then, yes, I would agree. That is the result of supply and demand. In some cases Honda has not been able to keep up with demand. However, many Honda models have MSRPs that are in line with the real world/discounted prices of the competition.

Which would you rather pay? An MSRP that is a fair price for the vehicle, or a $2K discount off a vehicle that was MSRP priced $2K higher than it should have been. I see quite a few posts from people who refuse to pay MSRP based on principle and completely ignore the fact that competition is the same price even after the discounts.

icvci · May 2003

I agree varmint, I think Honda MSRPs are set at a realistic level. Comparing trim levels on competeing vehicles usually proves this point.

dindak · May 2003

Well since Saturn is a 1 price shop, everyone pays MSRP. Of course I'm talking general terms not neccesarily CR-V. Actually I think CR-V is pretty reasonable but I find the Accord and the Civic pricey compared to other makes of sedans, at least up here they are. Not only that, but most makes offer 0% and cash back where Honda is at about 5-7% for their financing. Honda has stronger sales so they haven't needed to discount much yet. I generally look for value (bang for the buck) when I buy and I see a lot of value in American cars right now. Korean cars have also come a long long way and once I get past some of the Hyundai nightmares I've seen in the past I may just take a look.

vuefor2 · May 2003

We thought the CR-V prices were fair, but the Vue had better financing, better customer service and the V6 seemed a little more peppy. The dent resistant panels were also a selling point as we live near a lot of kids playing on the street. We also didn't care for the rear swing door on the CR-V.

I think we would have been happy with either. It was a matter of making a decision based on the info at the time. The competitive variables change all the time and if we looked at the vehicles today our choice may have been different. All I know for sure is that we love our Vue.

icvci · May 2003

Dent resistant panels are nice. One of the few nice things about my old Fiero. Never a dent. No rust. Definitely nice. That's why I opted for the cladding on our CR-V. I'll park in the back of mall lots but, I hate to make the wife do that while lugging our child around. For both safety and convenience reasons. Cladding, ugly as it is, is for the most part, jerk proof.

Just curious, what were the incentives at the time you purchased?

vuefor2 · May 2003

I believe we are paying 1.9% vs the approx 5.4% Honda wanted. I'd have to check. I remember a few months later they offered 0% on the Vue but we missed out on that. We have since bought an Ion sedan which we got 0% for 60 months.

dindak · May 2003

Saturn still has no 0% offers here. 2.9% for 48 on the VUE last time I checked. Mazda and Ford both offer 0% on the Tribute and Escape. I guess the VUE is selling well though, I see them everywhere these days.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

The way to "bust" the no-dealing stance of Saturn is via a trade-in. I bought my daughter a brand new 2003 Vue by trading in a vehicle that took up 67% of the price. The REAL amount of dollar value I got for the trade vehicle was far better at Saturn than at Toyota, Honda, or any other brand I investigated. The project ate up a lot of time, but I am convinced that Saturn won the contest. I DO understand the math. Saturn wanted to sell a vehicle a bit more than the competition.

varmint · May 2003

Fleetwood - I'm sure your math is correct, but I'm not so sure about the reasoning in your last sentence. It could also be any number of other possible explanations.

"Saturn wanted to sell a vehicle a bit more than the competition."

or...

Saturn couldn't get a higher price.

Saturn didn't have any other buyers.

The market price of a vehicle is most often aligned with how the buyers value that vehicle. If the market price is low, it's typically because the market does not value that design.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

Varmint, in your profile you say own a CRV, and if you bought it new, you know that buying a Honda requires you to value owning a Honda to an embarrassing level that makes Honda owners get pretty defensive. They are good cars, for the most part, and have an excellent reputation. Saturn division of GM is apparently having market share difficulties, and is hoping to alleviate that position by offering financial incentives to potential customers. Where you state that 'Saturn couldn't get a higher price or didn't have any other customers' has a ring of truth in it. Those situations are where the bargains reside in the car market. When you have confidence in your own ability to evaluate motor vehicles rather than follow the stampede to the overly popular brand names, you can find the really good values. It's a tough evaluation process that requires a lot of knowledge of vehicles, brands, and parent corporations. Such knowledge doesn't come easy.

icvci · May 2003

When you have confidence in your own ability to evaluate motor vehicles rather than follow the stampede to the overly popular brand names, you can find the really good values.

I'll buy that. Then again, it's not like I just followed the Pied Piper. I drove, I read, I listened, I bought.

varmint · May 2003

All I'm saying is that there are a number of reasons why the Saturn dealer made that offer to you. "They wanted it more" is only one possibility, and, given the way the market values the VUE, not a very likely one.

Actually, the CR-V is my first Honda. Prior to owning it, I was not a car nut and knew little about the industry. I didn't know enough to be biased. I drove a Plymouth, a Ford, 2 Subarus, a Chevy, and 2 Mazdas. I bought cars that I could afford. Of those cars, only one of the Mazdas impressed me.

When it came time for me to buy a new car, I did my research and drove everything in the class. I also checked out a few things outside of the class, just for good measure. I was looking for another car that would impress me. Cheap was no longer the sole criterion.

About 4-5 months after purchasing the CR-V, I logged onto the Town Hall for the first time. The CR-V had not only impressed me, it had turned me into an enthusiast. I continued to learn and found some things that I didn't like, but also found more information that continued to leave a favorable impression. Nowadays I'm attending and coordinating rallies for CR-V owners.

Point is... I didn't buy the CR-V because I valued Hondas. I didn't know enough about Hondas for that to be possible. Owning the CR-V is what convinced me that Honda provides a good value.

zapcat · May 2003

Well said.

icvci · May 2003

What Mazda were you happy with? Which were you less moved by?

Just curious.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

If you bought a CR-V, you likely bought a good car. No doubt it is one of the very best in the small SUV category.

varmint · May 2003

Ivcvi - I had an old MX6 (pre Probe clone) that was merely okay. It gave me fewer problems than the Cavalier Z24 I had before it, but it wasn't a great car.

The Mazda that impressed me was my wife's old 323 hatchback. It was a wierd-looking little thing, but the engine had good hustle, it ran like a champ, and we fit all kinds of stuff in the back. The MX6 was more fun to drive, but the 323 was simply a great car for the money.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

varmint: You contradict yourself in your statement, 'All I'm saying is that there are a number of reasons why the Saturn dealer made that offer to you. "They wanted it more" is only one possibility, and, given the way the market values the VUE, not a very likely one.'

You should stop and consider that I was offered a better deal by Saturn than I was offered by (for example) the Toyota dealer or any other I was considering. That is what I meant by saying "Saturn wanted to sell a vehicle a bit more than the competition." This is not a point of argument. I am simply clarifying the matter.

icvci · June 2003

Is the VUE closely related to the Isuzu Axiom? I saw an Axiom on the way in to work today andy it looked very much like the VUE.

dindak · June 2003

icvci : There are so not related, nor do they look alike.

fleetwoodsimca : Taking some time and not following the crowd is definitely where value is found, much like anything in life. Honda CR-V is a fine vehicle and I think it should be on any small SUV shopping list BUT, I think there are about 3 other SUVs I would deem to be a better value given the incentives that are now in place.

icvci · June 2003

Perhaps you haven't viewed them side by side. IMO They are very similar.

Don't get me wrong, they definitely have different ribbons and bows (door handles, headlights, taillights) but, much of the package looks the same.

Very similar shape.

vuefor2 · June 2003

I don't see much resemblance between the Vue and Axiom. I'm not a fan of the Axiom either.

To us, the Vue was a better value, even when we bought. We liked the polymer door panels, the peppy V6 and the tailgate better than the CR-V. Quality wise, our Vue has been very good, we are happy and we really have no complaints. I only wish we could get the 0% now on.

varmint · June 2003

There are several SUVs with lower price tags. That alone does not make them better values.

zapcat · June 2003

Axiom is rear wheel drive. VUE is not.

joey2brix · June 2003

While VUE sales are good, Saturn is still bleeding. They really need to push cars. Tough when you only have 3 car models. Izuzu will fade away soon. They'll be back to just making heavy trucks and engines in Japan soon.

icvci · June 2003

I'm not saying I don't like the way they look. The Axiom struck me as being very similar to the VUE.

Not good or bad, just an observation. I could be totally off. Seems I'm the only one who notices similarities so I guess I'm alone. Oh well, I can live with that.

dindak · June 2003

I agree, low price does not always = value.

I think the best in this class are VUE, CR-V, Escape and Tribute. I think the coming Equinox looks promising also.

I think Isuzu's days are numbered. Given they only make SUVs, they should be really good at it and they are average at best so sales keep sliding.

fleetwoodsimca · June 2003

Isuzu was good enough for Honda to have them rebadge some of their SUVs so that Honda could sell them under the Honda name. I wonder if those Isuzu Hondas remain the best Honda SUVs you can buy. Hey, the sheer irony of it all is captivating!

vuefor2 · June 2003

From what I have heard, Isuzus are very reliable. Unfortunately that's the only really good thing I have heard. What ever happened to that Joe Isuzu guy?? He was great.

tidester · June 2003

You can read all about the advertising mascot here. I haven't seen any of David Leisure's latest spots.

tidester, host

sellinhonda · June 2003

Honda used the Isuzu Rodeo and put an "H" on it and called it the Passport. It grew roots into the cement...In exchange they took the older Odyssey and called it the Oasis. Thats why it was such a big deal when the Pilot came out because it was Hondas first own full size SUV...

fleetwoodsimca · June 2003

I've thought for a long time that Isuzu has gotten a bad rap compared to the very good quality their trucks really are. Maybe that's the problem-- no cars, and that is considered a deficiency by the buying public. And now, Isuzu is selling a GM truck as their biggest model of SUV!

vinnyny · June 2003

The Saturn Vue and Isuzu Axiom are completely unrelated mechanically. If they share any parts whatsoever, it's merely a coincidence. The Axiom is actually closely related to the Rodeo. My kids call it the "Rodeo in a space suit".

Speaking of the Isuzu Rodeo, I owned a '99 model for 17,300 miles. It was perfectly reliable for 17,233 miles and went to the dealership only 5 times. It visited the dealer four times for regularly-scheduled maintenance (oil/filter changes/15,000 mile service). The fifth visit occurred at 17,234 miles when the transmission turned to soup--naturally it was 4:55 on a rainy Friday evening 20 miles from home. After four weeks, Isuzu returned the truck with a new transmission. I drove it straight to a GM dealer and traded it in.

By the way, I don't think all Isuzus are unreliable and I would buy another if they sold something worth owning. 6 year old designs (Rodeo), new skins on outdated designs (Axiom), and badge engineering (Ascender) aren't enough in today's competitive truck market.

dindak · June 2003

Exactly. Since Isuzu is only an SUV company, it should be making really good trucks, not 5 year old designs and re-badged Envoys. I think they need to invest some $$ or they are going to be out of business in 5 years (in North America anyway).

dfield · October 2003

Hello,

I just picked my 2003 AWD V6 VUE up on Monday... we love the ride, the looks, and the interior room. I am hoping the AWD is excellent, because that was the real reason we went for the VUE... it was between this and the 2003 CRV... the VUE incentives, along with the space and my brother's great experience with Saturn convinced me to buy the VUE.

Now the problem:

We had the "Service Engine Light Soon" come on at 150 miles... the dealer checked out the car, reset it and now it is back on at 223 miles... we have not had to put gasoline in the car yet (dealer gave us a full tank), so it is not related to a loose gas cap.

I am waiting for them to call me back now, to set-up an appointment for checking it again. Anyone else have a similar problem??

drivven · October 2003

We've got somewhere over 200 miles on our '04 FWD V6 and no problems like that. Probably an overly sensitive sensor.

My wife did notice one thing however. She accidentally bumped the shift lever and it went into neutral while she was at speed. Of course the engine immediately revved up and startled her. It seems like the shift path should be gated in some fashion to avoid such happenings. A rambunctious youngster in the passenger seat could accidently bump the gear selector into a different gear, or neutral at any time, causing a dangerous situation. It can't get into reverse because of gating, but the other gears are fair game.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

icvci · October 2003

sensitive sensor It just makes me laugh okay?

dindak · November 2003

wHY?

;-)

suvshopper4 · November 2003

Boy, talk about turbo lag...

icvci · November 2003

Man was that a slow response.

dindak · November 2003

Apparently a new 2.4L 170 hp Ecotec is being produced at the Saturn plant starting next year. If it goes into the 4 cyl VUE, those base models will have more hp than the CRV. Should make for interesting competition.

varmint · November 2003

I think the Vitara, Escape, and Xterra scared a lot of mnufacturers into thinking that a V6 was essential for the small SUV segment. Now they're finding out that a strong four cyl does have a solid audience. Ford is also coming back with a 2.3L for the Escape. Toyota is putting their 2.4L in the RAV4.

Benchmarks are always moving, though. Honda just spec'd out an Element with the 200 hp 2.4 from the TSX. It was just a show car for SEMA, but the CR-V is expected to get a mid-life face lift next year. Who knows...

What happened to the VUE this past year? Last year, CR had it rated above the industry average by about 10-15%. This year, it dropped to about 60% below the industry average. I know the average is always going higher, but that seems a bit disproportionate. Were there any major recalls or part failures? I didn't hear anything.

dindak · November 2003

Take what you read in CR with a grain of salt but I suspect the initial CVT adjustments that were needed probably pushed the numbers against the VUE over all.

I would prefer a V6, but a 2.4L Ecotec would be fine and would save me money. With a growing family, that could be important.

varmint · November 2003

Do you happen to know the sales ratio of CVTs vs V6s? I would have though that most VUEs would be the V6 model.

I took a closer look at the CR data and it looks like the majority of the bad vibes are coming from owners of 2002 models.

Body Integrity was rated "below average" (9-15% of owners reported problems). Body Integrity refers to squeaks, rattles, door seals, weather stripping, etc.

Body Hardware, Fuel, Suspension, and Electrical were all rated "average".

All the other categories were "above average" or "good".

I kinda doubt the CVT is the answer as the transmission category is scored above average and good for the 2002 and 2003 model years.

Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

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