Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Transmission FLush?
How often do you recommend this if all? Is changing your transmission filter/fluid enough or is this worth the extra money? And how much can one expect to pay for the flush?
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Each model has different failure modes some like the LS400 can last 200,000 miles or more since they use a premium [$5/qt] ATF and get a 2.5 qt [25%] pan drain every 30,000 miles.
Some US transmission barely last through the warranty most have problems [not to spec by 100k].
You must research your model to determine when the problems start [on average] and determine an economic analysis and any modifications that might extend its life! [external additional cooler], pan removal cleaning fliter change, flushes, etc.
Transmission life is a function of average vs peak torque transmission [assuming it is kept spotless inside] and average vs peak ATF temperature.
How much is doubling the life of the unit worth? The amount of the replacement cost. If it is $3000 you could spend slightly less than this amount on maintenance and still be ahead.
On my Q45 the average failure occurs at 80-100-120,000 miles with minimal factory recommended maintenance. Presently I have 168k and am hoping for 200k.
I have an external ATF cooler to lower the peak temp by 25F vs factory design [$150].
I use Mobile 1 Syn ATF [$5x14=$75-14=]$60 more than standard], I flush every 25k....6 flushes x $160 = $960 worth of EXTRA maintenance plus two pan drops cleaning and 2 new filters say $300 ...so I've spent $1260 and will spend another $200 before or at 200k say $1500 total or half the cost of a replacement [which are only warranted to last 12,000 miles or 1 year] they [partial rebuilds] typically last 36k or 2.5 years before you get to spend again.
There has been no definative study on extending transmission life other than the effects of fluid temperature.
A typical ATF flush runs $129 [BG machine] and uses 14 quarts plus a special cleaner additive and trans conditioner additive.
Transmission repair shops/dealers stay in business because owners don't perform extra maintenance to extend the life of units, if every tranny lasted twice as long a usual half would have to go out of business ...RIGHT!
Watch out many people when they have problems get them flushed for the first time and sell the car....you could be buying a car with very limited tranny life...why we always recommend that anyone purchasing a used car with 70-80k always have $3,000 in reserve.
My opinion, under normal circumstances with regular drains and fills never needed. You are flusing your money away.
You do get some fresh additives with the drain and fill which is why the proceedure does extend life some.
But if trany do all last 100,000 miles why are they not warrantied [36k worst 70k best], why do many sellers of aftermarket warranties require special maintenance proceedures, why are transmission shops still in business?
You are fooling yourself if you think manufacturers care how long a tranny last beyond the warranty....just good enough so that 97.7% last till the warranty is up is the most economical point. Lux models do provide better units since a bit more is expected of them [marketing JD Powers, etc].
Personally I could care less as either way I make revenue, actually since we installed and recommended flushing vigorously, our transmission replacement work has declined dramtically, but the associated revenue from flushing has almost made up for the lost profits plus we have more time to do more profitable jobs.
It really depends on whether you like to spend a small amount annually or all at one time.
How do you make much money on a $7000 machine [which requires $700 in annual maintenance]operated in our case by a $60k/yr tech taking an hour to do the job correctly using $33 worth of fluids and selling the service for $129...it is no more profitable than an average hour say $11 big deal. Now Joe Smoe paying a kid $10/hr can make money since it won't usually be done correctly or they will skimp on chemicals and time.
Techs hate to work on their own cars but in this case it must be worth it and they buy parts at our cost. So plus their labor a tranny job would still cost them $2000 vs your $3,000.
Keep up the good work discouraging people from flushing....there is a whole factory [260 employees] in Tenn. devoted to rebuilding Nissan trannys for replacement .... they need the work.
But of course, check your own car's service schedule and at least match that.
I have a 96 ls400 with 92k. I would like to get a tranny flush done,(among other things) where would q45 recommend and what to spend?!!
thank you .all suggestions welcomed for maintenance at this mileage.
]
And the reason that tranny shops do so well (unfortunately, some chain shops have the same reputation as used car salesmen) is that most people never have them serviced period. A simple drain and fill (especially with a drain plug) will let the tranny go indefinitely and so easy you can do it every 15,000 miles if you wish and save money with 4 drains and fills over one flush. I have done this over the past 10 years with at least 5 cars using synthetic ATF (if the guys doing the flushes really cared about your tranny they would also push synthetic) Profits come first as always! Actually, do (drain and fill) mine every 30,000 with synthetic
never a tranny failure and well over 100,000 miles.
One must take everything on these boards with a grain of salt and then use ones own level of comfort in any maintenance procedure!
The most common overfill errors occur with tranny fluid because no one takes the time to heat the tranny up by driving it at least 10 miles and then checking. Dealers, tranny shops, none of them will take the time to fill it properly only the owner will do that, a voice to make sure you check that fluid when hot and go back to assure it was not overfilled or underfilled!!!!!!!
I started doing it myself because no shop was willing to take the tech time to check it properly
That's what my mechanic did to my '00 Intrepid at 30,000 miles, and it's running, so far so good, at 52K miles.
This procedure is a little more time not by much given one is already lifted the car and performed a drain and fill on the transmission pan, however if this procedure is done and one used a really good synthetic procedure would not have to be repeated as often.
You will be shocked on an LS400 [2.3 quarts out of 10] on J30/Q45 [2.6 quarts out of 10.3].
On most cars 66-80% is inside the torque convertor and won't drain.
The flush machines recommend a solvent be added to the old ATF then the car run in ALL gears sequentially at 2000 rpm [on a lift wheels turning]for 3-5 minutes each [this takes 15-20 minutes [heats the ATF up so solvent cleans all the varnish/loose stuff from valve body passages.
This is where some people skimp and there is a definite difference between a simple total fluid exchange and a rigorous cleaning then a fluid exchange.
Sometimes [50/50] the first time flush aggressive cleaning doesn't result in PERFECT clean ATF and you end up just doing it twice.....failure to do enough is why some people have failures after a flush because there was just too much crap inside and the technican doesn't care enough to discuss this possibility or warn the first time user that two times [double price] may be required.
Same with an oil change [following agressive chemical cleaning desludging] you may need an oil change every day for a week to get all the loose crud out.
For reasons above I prefer not to flush. And, as noted, if solvents used can be dangerous,
The transmission problems people are having are mostly poor design.The TH350 never gave any trouble and most people did nothing to them.Then came the overdrive units,trouble from then on and all design problems.
A flush will not fix a design problem.
60 miles and performed one more drained and refilling. My 2000 Camry is even running smoother with 12500 miles on it. The Toytota dealer wanted $80 just flush them (I bring my own ATF). May be I will do one flush job sometime before 100K miles mark.
Ours are salaried [$52-65k/yr] plus 100% medical and dental. They are all certified and each has over $20,000 in personal tools, some $50,000.
You won't find this at dealers where employees are paid by book/hr for each job they do thus short cuts are the rule in order to make a decent living with warranty work [bogging them down].
A simple discussion [not with the service writer] as to what care you expect, the level of service you demand, and a $20 [per actual hour worked up to 2-3] tip [some in advance] to the person doing the work will get you better work than do it yourself.
Anyways, where is your shop located, I live in atlanta and would like to have my car service by your shop.
Give me a break!!!!!!
If the customer needs to talk with the tech instead of the service advisor to get the desired information, then maybe the service advisor is not necessary. I have felt for years that, in most shops/service departments, the service advisor is an unnecessary and unknowledgeable middle man. I've seen knowledgeable service advisors/shop managers at only one shop in my experience. Everywhere else, they didn't know a lick about what was going on.
Get some high school kids with a personality and they can do a better job!
The key was that all techs would be salaried to remove some of the pressure to take short cuts to maximize income. Build reputation for Quality at a fair price but keep overhead low [without fancy surroundings or loaner cars].
The service writer/store manager are ex technicans who could function with the more difficult task of dealing with customers [much more difficult than a car].
All technicans and the store manager are paid in the same range [$52k-$65/yr] primarily based on longevity.
The only bonus structure is if all 4 techs bill more than 200 hrs combined each week everyone gets an extra $100.
They may work paid overtime before 8AM or after 6PM as the work load dictates....the shop is closed Sat-Sunday to give everyone time to recover.
The average repair ticket is $334 and the labor rate is $68 per hour [Inf & Lexus parts are expensive].
If a waiter served you food and provided extraordinary service and quality what would you tip him for this effort 15-20%?
To a technican who may work on 20 [30] or more cars per week, one is the same as another [unless it belongs to your mother or A Friend who respects you]. Of course a certain minimum level of performance is expected depending on the wishes of management.
Obviously many of you are so use to Quicky Lube guys and Joe the High School drop out, a real technican who spent 2-4 years attending Vocational College earning a 2 year degree minimum, going into debt spending $30,000 on tools or has a BSEE, MSIE, MBA [myself] in the repair business is rare.
Switching to synthetic might be the ticket for a new tranny or it might provide years of trouble free service.
Just changed the atf on my 97 accord after 30k since last change-fluid was discolored-no burnt smell and I drive almost exclusively at highway speeds. Change that ATF-the tranny you destroy could be your own.
Like oil the higher numbers can usually be used in engines etc. calling for the lower ones. IE: use a SJ oil for engine calling for SE, using Dexron III when calling for a II.
Not true for gear oils though. Should not use a GL-5 when a GL-4 is called for.