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What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

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Comments

  • patc890patc890 Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I just took a drive in a 2006 is 250 that my nephew is thinking of taking the lease of over. This car looked like it was still in the show room. I've never driven a Lexus of any type before so I was surprised at the noise/feeling I got from the car. It's hard to explain but when I turned it on a heard low rumbling kind of sound and even said to the guy if the engine always sounded like this, he said yes. When I drove it this sound seemed to get worse. It wasn't a nice throaty sports car sound. It didn't seem to effect the feel of the car or performance of it. So I was wondering if people who have this car (it is a sports version of it I'm told) could say if this is because of the more sports setup and could be the mufflers or something like that? I told my nephew I wouldn't buy it with the sound without having it checked out. If it was new and had this sound I wouldn't buy it.
    Sorry I couldn't explain the sound/feel better but just wondering if this car is like that.

    Pat.
  • patc890patc890 Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I just took a drive in a 2006 is 250 that my nephew is thinking of taking the lease of over. This car looked like it was still in the show room. I've never driven a Lexus of any type before so I was surprised at the noise/feeling I got from the car. It's hard to explain but when I turned it on a heard low rumbling kind of sound and even said to the guy if the engine always sounded like this, he said yes. When I drove it this sound seemed to get worse. It wasn't a nice throaty sports car sound. It didn't seem to effect the feel of the car or performance of it. So I was wondering if people who have this car (it is a sports version of it I'm told) could say if this is because of the more sports setup and could be the mufflers or something like that? I told my nephew I wouldn't buy it with the sound without having it checked out. If it was new and had this sound I wouldn't buy it.
    Sorry I couldn't explain the sound/feel better but just wondering if this car is like that.

    Pat.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited August 2010
    Nope. The term here is SNAFU. ;)

    Everything is as it should be, even though it's all wrong at the same time. It's a sofa on wheels. A Japanese Buick, in essence. If you want something with a soul and that's not going to feel like an old 80 year old's car or a taxi, just get a G37. Because the Lexus is a bland void by comparison. .
  • breakfastclubbreakfastclub Member Posts: 8
    I'm trying to decide between 4 cylinder versions of the 2011 Malibu LTZ and 2011 Fusion SEL. After rebates and GM card incentives on the Malibu the Fusion is about $400 higher than the Malibu.

    The Malibu seems to be a quieter and smoother ride. The headrests are gigantic and are problematic backing up. I suppose I really need to learn how to use side view mirrors properly. I prefer the looks of the Malibu exterior.

    The Fusion isn't as quiet or smooth, but the seat goes up higher and the head rests don't seem to be AS intrusive as the Malibu's. I'm no techie but the Sync seems pretty slick, if I could figure it out. Don't even own an I-pod at this point.

    Any suggestions for deciding which one to buy?
  • miltiadesmiltiades Member Posts: 16
    Maybe the choice will be easier asking some questions, such as:
    Which car do you visualize still enjoying in about four years?
    Which one has a more comfortable ride?
    Which car has higher ratings overall?
    Is this a good time to learn use side mirrors for your safety and safety of your passengers?
    Which car has better colors or interiors?
    Which car is more likely to have fewer changes in the next few years to make the 2011 look more dated?
    Hope this helps.
  • miltiadesmiltiades Member Posts: 16
    From your words it seems the Malibu feels like the better choice.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    The Fusion will have a higher resale value than the Malibu, especially in the first few years. According to Edmunds 'True Cost to Own' calculation, the Fusion SEL depreciates $2354 in the first year and the Malibu LTZ is more than double at $4712 in the first year alone. Without a 15-20% down payment and/or a very low interest rate, you would have negative equity in the Malibu for the first few years! In other words, you'd owe more than the car is worth.

    The Fusion may not be as smooth/cushy, but it does have some advantages over the Malibu. According to Consumer Reports test results, the Fusion has better overall handling and better emergency handling, shorter braking distances (stops faster) especially on wet roads, and has better passing power because the transmission will kick down more readily when you press the gas. All of those are safety benefits in my book, plus the SYNC and non-obtrusive headrests are safer as well!

    As far as the Fusion's exterior looks, the regular SEL is a little plain looking, some colors more so than others. Did you look at any Fusions with the optional Appearance Package? It costs $895 and has larger, nicer looking wheels/tires, rear spoiler, unique trim on the center stack and instrument panel and your choice of body-color grille or a dark chrome grille. The dark chrome does wonders for the front end compared to the standard chrome grille, which is a bit too flashy (in my opinion). It's only available on four colors- Tuxedo Black, Sport Blue, Candy Red, and Sterling Grey and only with Charcoal Black interior.

    There's also a $1295 Luxury Package for the SEL that has polished aluminum wheels (same size as regular SEL but prettier), chrome mirror caps and door handles, premium leather interior in Ginger or Black, Contrasting stitching on the seats and leather steering wheel and illuminated front door sills. It's available with every exterior color except Sport Blue and the Ginger interior is really gorgeous and looks/feels like it should be in a $40k car. It's a new option for 2011, probably because the Mercury Milan is history and it always had a fancier interior option than Fusion.

    One other thing to keep in mind, the SEL has a Reverse Sensing System option for $295 on any SEL model. It beeps when it sensing anything behind you and the beeps get faster as you get closer to the object...pretty handy, in my experience.

    The Fusion also has a larger trunk than the Malibu (15.1 cu ft vs. 16.5 cu ft and the opening is bigger on the Fusion). Fuel economy is almost identical, but the Fusion also has a bigger gas tank (17.5gal vs. 16.0) so you won't be stopping quite as often to fill up.

    The Malibu does have a better powertrain warranty than Fusion- 100,000 miles vs. 60,000 miles. But it's five years either way, so if you don't plan to drive close to 20,000 miles per year, the extra coverage on the Malibu is irrelevant. The Malibu also has a standard 8-speaker Bose stereo that sounds a lot better than the standard 6-speaker stereo in the Fusion. But for $895 on the SEL, you can get the "Moon and Tune package" which gives you a Power Moonroof and a 12-speaker, 390-watt Sony Surround Sound audio system that sounds better than any Lexus or BMW stereo I've ever heard! =)

    Final note- my best friend has a 2010 SEL and SYNC is awesome and very easy to use! Trust me, he has trouble using the microwave but he figured out how to use it! =)
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Buy whatever car YOU like overall and don't be swayed by others opinions. Reading & listening to others can be exhausting & sometimes, personal opinion gets thrown in way too often. Pros & cons with either choice so get the better car for you. No personal preference here for either model...always buy what I like!

    Good luck!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • breakfastclubbreakfastclub Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

    I'm not much closer on the Malibu/Fusion decision, but I did drive a Regal today. I like the looks, but didn't care for the ride so much. At least I was able to make a decision about something. Now back to square one.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I'd be interested to hear what you didn't like about the ride in the Regal? How would you describe it? It's based on a European GM model (Opel something or other) and I was wondering if the ride and handling will be too "Euro" for most American drivers....

    You have only mentioned GM and Ford cars so far, so I don't know if you're completely opposed to considering anything else.....but I've thought of a few very good possibilities that might want to consider and test drive-

    2011 Toyota Camry XLE 4-cylinder- MSRP- $27,865 Selling- $21,866
    (built in Lafayette, IN and Georgetown, KY)
    The only option included in this price is the XLE Value Pkg #2, which adds the heated leather seats and leather door trim...everything else is standard already.

    2010 Mazda 6 i Grand Touring 4-door- MSRP- $26,835 Selling- $22,255
    w/ Technology Package- MSRP- $28,815 Selling- $23,839
    *Shares the same engine with the Ford Fusion; the current Fusion is a modified version of the original 2006 Fusion, which was based on the original 2003 Mazda6....so it and Fusion share some DNA, but the Mazda is hot looking!
    (Built in Flat Rock, MI in a plant shared with Ford Mustang production!)
    Tech Pkg adds-
    Advanced Keyless Entry and Start system with Push Button Start
    Driver seat memory
    Power passenger seat
    Auto on/off Xenon HID headlights (auto-adjusting)
    Rain-sensing wipers
    Auto-dim interior mirror w/ Homelink remote
    Body-color heated auto-dim side view mirrors
    LED combo rear lights (brighter and safer)
    SIRIUS satellite radio
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • breakfastclubbreakfastclub Member Posts: 8
    Too "Euro" for me might be the way to describe the Regal. It is certainly a nice looking car but I found the ride too stiff for my liking. The doors felt more substantial than the other vehicles I've looked at. Door locks are on the center dash/console and the parking brake is an electronic button. Cup holders are on the smallish side too - must be the Venti Starbucks aren't big in Europe ;)

    The Mazda and Toyota are appealing but I'm trying to stay domestic - even though that definition is debatable.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    The Cruze has this set up and it'll take a short time to get used to it. Wouldn't be surprised if GM uses this site on future models as well. There must be a good reason for the location change.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    One less thing to make different for right-hand drive vs. left-hand drive, I'd guess.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Part of the "world car philosophy" I reckon, but if helps to reduce the costs...why not. Not a bad position actually, as I usually turn on the radio within minutes of taking off. Works for me.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    Your desire to buy 'domestic' is admirable, just as long as you get a vehicle that you like and will enjoy over the long haul. Fortunately, Ford and GM both offer some very competitive cars, which hasn't always been the case...

    If you weren't aware, the Ford Fusion is actually built in Hermosillo, Mexico and the Buick Regal is built in Ontario, Canada. The Malibu is made in Lansing, Michigan and, if I'm not mistaken, some are manufactured in Kansas City, Kansas. All of the major Asian brands (Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai and even Subaru and Mitsubishi) are built here in the U.S. also.

    A few other ideas- when you test drove the Buick Regal, did you take a look at the Lacrosse also? The entry-level CX model has the same engine and transmission as the Malibu LTZ (2.4L and 6-speed A/T) and the ride quality should be more comfy that the Regal. They also look amazing, at least I think so...

    And what about the Mercury Milan (sibling to the Ford Fusion)? It has a more tasteful front-end design and the interior is more upscale also. The ride may also be more comfortable and quieter than the Fusion.

    One final note, just in case you didn't know- there is a $2000 Cash Allowance (rebate) on the 2011 Malibu AND $1000 in "Marketing Support" (Cash to Dealer) thru 11/01/2010. So there's really $3000 in cash incentives for you to include in your negotiations if you decide to go with the Malibu! =)
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And on the Milan, I am seeing advertised prices for the Milan in my area LOWER than for the Fusion... no doubt related to the lame-duck status of the Milan. Which is too bad; I prefer the Milan to the Fusion.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I actually like the exterior of the Milan more than the Fusion, it's more upscale and classy looking, IMO. But the questionable two-tone interior combos on some versions are a bit much. They also dropped the 18" Luster Nickel Wheel upgrade, which was offered on the 2010 Premier.

    There are a good many NEW 2010 and 2011 Milans on dealer lots...I expected deeper price cuts by now, at least on the 2010 models...

    I wonder if Mercury will be shut down similar to the way GM did with Saturn and Pontiac? They sort of dumped the cars on dealers at a huge discount, but they had to be sold as 'used' models after that point....then again, there were a lot of those two brands...how many Mercurys can there be in all?
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • breakfastclubbreakfastclub Member Posts: 8
    There aren't any new Milans around here but I drove a used 2008 Milan with 60,000 miles and liked that just fine. My last car had 60,000 miles on it when I bought it but for some reason the high mileage is a little more bothersome to me this time. I am aware that the Fusion is made in Mexico. With the Malibu we also have a pretty hefty amount in GM card rebates/bonus earnings that we can use in addition to the dealer rebates. I'm going to have a Malibu over night and see how that goes. I'm still not sure about the visibility - drove one the other day and nearly sideswiped a car while I was entering the highway.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    That was the big problem for me when we rented a Malibu back in '09...the limited visibility all around. Had to switch out of that rental about 100 miles from home as there were some other issues. Put us into a Accord EX and visibility was outstanding plus the mileage was pretty impressive with the car being totally full with 4 of us & a loaded trunk.

    If they had had a Fusion/Milan on the lot, would've wanted that just to see how Ford stood up to a major competition player. Guess we'll never know as we're only looking at compacts & subcompacts now.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • dphil5dphil5 Member Posts: 3
    Hey,

    I've been looking at an 05 Nissan Maxima SE. It has 47,518 miles on it. Here of some of its installed options

    * Anti-Lock Brakes
    * Alloy Wheels
    * Bose Sound System
    * Cruise Control
    * CD Player
    * Tilt Steering Wheel
    * Power Drivers Seat
    * Power Passenger Seat
    * Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel
    * Traction Control
    * Heated Seats
    * Sunroof
    * Steering Wheel Controls
    * Tinted Glass

    The asking price is $15,788. The carfax looks good. Its been on the market for 82 days now. Im thinking of asking for no more that $12,500 for it. Do you think that I'm asking a fair price?
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Member Posts: 228
    The Kelly Blue Book on the car is 16K Retail, 14K Private Party, and 12K trade-in. So an offer of $12500 to a dealer may be a bit low.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Your location could help a bit. Does it have leather seats?

    If so, it is worth roughly $11k on a trade, depending on what it currently needs (are brakes good? tires? has it had all its services done?). You could try $12,500, but that might not fly. $13,500 is much more likely and a pretty fair price for both parties.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • breakfastclubbreakfastclub Member Posts: 8
    I (and my wallet) finally made a decision. Having the Malibu overnight really helped, so Malibu it is.
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Member Posts: 299
    The best buy is a used 2009 or 2010 Malibu LTZ. They are just like the 2011 models. These run around 12-16k and the LTZ comes with everything standard including the Bose stereo so your only choice is color unless you want a sunroof. The Malibu depreciates nearly 50% in two years. The new LTZ will run about $26000 with a rebate. I've given up buying new GM cars unless I plan to keep the car 5 years or more. My 2006 Impala cost about $23,000 and two years later with 20,000 miles I sold it to a used car lot for $12,800 . It was advertised by the lot for $13,600 and sat there for nearly a month. (this was a silver LT2 with Bose stereo and flip and fold seats -nothing wrong with it -garage kept -like new). Buying a new GM car that you only plan to keep for three years or so is a big waste of money.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Yet, despite being total bland blobs, I've not had a GM car in the last 20 years or so not last until it was at least 12-13 years old. That' s a good decade of reliable service for 10-12K. If you buy a 2-3 year old model. I know everyone bags on the domestics, but if money is an issue, well, a used GM still beats a tiny econobox. (as I've said, it BETTER be more car, since it cost 25-30K new) And, to be honest, Toyota and Honda price their cars and repairs like Volvo did 15-20 years ago - just a huge premium for no good reason.

    Let the other guy eat the depreciation. If they're rich enough to buy new cars, well, they are going to be the first bawling their eyes out when the floor falls out of this economy. Me? My car will long be paid off. And I've been there years ago with no car and taking the bus. Even bad wheels beat no wheels - and that repo man isn't going to care about your lost job or your dog's operation or whatever else you've got wrong in your life.

    note - I have several friends and relatives that are spending over $1K a month in car payments and insurance on both of their cars. And I just shake my head.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I think new car buyers here would appreciate slacking off on brow-beating about the new/used car thing. Everybody who buys new doesn't have a $1,000 car payment who can't afford it. Truth is, buying a 2009 car versus a new one won't save that much money, especially with brands that hold resale well.

    If you're financing, you'll have higher rates vs. new car rates as well, typically. To some, an extra $30 a month is worth peace-of-mind knowing who nobody beat the car to death before selling it. $30 a month is one nice dinner for 2. Crying because they're now broke when they could've bought new? That argument only works if you were torn between a used Sonata and a new 750iL. If a $2,000-$3,000 is the difference in making or breaking you, you have no business shopping cars that are only 2 years old; you should be driving a beater and saving your car payment money.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Well, it's both of their new cars adding up to $1000 total. Or about $500 each with registration and insurance factored in.

    But wait, a 2009 car won't save you a lot of money? OK... Let's pick a random "hot" car. um.. A G37. Yeah, that's just totally random and I have no idea what the depreciation is, and I'm doing this off of the top of my head as I'm typing this, so let's go find out if I'm correct or full of it...

    New, it's $36,932 for the Sport/Appearance model. This represents the best value for the options to make this as unfair as possible.(if you option out a Journey the same, it's $39995! - I'm nothing if not cheap. ;)

    2009 Journey model with everything on it... (no idea, really)

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=284103648
    $25K. Bit higher mileage, but that's certainly mostly highway miles in 1.5 years. With registration(let's say you live in a state with no sales tax, even), that's still a $12K difference in two years. In California, that's actually a $15K difference after the tax man gets to your wallet.

    But wait, that's an anomaly, surely. Let's pick another random car. A Honda Civic. Yeah. That's the ticket. Supposed to depreciate barely any in two years and again, I have no idea what the numbers are. I just picked whatever popular car that came to my mind that's NOT a GM or Ford.(Chrysler, well, nobody's going to buy one anyways, so 'nuff said...)

    Cars Direct new price is: LX with automatic - $18,282.

    Used 2009 LX

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=c&car_id=282224197
    $12,995. That's a $5000 savings. Oh, in case you think that's an isolated example, the number of 2009 Civic LX with automatic at $13K or less were.... 405 currently for sale in the U.S.

    In short, I was so sure your math was crap that I did this entirely blind, just to prove my point. Used always beats new on price these days. Welcome to the new economy with its much harsher depreciation.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited November 2010
    As always, YMMV. I just did a search for 2009 Civics within 500 miles of me (which includes large cities such as MSP, Chicago, and KC) for less than $13k and there's a total of 6. And they're all in Chicago... 7 hours away by car.

    Suppose I drive or fly to Chicago to buy one of these (and I like what I find). Suppose I want zero out of pocket (realistic, that's how I got my last car). Plus I have to pay 6.5% tax, license, and title fees. (We'll forget about my costs to get to and from Chicago, but those add up too.) Those add roughly $1300. Suppose I can get a real good loan rate, say 5%, for 60 months (60 months to keep my payments down--I want to minimize my monthly outlay). Plus consider this is a used car with an average of 15-20,000 miles used, probably an early 2009 so a bit over one year of bumper-to-bumper warranty left (given it's a Honda).

    Or as an alternative, I could lease something like a new 2010 Elantra or Sentra for around $180/month, zero out of pocket (actual prices from my area). Or a new 2011 Civic for no more than $199/month, zero out of pocket (today's advertised price, maybe I could negotiate a better deal). Plus I have a new car, no worries about how it's been maintained, full warranty, no significant service for at least 30,000 miles (i.e. the life of the lease for me), and $70 a month lower out of pocket costs. Sure, at the end of the lease I walk away with nothing. But if cash flow is the main concern, used is not necessarily the best way to go these days.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited November 2010
    The problem with leases, though, is that even the most basic lease on an econobox will generally run you $7-9K for three years and you'll be left with still paying for the price of the new car registration and insurance. And then fees for any wear or tear, no matter how small(got to LOVE Honda for this nit-picking).

    And you don't have the car in the end. A 6 year old mid-size sedan will generally be worth about 6-8K, so it's like I said, a wash. But you do get a bigger and most of the time, better car to drive during those years - and since you own it, you can always keep it for longer. If you do keep a single vehicle like this for ten years, you'll be looking at about 2K a year including repairs, registration, extra fuel costs and so on. That's not bad for a Cadillac(this also applies to a used import if you want to go to 4-5 years old). A Lexus or Infiniti I could see myself driving for ten years. I'd want to get out of a lease on a Corolla as soon as I could, on the other hand. They are simply put, rattling, bouncy, flimsy econoboxes built to be basic transportation and not much else.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited November 2010
    ...and you'll be left with still paying for the price of the new car registration and insurance.

    Insurance, yes--in any case. But the examples I gave for leases were "sign and drive", which means $0 out of pocket, meaning registration fees are included.

    I found that the insurance on a brand-new 2010 Sentra was about the same as my previous car, a 2007 Rabbit. So no benefit there, new vs. used.

    Keeping a car ten years... that's a whole 'nuther discussion. Few people do that these days. Longest I've ever kept a car is 6-1/2 years, and that's a 2004 Elantra that I still own. I will likely keep that one for 10+ years, as it has to take one of my sons through college, but it only cost $13k new, fully loaded--about the price of a nice used compact today. (BTW, it's neither bouncy nor flimsy.) That was the last new car I bought. Since then, it's been used, or leases. I've gone the lease route when I needed a good car for little or nothing up front and low payments. Sometimes the cash flow is important. That was my point.
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Member Posts: 299
    The Fusion has a fantastically good reliability record as per Consumer Reports. The Malibu doesn't. This doesn't mean that YOUR Malibu will have problems but the record is plain to see. I'll probably get a Fusion just based on the CR reliability record.
  • dispencer2dispencer2 Member Posts: 299
    The key is buying a car that holds its resale value. A new Lexus would hold its resale value for years. Virtually none of the GM midsize or compacts do. I would only buy a used car if it was 35-50% cheaper than the new model. There are some conditions,

    The used car (like a Malibu) would have to have less than 36,000 miles so that part of the original bumper to bumper warranty still existed. It would have to be GM Certified.

    I would buy at least a 3 year GM Protection Plan so the car would be covered essentially like a new one.

    The car would have to be pretty much identical to the current model. There was essentially no difference between the 08-10 Malibus..
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Actually, the resale value the quote is percentage and not actual dollars. You are always better off getting a vehicle with high initial depreciation a few years old. If you buy one car for $12K and the other for 16K, and they depreciate to 2K and 4K in another 6-7 years, you're actually behind 2K on the "lower depreciation" vehicle.
  • chcatchcat Member Posts: 4
    I recently wrecked my Corolla 2000 - the car went into a spinoff on the slash and hit the gardrail.
    I had it for 10 years and for the most part have been happy with it. The only real problem i see with this model is the winter performance. The model definitely has a propensity for spinoffs ( I had similar incident before). Can someone recommend something in similar class but with better track record for the winter conditions? My priorities: 1. Reliability 2. Fuel economy ( My daily commute is ~100m) 3. Winter performance
    Any opinions?
    Thanks.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Winter performance has very very little to do with the vehicle itself. If you put those same tires from your Corolla on something deemed "a good winter car," it would also become a bad winter car.

    Best winter car I've had yet was a rear-wheel drive 18-year-old car with no traction or stability control. But I did put a good set of snow tires on it. That makes ALL the difference.

    SOO... get yourself any economy car you like with traction and stability control and make sure you have tires that are good in the snow and ice, and you are good to go.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    If you own your own home, you might consider a CNG powered vehicle. With a 200-250 mile range, but the ability to add a filling device to your garage, it's a very attractive solution since fuel will run you roughly $1.50 a "gallon"(equivalent). The price difference between a normal Civic and a CNG one will be paid back with a commute like that in a few years. And if you are in a situation where they have carpool lanes, most states give CNG vehicles lifetime access to use them.(unlike hybrids where they largely stopped issuing them).

    Figure 250 days a year X 100 miles. That's 25K a year. Figure 30K with weekend and other driving. Wth a 40mpg sub-compact, you'd be looking at 750 gallons x $3.50-$4.00 vs. 30mpg with the CNG Civic, or 1.25-$1.50 x 1000. Roughly $1500 a year savings in fuel.

    Winter performance, well, you have to use snow tires. Nothing will run well in snow without them except for maybe a 4x4.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi Breakfastclub:

    I own a new 2010 LTZ Malibu with a four cylinder engine. ----- If I had to purchase this vehicle again, I WOULD NOT make the purchase with the four (4) cylinder engine. ---- I would purchase the V6 engine. ---- I would also insist that the dealer change the tires from Goodyear to Michelin. (YES, this would be a "deal breaker!")

    REASONS FOR MY DECISION:

    1.) The Goodyear tires leak air.
    2.) The Goodyear tires have issues, check the "net."
    3.) The four (4) cylinder engine lacks power, and does not get the posted MPG The best mileage I have achieved is 27mpg. ---- (posted mileage is 30 to 33 mpg)

    NOTE: ---- I also own a 2007 V6 XLE Toyota Camry. On a road trip I can easily get 30 mpg. ----- On some trips I have achieved 34 mpg. ------ (I sacrificed performance with the Malibu, by getting the four cylinder engine, and I am not getting the mileage!) ---- While I like the looks and the quality of the fit & finish of the vehicle, I NO LONGER ENJOY DRIVING THIS VEHICLE! ----- I made a BIG MISTAKE purchasing this vehicle, and if I could afford to trade this vehicle, I would do so in a heart beat! ----- Maybe if I had the V6, I would feel better, but a this point in time it is just wishful thinking. ----- I have owned a four cylinder 2003 Honda Accord in the past, and that vehicle could give me decent mileage and run rings around this Malibu in terms of performance. ------ The Malibu rides like the Honda Accord, but it does not perform like the Honda Accord. ----- If I could turn back the hands of time, I would purchase another XLE V6 Camry. ---- I do all my servicing at the selling dealer at 2,500 mile intervals. ---- My tire pressure is checked and reset at that time. ----- Within four weeks, the tire pressure is down from 30psi to 28psi. ----- My seliing dealer is outstanding. ------ GM is another issue. ---- I have sent the GM Rep an E-mail, off this site, and I am currently waiting for a response. ----- I hope they at least take the time to respond to my inquiry. ----- I will either bite the financial bullet, and put four (4) new original equipment Michelin tires on this vehicle at a cost of $888.00 dollars, ----- or I will trade the vehicle for a used XLE 2009 Camry. (Tires had a lot to do with getting MPG.) ---- Even with the Ford Fusion be very careful about the four cylinder engine. ----- Best regards. ----- Dwayne :lemon: :confuse: :cry: :shades:
  • temj12temj12 Member Posts: 450
    I don't find a two point loss in one month to be excessive. Your pressure is determined by weather more than anything. With a temperature drop from the time you put 30psi to the time you have the car serviced, 28psi could easily be. Even without the temperature drop, two pounds is nothing. I have Michelins on an '09 and it happens with them too.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi temj12:

    I respect your opinion, but my XLE V6 Toyota Camry with Aluminum Alloy wheels and Michelin tires do not loose air! ---- There is a connection between the quality for these tires and the lack of MPG!

    Best regards! ---------- Dwayne :shades: ;)
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    Your comments about the substantial differences between the Michelin's on your 2007 Camry and the Goodyears on your 2010 Malibu were very interesting. Enough so that I decided to do a little research and here's what I found-

    The 2010 Malibu LTZ uses a P225/50TR18 Goodyear Eagle LS-2 (Grand Touring All-Season) tire. The only thing vaguely interesting about these tires are the price- only $98 each for replacements! For an 18" tire with a 50-series sidewall, that is DIRT CHEAP...rarely a good sign when it comes to tire quality.

    The 2007 Camry uses a P215/60VR16 Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 (Grand Touring All-Season) tire. This tire wears the "Michelin Green X" Low-Rolling-Resistance certification (and costs $172 each for replacements). It was the standard tire on most 2006-2010 Hyundai Sonata, all 2005-2007 Honda Accord Hybrid, 2007-2011 Toyota Camry and 2007-2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid models! It is engineered to be the most efficient tire in its class and apparently it does just that.

    When the time comes to replace the OEM Goodyears on your Malibu, here are three very good replacements you should take a look at-

    Michelin Primacy MXM4 - P225/50VR18
    Grand Touring All-Season
    'Green X' LRR-rating
    $209 each - 6-year/55,000-mile treadwear warranty

    Michelin HydroEde - P225/50TR18
    Passenger All-Season
    'Green X' LRR-rating
    $158 each - 6-year/90,000-mile treadwear warranty

    Continental ProContact with EcoPlus Technology- P225/50TR18
    Standard Touring All-Season
    EcoPlus+ LRR-rating
    $118 each - 6-year/80,000-mile treadwear warranty
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi igozoomzoom:

    Thank you for your very interesting and informative posting! ---- You have just proved my point, that General Motors has equipped the "top of the line Chevrolet Malibu LTZ" with the bottom of the line Goodyear Tires! ----- (This is an accident looking for a place to happen, and of course it will always be "driver's error!" ----- If one of these fails on the road, I will be sure to retain the tire, and have it examined by a tire expert! ----- If it turns out to be defective in materials and workmanship, I will seek legal advice! ---- This could turn out to be another Ford Explorer / Firestone issue!)

    I am very sure that if I put Michelin Tires on the Malibu, I will get at least 30 MPG, if not close to 33 MPG. ----- Now having said that, as a customer who is trying to buy from an American name plate, I feel that GM has treated me, and others who own this vehicle in a very "shabby manner!" ---- This vehicle is competing against the Honda Accord, the Toyota Camry and the Hyundai Sonata, but GM does not put the same quality type of tires on their vehicle. ---- Personally, I feel General Motors owes me a set of high quality tires. ----- Now the question becomes, how do I get GM to pay for the tires?

    This is why consumers have abandoned the American Car companies in the past! ---- If the American car companies want loyal customers, ----- loyalty works both ways!

    Best regards. --------- Dwayne

    Best regards. ---------------- Dwayne :lemon: :shades: :confuse: ;):)
  • bdymentbdyment Member Posts: 573
    Do you check the air pressure after the Chev dealer sets them at 30psi?
    Perhaps their gauge doesn't read the same as yours. Again as many others have mentioned 2psi in a month is nothing to worry about.

    You could replace the four tires with top of the line Michelins and still have a slight lose in a month. The rims could be the problem, not the Goodyears. Then what do you do? Demand GM replace the rims for a 2psi lose. They will never do that and no other manufacturer would either. If you were losing five psi per month then you would have a case.

    Comparing the tires on the Camry to the Malibu. The tire gauge that the Toyota dealer uses simply may be reading the same as yours and the Chev dealer's gauge slightly different.

    Manufacturers use all types of tires on vehicles. However, they all must meet or exceed rigorous safety standards. Everyone has had problems with various brands--for instance the owners of late model Toyota Highlanders with 19 inch rims complain about poor traction in winter and the wet roads with the tire that Toyota installed from the factory.

    I am afraid that you just don't have a case for tire or rim replacement with maybe a slight 2psi loss per month. The tire isn't going to self destruct due to a slight lose of air. Me thinks you are overly concerned.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    HI bdyment:

    Thank you for the response to my recent posting. I appreciate your ideas on this subject and I would like to respond to your posting.

    1.) (QUOTE: "Do you check the air pressure after the Chevrolet Dealer sets the air at 30psi?") --------- Kindly be advised that I choose to have all my vehicles serviced, by the selling dealer every 2,500 miles, because I do not believe in extended oil and filter changes. ----- At that point in time, I have all fluids checked, and the tires set at the proper psi. ---- (At the appropriate mileage, the vehicle's tires are rotated.) ----- After four weeks the tire pressure is down to 28 psi, as indicated by the "on-board monitoring system." ----- (QUESTION: ---- Is a "hand held tire gauge" more accurate than the "on-board monitoring system?" ----- If that is true, then I seriously question the quality of the entire vehicle!) ------ If I am taking my vehicle to an authorized Chevrolet dealership for service, I would assume that they have the correct knowledge and equipment to do the task correctly. ---- In addition, the "monitoring system" always shows that I have 30psi when leaving the dealership. ---- (NOTE: I do check the oil in the engine once a week, in the morning prior to leaving for work, because there is no monitoring system for being one quart low!)

    2.) (QUOTE: "You could replace the four (4) tires with top of the line Michelins and still have a slight loss in a month. ---- The rims could be the problem, not the Goodyears. Then what do you do? ---- Demand GM replace the rims for 2psi?) ------ There is a very good possibility that the problem could involve both the tires and / or the rims. ----- If the rims are porous, then there is a manufacturing defect in the material of the Aluminum / Alloy rim. ---- If the rim is machined improperly, where the tire seals against the rim, then there is a manufacturing defect in the process associated with rim construction. ----- IT DOES NOT MATTER to me as the customer, because I paid for a vehicle, and I expect a level of quality that equals other vehicles in the same price range both foreign and domestic. ----- (THERE IS AN "EXPECTATION OF QUALITY" ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PURCHASE!) ---- I expect "quality" for my money, because I give my customers quality for their money! ---- GM is free to make any decision that they want in relation to this issue, and I am free to share my opinion based on the facts that I have collected and my daily experience with this vehicle. ---- I would like to meet with a GM / Chevrolet Representative to seriously discuss this issue. ----- GM needs every customer at this point in time! ---- I would love to write a "posting" on this forum saying that GM has solved the problem with my LTZ Malibu! ---- That is my goal!

    Thank you again for your time and concern with regards to this issue. It is always good to hear everyone's opinion. This is what makes this forum GREAT! By sharing ideas we can focus in on the problem, and come up with solutions.

    Best regards. ---------- Dwayne :shades: :confuse: ;):)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited January 2011
    Note - OEM tires are always either vastly inflated in price as part of the tire/rim package or are simply whatever they could put on and save money while doing it. Brand doesn't make much difference. Brakes and struts are similar - most OEM stuff is mediocre at best.

    1 - Concerning the tire pressure, the fact is that with any tubeless tire, they will always settle into the PSI that is appropriate based upon the weight of the vehicle and geometry of the rim. Excess air will simply bleed out until the internal pressure and the tire's material come into equilibrium. Given that many vehicles are heavier than ever before, it's likely to cause more of this effect. If anything, blame the low profile tires that they put on extremely heavy front ends.

    2 - You should go by what the manufacturer recommends and never on what it says on the tire. Case in point - I had an old 4Runner. Front was supposed to be 26 and the rear 34. The tires always said 35PSI but would handle like junk and wear wrong unless I set them to what it said on the sticker on the door. What it says on the tire is the maximum recommended pressure and it's just fine to run them a few PSI lower if the vehicle's suspension and/or rims require it. Also, for instance, if you're on snow or other poor surfaces. Lowering your PSI on your snow tires by 5 -10 PSI temporarily can make a world of difference. Virtually no tire that I know of will pop its bead unless you're running at least 15PSI or lower.

    3 - He's seriously wasting the dealer's time over 2PSI? Give the poor overworked people a break and just deal with it. Unless the tires are wearing bald on the edges, it's fine.

    4 - Yes, engines burn and/or leak some oil. They always have.
  • bdymentbdyment Member Posts: 573
    Dwayne For your peace of mind why don't you just check the tires after the dealer has inflated them to 30psi. Yes there could be a variance between the on board display and the hand held gauge. For instance the average mpg reported by various makes of autos often does not agree with a manual check of fuel mileage.

    Another suggestion is to slightly over inflate the four tires to 32 or 33psi for a few weeks. This will often seat a tire against the rim and stop a small lose of air. The suggestions that people have given you is exactly what a dealer will do to check a faulty tire or rim.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    I don't know how far you drive to get to the dealer but if the tires are warm, filling them with air won't be all that accurate. They should be filled when they are cold.

    Oil changes at 2500? Wow. I guess that I won't suggest that you do a Google search on the 3000 mile oil change myth. ;)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    On oil, it depends.

    The first oil change should be done at 100 miles if the engine is using conventional oil and is an older design. The reason is because new formulations don't have enough zinc and phosphorous in the last 2-3 years and older designs (the V8 in a Ford Mustang is a good example) were designed with high zinc oil in mind. You need to swap it out in that case. And, the initial grime from the new engine is also nice to get out. If it is a modern design, it's fine to wait to 3K and then change like normal at 3-6K after that as long as it isn't recycled oil. Conventional oil fails gradually and even when it is extremely old, will still provide some protection. Stabilizers like Lucas and similar can extend the life substantially in extreme conditions.

    ie - if I bought a new Grand Marquis with that ancient 4.6 V8 in it, or say, a GM car with a pushrod engine, I'd immediately dump the oil and put high zinc racing oil in it for the first couple of changes to help harden the internal parts and get the rings seated properly. With an engine like the Ecotec, modern low zinc oils will likely be just fine.

    For synthetic, though, it's trickier. The issue is that synthetic "oil" is really just viscous goo with a bunch of anti-wear additives added. IF (no, WHEN) the additives fail, it fairly quickly fails and has the lubricating properties of water(engine eats itself in short order). This is such a potential disaster that Cadillac and several other manufacturers are now telling owners that they should change at 6K no matter what the oil life monitor says.

    The first change should be at half the normal interval or 6 months after manufacture if it's been sitting on the lot that long before being sold in any case. Sitting for a year in the corner of the lot with 30 miles on it is asking for a problem.

    So there are really three factors at work. New vs old engine design, normal vs synthetic oil, and high vs low zinc.
  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Hi

    Simply put, ---- "oil and filters are cheap maintenance, ----- engines are expensive!" ----- I always have this service performed at the selling dealer, so that all my service records are at one location. ---- I can then travel all over the country, and have my service records follow me through computer science, ----- should there be a warranty issue on the road! ---- It keeps my life "stupid simple!" ---- Extended oil and filter services are over-rated! --- (Nice idea but not practical in the "real world!) ---If you check the "net" you will see engine sludge issues in name plates such as Chrysler, VW, & Toyota. ----- By having my vehicle serviced frequently, I can have my fluids and tire pressure monitored. ----- This is why I am so annoyed at the tire pressure issue on this vehicle! ----- Chevrolet has a quality car in the Malibu, but they miss the little things that would make it GREAT and OUTSTANDING, ----- (like high quality tires!) ----- QUESTION: ----- How much more would it cost to put a set of "Michelin fuel efficient tires" on this vehicle, --- recognizing that they purchase large quantities for their assembly line? ---- Their MPG increase would be an additional "selling tool" for future vehicles in the marketplace! ----- Cheap is NOT always better! ----- I was ready to consider purchasing an additional Chevrolet vehicle, when I turn in my 2007 XLE V6 Camry (2012), but now I need to really re-think this decision. ----- I cannot get 30mpg from a four cylinder engine and a 6 speed automatic transmission, ------- yet I can get 30+ mpg on a V6 Camry with a 6 speed automatic trans. ------ (The Camry has Michelin tires!) ----- I am still waiting for a response from the GM factory representative that monitors these boards! ----- My vehicle is paid in full, so as such, I could "bit the bullet" and trade it for a foreign name plate, --- or I could I could advertise my dissatisfaction with these tires with magnetic signs on the vehicle. ---- (I am sure that GM would consider that very unprofessional on my part, but it is "ok" to equip the vehicle with low quality tires.) ------ The MSRP on this vehicle was $30,000.00! --- (I did not pay close to this.) ---- For that MSRP, (on a Toyota), I would have original equipment Michelin tires, and I would not have to adjust their pressure on a weekly basis! ---- QUESTIONS: --- What is wrong with wanting quality for the money spent? ---- Because of these tires, I AM NOT getting the posted mileage numbers. ----- Does GM care? ---- The answer to that question is "NO," because if they wanted to get maximum MPG from this vehicle they would install fuel efficient tires on this vehicle from the factory. -----

    Thank you for sharing the information on engine oil. ---- I learn a lot of background information. ----- This is what makes these forums GREAT! ---- There are a lot of people out there in the computer world who have important information, and who are willing to share it in an open forum.

    Best regards. ----------------- Dwayne :shades: ;):) :sick:
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    I would encourage everyone to look at the scientific data about oil changes and then decide. There are environmental and political issues about using oil unnecessarily. I wouldn't want people to think that changing oil at 2500 - 3k is the only option if one wants to take care of one's engine.

    As for new engines, check your manufacturer's recommendations. As an example, Honda puts an additive (molybdenum) in their engines from the factory that helps get rid of the small metal filings in new engines. They suggest that you wait until 5000 miles for that first oil change.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Don't bother...he likes doing this. I would at least go by what the manufacturer suggests for oil change intervals since they built it. If you can't trust them, maybe one should buy a different car. The tires loosing some air in a month is nothing to get excited about. The Malibu is not a defective car at all, it just doesn't live up to the "personal qualifications" that this poster wants...personally, this person had the knowledge & opportunity before he bought a 4 cylinder car to know what would better suit his needs. Coming from an Accord & Camry with their great engines, perhaps some more homework was needed.

    When anyone talks about anything "legal", it will be very tough to prove that your qualifications make this car unsafe or whatever position you claim. Your standards are higher for things like oil changes & how much air is acceptable for a tire to loose every month. The "normal standards" for this particular car are what the engineers chose for peak & most economical performance. Doubt highly that the manufacturer deceived you in any way.

    Think also we have some buyers remorse going on here also. The 4 cylinder engine was just not the right engine for you period, as I'm sure it works correctly up to it's specifications. I'd talk with the dealer & just see how the situation can be rectified to put you into a 6 cylinder model with tires you prefer with as little $ coming out of your pocket. Some personal responsibility has to be taken on your part if the car didn't live up "to your standards" as yours will be different than mine or other posters in these forums.

    So just talk with your dealer politely & "fix" the situation...period, so you can just move on...you've created unnecessary aggravation for yourself here!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

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