What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

plekto · April 2011

You kept your last car for 11 years and 240K miles. Why wouldn't you consider an ex-program car or similar with 3-6K on it for the same price as a "new" Accord? As long as it's never been a rental, and is only a few months old, you'll never know the difference between brand new.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - - - gId=59562450
With only 3600 miles on it, it's their loss of 5K in depreciation and taxes.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/used-car-deals-program-cars-rental-cars-salvag- - - e-titles.html

Program cars are perhaps the best hidden gem in the industry that most people don't know about. They represent the best of the best CPO models as they were never used by a rental agency and were scrupulously maintained and used by some executive of the company or similar.

Usually there are only a few hundred every year in the entire U.S., as well. They go quickly and are usually incredibly rare to actually find for sale.

tallman1 · April 2011

Don't worry about pressure to consider something else. No matter what advice people ask around here, there is always someone who wants to introduce something else into the mix... no matter how clear you make it.

One consistent thing most people say about mid-sized sedans these days is that you really can't go wrong with any of them. There are plenty of people who shake their heads whenever they hear someone complain about the Accord's alleged "slip in quality." There are others who say that the (fill in the blank) generation of Accord was the worst because they had a bad experience.

Likewise, there are plenty who shake their head when they hear about the past reputation of anything made by Hyundai. And there are others who think their old model was the best car they ever owned.

As I said before, ANY car can have problems. If I were in your shoes, I'd take reliability out of the mix at this point and really examine which car you'd rather drive for ten years. Perhaps that may help you know what will really make you happy, be it handling, comfort, looks, etc. The more I read and hear, the less I'm concerned about the reliability of most anything in this segment.

aviboy97 · April 2011

I really think Acura's perception as a luxury brand is overrated. They are nothing more than a glorified Honda and they do not offer much more in refinement or detail than a Honda does.

Brands like Lexus and Infiniti are much different than their non-luxury counterparts.

While an Acura is an excellent car and they do have good build quality, the price they command is not warranted, IMO.

plekto · April 2011

In Japan, all Hondas are sold as Hondas. They split the line into two for the U.S. market. But the cars are the same for the most part. The current Accord is the Accord in Japan and the TSX in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Accord_%28Japan_and_Europe_eighth_generation%- - - 29
This is what the rest of the world gets when they buy an Accord.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Inspire
Since 2007, this is what we've had as the "Accord" in the U.S. It is a step down from the Accord in Japan and feels like a slightly cheaper car than the previous generation Accord to many.

Honda Inspire "Accord" EX - 190 HP @7000, 162 lb·ft @4400 rpm
Honda Accord "TSX" - 201 HP @ 7000 rpm, 170 @ 4300 rpm
Better interior and better engine as well, as expected.

Kirstie_H · April 2011

Question - have you driven either or both of these vehicles? I didn't go back to your original post, but taking a drive in each of them might swing your opinion one way or the other.

If I knew I was likely to buy a new vehicle and keep it for many years, I'd probably be more interested in the Sonata just because of the long warranty.

yelnats11 · April 2011

get a 3 series BMW instead.

sjack1 · April 2011

I'm going to buy a brand new red 2011 Accord Ex-L. I'm paying $23,589 plus ttl. I'm told that is a good price. I'm picking it up tonight. I was seriously considering the Sonata and I do think it is a very good vehicle but I could get the Accord with the same trim level for essentially the same price. With the lower insurance costs and the .9% financing, and the higher resell value (should I ever decide to trade up), it just made sense to stick with Honda, which was my original plan. Just wish they had a better warranty, but one can't have everything. Thank all of you for your responses and input -- it really helped me make my decision.

backy · April 2011

Hope you get as many years of good service out of your new Accord as the old one! It does seem like a very good price for that car.

tallman1 · April 2011

I'm going to buy a brand new red 2011 Accord Ex-L.

Congrats! And thanks for keeping us updated.

You are paying below invoice and below Edmunds' TMV so it seems like a pretty good deal to me... unless there was a trade involved.

I'm sure you will be happy with your purchase. I hope we see you hanging around in the Accord forums.

dispencer2 · May 2011

I have a friend who buys a new CTS every couple of years. His 2003 rode like a truck - very stiff. The later models rode better. He does road trips and rarely gets 25 mpg. I may consider the new XTS in a couple of years. The Accord is fine and so is a Camry. I have rented several Malibus in the last year and liked all of them. I never really had a problem passing as long as you plan where and when. It is not a Northstar but does the job. I like the Malibu because it has a smooth, soft, ride, is comfortable for a long 6 or 7 hour day on an interstate, and got more than 30 on the road.

The new 2012 or 13 Malibu just shown at the NY Auto Show will probably cause me to wait until I can drive one before buying either it or a leftover 2011. Unfortunately it has that stupid touch screen for the radio. My wife's Traverse has one and I much prefer just a normal radio. I don't want Navigation anyway. I'll wait and see what models are available, options, prices, etc. Hopefully Chevrolet will release some information soon other than just photos.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

could some of you with used vehicle purchasing knowledge/experience help out a new-to-the-US fella who's looking for a vehicle in the $8-10K range?

He's over here: Purchasing Used Vehicles

While he's not limited to sedans, I know that some of you are very good at helping others spend their money

(wisely, of course).

angel1955 · May 2011

I have a 2005 Mazda 3 that seems to have a intermittent problem when starting. From time to time the car will not start, and yet at other time it crank up okay. The battery, and the starter have been replaced. One particular dealer where i had the car worked on stated that battery cable needs to be replaced. They are stating that someone cross the battery, and that this has blown the fuse in the battery cable causing the problem. Actually this is not true because the problem come and goes. The cost the dealer wants to charge me for the replacement of the cable is about $1200.00 big ones. There is an actual bulletin out by Mazda, Bulletin 01-037/08, not sure if anybody knows if this is a fix for the problem. It appears as indicated in the bulletin that its may cost last than $50.00 to fix. Please help.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

Hi - this discussion is for people trying to decide which sedan to buy. You'll probably have better luck in our Mazda3 Maintenance & Repair discussion. Just click on my link to hop over there and post your issue.

djm2 · May 2011

After owning this vehicle for almost a year, I have the following comments:

1.) The "fit and finish" of the vehicle is outstanding.

2.) The vehicle drives very much like my old 2003 4 cylinder Honda Accord.

3.) There is "quality" in this vehicle!

4.) The 6 speed automatic transmission operates very efficiently.

5.) The engine has "adequate power," ---- but it could use a little more HP. (Maybe a larger 4 cylinder engine 2.7)

6.) The engine could use a Turbo as an option.

7.) The vehicle could use a bigger fuel tank.

8.) The MPG are not as advertised. ----- The only way that I can break 30 mpg is by traveling at 55mph on the highway. ----- This is not always possible, when the posted speed limit is 65mph. ----- (My 2007 V6 Camry XLE get 30+ mpg at 65 mph easily.) ----- The four cylinder engine appears to be working hard at 65 mph. ----- While the engine is capable of powering the vehicle to 80+ mph, it is wound out at about 70 mph.

9.) The Original Equipment Tires are not quality tires. ------ They a "cheap!" ----- I changed my tires to Michelin. --- Now the vehicle handles like a high quality vehicle!

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN WITH THIS VEHICLE!

General Motors has done an outstanding job designing this vehicle, now they need to make some changes to make it an OUTSTANDING VEHICLE that could go "head to head" with with a Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry.

General Motors needs to refine the four cylinder engine. ----- It needs more HP, and it must get better mileage. ----- It needs more "reserve power" in the "top end" for passing! ------ (GM needs to look at the four cylinder Honda Accord Engine as an example!)

NOTE:
I enjoy driving this vehicle, and I am not sorry that I made the purchase. (I have an outstanding dealer!) ---- I would look at another Malibu in the future, but I would hope that GM would make some changes. ---- The V6 engine would give the necessary power, but it does not deliver the mileage like the Camry. ----------- (QUESTION: ---- Why can't an American Vehicle Manufacturer design and build an efficient / powerful four cylinder engine like Toyota, & Honda?

BEST REGARDS TO ALL!

Dwayne :shades: :confuse:

igozoomzoom · May 2011

I think GM's 2.4L (and Ford 2.5L, which is actually Mazda's 2.5L) are reasonably competitive, but they are hobbled by their 6-speed automatic transmissions! With anything less than a deliberately heavy foot on the gas, their only mission is to get into 6th gear and stay there! The last rental I had was a Chevy Equinox and it annoyed the crap out of me.

For example, I could be stopped at a red light behind other cars. When it turned green, I could only start to ease forward at the rate of the idiot in front me. In a few seconds, he/she would realize that they're moving at a glacial pace and start accelerating like a normal person. By then, we're moving at 30mph and the Equinox was in 4th gear racing for 5th....it was caught flat-footed and the only remedy was to floor it...then start counting to pass the time, "one, Mississippi; two, Miss..." and finally, a downshift from 4th or 5th down 2nd, followed by varying degrees of forward thrust! That is, if you don't recoil in fear at the noise and vibration generated by the engine revving instantly to 6000rpm+...the Ford is even worse than I've described!

plekto · May 2011

The normal solution for this is to put a small I-6 engine in it(2.5L or so) to give it better torque and more HP.

The proper solution, though, is to get it with manual. This increases the driving characteristics and acceleration in traffic to almost twice as quick, especially when merging, passing, or zipping into a gap in traffic (which the automatic simply won't do at all, at least not safely) The automatic further complicates things with extra weight and a good 10-20% parasitic losses that the manual doesn't have.

It's a typical GM automatic in that it has two modes: 0-60 in 15-20 seconds in normal driving and 0-60 in the advertised time only if you flog it as hard as you can. (ie - might as well have a toggle switch set at 25% and 100% for a gas pedal for all the good trying to get it to move quickly will do you)

If you want your Cruze to feel like it has a turbo or a 6 cylinder engine, get stick.

djm2 · May 2011

Having driven a four cylinder automatic 2003 Honda Accord, (for 3+ years), I have a basis of comparison between the Malibu's four cylinder and that of the Honda.

The following are the keys points:

1.) The four cylinder Honda could easily achieve 30mpg on the highway, at legal highway speeds. (My four cylinder Malibu requires me to drive at 55mph in order to break 30 mpg, yet it is advertised to get 33mpg. ----- This is not just my vehicle. ----- This complaint is all over the "net" with regards to this issue. ---- But GM does not seem to be concerned about this minor glitch!)

2.) The four cylinder Honda had plenty of reserved power at highway speeds for passing. ------- (While the Malibu four cylinder is "adequate," it could use more reserve power for passing at highway speeds!) ---- The Malibu engine is not as refined as the Honda engine.

3.) The seating in the Malibu is more comfortable than that of the Honda.

4.) I have the LTZ Malibu. Since it has the four cylinder engine it only has one exhaust. From a design point of view, the vehicle would look much sharper if had a dual exhaust system. ----- (They could have split the single exhaust at the rear of the vehicle to get this look.) ---- A nice touch in terms of image, would be a "slight rumble in the exhaust," like a Ford Mustang. (Nothing too loud, just a little feel / sound of power!)

5.) The design of the vehicle is outstanding. This is a "home run" for General Motor, and this could put them back into the automotive marketplace in a "big way!" ---- General motors needs to redesign / improve their four cylinder engine offerings. ---- (If Honda can produce a four cylinder that offers good mileage and performance, why can't General Motors accomplish the same goal? ----- Don't we have talented automotive engineers working for American companies? -----)

6.) The original equipment tires on the Malibu are of a very poor quality. -- (They do not hold air!) ----- I replaced them with Michelin tires, and I no longer have the air loss issue. (The Honda Accord comes with Michelin tires.) ----- GM did nothing to assist me with the replacement cost of these defective tires, and I am NOT happy with this issue!

Best regards.
Dwayne :shades: :confuse:

wik82 · May 2011

Hi all I'm new here. I've been looking for a new car for about a month. I'm not in DIRE need (current car hasn't broken down or anything) but I am trying to narrow my choices. I had been holding out for a BMW 3-series but setting that aside, I came upon 4 cars I am considering (All are used models, from "07-'11):

Cruze
Jetta
Altima
Accord

The cruze is just something I stumbled onto. I only added it to the list because I have yet to narrow it from the list lol. I have done zero research. The interior looks nice and the 36 MPG is attractive. That is the extent of my knowledge. Thing is, it is such a new model I don't know if I can realistically find a used one.

The Jetta was the car I initially was looking at when I started poking around. I have heard nothing but good things about them. I like the looks, the apparent quality etc etc.

Altima seems to be the top contender right now. I love the Jetta, but as far as gas...it can't compete with the Altima....right?! The Altima gets 3 more miles per gallon and has a 5.5 gallon larger capacity than the Jetta. Altima's also seem to have a good amount of bells and whistles but I REALLY want one with a sunroof as well and it seems to be more difficult to find these, especially compared to Jetta's which almost all seem to have sunroofs!

I have a close personal friend who works at a Honda dealership. I don't know how much he can/will help me, but all that aside the accord doesn't seem to be much different than the Altima. Keep in mind i have not test driven any of these (yet). The accord edges the Altima in MPG but has a smaller gas tank. It seems the Accord has alot of nice interior stuff, leather seats etc but again, the question of the sunroof pops up...how common are they on Accords and how long am I going to be pulling my hair out looking for one. It SEEMS to me that the Accord and Altima are virtually the same cars, just depends on the selected features and such of each individual car that separates them...

So, can anyone shed light on this? Make comments, give info and suggestions to me in regards to these cars? How they stack up with each other? Prior experiences. I have been doing alot of reading here as I just joined but thought I might as well make this topic to get specific feedback I am looking for. Also, can anyone comment on insurance costs? Thanks ahead of time for all constructive comments! Take care

plekto · May 2011

Compared to a 3 series or even a used C class, these will all be a massive let-down because they are not really luxury brands, don't drive the same, and aren't RWD.

IMO, instead of a 2007 3 series, you might look at a 2005 Lexus IS300. This was the last year and as such, it's all but bulletproof. With a ~3250lb weight, though, it drives like a late 90s 3 series, but with Toyota reliability. You'll never regret buying one. Assuming that you don't hold out for the 3 series, though the recent models are quite heavy. You might be better off with a used 1 series.

note - an IS350 is a whopping 3650lbs, give or take. The newer 3 series are almost as heavy. They somehow lost that small sport sedan magic over the years as they got larger and larger.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - gId=53002483
The same price as a typical entry level sedan. Given that the car was designed to last 250-300K+ miles, the mileage isn't even worth worrying about.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=297865653
This is what I'd chose, myself, but that's because with manual, these really are as close as Japan ever got to equaling a BMW.

wik82 · May 2011

Thanks so much for the reply. I had looked at Lexus but was checking out the IS250 instead. Not much around me though. Thing is, I don't want RWD. I'm in Ohio where we get the worst of summers and the worst of winters. RWD is notoriously bad for the winter. FWD or AWD is the way to go, for me at this point.

The BMW/Lexus issue is at the very top of my price range. So if I can get one, COOL. If not though, I don't want to pigeon hole myself into a massive payment with a car that has no or little warranty and something goes wrong, and suddenly it costs me $1,000 to replace a water pump, just as an example. That is why I listed the 4 other models above. I am calling to find out insurance costs for all of these models, to see if that swings the deal or not.

Kirstie_H · May 2011

I'm not sure whether you're looking at new or used Jettas, but I would be wary if it's not new due to numerous electrical issues that we see reported over & over. I had one, and it was a BLAST to drive, and my individual vehicle had few problems (however, many owners reported pretty serious & expensive electrical issues... I got lucky). A new one might be better, and of course it comes with a warranty.

Altima - make sure you drive the exact vehicle you're planning to purchase. We've seen a number of complaints about the performance of the CVT transmission. Not sure if it's a "problem," per se, or a dislike of how the technology causes the vehicle to perform even if it's performing normally.

You're clearly a smart shopper. Don't see too many people who go into the process with so many practical considerations, and with the knowledge that there is no "one true car" - if you take your time, you'll find the right vehicle at the right price instead of getting your heart set on ONE car and sacrificing financial and maintenance considerations just to have it.

wik82 · May 2011

Kirstie, thanks so much for the reply. In regards to the Jetta, I had been looking at the '07-'10 models of Jetta. I have heard that the new '11 Jettas are getting some real bad reviews. More or less that VW went cheap, the quality of the Jetta was severely compromised etc etc. Can anyone comment on that? That has been the real reason I didn't even consider a new one. Pretty much every car, with the exception of the Cruze would be all used. Cruze seems to just be too new to find used for any real "discount".

I had heard the Altima having "performance" issues with the CVT transmission. But I also read that many think it works fine, just doesn't have the "punch" that some people THINK it should have. I meant a guy who works for an auto auction company and he specializes in cars coming off lease. He said he can find me pretty much anything I want in a fairly short period of time. Because they normally sell to the dealerships though, he also said he could offer a similar car at a much cheaper price. Seemed like a real straight shooter, but I always like to keep my guard up, just in case.

As far as the "one" car for me. I don't think there is such a thing. From what I am finding out Altimas and Accords are pretty much the same, just different companies. A 3-series is great looking, in my opinion, but so is the Lexus IS250. I figure if I am going to get into debt, I might as well get what I want, within reason though. No point in not being able to buy clothes and food, just to have a BMW hahaha

wik82 · May 2011

Just as an update, the insurance is leading me towards the Jetta, ALtima and Accord. BMW is much MUCH higher, more so than I expected and I didn't even bother asking about the Lexus after I heard about the BMW.

Jetta came in at the lowest of the 3, Accord, then Altima. They are all close though and not a major difference that would force one of these models out of the discussion.

Being that I have only ever had 2 cars my entire life, I am unsure about car buying etiquette. Is it normal, acceptable, standard for someone to go to a local dealership and ask to test drive a certain model, even knowing that they have ZERO intention of buying at that moment? I was considering going to test drives these cars but I am not yet in the position, 100% to buy yet. Is it poor taste of me to go try one and then just thank them and leave? Comments welcome...

tallman1 · May 2011

the question of the sunroof pops up...how common are they on Accords

You shouldn't have any trouble finding an Accord with a sunroof. Honda simplifies their trimlines to the point where there aren't really any options. If it is an EX, you have a moonroof.

If you are looking at used, you may discover that the Accord will be pricey because Honda's have very high resale values. Be sure to compare it to new.

I'm not so sure you will find the Accord and Altima all that similar when you take a close look and drive them. Good luck in your search! Let us know how it works out.

tallman1 · May 2011

I was considering going to test drives these cars but I am not yet in the position, 100% to buy yet.

Nothing wrong with being honest. Just tell them that you are in the market and plan on buying within a month, two months, or whatever. There may be pressure from some sales people to "buy today" but a reputable store will respect your shopping needs.

plekto · May 2011

That's the problem, though. All 3 series are RWD or RWD biased by design, so you're kind of stuck. If you have to have AWD, be aware that only full-time 4WD/AWD systems are actually useful for bad roads as they react too slowly to deal with snow and ice and rain and so on at moderate speeds. They are designed to help get you un-stuck and that's about it. If it's part-time or transfers power back and forth, it's not going to make you one bit safer in the winter.

But, that said, I've lived with RWD for years, and stability control is what saves your bacon. My best friend has a 4Runner with stability control and it will keep him from sliding out on gravel and loose dirt - stuff that is as bad as snow in terms of traction. You get about 20% side-ways and it reels you back in. On a 5000+lb SUV, no less.

But it's nothing compared to what snow tires will do for you. Snow tires and stability control in a RWD car will obliterate any AWD system with normal tires.

Get RWD. Get stability control. Get winter tires. You'll be fine. And you'll have your 3 Series that you want. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s
10mph on ice - 47ft vs 21ft stopping difference. Why I also chose this was because they happened to use a modern 3 series. With the right tires, a 3 series is perfectly safe. After all, Germany has.. um.. yeah, winters that are easily on par with Ohio. And you don't hear about Mercedes and BMW owners crashing all the time over there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfvyPtYR0Y&NR=1
More BMW 3 series fun in snow.

djm2 · May 2011

Hi All:
I have looked at the Nissan Vehicles a number of times over the years, but pushed them to the side for two reasons. ----1st.) The CVT transmission. ----- and ----- 2nd.) The quality of the Nissan Dealers in my part of the country. ---- The Nissan dealers are one step up from a Chrysler dealer, (both are "bottom feeders" in the automotive retail business, with VERY poor service reputations!) ----- If I cannot get "high quality service" in a timely manner, I do not want to own the product! ----- While the Malibu could use a more powerful 4 cylinder engine (169hp), like the Buick Lacross (182hp), it is a very nice vehicle. ------- My LTZ four cylinder Malibu is almost one year old, and it has 13,000 miles. ------ The original equipment tires were of a VERY POOR QUALITY, and I replaced them with Michelin Tires. ---------- This eliminated the "air leak problem," and improved the handling quality of the vehicle. ------- (General Motors knows about the "quality problem" of the original equipment tires, but chooses to do nothing about it, which is what I will remember when searching for a replacement vehicle for my 2007 XLE Camry in late 2012. ---- "IF" I purchase another GM vehicle, the dealer will install Michelin tires as part of the deal, or there will be no deal! ------- I will walk, and purchase another Camry! ---- (The Toyota Dealer has already contacted me and wanted me to trade for a 2011, but I am not ready at this point in time) -------- Best regards. ------- Dwayne :shades: :confuse:

wik82 · May 2011

Thanks to everyone who has put together the excellent info/opinions and feedback.

I am curious if anyone can explain the CVT issue? I have read that some people don't like it. Feel it is not responsive. Stuff like that. Dwayne, is that specifically what you are referring to, or...???

I hear alot about the CVT trany, but if I go with an automatic, doesn't that solve the issues? Or IS the CVT the automatic? I will admit, that has been one thing I didn't do much research on...please please please, someone let me know about this!

backy · May 2011

I have a 2010 Sentra with the CVT and overall I like it, for two reasons:

* Smooth driving: almost a "turbine" feel--no perception of shifting as with a conventional automatic.

* Low revving: This is the only car I've ever owned that revs lower while in gear than in idle. When puttering along around 35-40 mph, it will be at about 1100 RPMs, but in idle it's around 1200 RPMs. This translates to very good fuel economy--better than the EPA estimates. I can hit 40 mpg on the highway at 65-70 steady cruise, and low 30s in town in good weather (I'm at 33.6 mpg right now on a half-tank). At 70 mph, it's at 2000 RPMs--very low for a 2.0L, 140 hp engine. And low revs translate to low noise when cruising along.

The CVT has a 10-year, 120,000 mile warranty. Not sure when that was put into place, however.

If you want responsive shifting, get a 2007 Accord with the 5-speed stick. Great shifter, and IMO more fun to drive than the 2008-present generation.

wik82 · May 2011

guys, I just got back from test driving an Accord. A good friend of mine is a Honda salesman so I went to talk to him and took one for a test drive. It was very nice, the interior was great. Seemed to have pretty friendly controls.

Tomorrow or Wednesday I will go try the Altima.

One "wild card" that came up though, was the Kia Optima. It was something I had not really looked into but before I get any sneering people who won't consider Kia as a possibility just because they aren't in the annals of car history, it seems to be pretty solid. The MPG for the automatic (34) is similar to Altimas(32) and Accords(34).

Lots of features you can add. The Optima has 15-25 more HP in the engine than the Accord and Altima (Optima is 200, Altima is 175 and Accord is 190).

The sunroof that I desire that seems to be a gamble to find on Altimas is ever present in Accords and Optimas. The local Kia dealership has a professional review that was done for Optimas which gives it very good reviews and suggests that it is, without doubt, rival to an Accord, or Altima.

Can anyone support or dismiss this? Preferably someone with experience and not just "I have an Accord, it is better than an Optima because it's Honda". I would love to hear tangible, constructive opinions. Thanks!

plekto · May 2011

I'll add my top FWD pick to the list:
Go test drive a 2007 LaCrosse CXS. This will obliterate the other cars on your short list in terms of how it drives.

- Cadillac CTS engine. Turned for torque instead of HP in this case, the VVT reaches its plateau (essentially near) maximum torque at a staggeringly low 1500RPM.
- Cadillac CTS suspension, or as close as makes no difference.
- Buick interior. Say what you will, but Buick and Cadillac interiors *are* quite nice compared to the imports, lately.
- Gobs of options standard and a really low used price.
*note - avoid the non CXS - it doesn't have the same engine OR suspension*

I've driven all of the FWD cars on your list and none of them are as good for the price.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - gId=57916794

It sold new for about $35K with options added four years ago. It easily outclasses the other sedans as a result, much how a used C class beats a new Accord (it darn well should for the price difference!)

240HP@6000/ 225lb-ft Torque@2000 (~90% of that @1500), 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

backy · May 2011

I thought you were looking at used cars? A used 2011 Optima might be hard to find.

Kia has come a long way. People who review cars for a living give it high marks. If based on your test drives you like it better than the Altima and Accord... why not? One wildcard is that Kias have historically had poorer resale than Honda and Nissan. But if you're going to keep this car for several years, that's not too important.

wik82 · May 2011

Backy,

thanks for the info. I HAD been looking at used. But (at least locally) KIA is offering some very low lease rates and such. The several times I have talked to someone about leasing they have said "if you go over the miles you will be murdered". I trust them on that BUT I have a 2000 that has 110,000 miles on it. That is pretty much spot on the 12.5k miles/year most lease offers seem to give. Then I would have the option to buy it outright..buy something else outright or lease something new....

I still feel the used market is where I am best suited, but I don't want to rule anything out, 100%. I always want to keep the door open for potential! And the Optima seems to stack up well with the other used cars I am considering.

tallman1 · May 2011

If you are going the lease route, do your homework to find out if a lease is right for you. Don't be tempted by being able to get into a car for less money than if you buy.

IMHO, you will do much better financially by buying used than leasing new.

plekto · May 2011

I'd personally take a used Buick over a new Kia any day.

$15K will get you a good vehicle and after a few years, you'll own it outright. My father's Park Avenue still runs fine at 15 years old. I can guarantee that a Hyundai isn't as well built. Nor will it have the features, safety equipment, HP, or interior of a Buick (or similar).

The best thing that you can do is to always get a 3-5 year old car and let the other person eat the initial depreciation. Often you can get an upper-end or near luxury vehicle like this for the same money out of pocket as a typical new car lease on a budget economy car.

targettuning · May 2011

You cannot guarantee anything of the sort and not to confuse the person who started this discussion but most Hyundai's have all the features, safety equipment, hp or anything else you wish to bring up equal to, or in some areas, better than Buick. So, by all means consider Hyundai or Kia in your research. By the way I have a 16 year old Dodge that runs fine too @ 267,000 miles so other than showing cars are better than ever with regular maintenance that alone proves nothing. I am absolutely sure there are old Hyundai's running perfectly well around.

djm2 · May 2011

Hi Wik82:

The CVT Transmission is an automatic unit. (It is NOT dependable.)--- It suffers from rattling / chattering / grinding noise at low speeds, surging and complete failure at about 50 - to -60 K miles. It has a "HIGH Pitch Squeaking Noise while driving and accelerating slightly. (You will notice this with the window down.)

The Kia Vehicles and the Hyundai Vehicles are very nice, but in my part of the country, the dealers have a VERY POOR reputation in terms of service and sales. The lack basic people skills, so as such, I do not even consider these products. ---- In your part of the country this might be different! Take a look at these vehicles. The down side is that they lose value very quickly, so your need to purchase them at a deep discount! ---- If you plan to keep the vehicle for at least 6 years, you will do "OK!" ---- In any case, put a maximum Manufacturer's extended warranty on the vehicle, (in addition to the warranty that comes with the vehicle.) ------ DO NOT PURCHASE AN AFTER MARKET WARRANTY! -- This will protect you for the life of the vehicle. (I have an extended warranty on both my 2007 XLE V6 Camry and the 2010 LTZ 4 cylinder Malibu.)

Best regards. ---------- Dwayne :shades:

Kirstie_H · May 2011

I'll add to targettuning's recommendation and suggest that if you are at all attracted to the Optima (in comparison to Accord & Altima), you should check out the Sonata. IMO, it's a great car (if you buy model year 2006+).

wik82 · May 2011

Thanks for all the feedback.

A few comments since so many replies have been made!

I don't doubt that the Buick is great. But the aesthetics and the gas mileage are not what I am looking for. I mentioned the HP in the KIA vs the Altima and Accord simply because they have identical MPG. Getting something that has 250+ HP means nothing to me if the MPG takes a hit. No disrespect, no offense meant. I really am grateful for the comments from everyone but I just don't think this is what I am seeking.

Thanks for the information about the Altima CVT. Sounds bad...I definitely do NOT want to replace the transmission after 60k miles! I have gathered this is, more or less, a hit or miss situation with the CVT...but reality is simply that with the CVT we just can't tell how long and how well it will perform.

I looked into the Sonata, it does seem very nice. Thing is, it seems like I am going to have to pay 2k+ more for either the Optima or the Sonata just to get the sunroof, which is standard in the Accord....

Also, as has been mentioned, with the Korean cars, I am going to have to go new. Which is gonna be about 6 thousand more (Say used Accord is 16k, new Optima is gonna end up being at least 22) if i buy. Which is why I had at least considered leasing. It seems like alot of people are down on leasing and while i'm not saying it is for everyone, I don't think it is a bad option, for MY particular case.

Someone mentioned the awful Hyndaui/Kia customer service. Where are you from? I have heard some small dis-satisfaction about our local Kia dealer, but have also heard some good things. I have contacted the KIA dealership via e-mail but no reply yet. I live in Toledo, Ohio (NW Ohio). Can anyone comment on Taylor Kia?

plekto · May 2011

There's nothing wrong at all with Hyundai. But it is a known fact that Kia is their budget line and is not as well built nor as reliable. Also, a $30K car, when it was new, should stomp all over a $20K car from another manufacturer, just because of the extra materials and refinement. Nobody questions that a TSX is a better car than a Civic. Well, DUH - you get what you pay for. And the smart person buys the 3 year old TSX instead of a Civic. At least around where I live. Same price for more bling and a bit better image with the neighbors doesn't hurt, either

Worshiping MPG can be penny-wise and pound foolish. 27 vs 30 mpg is 3703 vs 3333 gallons over 100K miles. 370 gallons. Even at today's insane prices, it's about $1500 over 5-8 years for the average drive. If you drive 8-10K a year like I do, that's about $150 a year. Hardly worth worrying about.

The added insurance, taxes, registration, and depreciation on a new car is a fool's errand if there ever was one, compared to buying a CPO one a few years old. But you want something that is well enough built and depreciates quickly.

This is why domestics, since they depreciate more quickly, can be a better deal. It's dead-simple to get a 2007 GM or Ford car for $2K less than an import. That's your fuel difference and more (less sales tax, less insurance, etc - all adds up to a few hundred more over the years)

BUT... GM and Ford make engines that are actually among the most fuel-efficient on the planet, currently. Getting 27-30mpg highway out of a nearly 4000lb car is quite amazing, in fact. The new engine Ford has in its Mustang is incredible. 300HP and 29mpg highway. Kia has.. yeah, keep looking.

If you want your cake and want to eat it as well, there is one last choice that I would recommend :

A 2007 Honda Accord VP/SE with manual. This was a budget model with literally nothing on it. You could buy one new for about $19K and for a basic car to get around in, it was perfect. In terms of refinement, though, it was an Accord through and through. Just without the leather and fancy extras. But with ABS and the necessities, of course.

Also, the manual in it is the best one that I've driven for any car under $40K. Video game easy and precise as a rifle bolt. The Kia gearbox feels like a rubbery box of old parts by comparison. So do most Ford and GM manuals as well, to be un-biased. Even the gearbox on a CTS isn't as nice. Its main claim to fame, though, is that everything is servo-controlled, so it's not going to wear your leg out. I could teach a new driver how to drive one like a pro in an hour or two. Easiest manual that I've ever driven other than maybe a Porsche. (but for a Boxster's price, the gearbox had better be telepathic)

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - - gId=65092889
This is essentially the same thing as a VP with a better stereo. Honda has a superb certified program as well.

Cheap, reliable, and fantastic MPG. 23/31 with manual.(note - this is "new" MPG, the original on the window sticker was 24/34. 35mpg+ on long drives is easily possible. On regular gas as well.

This was also the last year of the previous model, so all the bugs were worked out.

****
Whew. thanks for putting up with me

wik82 · May 2011

Plekto,

Great info...do you test drive cars for a living? Seriously I'm just curious, plenty of people that post here know a heck of a lot more than I do...you seem to be one of them hahah

You mentioned Kia is the "budget line" of Hyundai? I just thought they were both Korean competitors...In the case of the Optima VS Sonata, are you saying the Sonata would be much better because it isn't the budget line, or...???

The CVT transmission thing is really scaring me about the Altima. It seems to be enough to really push me more in the direction of the Accord or Sonata/Optima.

I honestly think both Korean makes are pretty slick looking. A close friend got a new Elentra about 2 weeks ago. She was very pleased with the service she got and the deal. At least locally though, the Optima is on special for a 159/month lease while the Sonata is at 199/month (both 3 years). I e-mailed the Kia dealership, simply to open the lines of communication, yesterday and have yet to hear back from them. I am concerned about the potential lack of customer service.

My buddy who works at the Honda dealership won't let me go wrong if I go through them. I guess I just have to debate on if a lower monthly for a lease is better for me at this point, or if the buying used, with a higher monthly but ownership is best....pretty hard to decide.

backy · May 2011

Why do you think you need to go new with Hyundai/Kia? The previous-generation Sonata and Optima are good cars also, and used prices are very reasonable. I bought a 2007 Sonata GLS 18 months ago and it's been a great car. A lot of those 2006-2010 Sonatas came with a moonroof, even in the the low-end GLS trim.

I did mention the 2007 Accord with a stick a few posts back. My son just bought a 2007 Accord SE with a stick, 90k miles on it but in excellent condition, paid a little over $9k for it. I'm sure it has lots of miles left in it--looks nearly new inside and out, drives like new also. The SE doesn't have a moonroof, but you can get the Accord EX with a stick also (or automatic, your choice).

wik82 · May 2011

Backy,

I was under the impression, in the case of the Optima at least, maybe not the Sonata, that the new, redesigned model was far superior to the former ones. The Sonata isn't necessarily the same, but my mistake, I had thought the implication as far as the KIA was that they just recently started "picking it up" as far as quality and such.

plekto · May 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Kia_Automotive_Group

Hyundai is the parent company and as such is a bit like how Infiniti is to NIssan - just with budget cars. Years ago, Kia was its own company and was far ahead of Hyundai in quality. Hyundai bought them out, essentially flipped the brands around and used Kia's technology to help revitalize their vehicles. Now they are comparable to the other budget makes like Nissan and Mazda. But in all of this, Kia became the second class citizen, and if you know anything about Asian companies, the main brand is always superior (or to be more exact, the lower brand never is allowed to compete equally - there's always a few things de-tuned or missing from it)

My best friend and I used to spend weekends going around and test-driving cars for fun and also hanging out at local record stores, video arcades, pawn shops, and so on - all vintage/low-tech entertainment. Usually followed by a lunch at some place with more MSG than should be allowable by law

I still like to drive cars as a result, even years later. So when something new comes out, I test it thoroughly(sometimes both of us if he's in town).

I wish I could get paid to review cars. Because if it sucks, I'll tell you. But editors are so scared of losing ad revenue that "it was moderately quick" is about as close to "It was as slow as a snail on Prozac" as you'll ever read. :P

Back to cars... I've driven the new Elantra and it's OK - it feels like everybody else's basic box. Nothing bad, but it's a basic thing to get from point A to B. Zero feeling of fun to drive. Of course, a Buick and an Accord and most other stuff like that is also unimpressive to me. But among those basic machines, the best engines go to Honda and then GM and then Toyota. Everything else is 5th place or worse. The best transmissions are made by GM, then Ford, and a lot of GM transmissions are re-branded in imports as well (Honda makes their own automatics, though). Manuals, though, are pretty much each company. Honda and Mazda are the best of the basic makes, IME.

But none of these cars, while fine to get around in, feel like a BMW. Or a CTS. Or a G37. (this list is pretty much the list for Europe/U.S./Japan when it comes to entry level luxury sport sedans, btw) Myself, I've leearned to just save my pennies and always get the better car, even used, because I like driving and when you get in a car that makes you happy every time you sit in it, it's worth it. I've never felt that way in a Toyota. But I have in a Mercedes.

BTW, the best BMW 3 series ever was the E36. I'd honestly take a 99 M3 convertible over almost anything new on the market.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - - gId=54790460
Every time I check the price on one, I want it more.

For this price, I could live with the repair bills. The only thing comparable to it new would cost 50K+.

P.S. If you have a friend at a Honda dealership, you might get a good deal. Honda has leases that are very good. But most leases limit your miles and they will charge you for every tiny scuff when you turn it in. Even the Honda Accord lease is $9100 in payments over three years. And you're better off just owning a CPO for $15K at that price, since it'll easily be worth the $6K difference at 9 years old. Most leases aren't any better than owning - usually the only time it makes sense is on something that is expensive to repair, like a BMW or Mercedes if they are having a crazy promotion that month.

Your friend can find a 2007 CPO Accord with stick if you want for probably $15K. Get a good radio put in it for $300 and you're set.

backy · May 2011

Yes, the new Sonata and Optima are far superior to the former ones. But redesigns tend to be that way. That doesn't mean the former Sonata and Optima are bad cars. When the 2006 Sonata debuted in early 2005, Edmunds did a comparo against Accord and Camry, with all cars at a similar price point. Sonata won. Optima beat Camry in multiple comparos. The 2009-10 Optima is better than earlier years because it got standard ABS and ESC--those were hard to find on the Optima before 2009. For 2009, both cars got a 175 hp I4 and 5-speed automatic even in the base trim (was 162 hp and a 4AT before that). The Optima has a little tauter ride and handling than the Sonata. But the Sonata is a little bigger inside (that changed for the 2011 redesigns.) So you might find one more to your liking than the other.

If you can find a 2009-10 Sonata or Optima at a good price, they might be worth taking a look at. Another bonus is they have a 5-year, 60k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, so you might get some new-car warranty with that used car (I did with my used Sonata).

tallman1 · May 2011

First of all, you won't want an 07 Accord VP or SE (as was suggested) because they don't have a sunroof. You'd want an EX.

Secondly, the Sonata and Optima would be better deals used than new because of the huge hit in resale value. Hondas don't depreciate nearly as quickly. Backy is correct in that the Korean cars have come a long way in quality.

Finally, you probably won't want to take anyone's word for ride, comfort, etc. because we are all different. Some like soft and cushy, others prefer stiff and sporty. Judge for yourself when you take the test drives.

plekto · May 2011

So he should pay 3-4K more (used price) for a sunroof and some leather and bling? That's just silly. The advantage of the VP is that it is Hyundai cheap used and Honda quality.

The only differences between the VP and the normal lower model of the Accord (or Civic) is that it is missing two rear speakers (literally missing the speakers - everything is there to screw them into the brackets and attach the wires), has a basic radio ( aftermarket ones work better anyways and will be installed by the dealer or previous owner anyways), and is missing the rear sway bar ($150-$200 to do yourself - hardly makes a difference in how it drives).

Not bad for an average of $1500-$2000 off of a normal DX or LX.

tallman1 · May 2011

In several of his posts, he made it very clear that a sunroof was a top priority. I'm not judging anything, I'm just responding to what he said he wants. What you think is "just silly" doesn't matter. As a big fan of sunroofs, I guess that makes me silly too.

BTW, you don't need to have leather to get a sunroof in an Accord. The EX has cloth seats. And since the EX has the sunroof, there are a few more differences between the VP and the EX than speakers, a radio, and a sway bar.

djm2 · May 2011

Hi Wik82:
I am the person who discussed the public relations issues with Hyundai and Kia dealers. I live in North Jersey. There are two Hyundai dealers in my area. One is associated with a Chrysler Dealer, and one is a "stand alone dealership!" ---- Both have a reputation for "poor customer relations" and "poor service." ---- The Kia dealer, was a former Jeep dealership, with the same owners. In 1995, I leased a loaded / top of the line Jeep Grand Cherokee from this dealer that was the "vehicle from HELL!" (It lived in the service department!) This vehicle had electrical and drive train problems throughout the term of the lease. At the end of the lease, the dealer offered to lease me a new jeep at his cost. I rejected his offer, and went to a foreign name plate. So, as you can see, while I think Hyundai & Kia make beautiful vehicles in the upper end of their line, the dealers in my area prevent me from considering these products. This is the fault of the parent company. They do not put high enough demands on the dealership for "customer satisfaction" and "service excellence." ----------- Best regards. --------- Dwayne :shades:

Sandman6472 · May 2011

Be very leery when anyone mentions "fact" in here as it's really someone's "opinion"...nothing more...nothing less! What one perceives as a must have, others will disagree. That's why I run from folks who start talking about "facts" without mentioning it is really their "opinion" first. Having a Nissan CVT in the family since January '09, it takes a bit of adjustment as it isn't like a traditional automatic, it won't give the traditional burst of speed if needed due to the infinite gear ratios. One must just adjust their driving styles to compensate. Having to mash it to get on the freeway will be odd the 1st few times but in time, it shouldn't be a consideration. Overall though, it's been a great car for our daughter and keeps me on my toes when I do have to drive it.

I've bought used and one new car over the years and have been happy so far...being a more fiscally conservative buyer, I buy mid level autos to at least have some creature comforts and my new Civic, which I bought in '06, will be lasting me at least 10 years, G-d willing. I like the cars you are considering even though our preferences are for econoboxes due to our conservative values and the fact that we like $ to live our lives. A car is a necessary tool that we need to live with but it does not define who we are as people. We also have a '08 Hyundai for our other daughter and it's also a great ride and wonderfully dependabe so far.

You are lucky that you have someone at your Honda store who can steer you in the right direction. Just remember though that most "facts" are really "opinions" and an automobile is just a machine with some being lemons but most being reliable drives. And different people's experiences with a "bad dealership" is just that...it doesn't speak for the individual products it sells. You seem to be a very intelligent individual so I know you will make the best decision possible. Any purchase is a gamble but having as much knowledge as possible will ensure a positive outcome here.

Good luck and have some fun here!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles