What Car is Right For Me? Help Me Choose!

plekto · August 2012

Used, and low cost to maintain... You're left with four choices

1 - A Jeep Wrangler. Super cheap to keep running. Manual of course. Automatic and Chrysler are not to be said together.(except as a warning)
2 - A Crown Vic/Grand Marquis - Cheap to run, cheap to fix, and indestructible. Bad fuel economy, though.
3 - The lowest cost car to maintain/buy parts for of the imports in the last decade was a Toyota Celica with a manual transmission.
4 - A cheap Tacoma pickup truck with manual. Note - the Tacoma was 2nd lowest price to keep running. Of course, get 4X4. 4 cylinder engine only as well - the V6 is needlessly thirsty for a small gain in speed.

A lot of these "reliable" cars cost you an absolute fortune if something goes bad. A 2005 TSX is asking for a 4-6K repair bill for the transmission when, not if it goes bad. Most automatics die around 10-12 years old, IME. Manuals are often a simple clutch job and many sellers will get one done before they sell the vehicle if it's somewhat worn. (they can recoup most of the cost and sell it very quickly).

NOTE - no, I don't only like big GM cars - just they are super cheap if you have to have an automatic and want a highway cruiser*

bpizzuti · August 2012

Dude, he's looking at sporty compacts, and two of your four choices are trucks? And one is a full size rear drive BOF cruiser? What are you smoking, because I'm thinking of disconnecting from reality myself this weekend. :shades:

To the OP: check out used Subarus, they're almost as fun to drive as Mazdas, and AWD helps with both handling and winter traction (if that's a concern). Some of the older Honda Civics are decent in a "me too" way, but I'd go with a used Ford Focus first.

backy · August 2012

So get a stick TSX for cryin' out loud! They exist! And they're fun. I was only giving an example for budgetary reasons.

A Jeep Wrangler is NOT a sedan... it's not even a car.

A Celica is NOT a sedan. At least it's a car! Forget about carrying anyone bigger than a munchikin in back though.

A Tacoma is NOT a sedan... nor is it a "car".

And a Crown Vic has about as much in common with a 3 Series or Mazda3 as an oxcart has in common with a Porsche.

plekto · August 2012

Hi, I've been researching cars for a couple of months now but I just can't find one that meets my needs as far as fuel economy, look, and cost to maintain.

His overall goal is to get a good reliable vehicle.

Since he can't find a sedan that meets his needs, he obviously has to let the "sedan" part of the equation change. If you've run through all the choices, then you need to lok at things not on your initial list. He's obviously gotten to the point where he's frustrated, so I mentioned a few other non-small-sedans to possibly point him in other directions.

My list was purely based upon cost to own, and not on any other factors.

1 - The Celica gets a special mention as it's quick, sporty, and dirt cheap to keep running. The lack of rear doors is hardly a problem, and the fact that it's a hatchback kind of offsets that for a young buyer, since you can actually use it to haul medium sized items in a pinch.

2 - The Wrangler is a SUV. Gas mileage on it and the Tacoma is mediocre. The advantage with both though is great bad-weather performance and the ability to tow and haul items. Yes, they also make extended cab and 4 door Tacomas as well.

3 - The Crown Vic and similar cars (say a big Buick or Chevy sedan) are good because of their dirt cheap purchase price. If you can get a 2008 Crown Vic that was never used as a rental or taxi for $10K, or a 2008 Camry for $15K, that $5K buys you an immense amount of fuel. Several years worth, in fact (difference in MPG). It also ties up a lot less cash in a loan, less for registration, insurance, and yes, eventually repairs. The last time I was in the Toyota dealer (getting a part for a 80s 4Runner/rock crawler), a guy was complaining about a $4000 bill to get the transmission in his Corolla replaced.

A Crown Vic's is $1500 all day long to replace. Yes, it's big, it's heavy, and it's not sporty, but it's undeniably a car that you wont go broke driving. The Grand Marquis is the luxury model similar to say, a Cadillac or Buick, and has zero "taxi/cop car" DNA in it - it looks like a proper sedan, with alloy wheels, chrome, and a good paint job. Leather, often a sunroof, premium sound, and so on. They sold for $22-24K after rebates at the end of the year, so a 2008 for $10K is absolutely possible.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- gId=96834628

Once the 2013s come out in a few weeks, expect this to be the norm as prices will drop another year's worth.

note - The GM 4 speed units and the ones used in the Crown Vic/etc are the only automatics that I'd personally trust to buy 5 or 6 years used. Any car that I would be looking at otherwise would have most of the cost of a new transmission deducted from the price right off the top.

Everything else, it has to be a manual. Cheapskate economics 101 demands a manual transmission and low priced parts. MPG is only a factor if you're driving 20K+ miles a year.

bpizzuti · August 2012

The fact that you think chrome belongs on a proper sedan does not do your credibility any favors.

plekto · August 2012

The point with Chrome and all of that is that it doesn't get stuff thrown at you or your car keyed in most areas of town where they think a Crown Vic is a police or government car. The leather seats, premium sound, sunroof, and other amenities, plus the fact that almost all were sold to individuals makes it a better deal than a Crown Vic.

Interesting fact - less than 5% of all Crown Vics were sold to individuals and are still owned by their first owner. Good luck finding one of those. You're better off getting a Grand Marquis from a retired person.

backy · August 2012

Did you notice the title of this thread: Need Some Help Choosing a Sedan! ??

So the OP is looking for a sedan. Not a truck. Not an SUV. Not a coupe or 2-door hatch. A SEDAN. And he was clear that the kind of sedan he favors is a small one, ala 3 Series (but can't afford maintenance on that) or a Mazda3. He'd like good fuel economy. The Crown Vic is a boat and has terrible fuel economy compared to something like the Mazda3. He specifically said he's interested in the Mazda3 but is looking for alternatives to that before buying one.

Also he's looking for a reliable sedan. The Wrangler (which isn't a sedan) is NOT a reliable vehicle (cf. Consumer Reports). So why mention it? A, it isn't a sedan. B, it isn't reliable. C, it doesn't get good fuel economy and that was another requirement.

Is there any way, any way at all, you could respond to these folks looking for help in buying a car with some suggestions that actually meet their requirements, and not just your same recommendations again and again and again, no matter what the OP is looking for?

plekto · August 2012

This forum historically has been a bit of a catch-all place for people looking for advice on vehicles of all types who aren't sure exactly what they want, since a lot of the smaller specific forums have little or no traffic, and many vehicles are similar to sedan models (Fit, Matrix, most crossovers, etc). If he's run out of sedans to look at, perhaps he needs something that's not a quite a normal sedan. Rather than just say "go to the other forum", it's nicer to try to figure out the problem here if we can.

As for the Wrangler, I mentioned it only because it's super easy to keep running. It does break down more frequently, but parts cost less than half what parts on, say, a Honda do. He was asking what's cheap to keep running at the time, and that's what that list was about. Toyota trucks also made the list because you can keep one running with hand tools, duct tape, and some WD-40.

What I personally recommend, though?
I personally think a small cheap wagon or crossover might work better for his needs, but finding one with manual and a 4 cylinder engine (so MPG is acceptable) is more common these days in the rest of the world than it is here in the U.S. I think the RAV 4 is about the only one left, and luckily, second generation RAV4s are quite affordable. Is it a SUV? Well, no. It's more like a raised small sedan with AWD that has the exterior styling of a SUV tacked on. A 2005 would be a good choice. He'd probably not even pay close to $10K for it. My last Toyota still ran when I sold it with nearly 300K on it. A couple of years older isn't a factor with most of them, as long as the condition is good.

Note - the Jeep Compass and Patriot also are what I'd call sedans/wagons made up to look like a SUV as well. Get a base model Patriot with manual (nothing to break, quite literally). Avoid the CVT like the plague it is. Jeep does make good manuals and at $14K, it's the cheapest wagon/crossover/(not sure what to call it - heh) out there. The 5 year/100K mile drive-train warranty covers you for a while, which lowers your cost quite a bit. (no 5-6 year old car will be without $500 or more a year in upkeep, oil changes, tires, and so on)

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/jeep/patriot-pricing/
Note - that price includes the delivery charge, so the base price is actually just a few dollars above $14K. (Truecar and Cars Direct add this into their prices, which sometimes leads to a bit of confusion vs the other sites)

Something for him to maybe think about, since it's a pretty fun little vehicle to stomp around in due to the short gearing and light weight. It also gets 23/29mpg, which is more in the range he was looking for.

mr_gone · August 2012

Expanding a bit on plekto's position that the forum is a place to provide information on vehicles of all types because (despite their words to the contrary) the OPs DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY REALLY WANT, let me offer this piece of advice to the person seeking that narrowly defined class called "sedans."

Get a rickshaw. Really, these are super-affordable ways of getting around. Just look at Asia! The initial costs are pretty low. The only trick is finding the "fuel" as it were. Of course, outside of the U.S. market, this isn't always as much of a concern. Here, we have the nanny-state government mandating our choices, so we can't just, say, get an indentured servant to take us on our Costco runs. And even if we could, you'd probably have to get a second servant to help pull when you've got the rickshaw piled full of 24-can cases of Diet Coke, 75-lb. dog-food bags, a 72-inch TV and enough laundry detergent to last until the next summer Olympics.

But they're an established, reliable form of transportation, with a few centuries of testing to get out all the bugs (termites excepted, of course.) Now, you might think this is silly, and that's okay. There are still plenty of other choices on the market -- like a camel or an elephant or a broomstick or magic carpet or just clicking your heels three times and saying, "There's no place like home, there's no place like home." The point is to be open-minded and to be willing to listen to other people's suggestions, no matter how delusional those suggestions are!

maxx4me · August 2012

I think the Vietnam Motor Industry Corporation makes those. For clarity, you need to specify whether you are looking for two or four legged drive. :P In this case I would not want the CVT (Can't Venture Too-far) transmission.

backy · August 2012

Rather than just say "go to the other forum", it's nicer to try to figure out the problem here if we can.

Except you are not helping this person figure out his question. Your suggestions have nothing to do with his question. They have only to do with your standard list of vehicles that you recommend to anyone and everyone, even if they have no interest in those types of vehicles.

You love Jeeps and Toyota trucks and large GM and Ford sedans et. al. And they must have a stick (except of course for those large GM and Ford sedans, which have only automatics). Fine. Please consider that not everyone else in the world is looking for such a vehicle.

plekto · August 2012

What I personally like and what I recommend are entirely two different things. If I could have any new car today, it would be a Porsche Cayman, most likely. I love small fast cars. I think Honda really did a bad thing when they killed off the S2000 without a real replacement in the works. If it was ANY car, it would probably be a late 60s Skylark convertible. But those are silly money as of late.

As for the issue of what vehicle, I merely made choices based upon low cost to own and buy. If the OP has enough money for a better car, then he should of course get something like an IS300, G35, S60, GS, or other used luxury or higher performance sedan. Used luxury is often built better and lasts longer than a cheap car. And has more options and safety equipment as well, as a rule.

The problem comes when he wants something used for very little money, and most of the things he looks at he doesn't like or feels like, well, they are the overpriced econoboxes that they really are. So thinking outside the box might be his next step.

As for the OP, if he wants a normal sedan and automatic, then the IS300 is probably the best of the used crop. Nice sport sedan feel and a great engine.

beethovengirl · August 2012

Hi,

I'm seeking advice on choosing a new small car. I currently drive a 98 Corolla and am leaning toward a Prius, but I'm also considering a Corolla and a Hyundai Elantra (possibly a Civic too). My most significant considerations when buying a car are dependability and safety, and Consumer Reports scores the Prius higher on reliability than the Corolla, Elantra, Civic, etc. However, JD Power ranks the Corolla highest on initial quality. Are CR and JD Power considered reliable arbiters of vehicle reliability?

One problem for me is that I need auto on/off headlights (to which I've gotten accustomed in my 98 Corolla). However, it appears that Toyota has entirely eliminated any auto headlamps in the Corolla line! Even the Prius Two and Three do not have auto on/off headlights, just auto-off. I've emailed Toyota, and they seem to say that with the Prius Two and Three, I could have the headlight switch set to "on" permanently, and the lights will come on automatically every time we start the car (after they were turned off automatically), so I guess this is a fix, even if it's wasteful.

As for the Elantra, auto headlamps is only an option on the limited model (unless I'm mistaken and auto-off is available in lower models), which makes the Elantra almost as expensive as the Prius!

I can't justify the Prius on entirely financial considerations, as I only drive about 5k miles a year (mostly city driving), but I figure that I could still come out ahead if I have to spend less on maintenance, as it gets such high ratings for reliability (though perhaps that's b/c Prius owners may be more conscientious about maintenance?). Also, I would like to get at least 10 years out of my new car, so I guess I'm a bit concerned about the Prius battery.

I'd appreciate any advice you may have. thanks

backy · August 2012

As for the OP, if he wants a normal sedan and automatic, then the IS300 is probably the best of the used crop. Nice sport sedan feel and a great engine.

And it's a sedan! And a smallish sporty one! See, that wasn't too hard, was it?

maxx4me · August 2012

BG: as the old adage goes, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. If you like the Corolla (and I have owned many to include my Vibes), I would buy another Corolla. It is a fantastic car and should meet your 10 year minimum requirement. If you happen to need something a bit bigger for whatever reason, I'd look at the Camry. Otherwise, in the Corolla size range, don't rule out the Honda Fit, and since I'm confident in saying this: your current Corolla is still functioning just fine, wait a month or two to see what the new Nissan Versa hatchback brings us just in case you would like the versatility of a hatchback.
As a "Pontiac Corolla" owner several times over, I do feel your pain on the auto headlight issue. I love just getting in my "Corolla" and starting the car, knowing the lights will go on/off by themself. But alas, in the end, I will leave you with the same adage I began with: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Keep your current Corolla until you really feel the need to push it over a cliff. That's what is called satisfaction on money well spent.

backy · August 2012

Realize that for any car with auto-off headlights (which includes even the Elantra GLS), you could leave the headlamp switch "on" and it would then be auto-on/off. Except I think that function does take a little juice from the battery, so given how little you drive that might not be a good idea. Also many cars including the Elantra have DRLs, so you don't really need/want the headlights on all the time.

If you aren't stuck on the Corolla, Prius, or Elantra... two other new small cars with automatic headlights are the Focus SE (or Titanium), and the Forte SX (top trim, but might cost you less than the top-end Elantra). The Focus is far superior to the Corolla IMO and beats the Elantra and Prius in ride/drive, although is tighter in back than those two cars. The Focus SE sedan would cost a lot less than the Prius or the top-end Elantra. The Forte is not as nice a car as the Elantra or Prius but better than the Corolla, IMO. Reliability is decent and it's an IIHS Top Safety Pick. Another feature of the Focus and Forte is that they have hatchback variants, if you like the idea that the Prius is a hatchback. The Elantra has a hatch variant also, but as on the sedan, automatic on/off headlamps are only on the loaded model, list around $25k. Of all of those new cars, looks like the Focus would get you automatic on/off headlamps for the least bucks.

You said "new small car". Is there some reason you will not consider a slightly used car, maybe a Certified car? That way you can still have a manufacturer's warranty (for up to 10 years from date of original sale in the case of makes like Hyundai and Kia). You could then afford upscale features like auto-on headlights.

busiris · August 2012

"slightly used car"...

That was my thought also when I read the "requirements" of the poster.

I would highly suggest the poster evaluate that option.

beethovengirl · August 2012

hi backy,

thanks for your reply. I did not realize that the Elantra GLS has auto-off headlights. Where I can find this kind of info on Hyundai's website?

Where can I read more about how leaving the headlamp switch "on" might drain the battery? I drive my car several times a week, if that matters.

Do you think there's any chance the 2013 Prius might have auto on-off headlamps in the lower end models?

re: a used car, I bought my 98 Corolla used in 2003, and I had more problems with it from 2003-2006 than from 2007-present. I just don't want to deal with the uncertainty about whether the used car was properly maintained. I realize this might not make sense financially (esp since Toyota only recently dropped auto on/off headlights from the Corolla line-up), but I would prefer to pay extra for peace of mind.

maxx4me, while my 98 Corolla is running fine now, my mechanic indicated I would need some work done in the medium-term, so that's why I'm looking into buying a new car. I also would like to have the safety features available in new cars.

thanks for your advice

smalltown · August 2012

I'll be retiring in a couple of years & am thinking about a new small car--hatchback or wagon. Utility is high on the list, meaning I have to be able to put my bicycle inside. We already have a small pickup and SUV. Local dealers are D3 and Toyota. Honda and Nissan are 35-45 miles away. Everything else is at least 85 miles away. Current daily driver is MINI Cooper, but it's just too small and bouncy on backroads, that I will be trading in. Current list to look at include Ford C-Max, Hyundai Elantra GT, Kia Forte 5-door & Kia Soul. I cannot get comfortable in a Toyota Matrix.

The cars I have had include Ford Pinto stationwagon, Plymouth Horizon hatchback, Chevy Citation hatchback, Plymouth Sundance hatchback, Hyundai Accent hatchback & Kia Spectra5.

Comments? Recommendations? Price not a major factor, <$35.000. Don't need a lot of electronics.

backy · August 2012

Well, Hyundai's website isn't the only source of information on Hyundais. Owner forums are a good source of info too... as you realize since you posted your question here. This might be helpful re auto-off headlights on the Elantra:

http://www.elantraclub.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t32355.html

I don't have a link re battery drain for the auto-off feature, I just remember reading many years ago that there is a drain, albeit a small one. I think it had to do with a circuit being open in order to trigger "lights on" when the car starts again. I've owned 3 Hyundais (2 Elantras) with this feature and it's never been a problem, but then I don't leave the lights on the "on" position for a long period of time. Maybe it would be a problem if someone left the car parked for several weeks.

If you go to http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/features.html and click on the Features tab, it's easy to verify that the Prius Two and Three do NOT have auto on/off headlights but the Prius Four and Five do.

beethovengirl · August 2012

hi backy, thanks for your reply once again

just to clarify, I was asking about the upcoming 2013 Prius. I was wondering what the chances are that it might have auto on/off headlights in the Two or Three.

backy · August 2012

If it were me I'd stick with something where I know I can get local service and warranty repairs if I need them. Since it appears you don't want to consider a small SUV like the Escape or Equinox, and you want to buy new, I think your best bet of those you listed is the C-Max. Two other options, from Toyota, are the Venza (really more a Camry wagon than an SUV) and the Prius v. All fit in your under-$35k range. The Venza might be a little bigger than what you want.

If you really don't mind driving a ways to see a dealer, another small car that is great on utility and can hold a bike is the Fit. A lot of fun to drive also.

backy · August 2012

If you can't get an answer from your Toyota dealer or don't trust them for some reason, try http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html, there's a phone number and email to contact Toyota USA re questions.

beethovengirl · August 2012

I've already tried contacting Toyota, and they did not give a helpful reply: "We apologize, at this time we do not have a tentative release date for the 2013 Prius. Typically our new models are released in the Fall. We do not have information about features and specifications for this next model, and Toyota will release more information in the coming months."

mr_gone · August 2012

I was thinking of the Fit as well. And because you're already driving a Mini Cooper and it was not listed as one of the dealerships in your town, you are at least willing to drive some distance for repairs. Don't know how often you've had to do so with the Mini, but odds are that you'd have less of a need to visit the Honda dealer 35 miles away than the BMW-Mini dealer, wherever it is.

An argument for the Venza is that it no doubt will ride much better than the Fit. If the Mini's ride is too rough, the Venza would be a dramatic improvement. Much quieter, too, I'm sure. Fuel economy won't be nearly as good as the Fit, but it would be a more luxurious vehicle.

If you decide that the C-Max really is the perfect vehicle, I'd still recommend waiting a year to let them work out problems. This allegedly is no longer an issue with cars, but there seem to be cases from time to time still that show it can be -- Ford has had problems with the Escape and Honda did with the 2008 Accord, for example.

plekto · August 2012

I'd recommend a Corolla wagon, if only because of the extra versatility.

AKA a Toyota Matrix

The Corolla itself seems to be more of the same Toyota is de-contenting it a bit since it's a "budget" car in their minds and marketing. But the Matrix is quite nice inside, and gives you a great amount of storage.

plekto · August 2012

I'd also look at the Volvo C30 as well. I personally like the Volvo because it offers a ride very much like a European sedan. Tight, controlled, and yet good on highways without punishing you.

Lots of power, lots of features, and plenty of luxury bits as well. Not bad for $25K. Honestly, it is a better car than something like a Matrix or C-Max.

mr_gone · August 2012

A bike will not fit well in the C30. It's too small.

backy · August 2012

I'd consider the Matrix only as a last resort. Having driven them as rentals, they are one of the few cars I would put on my rental profile as "NO!" if I could (can't put a specific car on Hertz' profile). Actually I'd do the same with the Corolla, and Yaris if I could. Cheap interior trim, noisy, less-than-ideal driving position for starters. The only plus is there would be many used Matrices to choose from if the OP decides to go the used route.

Also it's likely the Matrix doesn't have the auto-on headlights feature that the OP really wants, since the Corolla doesn't have it.

Kirstie_H · August 2012

Also, having moved from a big city to a small, way-out-in-the-farthest-suburbs town, I can tell you that getting service on a Volvo is going to be a major undertaking.

The best advice I can give to someone living in a smaller market area is to buy something that is the most common vehicle you can live with. A Ford Focus might be a good choice (though I don't know about a bike in that). You want to be able to take the vehicle to ANY local mechanic, not just the dealership, and know that parts or knowledge won't be a major issue for regular maintenance, non-warranty, or after-warranty problems. I started out in this small town with my Infiniti G35. Very hard to find someone local who was comfortable working on it or had good knowledge of it. Replaced it with a used Ford Escape, as I noticed about 1 in every 10 people in this town seems to have one. EVERY mechanic has seen a bunch of these, so getting service is never an issue.

smalltown · August 2012

Thanks for the comments. I have never found a Toyota that fits me as a driver, except trucks. I have a 2011 Tacoma regular cab. My wife has a 2010 Honda Element. The Venza is a little bigger than I want. I am short. The problem with larger cars in general is that they have larger seats, and the seat bottom is too long, hitting the back of my knee. So driving them is tiring. As Kirstie said, getting service for a Volvo would be hard. Also, I would like four doors.

The earliest I would be buying will be next year. So I have plenty of time. A friend has the Fit. I measured the cargo space & it's about the same as the Kia Spectra5 that I bought in 2005. My son is driving that now.

backy · August 2012

There's a big difference in cargo capacity between the Fit and the Spectra5, because the Fit has a lower load floor than the Spectra5. If you've never opened up the back of a Fit with all seats down you'll be amazed how much room it has, for bikes etc.

Have you looked at the Prius v? Lots of cargo room, and great fuel economy.

sallier · August 2012

Woman in 60's who has owned everything from Audi Fox, 1978 BMW 530, 1988 Acura Legend,
(Infinity I30t - way too "lady's garden club" car for me);2003 Murano wants fun-to-drive wagon. Felt too crammed in VW Jetta Wagon, too expensiveCaddy wagon, too underpowered Acura SportWagon. Subaru doesn't fit the "fun-to-drive" quotient. Looked at Mazda C-7 which is being scrubbed; if I'm going "compact" for cargo really would prefer wagon. ANY ideas would be appreciated!!!

(From the sound of things my ideal car would probably be an Audi A6 Avent but - too expensive as upkeep probably also would be. Besides which don't think they're being imported any more!)

Kirstie_H · August 2012

We don't want to chase you off, as you're completely welcome here, but this discussion is on our Sedans board and designed for those seeking sedan-purchasing advice. There's a similar discussion on our Wagons board, so you might want to hop over there too:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eea4e16/699

sallier · August 2012

Because I had put "wagon" in title, moderator was sending me to Wagon Forums - BUT - it hasn't
had a post since Oct, 2010!!! Besides I've noted trucks & crossovers have been mentioned
in responses in this Forum. Thanks for any help I can get!

backy · August 2012

Well, our Host did say "too" at the end, so...

How about the new CX-5? Supposed to be lots of fun to drive, albeit not the quickest SUV out there, but arguably the best handling small SUV/wagon. And great fuel economy for an SUV to boot!

sallier · August 2012

Thanks, Backy, for your re Mazda CX-5. After reading C&D reveiw looks as tho acceleration pretty slow even if responsive steering/handling good. Also read review 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe looked good with
turbo-I've not driven a 4-cyl car in many a year (don;t know yet what longer wheel based, 6 cyl one would be like)

tifighter · August 2012

Sportage with the turbo?

RDX?

Not many traditional wagons left.

sallier · August 2012

Thanks, tifighter, for your suggestions tho am not sure I'm in agreement with
them. Seems to be mixed opinions on the turbo - too much heat being the issue.
Hmmm on the RDX - tho it's the new "in" thing, it felt a bit "squishy" (i.e. Lexified)
to me. Having been a previous Acura owner (1988 Legend that I liked), I wouldn't
mind owning another Acura car - if only the SportWagon had more power!

Your last sentence sums up my big problem!! (Not everybody wants a CUV/SUV)

tifighter · August 2012

the first gen RDX was anything but squishy and was not slow; maybe you can find a leftover 12 or CPO out there. Reliability for the turbo has been excellent (check consumer reports, etc.) Too early to say on the Sportage.

As far as wagons go, you looked at the CTS and TSX. There's the Outback/Venza/Crosstour class, all with available V6. The other options are the Euro wagons (Audi allroad, new BMW 3 next year, MB E, and the Volvo XC70). Bring your wallet.

sallier · August 2012

tifighter - once again thanks! It seems I'm sorely "out-of-market" - tho will
look up Crosstour & test drive 012 RDX. Maybe if I got a good enuf deal on the
latter, it can be interim. Really don't want AWD (fwd should be good enuf
for KY winters) but maybe for resale I'd better for AWD - do you have an opinion
on this? (Usually am admirer of Audi, but upkeep $ scares me!) Much appreciation to you!

tifighter · August 2012

I think 2010 and later RDX was available in FWD and AWD, so you have the option either way. The Crosstour I think offered both as well, starting with the 12 model year. Both are going to feel quicker than the base TSX.

mah52 · August 2012

I want a small, AWD sedan. I currently have a 2006 Lexus IS 250 AWD and love it, but feel silly just buying the same car again--not much has changed. So, I am looking at IS250, Infiniti G37 (would go G35, but they don't have the navigation option), Mercedes C sport sedan with 4Matic, or Acura TL. Would appreciate your thoughts.

backy · August 2012

If you don't mind saving some money, and the loss of some oomph, take a look at the Impreza (high-end trim of course).

For more bucks, there's always the 3 Series with AWD and the A4 Quattro.

sebring95 · August 2012

What are some of the things you like about a car? I assume the AWD is a must have?

The Mercedes is the closest in size to the IS but I've never been real impressed with them. Marginal performance/economy, high upkeep, etc. It seems you keep your cars for awhile so I would rule that one out.

The TL and G37 are quite a bit bigger and better performing than what you're used to. This is why I asked what you like because if performance isn't high on your list there may be some non-luxury brands that would live up to your expectations.

igozoomzoom · August 2012

I highly recommend taking a look at the 2013 Volvo S60 T5 AWD 4-door. It has excellent reviews (even Consumer Reports loves it), and it comes with 5yrs/50,000-miles of Warranty, Wear & Tear and Scheduled Maintenance Coverage standard. It also has the most comfortable seats of any car in the class...

mah52 · August 2012

Thanks for this advice, agozoomzoom. I will take a look at the Volvo you suggested.

tifighter · August 2012

Good suggestion on the Volvo.

If it were me with that list, It would be TL, S60, maybe G37. I see so many of the Germans here in the bay area that I just couldn't do it. The TL is a goofy car, but the reviews of the SH-AWD model are uniformly good, especially the manual, which would make it worth a test drive to me. Shoot, I might even test drive a Taurus SHO too, as a total wild card.

dispencer2 · August 2012

What is wrong with a Camry LE? It is well equipped and you might find a discounted one at the end of the year. It will last forever and rides well. It is comfortable on the road. You could even look for a 2011 or 12 used one and get an extended warranty. If you are going to keep the car for 10 years or more I would check the Consumer Reports dependability ratings for whatever car you decide on. There used to be a base model of the Camry under the LE. You would have to check.

backy · September 2012

What's wrong with the Camry LE? First, it's not a hatchback and the OP said she wants a hatchback. Second, it's not fun to drive with tight steering, another requirement.

For a family sedan, it's a good choice... especially the 2012+ which is an improvement over the previous generation. But not for a fun-to-drive hatchback.

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